Not necessarily disagreeing with you.

however, JJSS is already all of those things; no need to 'make' anything out of anyone.

But you're right also in that we need someone more reliable than MVS outside.

Personally, I'd like to see Veach make a reasonable offer to JJSS. But I'd like to let MVS go (trade, whatever) and either find someone else or mold someone like Skyy or Toney into that other role. Problem with both is their relative lack of stature. MVS is 6' 4". Skyy and toney are both under 6 ft.

Yeah you won't see me argue against that.

It's why i was so heavy on George Pickens. I view Moore as the kind of player you take when you already have your "George Pickens" on the roster. A complimentary role player to the bigger pieces.

And when Skyy was drafted, the "bigger piece" was JJSS....which is entirely underwhelming.

And i said it at the time of JJSS' signing. "If JJSS is the center piece of our WR room rebuild that's going to be incredibly disappointing."

Yeah we're not gonna agree on that one.

Hell, a broadcaster in one of last games referred to JJSS as a "WR/TE hybrid". Which is comically a back handed compliment, and fairly accurate.

Nah. I want a WR/WR Hybrid that defenses worry about leaving alone on an island.

No defense is worried about leaving JJSS on an island.

Are the WRs in front of Skyy really that much better than the receivers in front of Pierce?

Juju = Pittman
Pierce Campbell = MVS

Is it empty stats that he can force himself onto the field with his play but Skyy can't?

Agreed, but damn i don't wanna go down that road yet again.

Uh he kinda did in LA. The guy made (I believe) 2 critical catches on 3rd down and one of them was on the game winning drive.

Why is "WR/TE hybrid" a back-handed compliment?

TEs are the biggest mismatch in football. Too big for most DBs to cover, and too athletic for most LBs. Not seeing the slight there.

Because they're more or less calling him a big, slow zone eater.

You think they'd call Chase or Hill or Jefferson or Diggs etc etc a "WR/TE Hybrid"?

Hell no.

And unlike an ACTUAL TE, he is not too big to cover. And he'll never be matched up on a LB, and he'll rarely be more athletic than the DB covering him.

So no, i don't view it as a good thing for our WR to be called that.

Um, teams have already matched LBs on him. And he doesn't have to be more athletic than a CB, just use his size to shield them off. Which he does fairly well already.

But this is just semantics now. I'm not married to JJSS. I think we need someone like him, but if we can find a guy with more athleticism without losing anything, why not.

That only further proves my point.

Think about what you're saying here. Teams are willing to put a linebacker on our #1 WR?

Yikes that's bad.

You'd NEVER put a LB on a legitimate WR threat. The fact that teams are willing to do that tells you what the NFL thinks of him.

And i say that all the time. Teams TELL you what they think by how they play you.

Kelce draws triple coverage.

JJSS draws a LB.

If you are in fact right, they are TELLING you how much of a threat JJSS is to them.

I think JJSS has been fine but I basically agree with all this. He'd also be an embarrassing WR1. I think our scheme and Pat have made him look good

Veach is always looking to add players from a point of analytics and value. His track record for signings reinforces that belief.

I think Veach will offer Hardman AND Juju bargain deals in hopes of retaining them, but in his mind and in closed door meetings, I think he will be ok letting both walk for 2024 comp picks if the coaches are confident in the abilities of Skyy Moore and MVS while the training staff having positive outlooks for Toney and Ross. Then you save the cap space for a big swing on the offensive or defensive lines. Maybe even a trade for a guy like Tunsil.

Then you draft a WR and try to being Watson back on a value deal. Fortson could probably play the role Juju is currently playing in this offense at a similar production amount.

Our 2024 draft could be stacked if Bienemy gets a HC job and we get comp picks for Hardman and Juju…especially if we can move the cap resources to a more needed position.

Well, to be fair, JJSS has drawn LBs in certain situations. And those were pretty much forced by how Andy schemed the play.

The two times i remember JJ getting a LB fore sure were when he was lined up as the H or when the Chiefs were lined up in 13 personnel and at the snap JJ ran his route to the inside, drawing the LB.

None f that is new in Andy's offense, of course, he does it a lot. And in the past, that was something Sammy did as well.

Hell, there was at least one play when technically Tyreek was lined up in the T/H (iirc), and he actually tried to block a DE.

Man, there's being critical, like...thoughtful analysis, and then there's what half of this board does: Everyone sucks, the coaching sucks, the players suck and all need replaced, Veach sucks and his evaluations suck, all of these draft picks suck because we should have drafted the guy I liked instead and we're 11 games into their rookie years and they're not dominating, and it all just sucks.

It's ****ing ridiculous.

I'll go out on a limb and say no team has intentionally put a LB on JuJu. That's just the way it worked out and it was probably what we wanted to happen. It happens with other teams too.

That's not what's happening here at all. You're being dramatic.

Imma go on a limb and say that no competent defense would ever allow an elite caliber WR to line up on a LB, no matter how good the offensive scheme is.

The Chiefs can "want" a mismatch all they want, but they were never, ever gonna get a LB covering Tyreek Hill downfield.

The only way that happens is because the player is an after thought and the defense is focusing their attention on more primary, dangerous targets.

Teams are constantly scheming to get WRs matched up with LBs. It happens every week in the NFL.

Nah, he’s spot on. You’re desperate to be right on this take. Why keep posting over and over again about a receiver with this limited sample size? Things will figure themselves out over time and you’ll be wrong or not.

LMAO Nailed it.

I don't get the negativity on here lately and there's been alot of it since that loss last week. IMO this has been one of the best if not the best job this staff has done in Reids time while being here when you consider alot of the free agents we brought in are playing better than what they did for their previous teams and there's a handful of rookies of have done a really really good job this season all while guys like Pacheco & Moore have emerged the last month

Well, we're only 9-3. We're only scoring 29 pts/gm (best in the league). We're only going to lock up our 7th (however many at this point) consecutive AFC-W about a month before the end of the season. Mahomes is only on a record-setting pace for yards, TDs, TD/INT ratio with an entirely new WR room. We're only a 99% probability of making the playoffs with a month to go.

I mean, obviously we suck. Isn't it obvious?

I think instead of enjoying the ride people listened to idiots like Nick Wrights talk about being dynasty. Still could happen but regardless we will never have a QB this good and a top 5 all time coach. We should enjoy it for what it is and whatever happens.

Not gonna lie, was definitely expecting more from Skyy Moore this year. But we do have 3 WR's above him so not many opportunities and he is a rookie. Only the legends have 1,000 yards their rookie season. But still did expect a little more than this though.

:clap:

I want to see how scoring a TD will both boost Skyy's confidence and Mahomes' confidence in him.

The same people that told us that the Chiefs were going to obviously have a down year, most unhappy about the offseason and in particular the Tyreek trade, are the same people doing the most bitching.

Just think about that for a second.

They're miserable people that don't know how to enjoy the golden age of Chiefs football.

People love to be miserable. That's a fact. Really, if you think about it, this stuff is just the collective anxiety of CPers in print for all the world to see. And I'm pretty sure that venting this stuff is supposed to make you feel better.

But some people just have to wallow in it, like pigs in shit.

This.

And hi, TEX.

Yup, and King.

Imagine going into the season with very low expectations (at least in comparison to the new standard) and somehow being disappointed at this point of the season?

They'll bitch about Veach while ignoring the fact that he actually exceeded their expectations.

Then when you point this out to them, they'll say "well duh they have Mahomes!".

Like they didn't already know we had Mahomes and what he was capable of when they were setting their expectations.

It's all absurd.

I thought we’d be 10-7 this season. I wasn’t convinced Mahomes was gonna have an MVP season and thought the rest of the division and conference had gone all-in.

I was wrong. Entirely. This team deserves the benefit of the doubt at this point. And even if they fail this year with the blueprint, lacking confidence in them in the future is absolutely ludicrous. They’ve eminently proven the ability to persevere.

Well to be fair I was one of those people who were pissed off that we traded Hill but I understand why we did it. I also thought we would take a step back. I was probably wrong on that I'm not sure I still don't think we are the best team in the AFC this year. Let's same I'm right about that statement though. What does it change? This team has a tremendous outlook going forward and it's really hard to argue that they won't be even better in the next year or two.


The whole blame the refs, trade Jones, fire Toub stuff is just garbage IMO and not even worth entertaining.

Hi right back at you. You and I both picked the Chiefs to finish 11-6. Or maybe you picked them to finish 10-7. :shrug:

LOL. The difference is I’m pleased with everything we’ve gotten out of this season and you still have found a way to be a miserable little bitch.

This has nothing to do with preseason predictions. We were both wrong. You just continue to be glass-half-empty where I’m able to acknowledge that this team has dramatically exceeded expectations and I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

We also bitched about paying OBJ, while you wanted to pay him.

I said all along that KC would make the playoffs (I thought as a WC) but would be playing very well at the end of the season heading into the playoffs. And I still think they would be better with Tyreek and JuJu than with MVS and JuJu.

You and I are not as far off as you are making it out to be. I was right there with you regarding Clark this season. I'm thrilled where KC is in the standings. However, where we are different is I think the both Offensive Tackles SUCK. I think the D-Line, except for Jones, can't get to the QB, and Karlaftis has been a disappointment in that regard. I think both those issues will be our undoing when we face an elite QB in the playoffs. This team will not win a Super Bowl if both of those issues do not improve.

How in the flying **** has Karlaftis been a disappointment?

He doesn't have 10 sacks. he didn't become prime Derrick Thomas or Jared Allen in the first three months of his career. We play Madden, and there's just no way our bust of a rookie DE shouldn't have at least 35 sacks by now. We do it all the time on madden, so it must be possible for this POS George Karlaftis bust-Greek dude as well. He's obviously lazy and no good. We are preparing to burn him in effigy virtually as soon as we can figure out how to tie him to a virtual tree. Please join us in our mutual hatred of the Greek guy. Meeting is at 11.

At what point did I say I was disappointed with this season?

Or say we weren't still a superbowl contender?

I'll wait.

I agree, doesn't mean that football discussions should be stopped or that issues don't exist with the team.

I don't get why step into a Skyy Moore thread and instead of talking about Skyy Moore himself, you go "WELL THE TEAM OVERALL IS DOING GREAT! YOU DOUBT WHAT MAHOMES CAN DO?!? WE'RE 9-3, WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT SKYY MOORE IN A SKYY MOORE THREAD?!?!"

When people including me and Tex and Detoxing, and DJ were excited about adding Toney or talk about how Mahomes should win MVP or when I said DPOY could come down to Chris Jones vs Parsons, or talk about Sneed and Bolton and other good players on the team...you guys are crickets. But soon as a player is criticized, you guys want to scream about glass being half empty. How about people just want to discuss the chiefs on a chiefs forum and not every discussion is going to be sunshine and roses?

"Veach didn't do ANYWHERE near enough" (in reference to the DL)

How is that not clear and obvious disappointment?

But yes, I'm aware that you want to talk out of both sides of your mouth and pretend that being one of the best teams in the league isn't "ANYWHERE near enough".

And like I said, you'll just say "yea bc Mahomes" like you didn't know we had Mahomes when you bitched/whined all off-season and set your expectations while crying non-stop about the Tyreek Hill trade (among other things).

Bottom line: The Chiefs and Veach far exceeded your expectations, and you STILL bitch, because you're a ****ing pussy.

And you'll say things like "ANYWHERE near enough" without providing what exactly that means and what he should've done.

Should he have signed Von Miller to a huge contract?

Chandler Jones?

Should he have traded for Robert Quinn who is currently on IR?

The only free agent edge rusher that would've been a great signing in hindsight is Za'Darius Smith and he was over 30 coming off back surgery.

There was no quick fix that didn't come with a HUGE risk. If anything, he should've double down at EDGE in the draft, but that certainly wouldn't have been "ANYWHERE near enough" either.

It's not my fault that you said some really stupid shit, and instead of walking it back, decided to double down while simultaneously saying that you aren't disappointed and they're still SB contenders.

The Chiefs had nowhere near enough cap space to sign Smith.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/minnesot...s-smith-16848/

Yes I said he didn't do nowhere enough on the DL.

He could have addressed it a lot harder like we all thought he would. That doesn't mean we can't win the superbowl, but that he should have been more aggressive at improving the DL.


You have to stop making up arguments in your head and letting that fake argument get you in a tizzy.

This is where you sound like a ****ing reerun.

What qualifies as "ANYWHERE near enough"?

The obvious implication is that it's not anywhere enough to achieve the ultimate goal. If you say it isn't ANYWHERE near enough, but it's somehow enough to still win a SB, you aren't making any ****ing sense dude LMAO

Again, it's not my fault that you refuse to walk that hyperbole back a little.

Doing more than a late first rnd pick and an August training camp and inexplicably bringing Frank Clark probably.

Welcome to life having a gigantic QB contract.

Btw...this is the Skyy Moore thread. I think your anger has you a little confused. Take a few deep breaths bud

So what specifically should he have done? It's so easy to say shit like that, but when you don't provide specific examples of what would have been "ANYWHERE near enough", you're clearly just talking out of your ass and bitching just to bitch.

When they traded Tyreek, they made an obvious choice to play the long game. Signing somebody like Von Miller or trading multiple high draft picks would have contradicted that entirely. Not to mention it could've completely blown up in their face with a devastating injury to a guy already on the downside of their career.

You were clearly unhappy about the Chiefs playing the long game this offseason, and they did that while STILL being a legit SB contender and one of the best teams in the league.

We're literally playing with house money this year, and it still isn't "ANYWHERE near enough".

Which is why you don't make moves like bringing Frank Clark back who don't do anything but drain the cap in the current year and the next year.

Frank’s contract was a mistake by a young GM. Frank was really good in Seattle so his drop off (aside from the 2019 playoffs) was pretty frustrating.

However there was nothing we could do. The contract was paying him this and next year regardless dude to dead money. Yes they have to pay him more money next year, but they equaled that by taking a lot of his cap number this year.

It is what it is

Yea bringing back Frank Clark wasn't a good financial decision.

They should've paid top dollar for one of the 30+ year old pass rushers though! That would've been a BRILLIANT one!

I feel like we try to fix the tackle positions and edge rush every year.

Your feelings aren't reality.

RT has been a revolving door the past couple of years. It sounds like there is a push to play Niang again. They're probably going to have to either draft or acquire a RT next year.

Veach's answer at LT was Brown. That hasn't and will not work out. He probably won't be here next year. They're going to look for another LT.

It seemed like there was also a big push on this board to try to trade for an edge rusher like Jerry Hughes, Ngakoue etc.. before the trade deadline hit. Our edges don't sack the quarterback.

OT wasn't even an issue until a couple years ago. They spent literally 1 offseason "trying to fix it", but you "feel" like they've tried to fix it "every year".

EDGE rush has been mostly short term fixes the last few years until they invested a 1st round pick this year.

Jerry Hughes wasn't even an option, as the Texans said they weren't going to trade him. There's also nothing that says Ngakoue was on the trade block either.

Either way, those moves also would've been short term fixes as well.

The Bills, who everybody loves to suck their dick, have invested 3 early picks on their DL, and STILL felt the need to go out and pay top dollar for Von Miller who is now out for the season.

It's almost as if finding long term solutions at edge rusher isn't easy when you're picking late every single year.

Clark was literally as easy an option to take as any since he was going to count almost the same against the cap whether he was here or not.

We’re going to be in year 3 post-Schwartz and Fisher trying to figure out the tackle spots.

The Von thing was a bad blow to the Bills, but without him they don’t beat us. Can you imagine if we had someone like Ngakoue? Iirc we were interested in Zdarius Smith but we’re negotiating with Tyreek at the time.

I feel like we go after someone like that this offseason. At least I hope we do.

Schwartz sudden injury issue and retirement was out of the blue. They had Niang on the roster to replace him and he played most of last season before getting hurt in the end of the season. Wylie has been there since.

OBJ was supposed to be the answer at LT, it didnt work as expected.

Thats not exactly a revolving door.

.

Haven't you heard?? Fisher and Schwartz are coming back here.. Opps… Just Schwartz then…

He's counting for $10m on next year's cap as well because of his new deal. Whether he's here or not.

$9 milllion in dead money but $19 million saved. It’s really not as big of a deal as you’re making.

We didn’t exactly have money to spend last offseason

Soooo . . . no news on Skyy, I guess. Had to scroll up to see what thread I was in.

A thrown ball to Skyy's hands disappear like an M&M in Brooke's mouth. Those gloves are HUGE

The rumor is his gf is very satisfied with the size of his gloves.

We wouldn't owe anything next year if we cut him in the off season. $0m in cap hit vs. $9m is kind of a big deal.

FYI: according to Andy in last Wednesday's presser, Skyy has been the best run-blocking WR on the team, which is why he has such a high snap count total per game. Ditto Justin Watson.

So that mystery has been solved.

Boobie dew powered Skyy!

1 catch for 7 yards the past 3 games, zero targets in 2 of those games

Well done!

I have not seen enough flashes for us to rely on him being anything more than a WR4 next year. We need to get a REAL WR this off season. It is a must.

I really thought he would be more of a force, and I'm fine to admit I was likely wrong about him.

I figured he would have a slow start but I thought by now he'd be at least the #3 WR if not challenging for the #2 spot.

Going to be hard while also addressing OT and DE with a shit free agent class

He needs to be playing instead of Justin Watson. That drop Watson had today was inexcusable

he's been on the field. The problem is that he's been in on nearly every running play, so he has to come out and get a rest at some point, so he's been missing some passing reps. Plus, today he was literally the 3rd or 4th read in a lot of cases. And our OTs didn't hold up well today for a lot of the game, so Pat couldn't get those reads half the time. Half is hyperbolic; I didn't count, but the protection was ass today. Bet most of Pat's throws were under 2.5 seconds from the snap.

mahomes is locked in on juju and kelce and the offense is humming

no reason to force targets to other guys

Andy is doing just enough with Skyy and Toney to keep them interested and involved, playing his cards perfectly as we head into the post season...

Hard to get much worse play from OT guards. Can pick up jags and do as well as fatass and wylie

Sameish from our DEs.

We actually may be able to upgrade at those positions slightly while saving money.

All true. Had hopes for OBJ at the beginning of the season, but today was hard to watch for most of the game. There were maybe a couple of snaps where they held up, but it might've only been two, which is terrible against that DL.

And the DEs, well i don't want to get into it right now, but things have to change next season. They aren't good enough.