It is simply criminal that the Chiefs organization has not supplied Veech with a time machine, so that he can jump out a season or two and evaluate the potential draft picks properly.

I don't like looking for a "#2" though. Go look for a potential #1 and go from there.

WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN, lol

Everyone knows but you I guess.

Oh I don't think anyone looks for a lesser player - especially if you're drafting one in the first round.

But I'm going to assume you're making a different argument - notably that you'd rather not trade ceiling for floor. You don't want to pass on a potential #1 for a more sure thing who will be a viable #2.

But...isn't that kinda what we both were eager to do with Emeka Egbuka? I don't think either of us saw him as a potential superstar yet he seemed like such a sure thing as a strong NFL contributor that we'd have been more than happy to take him even if he's less likely than say Legette or Walker to be a 1.

(And if that's NOT what you were trying to say, I have no idea what it may be - are you saying don't look for a complement to Rice but rather just the best collection of skills you can find even if some of those are redundant when paired with Rice?)

I'd trade some of it for Egbuka but I also think his upside is higher than you do. I love that dude with his route running and such here. But for the most part, I think you start looking for that guy in the 3rd round.

In the first, I'm just pretty much out on a WR or the ones that are gonna be there when I can take an upside swing on Legette in round 2 (theoretically).

I also go with the thought that we're dealing with a bit of a force multiplier here at QB and HC, so there should be a bit of a bump in numbers and skill from that.

Someobody is going to fall in love with Legette's measurables and his productivity this season. Lack of production prior be damned - that combination is going to turn at least one head.

If you want Legette, you're taking him in the 1st (IMO). If you're looking for a 2nd round guy I think you're maybe looking at Polk if you're lucky.

If I have to....if I could explain the lack of production....I'd probably do it.

I'd love it if the Chiefs could find a "WR 1" to pair with Rice. "WR 1" meaning speed, routes and hands.

Rice is great after the catch (he's great overall) but he isn't a burner and his hands are not the best. So much of Rice's production this year started with short passes and/ or passes behind the LOS. Chiefs would do well to draft a deep threat guy.

On a related topic, am I off or did the Chiefs abandon the Jet Sweep this year? I certainly did not keep record of it but my casual observation is that we just lost that play out of the playbook this year. Didn't really see it even when Hardman returned.

I didn’t say Veach has been an absolute failure. I said he has not done a good enough job in the wide receiver room after the hill trade. Maybe terrible was too strong a word, as after all he did get Rice. But clearly what he has done in the draft and the free Asian market has not been enough to give Mahomes the receivers he needs. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn’t watched any games this year.

Free agent market. These mistakes happen when you use voice dictation.

Veach was trying to find WRs on the Free Asian market? That might be the problem right there.

Isn't that where they say COVID came from?

Wish I would've looked there, mine cost me money

What the Chiefs did in the WR room in 2022 absolutely was "enough" to give Mahomes what he needed. The Chiefs were an efficient, balanced, and explosive offense that led the NFL in most advanced and standard passing categories. It was enough for Mahomes to be the league MVP, again.

What they did in 2023 was not enough, as of current date. That required a lot of factors to fail:

Valdes-Scantling regressing badly
+
Toney and Moore both failing to take a step forward
+
Veteran Toney/Moore insurance policy Richie James getting hurt early

If even one of those things is different, it probably looks a lot more like 2022.

Either way, saying they have failed at this since the Hill trade, period, is not accurate.

Nick Wright made a good point -- The Bills defense was 9th in the league and is seen as an asset to their playoff run.

The Chiefs offense was 9th in the league and is seen as a cluster**** built by reeruned monkeys.

Perspective is a funny thing. And a BUNCH of people - seemingly a large chunk of the fanbase - is sorely lacking in it.

While true I also think we're underestimating our ceiling when we compare ourselves to others. There's one school of doing just fine without help. Another school that says if we do this well with serious flaws, imagine what aliens Reid and mahomes become with more help. because to me we should always be in the conversation for #1 and our ceiling is to sprint away from the next closest #2 offense

For me, it's all the basic things we can't do that justify the need. It's quite amazing when you consider all the throws mahomes is not allowed to make because our WRs really have to have the ball spoonfed to them just for the chance to make a catch.

It is wild, indeed.

The big separator between the two offenses is that Buffalo had a better red zone efficiency, because Josh Allen's running ability is a weapon in the red zone, and they are willing to use him as a runner all season.

The Chiefs really don't actively use Mahomes as a red zone weapon during the regular season, except in the rare must-have spot (and those are usually scramble situations).

The Chiefs were actually better at moving the ball and sustaining drives.

It's actually brilliant how Mahomes does it. Because he probably could be a halfway effective dual threat year round but I'm assuming both Mahomes and Reid have come to the understanding we keep that card in the hand unless it's absolutely critical.

Pat said it in the interview - come playoff time, he does things differently.

He acknowledged that he leaves yards on the field in the regular season because he's not as young as he used to be. He's gotta avoid some of those hits. But in the post-season, he's going to hang it all out there.

I don't expect that Mahomes will make a bigger impact with his legs than Allen in this game. But I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.

If KC isn't aligning themselves to get a Franchise LT, then I'm going for Brian Thomas Jr in the 1st. I wouldn't **** around like the Packers did with Aaron Rodgers.

Not a coincidence that two rookie wide receivers with the same type of game (Puka and Rice) are dominating. Modern defensive schemes are vulnerable if you've got a physical mauler like Rice working underneath routes.

I also think the buffalo comparison is tough because so much of their ranking is built off of a really really bad start. They are a very different offense. Phased out knox because kincaid is a way bigger option. Leaning way more on cook where for years they've refused to run the ball. Evolved from a 12 personnel team to using shakir more in 3 wr sets.

So if you base it off their second half offense buffalo probably nets out way better. However I think they've outplayed their potential. Even at their peak best on offense it still seems way too inconsistent particularly in big games

Their offense in the 1st half of the season was only terrible in the red zone, if I remember correctly. Plenty of explosive plays but then they'd turtle up/f*** it up

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Not really sure what he'd have to do. The rest of the receivers in that room look like they're the ones playing their first year in the NFL.

If Rice is available and not in the game on critical passing downs in favor of one of these other clinically braindead brickhanded window lickers, then it's a monumental gaffe by Andy Reid.

Reid and Nagy said that Nagy is actually responsible for who is in the game on offense.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3MQV5rIS3NU?si=TFIDu8aaLemxjKsW" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Eisen is the best, man.

That's a great interview.

Rashee seems like such a good dude. Thoughtful, respectful, engaging…just a real good kid who seems like he’s been raised right. Hard worker who takes nothing for granted. Makes it really easy to get behind a cat like that. Got a feeling he’s going to be one of my all time favorites.

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bfEcsIq5cQI" width="560" height="315" title="A YouTube video" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is the full interview.

Sorry if the embed is bad, had to put it through a generator cause of mobile.

Gotta love the difference between how Dak and Mahomes ran their throwing sessions
Dak just wanted to get throws in
Patrick wanted him running routes certain ways

Small wonder Dak can’t get over the hump in the playoffs

So it's confirmed Nagy was the one responsible for the braindead WR rotations earlier in the year? Neat.

Rice - 938 and 7 TDs
Flowers 858 and 5 TDs

National Media only talking about Flowers

There so bias!!!!

And Wrong!

Rice has been great, but the team still needs to draft a number 1 receiver, or start using him like one. He has one of the lowest aDOT’s which is why the other receivers get more attention.

...and Rice was realistically about 6" away from having a total of 9 TD's

and that shitty non block in the back as well...

Because the media wants Lamar and the ravens to win they're tired of Patrick Mahomes.

Flowers is more show and shake and bake which is why he gets the attention. I will take Rashee Rice all day twice on Sunday.

Yep, take the best WR available in the draft and since it's deep year it'll be very advantageous to get Veach's WR "draft crush"

It's your birthday!!

If Flowers lines up across from Sneed, he won’t know what hit him. That little fella is gonna get piss pounded into the dirt.

Give me a WR in 1/2 and another in 3/4, Bart.

Need to get a TE somewhere in there as well. That is unless a solid one will be available in FA.

If you flipped Flowers with Rice in Kansas City then Flowers undoubtedly would have more yards. We have no other WRs in KC so he is force fed the ball. Also the Chiefs throw the ball much more. Mahomes has 597 attempts vs Lamars 457. May not be a huge difference but Flowers probably goes for 1050 or 1100 yards here.

I'd still stick with Rice because Rice has more potential. Hes a bigger body that we dont have as much. Think his ceiling is higher than Flowers to be honest.

Rice was the 2nd best rookie WR.

He was a very good pick.

That's all there is.

yea dude thats about what i expect to happen. he’s a good receiver but i dont think he’s built for this matchup yet

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What if he wins SB MVP.....

The way he's been coming on lately?

Anythings possible, 150 and 3 tuddies would probably do the trick

I know he didn’t do much until this last season, but the more I watch Xavier Legette, the more I like him. Speed, size, contested catches, catches with his hands, high points the ball well, and super physical. SEC guy, so did these things against the best of the best. Reminds me of Anquan Boldin, but with low 4.3 speed.

I’m a draft geek, and to be honest I’m not very good at projecting OL and to some degree DL, but I’ll put my WR and CB track record up against anyone’s. I had Rice going to us in the 2nd last year pre-draft.

I think Legette’s lack of production until last season will actually work in our favor. If he produced throughout his entire career like he did last season he’d be gone long before we picked. According to some scouting video that someone posted in the WR thread in the draft forum, he just got tired of mediocrity and busted his ass working to become better before last season.

Rice and him as our WRs would be freaking scary for the rest of the league.

Does Ward cover Rice in the SB? Can Rice play his usual game and carve up the Niners defense? Curious how this match up is gonna play out.

If the 49ers go man, I’d expect Ward to take Rice.

I don’t expect them to play a ton of man, though. It’s not in their defensive DNA.

Only two teams played less man than the 49ers (Saints and Bengals) and the corners they tend to have usually are zone fit guys.

Even with the Chiefs struggles at time against man coverage, I’m not sure man is a good answer for the 49ers because it’s just not what they are built to do at all.

I expect them to do something like cover-2 man where they put safeties deep and double Kelce. They'd be insane if they came out in zone like the Ravens did. Mahomes and Kelce carved up the statistically greatest defense of all time (according to dumbass ravens fans).

That's not in their traditional game plan, though. Cover 3, Cover 4, Cover 6. That's what they do.

They'll do the same thing the Ravens tried to do. Nothing over the top and make the Chiefs play mistake free football. That and hope that 4 can get home or rush Mahomes.

This. It's very unlikely they come out doing something different than what they've been doing all year. This game could look like the Ravens game. We have to keep the pedal to the metal in the 2nd half. The 49ers have a real quarterback, unlike the Ravens

Thankfully, the 49ers don't have that Ravens defense. As long as we play mostly mistake free, I think stopping Mahomes is a tall order for the niners

Yeah, I think you're right. They'll do that for a half. And if Mahomes, Kelce, Rice, and Pacheco execute, the Chiefs will methodically dice them up.

They showed in the first half against the Ravens they can play at the efficiency level of the 2022 offense, if teams play zone and try to make them go on long drives.

The question is how long San Fran will stick with that?

If they try to man guys up with dudes like Lenior having to do it they'll get roasted.

This dude had 2 postseason TD's wiped off the board cause of BS penalties btw. His redemption is due.

He also had 2 to 3 in the regular season he got stopped at or inside the 1

Good call broham and I FULLY expect that they will come in and try to run that Tampa 2 shell.

The issue is, Rice figured out zones as the season went on and of course there's Kelce.

I just see this matchup as the best we could hope for in this game. Rice should have a big day

I found a site that tracks formation usage. Not sure of its veracity but seems on the level.
http://thekneeldown.westus.cloudapp.azure.com/

Per this, they only ran 63 snaps of cover 2 this year in the regular season. Can they really lean into that?

Seems more likely to me they come out trying to run cover 4.

Rice being #2 overall all time is very likely. I would love to see him have a huge game and knock Chase off of the top spot.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/mos...nfl-postseason

Ohhhhhh nice. If that's true then they've just been in cover 3 or 4 basically most of their defensive snaps.

If not for that weak hold on Trey, he’d have a really good chance.

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What's Rashee driving?

The more I read and watch this kid, the more I think he’s going to be a legit superstar.

No injury concerns
No personality concerns
No work ethic concerns
No physical limitations
Steps up in big games
Pat has full trust in him

Veach hits 1 more homerun like the Rice pick on a WR, this offense is going to become very special in the coming years.

C8 Corvette

Nice. I was hoping it wasn't some supercar that would suck up all his money. Those Corvettes are sharp looking, and it's easy (for me) to confuse them with a supercar from a distance, but I bet they're a lot cheaper to operate.

3T trim level 80k+
ZO6 trim level 100k+

Definitely nothing stupid priced for a young professional athlete to get into a sports car.

That mfer is sweet, looks like the Batmobile

Those mid-engine C8s are light years easier to maintain and operate than Ferrari’s and most other supercars, and their performance is not that much different, depending on the trim package.

1800 fewer parts (crazy!) than the C7s. C7s are great cars, but are a bit over-engineered and you’d get tons of interior noises. Rattles and squeaks galore. They took care of that in the C8s by “trimming the fat” significantly. So much so that there’s only one part on the C7 that was carried over to the C8 - out of thousands of parts. Totally different cars.

For the money, you really can’t get a better supercar experience than those C8 Vettes, especially if you splurge on the trim package. Smart buy by Rashee.

I remember someone on here saying to me nobody was going to replace Juju's production. I just wanted to say that. :)

Rice is awesome! Niners don't have anyone that can cover him in the slot. Rice will feast next Sunday.

The ultimate irony is Mahomes running the Alex Smith dink-and-dunk offense all they way through the playoffs and winning a Super Bowl with it.

As someone who maybe doesn't always give Veach the props he deserves, in favour of praising the coaches for getting the best out of players...yeah, Rice was a GREAT move. Phenomenal.

I went back to look at his college tape and to remind myself of what I thought of him. In the draft forum I liked him, but I had to be persuaded, I think by DJ and others. I looked at his highlight from I think 2021-22? He looked great. When I looked at his highlights from 2022-23 I saw someone I thought was explosive at the catch point, but never really separated. He looked OK in his route running but nothing special, not particularly crisp. He didn't look that physical during the route, or like he had killer releases - although he looked quick to accelerate. Didn't look that fast to me etc etc. I just thought he was all-around decent, but nothing special.

Obviously I know s***, but in my defense a lot of pundits and evaluators with WAY better knowledge seemed pretty divided on him. A few liked him, lots didn't at all. A LOT seemed to think where we took him was a reach and that there were other guys we should've gone for.

Well, nope, Veach knew better. I thought he could be a solid Juju replacement and possession receiver. Obviously, he is just that, but he's been a lot more too with his YAC, and the coverage recognition he's showing. Really cool. Also points towards what most see as Veach's best strength. It's not that he makes no mistakes, it's that he adjusts. Moore was a guy with good short speed, poor height and strength, average explosion and poor agility. He made sure with Rice that far more physical boxes were ticked.