ChiefsPlanet

ChiefsPlanet (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/index.php)
-   Nzoner's Game Room (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=1)
-   -   Chiefs The fate of Chris Jones 2023 edition (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=349477)

Bearcat 08-24-2023 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 17070769)
Logic would say you guys are right.

I'm not entirely sure the Jones camp is operating from logic right now. I mean, we saw it from Brown's camp just a few months ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 17070768)
Absolutely.

I get being frustrated. But mad at the guy? Be mad at him if he’s not playing week 1. Be mad at him if it’s week 3 and he doesn’t have a sack.

I don’t think he deserves all this vitriol yet. But that can change.

Yeah, and I totally get how things are trending towards CJ and his agent overplaying their hand and maybe even not negotiating in good faith, but even the good faith part is kind of a theory right now since there's still time for him to report.

Not a ton of time, obviously... and along with the Twitter trolling, the possibility of being benched a game or two because it's gotten to this point is bad form (earning a game check from a suite).

Beyond that.... meh. Just let it play out. We'll know soon enough if we really need the pitchforks.

FringeNC 08-24-2023 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 17070768)
Absolutely.

I get being frustrated. But mad at the guy? Be mad at him if he’s not playing week 1. Be mad at him if it’s week 3 and he doesn’t have a sack.

I don’t think he deserves all this vitriol yet. But that can change.

I don't know. I think we've already passed into the stage where CJ and his camp realize the only leverage they really have is for Chris Jones to be a disgruntled employee. All we are asking him to do is play out his last year on his contract (and be extremely well compensated) and then he can go seek the few extra mill per year the Chiefs weren't offering. That's not good enough for him, evidently.

It's clear Veach thinks his contract demands would not work well within the salary cap constraints. It shouldn't really very hard for CJ to understand. So he reports, plays this year, and leaves. It's already unlikely he'd be 100% for week 1 if he reports today.

tredadda 08-24-2023 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stryker (Post 17070433)
Sooo, this is a stupid Mexican Standoff. CJ wants similar A. Donald $$$$ that HE does not deserve. Donald gets $31 mill a year and deservingly so. CJ wants $30 mill and does NOT deserve to be in that conversation.

Multiple defensive tackles have signed massive contract extensions this offseason, including the New York Giants' Dexter Lawrence (25 yrs old) and Washington Commanders' Daron Payne (26 yrs old), who each signed four-year, $90 million extensions. The Tennessee Titans signed Jeffery Simmons (26 yrs old) to a four-year, $94 million deal and the New York Jets signed Quinnen Williams (25 yrs old) to a four-year, $96 million contract. Chris Jones will turn 30 yrs old this season. My point is that Chris Jones is joining the party too late. When he got his contract in 2020, HE was handsomely paid - today the youth above is relishing in TODAY'S market - Chris Jones is out of the 25/26 year old range asking for handsome funds. We shall see. His demands would CRUSH our salary cap like Eric Berry and Frank Clark. For me? franchise his ass for the next 2 seasons (2024 - 2025) or simply let him walk at the end of this season - He will play what 8 possibly 12 games?

Excellent take. Donald is a three time DPOY and a first ballot HOF player. Jones is good, but has only ever been a runner up and is currently not on a HOF track. I would love for Jones to stay here as he is a critical part of this defense, but if he's unwilling to without budging on his demands, then it will be best for both to part ways. Those other DTs are younger and make less than he is asking. It would be foolish to give in to Jones.

tredadda 08-24-2023 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PAChiefsGuy (Post 17070733)
I don't think they think that anymore. Honestly, I'm not sure he wants to be here anymore.

Why? Who knows but it seems like it is getting personal and doesn't have much to do w money.

That's a good point. I wonder if them cutting Clark has anything to do with this and if he would have been more open to signing what Veach offered had Frank still been here. It's obvious they were close.

O.city 08-24-2023 07:34 AM

I still think there's some optimism that they're close. There hasn't been another move announced to free up some space cap wise. They ain't rollin into the season with what they've got.

tredadda 08-24-2023 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 17070768)
Absolutely.

I get being frustrated. But mad at the guy? Be mad at him if he’s not playing week 1. Be mad at him if it’s week 3 and he doesn’t have a sack.

I don’t think he deserves all this vitriol yet. But that can change.

I'm at the point of thinking about it like he was injured and wont suit up until Week 1-8. The cost is sunk regardless and injuries are a part of it, so in my thinking KC will have to adjust to either scenario and in some ways this could actually benefit the defense as they learn to live without him.

Marcellus 08-24-2023 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghak99 (Post 17070387)
Suicide in the parking lot.

That season was already shot by then.

KCUnited 08-24-2023 07:48 AM

Even when its not about the money its always about the money but I just can't help but think this one time it might be something more. Like Frank Clark feelings, or his dad, or how red makes him look fat.

RunKC 08-24-2023 07:50 AM

Quote:

Why are Jones and the Chiefs at an impasse?

Taylor: The Chiefs are unwilling to make Jones the highest-paid player at his position. Jones, meanwhile, wants an extension that will pay him an annual salary of $30 million, making him the clear second-highest-paid defensive tackle. The Chiefs believe they have a good offer, one that would make Jones one of the highest-paid players at his position.

But Jones believes his talent and his value to the team last season — in which he produced career highs of 15 1/2 sacks and 29 quarterback hits — should make him worthy enough of his $30 million per season request. — Taylor
Don't think it's that complicated. Veach made him an offer. Probably around $27-28 million APY and Chris wants $30 million.

Andy said there's no communication. Well it sounds like Chris is willing to die on this hill and the Chiefs aren't going to budge from their offer.

mr. tegu 08-24-2023 07:53 AM

The fate of Chris Jones 2023 edition
 
No way he’s worth $30 per year. I don’t think Donald is either.

Marcellus 08-24-2023 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCUnited (Post 17070816)
Even when its not about the money its always about the money but I just can't help but think this one time it might be something more. Like Frank Clark feelings, or his dad, or how red makes him look fat.

I have to admit, his Frank Clark obsession and the comments about Clark do make you wonder if he is so butthurt they cut him he decided to be a dick about this contract.

Which again, is epically stupid.

duncan_idaho 08-24-2023 07:56 AM

Or, perhaps he saw the team would be clinical about a contract that has big non-guaranteed years at the end that aren’t guaranteed and is looking for more guarantees late in the contract. Or a shorter term.

Or something that makes sense and is protective from his end and doesn’t protect KC’s flexibility well enough.

Marcellus 08-24-2023 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. tegu (Post 17070825)
No way he’s worth $30 per year. I don’t think Donald is either.

Well Donald is the highest paid defensive player in football and the highest paid non QB on one of the worst defenses in football so he obviously isn't worth the $30MM to LA. And this contract was given to him AFTER they won the SB, sound familiar?

I mean guys we are talking about making Jones a top 2 or 3 paid player at any position outside of the top QB's. It AINT happening and it shouldn't.

tredadda 08-24-2023 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 17070808)
That season was already shot by then.

Pun intended?

Marcellus 08-24-2023 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 17070832)
Pun intended?

Fully intended.

CupidStunt 08-24-2023 08:00 AM

My take at this point is pretty simple. I want Jones back, but I think we'll end up regretting anything north of 25m - the same as the other guys got - and even that might not be sitting well in the 3rd or 4th years of the deal.

tredadda 08-24-2023 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 17070830)
Or, perhaps he saw the team would be clinical about a contract that has big non-guaranteed years at the end that aren’t guaranteed and is looking for more guarantees late in the contract. Or a shorter term.

Or something that makes sense and is protective from his end and doesn’t protect KC’s flexibility well enough.

Exactly. For a contract to work for KC they would have to lower his cap hit which means money later in the contract. But at the same time they would want flexibility in case his performance drops.

Jones is on his last big contract and would want to protect himself through guarantees as a big contract on paper but plenty of ways to prevent him from seeing a lot of it won't be in his best interest.

O.city 08-24-2023 08:12 AM

Man...did that just come out of nowhere?

Did they just come to the 30 million dollar number a couple weeks ago?

Sassy Squatch 08-24-2023 08:15 AM

Yeah, if that's accurate he can play out the year and be shipped off during the 2024 offseason.

RunKC 08-24-2023 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassy Snatch (Post 17070848)
Yeah, if that's accurate he can play out the year and be shipped off during the 2024 offseason.

His agent is a moron. If he really holds out until week 8, we get considerable cap space back and can franchise him for $24.5 million which is cheap.

Then what? Do this song and dance again and have nobody pay you what we are currently offering?

TEX 08-24-2023 08:24 AM

Can we have a new poll? Bet its much different now. I know Id change my vote.

O.city 08-24-2023 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17070856)
His agent is a moron. If he really holds out until week 8, we get considerable cap space back and can franchise him for $24.5 million which is cheap.

Then what? Do this song and dance again and have nobody pay you what we are currently offering?

It just makes no sense to do that, you give the Chiefs complete leverage.

They could then tag you for 2 years at 50 million dollars total.

IowaHawkeyeChief 08-24-2023 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17070819)
Don't think it's that complicated. Veach made him an offer. Probably around $27-28 million APY and Chris wants $30 million.

Andy said there's no communication. Well it sounds like Chris is willing to die on this hill and the Chiefs aren't going to budge from their offer.

My guess is it's all about years and guaranteed money. Chris probably wants 4 with Guaranteed around $80m and Chiefs probably want 3 with a 4th throw away year and guarantees around $65m. I don't think they are hung up on an APY, it's all about the guaranteed money.

jettio 08-24-2023 08:32 AM

So the chiefsplanet that says Tyrann Matheiu played not to get hurt when he was in the last year of his contract thinks Chris Jones would be the same guy he was if no extension gets done.

Jones wears a knee brace on his right leg when playing, maybe that is more an injury prevention thing. But if Jones play was DPOY level when he was playing for his next contract, I doubt he has the same level of play if he has to survive the year healthy to get a long term deal from another team.

BigRedChief 08-24-2023 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17070844)
Man...did that just come out of nowhere?

Did they just come to the 30 million dollar number a couple weeks ago?

Well I said I saw that number on a TV in a bar when I posted it here a couple of weeks ago while drunk. I got trashed and lectured about being trashed and posting. Since there was no confirmation, I agreed probably just me being trashed at the time.

Now I'm thinking maybe I did see something about the $30 million # even if I couldn't remember what station or reporter.

Woogieman 08-24-2023 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 17070856)
His agent is a moron. If he really holds out until week 8, we get considerable cap space back and can franchise him for $24.5 million which is cheap.

Then what? Do this song and dance again and have nobody pay you what we are currently offering?

At some point, you have to weigh his agent's advice...is this guy doing what's best for his client, or is he just a guy trying to make a splashy, home run deal as entree' into the sports agent biz? This has been such a lose-lose negotiation.

Wallcrawler 08-24-2023 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 17070768)
Absolutely.

I get being frustrated. But mad at the guy? Be mad at him if he’s not playing week 1. Be mad at him if it’s week 3 and he doesn’t have a sack.

I don’t think he deserves all this vitriol yet. But that can change.

Posting pictures of yourself sitting on your ass and drinking water captioned "We out here working" was stupid.

Playing the bitch on social media is both unprofessional and stupid. Any vitriol this idiot and his agent receive is WELL DESERVED.

Mahomes took less to get you this ****ing deal, and now you're threatening to bitch out of half of your final year on the deal because you want more money.

Even if he reports week 1, he has put an image of himself out there, of his own volition, that he's not willing to honor the contract he signed, that the best ****ing player on the planet took less money in order for him to have it.

If Jones was making 8, 10 million per season, and was vastly underpaid, maaaaybe people could see it.

This ****er is set to make 20 million dollars. He ain't getting paid in chickenfeed and the guy has already pissed away millions in fines for failing to report.

He just comes off as greedy reerun that won't honor his contract, and revels in it on social media.

Everywhere you look that posts these idiotic messages Jones has posted, the overwhelming response in the comments is trade him, move on.

It's a page right out of Honey Vadger's playbook. It worked out well for him, hope the same happens for Chris.

duncan_idaho 08-24-2023 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jettio (Post 17070869)
So the chiefsplanet that says Tyrann Matheiu played not to get hurt when he was in the last year of his contract thinks Chris Jones would be the same guy he was if no extension gets done.

Jones wears a knee brace on his right leg when playing, maybe that is more an injury prevention thing. But if Jones play was DPOY level when he was playing for his next contract, I doubt he has the same level of play if he has to survive the year healthy to get a long term deal from another team.

One side of it is playing safe and not getting hurt. The other side is that if you want to get paid like a top 5 player in the NFL, you have to, you know, play like a top 5 player in the NFL.

He's not getting a deal that rivals Donald's and is clear of the next grouping of DTs if he comes out and has a mediocre year. The only way he gets that deal is either (1) from the Chiefs, right now; (2) if he has another All-Pro, dominant season

O.city 08-24-2023 08:40 AM

What's goin on with Bosa in SF? They gonna pay him?

mr. tegu 08-24-2023 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jettio (Post 17070869)
So the chiefsplanet that says Tyrann Matheiu played not to get hurt when he was in the last year of his contract thinks Chris Jones would be the same guy he was if no extension gets done.

Jones wears a knee brace on his right leg when playing, maybe that is more an injury prevention thing. But if Jones play was DPOY level when he was playing for his next contract, I doubt he has the same level of play if he has to survive the year healthy to get a long term deal from another team.


Were the Chiefs offering Matheiu anything close to a top of pay for that position? Of course not as I don’t think they offered him anything if I recall. So he was never going to get a raise over his previous contract.

Not only is Jones likely passing up a big raise right now from the Chiefs, he passes up getting a big raise from anyone if he doesn’t perform well again this season. I maintain that if he has any hope of $30 per year he has to repeat of not outdo what he did last season. Anything short of it, and he is back to where he is right now with the Chiefs, and potentially lower if he sits out or under performs.

Marcellus 08-24-2023 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17070893)
What's goin on with Bosa in SF? They gonna pay him?

Yea, its his 2nd deal he is still young.

O.city 08-24-2023 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 17070905)
Yea, its his 2nd deal he is still young.

Well, word is he wants 32-33 mil a year. So

Mecca 08-24-2023 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler (Post 17070878)
Posting pictures of yourself sitting on your ass and drinking water captioned "We out here working" was stupid.

Playing the bitch on social media is both unprofessional and stupid. Any vitriol this idiot and his agent receive is WELL DESERVED.

Mahomes took less to get you this ****ing deal, and now you're threatening to bitch out of half of it because you want more money.

Even if he reports week 1, he has put an image of himself out there, of his own volition, that he's not willing to honor the contract he signed, that the best ****ing player on the planet took less money in order for him to have it.

If Jones was making 8, 10 million per season, and was vastly underpaid, maaaaybe people could see it.

This ****er is set to make 20 million dollars. He ain't getting paid in chickenfeed and the guy has already pissed away millions in fines for failing to report.

He just comes off as greedy reerun that won't honor his contract, and revels in it on social media.

Everywhere you look that posts these idiotic messages Jones has posted, the overwhelming response in the comments is trade him, move on.

It's a page right put of Honey Vadger's playbook. It worked out well for him, hope the same happens for Chris.

What do you expect?

He has 2 rings and no matter how much less Mahomes took Mahomes career earnings are going to make Chris Jones look like a peon. The vast majority of players entire attitude is "get mine"

Wallcrawler 08-24-2023 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 17070912)
What do you expect?

He has 2 rings and no matter how much less Mahomes took Mahomes career earnings are going to make Chris Jones look like a peon. The vast majority of players entire attitude is "get mine"

Then get it elsewhere, AFTER you keep your word on the deal you happily signed the dotted line on.

suzzer99 08-24-2023 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 17070912)
What do you expect?

He has 2 rings and no matter how much less Mahomes took Mahomes career earnings are going to make Chris Jones look like a peon. The vast majority of players entire attitude is "get mine"

Plus Mahomes is the son of a 12-year MLB vet. His family probably isn't hurting for money. Jones is from a small town in Mississippi. He may have tons of mouths to feed.

Mecca 08-24-2023 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wallcrawler (Post 17070915)
Then get it elsewhere, AFTER you keep your word on the deal you happily signed the dotted line on.

He's going to use every bit of leverage he has because that's just what it is.

Do I logically think the Chiefs can pay him what he wants, no, but he doesn't care about that.

Rainbarrel 08-24-2023 09:01 AM

A wildcard SB win would be a nice addition to the Mahomes awards collection.

Wallcrawler 08-24-2023 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 17070921)
He's going to use every bit of leverage he has because that's just what it is.

Do I logically think the Chiefs can pay him what he wants, no, but he doesn't care about that.

Get your 3rd ring, honor your word, boost your HoF bid, and try to finish the trip to canton chasing the biggest bag you can get.

But ****ing the team over on a great chance to repeat, when you're not being paid chickenfeed, and acting the reerun on social media, that's unnecessary.

warpaint* 08-24-2023 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 17070921)
He's going to use every bit of leverage he has because that's just what it is.

Do I logically think the Chiefs can pay him what he wants, no, but he doesn't care about that.

It's a fool's errand. He'll never make up what he accrues in fines in the next contract be it here or elsewhere.

And no doubt you're right that he's doesn't care b/c pragmatic thinking ain't driving the bus rn.

Mecca 08-24-2023 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warpaint* (Post 17070937)
It's a fool's errand. He'll never make up what he accrues in fines in the next contract be it here or elsewhere.

And no doubt you're right that he's doesn't care b/c pragmatic thinking ain't driving the bus rn.

Which is why the odds of him actually missing real games isn't very high.

I'm pretty sure this is all dog and pony, trying to scare the Chiefs into paying him at best and at worst he basically is making it where he doesn't have to worry about a franchise tag.

duncan_idaho 08-24-2023 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warpaint* (Post 17070937)
It's a fool's errand. He'll never make up what he accrues in fines in the next contract be it here or elsewhere.

And no doubt you're right that he's doesn't care b/c pragmatic thinking ain't driving the bus rn.

Depends on how high the fines get.

Right now, the fines he has accrued? He probably can make that up.

If he misses several games? No, probably not.

RaidersOftheCellar 08-24-2023 09:24 AM

I'd like to keep Jones, but it probably isn't worth 30+ mil/year. Everyone freaked about life after Tyreek Hill, and the offense got MORE efficient without him. Losing one player, even a really good one, isn't going to cripple this team.

I heard Orlovsky claim that the Chiefs will miss the playoffs if they don't have Jones for the first 7 weeks. What a load of crap. LMAO

KC's 5-2 in games in which Jones didn't play (not including the Matt Moore loss to Green Bay), with several impressive wins. I'm pretty sure they could survive less than half a season w/out him if it came to it.

I'm also confident that Veach can field a solid DL in '24, with or without Jones. If he has to attack it like he attacked the OL two years ago, so be it.

Spott 08-24-2023 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rainbarrel (Post 17070928)
A wildcard SB win would be a nice addition to the Mahomes awards collection.

Although I've loved having all of our playoff games at home since our last road contest in 2015 and hope it stays that way, it would be pretty cool to see Mahomes win a playoff game on the road.

O.city 08-24-2023 10:11 AM

Breer talked about it in his mailbag.

We’ve outlined the issue already. My sense has been for a while now that Jones wants a deal in the Aaron Donald neighborhood—which was, and remains, an outlier deal held against the rest of the market—and the Chiefs want to pay him along the lines of what Quinnen Williams and Jeffery Simmons got in extensions earlier this summer. It’s not unlike when Calvin Johnson Jr., nearly a decade ago, had an outlier receiver deal that made it difficult for guys like Dez Bryant and Demaryius Thomas to find middle ground with their teams.

In those cases, the sides wound up splitting the difference. Johnson was at $16 million per. The next receiver was around $12 million. Those two got around $14 million. Could such a compromise work in this case, say, around $27 million or $28 million per year? I’d think so, but there’s no indication, that I’ve gotten at least, that there’s been a whole lot of budging of late. Which means everyone is playing the waiting game.

I'm wondering if they end up at 27ish in the next couple days here.

Marcellus 08-24-2023 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17070910)
Well, word is he wants 32-33 mil a year. So

18.5 sacks last year.

43 sacks in 51 career games.

25 years old.

You comprehend now?

T-post Tom 08-24-2023 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjchieffan (Post 17070340)
I wish that the Chiefs would do something to shore up the interior of the line now that it appears that Jones will carry his holdout into the season. Like maybe signing Suh. That would help a lot. I know that the cap is tight, but there are restructures available. About $5M could be freed up by converting Justin Reids salary to signing bonus. And the bank of Mahomes is also an option. They did it once this year for about $10M. But there's still another $20M available if they want it. Plus, every week that Jones sits out will free up $1.1M. That money can help sign someone later or carry over to next year.

There will be good d-linemen available after roster cuts. I’m sure BV and Company have a board of potentially available players. Also, I heard on the radio this morning that Mahomes, Reid and Kelce all have cost prohibitive bonuses that go into effect if there is a contract restructure.

Mecca 08-24-2023 10:22 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I called in a favor and got Chris Jones <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@PFF</a> WAR for his career. ~ 0.3 is v good for a DT, so last year he was absurd. Aaron Donald is often ~ 1 WAR, for reference. Each WAR is worth about $50-60m APY.<br><br>He wants to be paid for the peak and the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> want to pay the middle. <a href="https://t.co/8KO6N2hxAw">pic.twitter.com/8KO6N2hxAw</a></p>&mdash; Eric Eager ���� (@ericeager_) <a href="https://twitter.com/ericeager_/status/1686928580394078208?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 3, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

PAChiefsGuy 08-24-2023 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 17070912)
What do you expect?

He has 2 rings and no matter how much less Mahomes took Mahomes career earnings are going to make Chris Jones look like a peon. The vast majority of players entire attitude is "get mine"

Well he isn't going to be doing a very good job of getting his if those fines keep piling up and then he sits out half the season.

It might be best if both parties move on. Seems like it is getting personal and we all saw how things went w HB his last season here.

Hopefully I'm wrong

Sassy Squatch 08-24-2023 10:37 AM

LMAO Holy shit, no wonder PFF makes that inaccessible. It's ****ing worthless.

2018: 74 pressures, 16 sacks, 14 hits, and 44 hurries.
2022: 77 pressures, 15 sacks, 12 hits, and 50 hurries.

2018: 90.4 overall rating, 72.1 run defense rating, 91.2 pass rush rating
2022: 92 overall rating, 78 run defense rating, 92.2 pass rush rating

Despite being nearly identical in all facets available on their website, somehow his WAR is .22 higher in 2022. Just an absolutely worthless metric.

O.city 08-24-2023 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 17071079)
18.5 sacks last year.

43 sacks in 51 career games.

25 years old.

You comprehend now?

Sure. Easy deal, no problem

Balto 08-24-2023 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassy Snatch (Post 17071145)
LMAO Holy shit, no wonder PFF makes that inaccessible. It's ****ing worthless.

2018: 74 pressures, 16 sacks, 14 hits, and 44 hurries.
2022: 77 pressures, 15 sacks, 12 hits, and 50 hurries.

2018: 90.4 overall rating, 72.1 run defense rating, 91.2 pass rush rating
2022: 92 overall rating, 78 run defense rating, 92.2 pass rush rating

Despite being nearly identical in all facets available on their website, somehow his WAR is .22 higher in 2022. Just an absolutely worthless metric.

No idea but I'd guess it has something to do with how well all the other players did that year thus in 2018 Jones had higher WAR players around him than in 2022 so him having a higher WAR in 2022 means more wins because the lack of other players being able to step up if Jones didn't play.

Sassy Squatch 08-24-2023 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balto (Post 17071210)
No idea but I'd guess it has something to do with how well all the other players did that year thus in 2018 Jones had higher WAR players around him than in 2022 so him having a higher WAR in 2022 means more wins because the lack of other players being able to step up if Jones didn't play.

LMAO Read what you just posted. Now think about it a bit. No. It's just a worthless metric.

tredadda 08-24-2023 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 17071079)
18.5 sacks last year.

43 sacks in 51 career games.

25 years old.

You comprehend now?

Oh and he is also the reigning DPOY.

dtrain 08-24-2023 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simply Red (Post 17070773)
No, what?

I don't know that's what I was asking.

suzzer99 08-24-2023 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 17070969)
Depends on how high the fines get.

Right now, the fines he has accrued? He probably can make that up.

If he misses several games? No, probably not.

It's also unclear if the fines for missing preseason games are waivable or not. We know the daily fines for missing camp are. But I've never heard anyone confirm that the fines for missing preseason games can't be waived.

LagunaSWana 08-24-2023 01:03 PM

I was listening to 810 this morning and they were saying that Jones holding out will drastically affect his FT number next year. If he waits until week 8, next year's FT would be around $23M, but if he plays the full season, his FT next year will be around $33M. I guess it's because him holding out changes his cap, and that is a factor in how the FT number is calculated.

So if he plays and gets tagged next year, and he plays next year he makes $53M over those two seasons. If he sits out until week 8, he only makes $36M. Sure makes sitting out look like a foolish strategy.

Sassy Squatch 08-24-2023 01:06 PM

Yeah, if he holds out until week 8 I honestly wouldn't be shocked if we just tagged him and let him sit again in 2024. The new CBA pretty much cripples the viability of any long term holdouts.

jettio 08-24-2023 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. tegu (Post 17070896)
Were the Chiefs offering Matheiu anything close to a top of pay for that position? Of course not as I don’t think they offered him anything if I recall. So he was never going to get a raise over his previous contract.

Not only is Jones likely passing up a big raise right now from the Chiefs, he passes up getting a big raise from anyone if he doesn’t perform well again this season. I maintain that if he has any hope of $30 per year he has to repeat of not outdo what he did last season. Anything short of it, and he is back to where he is right now with the Chiefs, and potentially lower if he sits out or under performs.

When Terez Paylor said contract year is undefeated, part of the wisdom of the quote is that a motivated player is going to pull out all the stops to have a career year and earn the next deal.

The idea that a veteran player like Chris Jones is going to have another salary drive year to help the Chiefs so that he gets the deal he wants but the Chiefs are not giving so far seems overly hopeful.

Maybe Jones thinks he has already earned the deal he wants and another team will give it to him no matter if he chooses to be a malcontent play not to get hurt guy this year if he does not get a new deal.

I am impressed that neither side has played the leak the numbers game, so maybe there is hope.

ptlyon 08-24-2023 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 17071252)
Oh and he is also the reigning DPOY.

That and $4 will get him a cup of coffee at Starbucks

BWillie 08-24-2023 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwistedChief (Post 17070740)
I still don’t think he’s missing any games and we’ll see him report within the next week.

It makes too much sense for him.

Chris Jones is bluffing with the bricked nut flush draw (generally one of the worst hand to bluff river with) and the Chief are snap hero calling him with air.

BWillie 08-24-2023 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassy Snatch (Post 17071567)
Yeah, if he holds out until week 8 I honestly wouldn't be shocked if we just tagged him and let him sit again in 2024. The new CBA pretty much cripples the viability of any long term holdouts.

He must have OBJ's agent if he does that.

PHOG 08-24-2023 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BWillie (Post 17071643)
He must have OBJ's agent if he does that.

This. I've been wondering where INF he got this clown of an agent?

FloridaMan88 08-24-2023 02:55 PM

I'd be curious to know what type of comunication was going on between Veach and Chris Jones/his agent during the offseason before this holdout began.

If Chris Jones was demanding this Aaron Donald value all along, then it is unclear how or why Veach thought they could negotiate CJ off that #.

Red Dawg 08-24-2023 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 (Post 17071812)
I'd be curious to know what type of comunication was going on between Veach and Chris Jones/his agent during the offseason before this holdout began.

If Chris Jones was demanding this Aaron Donald value all along, then it is unclear how or why Veach thought they could negotiate CJ off that #.

Veach may have underestimated him holding out. He probably thought he would still show up and honor his contract, not miss out on like 10 mil.

Marcellus 08-24-2023 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88 (Post 17071812)
I'd be curious to know what type of comunication was going on between Veach and Chris Jones/his agent during the offseason before this holdout began.

If Chris Jones was demanding this Aaron Donald value all along, then it is unclear how or why Veach thought they could negotiate CJ off that #.

Just a theory but it sounds like the Chief's made an offer, Jones camp made a counter offer, and KC said X is the last offer and its been crickets since.

Marcellus 08-24-2023 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Dawg (Post 17071827)
Veach may have underestimated him holding out. He probably thought he would still show up and honor his contract, not miss out on like 10 mil.

Well anyone with half a brain wouldn't be willing to give up $10MM to make a point when doing that will likely end in a net loss.

PAChiefsGuy 08-24-2023 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 17071829)
Just a theory but it sounds like the Chief's made an offer, Jones camp made a counter offer, and KC said X is the last offer and its been crickets since.

That sounds about right.

In Reid's last press conference he said he hasn't talked to Chris, tere's nothing he can do on his end to make the situation end, and that there needs to be better communication on both sides (Veach and CJ). So it sounds they aren't talking at all right now. Not good.

Dante84 08-24-2023 03:48 PM

Seth Keysor's take on things:

Spoiler!

Megatron96 08-24-2023 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante84 (Post 17071907)
Seth Keysor's take on things:

Spoiler!



Mostly concur. I only have issue with the bit about being able to win another SB without CJ. i think it's very likely his prolonged absence would be the straw-camel.


thx for posting.

Dante84 08-24-2023 04:12 PM

The in-season hold out costing him $18-20MM really stood out to me.

It's malpractice if his agent actually has him do that.

Rasputin 08-24-2023 04:28 PM

Hmm apparently Mahomes is 6 wins 2 losses without Chris Jones in 8 games

Monticore 08-24-2023 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHOG (Post 17071681)
This. I've been wondering where INF he got this clown of an agent?

I think his agent is small time, not a big list of big name guys so he is going to use Chris to boost his name to hopefully get more clients.

Simply Red 08-25-2023 08:12 AM

Updates?

PHOG 08-25-2023 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monticore (Post 17072118)
I think his agent is small time, not a big list of big name guys so he is going to use Chris to boost his name to hopefully get more clients.

And CJ95 isn't aware of this? :hmmm:

ptlyon 08-25-2023 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monticore (Post 17072118)
I think his agent is small time, not a big list of big name guys so he is going to use Chris to boost his name to hopefully get more clients.

Picking a bad way to do it

TribalElder 08-25-2023 03:13 PM

Thinking back since Veach took over has any player who "complains" about their contract or pushes to get paid actually get a new contract?

Honey Badger - nope
Tyreek Hill - nope
Chris Jones - ????

There are probably others that I'm overlooking. Seems like last time it was the last year of CJ's contract he showed up for camp did the things and then got a contract. This time not so much

Dante84 08-25-2023 03:34 PM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">According to Carmen DeFalco, the Chicago Bears seem very interested in Chris Jones. “Some pretty connected people around the NFL are hearing that the Bears have indeed called Kansas City to inquire.”</p>&mdash; Mackenzie Webb (@kenziewebbsport) <a href="https://twitter.com/kenziewebbsport/status/1695183927424553043?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 25, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

DJ's left nut 08-25-2023 03:41 PM

Gervon Dexter and a 1st in 2024?

We're getting to the point where I think we'd have to make that deal. I'd hate it, but Dexter's a 2nd rounder and the 1st is effectively worth a 2nd.

So a pair of 2nds for Jones? Eh, it's a hair light, but man, think of what that $20 million in rollover does for the cap situation next season. And Dexter might be able to contribute this season. Wormley won't be ready until October at the earliest but maybe Ioannidis can help out quickly. Hicks might have some gas left in the tank.

I dunno - there are ways to mitigate the damage for 2023 and ways to really catapult ourselves forward in 2024 and beyond.

Man, I HATE that it's come to this. I want him here long-term. This is a guy you want to see as a career Chiefs. But he's just gotta pull his head from his ass.

O.city 08-25-2023 03:45 PM

Yeah I hate it

I’ve been adamant that it’s too late to trade him this year but if he’s adamant on sitting, do it and move on.

DRM08 08-25-2023 03:50 PM

Wow, so an 8-game holdout would drop his franchise tag number by a huge amount next year. That's hilarious. Part of me is hoping he is stupid enough to go that route.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:48 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.