High potential there. Most sources think he's a RT only though. Not sure if I agree with that or not.

The thing is, is he "ready enough now" or not... If the answer is "no," then do you take that player in the top 40 picks or do you wait until the bottom of 2 and take a guy like Amedgajie who might have an even higher ceiling but is a little less "ready now."

My feeling is that Morgan is ready now but there is the very real question of whether he'll hold up outside with his length. Just because others have doesn't mean he will. So, I totally understand the concern.

If you feel like Suamataia can 1) hold up on the left side (I'm not sure about his feet myself, so I'll say that) and 2) is capable of starting now, then go for it.

I mean the overwhelming majority of people have that identical top 4. It's pretty much a consensus. The debate comes at WR5.

I agree!

If Jackson-Powers Johnson falls are we interested in a top IOL? Chop Robinson as a top Pass Rusher? How about Koolaid McKinstry at CB?

...I'm starting to feel like we go BPA @ OL, DL, or CB in the first and seek a WR like Baker or Walker at the bottom of the 2nd

I think the top 3, however you do it, is chalk.


Nabers
Harrison Jr
Odunze

After that there have been people here arguing for guys like Franklin and Worthy over a Brian Thomas Jr or a Adonai Mitchell.

Maybe the consensus everywhere else but for some reason (was it those KC Sports Network guys) there has been a very different view among KC fans.

I was called crazy for listing those 5 a while back as my 1st round WR's.

The one guy getting lost in this class is Xavier Weaver from Colorado. He isn't in some top-200 lists. I've been so very guilty of forgetting about him. Just went back to his tape and highlights a bit. If I'm a betting man, this kid is going before the end of the 3rd round and he's going to be a steal.

He's going to be on the Chiefs radar with that speed, I guarantee it.

Got there ahead of me! I saw Steve Smith's breakdown and some highlights and thought he looked like an interesting late-round option if we double dip. Not sure I'd want him before the 4th but he is savvy from the little I've seen.

Agree on both counts

This draft is just incredibly intriguing. I think you can get a guy that contributes well to your offense at WR very late in this draft, so unless you're double dipping at WR do you really want to pick one in the first?

It's BPA vs depth of draft like it is every year, but the depth this year just makes this fascinating.

Why is AD Mitchell ranked over X Legette?

...Similar stats over last 3 years, both a size and speed guys, both have questions, I feel like Legette has more home run playmaking potential.

Crucify me.

Similar stats!? No.
. Legette did nothing for 4 years.

It's closer than you think...

Mitchell, 6-4, 195, 4.35
Last Season: 845, 15.4, 11 TDs
Last 3 Seasons: 1,405 & 17 TDS

Legette, 6-1, 225, 4.39
Last Season: 1,255, 17.7, 7 TDs
Last 3 Seasons: 1,485 & 11 TDs

They are both late 1st early 2nd round WRs, if you were only looking at last season's stats you might have XL above him considering run rate.

I'd say that Legette's weird production, age, and playing for a lesser program is what sets him back but I still think he showed more big-playmaking ability.

What are the on-field differences?

Heard some interesting comps for Thomas Jr on PFF podcast = MVS and/or D Robinson, both former Chiefs WRs.

Are we certain he'll be the #4 WR off the board?

One of these is a Junior and one is a COVID year extension Senior. So, I think that production argument carries some hard qualifiers.

Really hope Veach drafts a real WR this time and not just an athletic project that needs to learn how to be a WR. Kinda done with those.

The fact that Legette had like 200 yards total the previous two years and is what, two years older doesn't matter to you?

I don't think so. While he is buttery fluid for his size and has serious speed, he is a body catcher with drop issues who benefited from having Daniels as his QB, who gave him consistently on-target throws. Some NFL team will think that they can fix all that - but if LSU couldn't in three years? That's a top flight coaching staff at the collegiate level.

I think J Burton and D Walker fit the Chiefs mold the most, who do you think? Premium route-runners, deep threats, later 2nd rounders.

We never go after big/tall jump ball guys, McConkey's a great route runner but is he a deep threat?

I think we go BPA in the 1st, move up again for a WR in the 2nd.

Athlete types that might bust in my mind = WR Legette, TE Johnson, RB Guerendo

I still think Franklin could/should be our guy. If he's with Andy and Pat I don't think he can fail. Would be great in an offense where he doesn't need to be #1, just another weapon. Been thinking about that gauntlet drill, where he was winding all over the line and lots of people knocked him for that... but aren't WR's supposed to go to the ball? ...Is it possible he's been coached to step into the catch? Or just not run the gauntlet before, feels like folks are doubting him a bit but I could imagine him being the guy that breaks out a bit his rookie year as long as he's in the right offense.

I'm under the impression any WR the Lions, 49'ers or Chiefs take in the first 2 rounds will end up being solid due to the offense they're in.

Sometimes you gotta go with the hot hand! 1,255 yards isn't something to dismiss IMO. Kids on roll!

I'm with you.

Want a real WR that already knows how to play football and is not going to be a gimmick or a Nagy gadget dream.


Projects are fine late in the draft. Not with a 1st or 2nd round pick.

It could be easily said that Legette with the OC change and the extra year could have turned a light on for him. He is no doubt a traits over production type of player going into the draft though. But with ADM one could potentially say he fits in the same traits over production type as well.

Here's another one... Why is B Rice Jr a better prospect than his teammate Tahj Washington? Washingtons stats are better, Rice's bigger.

Washington doesn't have elite speed and is seen as a slot-only guy. If he was either faster or could play effectively outside, he'd probably be higher than Rice.

Both Legette and Mitchell has some obfuscating context that makes it hard to get a confidently reliable read on how much of their potential they can meet.

Legette is physically a little more imposing/thicker, and his top gear seens a bit higher. He pops off the screen physically.

But both are elite athletes with profiles you get excited about.

Mitchell has played in bad offenses (Georgia) that don't throw the ball, and in a pass-friendly offense with a lot of other talent (Texas) and a QB who doesn't throw great deep balls or with good anticipation.

Legette was a converted HS-QB who also has dealt with a car or motorcyle accident setting that interrupted a year, and played only his last 2 seasons with a coach who could design a competent offense and had a competent QB under center.

I think you can find enough to explain lack of production for each player, without doing any gymnastics mentally.

One of the things that doesn't get talked about as much as it should is drops. Both players have very few drops, I think sub 7% is where you want a receiver to be. Anything over that is kind of a red flag IMHO. By the time the draft rolls around, I think you either know how to catch a ball or you don't. Either you have the mental focus and discipline to catch the ball or you don't. Have we ever seen a brick hands receiver in college suddenly become reliable in the NFL?

Both are under 5%, and AM has under 2%. If I was choosing between the two, I'd take Legette, just because I think his ceiling is higher. Dude looks like he could be an absolute beast if he continues to develop.

• Johnny Wilson: 16.1%
• Javon Baker: 10.6%
• Devontez Walker: 8.5%
• Troy Franklin: 7.3%
• Keon Coleman: 7.2%
• Marvin Harrison Jr: 6.9%
• Ladd McConkey: 6.3%
• Xavier Worthy: 5.4%
• Malik Nabers: 4.9%
• Xavier Legette: 4.8%
• Rome Odunze: 4.8%
• Ja’Lynn Polk: 4.8%
• Brian Thomas Jr: 3.8%
• Adonai Mitchell: 1.7%

Last season numbers or career? Jermaine Burton was 0.0% last season.

BTR, Harrison Jr, Burton and Franklin lead the pack on highest efficiency by depth of target. ADM and Worthy are near the bottom. Combined with drop #'s make BTR and Burton impressive IMO. BTR and Harrison Jr. we likely won't have a chance on. Franklin, Burton, Legette, maybe so.

Team's need slot guys too! Why do we value outside WRs more?

Because in our scheme, everyone moves around every snap. There's no slot guy; anyone could be. Or outside.

Fair point.

But that's us, how about the league... he's ranked higher than his teammate that has better stats.

I think last year. Franklin was like 3.1% in 2022.

I don’t know if we value them more, but right now we don’t have any. And last season all we had were slot guys.

You guys have a better handle on exactly who more than I. Was way too busy this past year to watch college ball, so I'm pretty much out of the loop.

But yeah, prototypical NFL stature guys that can run good/great routes, have deep speed, high football acumen/passion would be a nice change of pace.


In terms of physique, I like Brenden Rice. And he has enough speed for the NFL. And he's a good (maybe great) route runner. Guys in that mold.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Would be a nice outcome for Worthy <a href="https://t.co/PPjpmQKgGE">pic.twitter.com/PPjpmQKgGE</a></p>&mdash; Football Insights 📊 (@fball_insights) <a href="https://twitter.com/fball_insights/status/1774616456577077450?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 1, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I don't see it at all.


Very different players.

Surprised at who is last

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Career YAC Per Reception after removing screens, 2024 pass catchers <a href="https://t.co/Mgn4JUNHBp">pic.twitter.com/Mgn4JUNHBp</a></p>&mdash; Football Insights �� (@fball_insights) <a href="https://twitter.com/fball_insights/status/1774885724757618766?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 1, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I don't know why you'd be surprised. He's shown little to no YAC ability.

That's why I think Brett Kollman's Lamb comparison is odd.

Not really surprising.

Nice stats, thank you for sharing!

Just further proof that Worthy screams Chiefs WR type.

Like staylor26 said, WORTHY! Reid/Veach get this player! Build the offense!

I'm coming around. M. Worthy, X. Worthy, and bring back M. Hardman to keep fresh legs on the field.

I just can't shake the fear that Worthy would be another Hardman. Time to try something new.

I still think Franklin might present the best available combination of deep threat and YAC. Worthy got a lot of screens, I'm not sure his YAC was quite as diverse as others.

Then watch him play.

Even as 20-year-old college Jr Worthy shows better route-running and ball-tracking than Hardman does after five years of NfL development.

They’re both smaller, really fast guys. That’s it as far as similarities.

Ok, wait a minute... Javon Baker averaged 21.9 yards per catch!? Why isn't he our guy?

He was here on a private visit last week. I think there is a very high chance that the Chiefs pull the trigger on him in the second round.

After reading about him, I’ve seen some people say that he reminds them of a more technically polished version of Juju Smith-Schuster.

FWIW to me I think a good pro comp for Javon Baker is Jayden Reed

I'd be much more surprised if he weren't near last.

Running routes better than Mecole is a low bar.


I would place Worthy 3rd on Texas at route running, behind both Adonai Mitchell (who weighs 40 lbs more) and Ja'Tavion Sanders who weighs 80 lbs more.

Worthy is better than both of those guys at running routes by a country ****ing mile.

Sanders is a better route runner than Worthy now?

LMAO

I hope you realize that it makes it hard for people to take you seriously when you're this hyperbolic in an attempt to shit on a player you don't like.

If someone has a different opinion than you they should not be "taken seriously"?


Good argument.

Worthy would be another KC WR pick that has one + NFL trait and hoping it works.


I prefer players that have more than 1 + trait in combination.

The more I dive in, the more I like Worthy over Mitchell. Teams seemed more scared or Worthy bc of his speed.

Mitchell also seems lazy (as proven on tape), doesn’t play up to his speed and as already referenced is terrible getting YAC (a staple in Andy's offense).

I'm hoping another NFL team takes the Worthy possibility off the board for us.

Like when NFL teams took Ruggs and Reagor over Justin Jefferson.

I'm still holding out hope Thomas Jr. somehow falls into the early 20s and we go up and get him...as much as I love Worthy that's my dream scenario.

He would be ****ing electric in this offense...

You're underselling Worthy as a route runner and overselling Mitchell.

You seem to think Worthy is Hardman 2.0; he's not.

BTW, Hardman's issue wasn't that he couldn't run a route. He was always a terrible ball tracker. I made that argument 2-3 years ago.

Agreed, i'd rather have Thomas Jr. than Worthy. Just hard to imagine the Chiefs trading up for a WR.

No, I expect Worthy will have more of a Gabe Davis impact.

He'll be paid and he'll have a use somewhere but after scoring 2 TD's in a game will disappear for several more.

Just because someone isn't terrible at route running doesn't mean its a plus.

If you truly believe Worthy is a great route runner and has elite speed call your shot.

Xavier Worthy will be better than:

Zay Flowers
Jordan Addison


Go ahead and tell me which of these guys Worthy will be definitely better than.

When looking at players i always looks for their "Super Power".

Worthy has one. And his other skills aren't nearly as lacking as you're making them out to be.

What's Mitchell's super power? Maybe the consistency of his hands? What's the one thing that makes you go, "Damn, defenses have to account for that ability"?

He's fast enough, sure. But he's not blowing by DB's on the field. He's not a jump ball guy. He's not particularly adept at catching in traffic....He's not a YAC guy....He's not really strong at the catch point...

I mean, seriously, what's his super power?

He has multiple + NFL traits while Worthy has one.

Speed
Size
Hands
Route Running

All+.

I didn't say he was an elite route runner, but he's a perfectly capable route runner. He's not as stiff as i originally thought. He has good quickness in and out of his breaks and he has more shiftyness than i gave him credit for early on. He has game changing speed, which changes the way defenses have to play coverages and he's an ideal compliment to Rice/Kelce. Him and Brown acting as vertical threats that are ACTUAL threats downfield, unlike MVS and Hardman, who couldn't locate a downfield ball very well.

As far as comparing him to Zay or Addison:

I was a big Zay Flowers guy last year. He was my favorite of the 1st round WR's when a lot of people were telling me he wasn't big enough or that Hyatt was the better pick.

Will Worthy be better than Flowers? Idk, they're different guys. Very different.

The elite vertical difference makers have elite speed combined with elite route running.

That's not Worthy.


Rather have Hollywood and he's already on our team.

These are measurables more than traits.

His speed tested well, yet he has no YAC and there's very little evidence of his speed stressing DB's.

Hands look reliable, but there's no evidence that he posses the ability to win in difficult, contested situations. (Also an issue for Worthy, as he rarely wins in these situations as well)

He's 6-2, sure, but he doesn't play big or strong. So im not sure his size means much.

Every time i put him on i want to see something "special", and there just isn't a lot of special things happening when he's thrown the ball.

So again, WTF is it that he's GREAT at?

I guess we'll just never agree on this. I think you're underselling Worthy's ability to run a route.

Why do you think some actual NFL scouts and GM types like Adonai better than Worthy?

They aren't seeing the game film correctly?

Idk, preferences?

Why did the Chargers take Johnston over Flowers? It made no sense at the time and it fleshed out exactly as i thought it would. /Shrug

Some scouts think like you, some scouts think like me.

You also said you don't highly value route running in draft prospects or think it can be taught in the NFL so we will like different players at WR.

Former scout Daniel Jeremiah WR rankings not too different than what I posted a long time ago.


25. Adonai Mitchell

34. Ladd McConkkey

41. Xavier Worthy

https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jere...t-rankings-3-0

That would be mostly correct. So long as you have the physical ability, route running can be taught. Mostly, i look for "wow factor", aka, Super Powers.

Brian Thomas Jr, Malik Naber, Marvin Harrison Jr., Odunze...they check all the boxes imo in terms of wow factor. Size, speed, contested catch ability, knack for making high degree of difficulty catches....those guys are the full package imo.

Worthy and Leggette both pop out to me with some "Wow" ability. Not full package players, but guys with traits that will make them a handful; that a team can build on.

Im leaving others out im sure but...you get the idea.

No, not becuase you have a "different opinion". Read what I said again.

It's your blatant hyperbole, that I don't think you honestly believe.

Saying Mitchell is a better route runner is a "different opinion". Saying Sanders is a better route runner is just nonsense. If you honestly believe that, it says a lot about your football knowledge. I'm actually trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here.

You also said I was crazy for not worshipping Troy Franklin and that my view that he doesn't get to top speed fast was "made up".


Maybe you are the one that needs to work on hyperbole.


LMAO

No, you claimed that he didn't play as fast as he timed, which didn't make any sense considering we didn't even have a time.

It turns out it is precisely the opposite of that, hence why everybody was surprised/disappointed by his 40.

I mentioned over and over and over that he was a long strider and took a while to get to to top speed on tape and you dismissed it as crazy.

The combine confirmed I was right.

No, that was your argument after moving the goalposts, which I didn't push back on nearly as hard.

Your original argument was 100% that he didn't play as fast as he timed.

LMAO


Just take the L.

Here we go:

Yes, I nailed it.



It starts with how he leaves the LOS. After he has a + release, you keep waiting for him to do something good...and you just keep waiting.

So that would be a much taller but skinny Skyy Moore with at least the positive of speed.

What does that speed do? Does not play as fast as you would like. Will not separate against better corners.

Would be a solid replacement for the MVS role in our offense which is decoy/ and cover 2 attacker who can find big windows with a better awareness than MVS but still not exciting enough for me.

Would rate him below Zay Flowers, Addison, and Rashee Rice from last year.


And after this post where you said I was nuts I clarified exactly what that meant by how he was a long strider that took a while to reach top speed.

The combine showed that when you got stuck on 1 metric.

I'm with you.

Maybe double down and take Corley in the 2nd and ask him to play 1/2 McKinnon's HB role + 1/2 slot.

Here's my response:

Like I said, this is what I seriously pushed back on, and I was 100% proven right.

His GPS speed tracking during an actual game turned out to be far more impressive than his 40.

Like I said, it's the exact opposite. He plays faster than he times. This is indisputable at this point, but of course you will continue to argue otherwise, or deflect from the actual point I was originally trying to make.