It's hilarious reading the last few pages. Guys getting all worked up and pissed off because the changes that we made this off-season didn't happen a year sooner. Who gives a shit??? It's in the past. You can't change it, so why get upset about it?? The changes got made. We have the best quarterback in the NFL leading the best offense in the NFL. We came oh so close with the way they played it. And now, the future looks great. I just don't understand the mindset of anyone who looks at the bright future ahead and would rather fuss and whine about unchangeable things in the past. It's just plain dumb.

Sorry if your brain is too small to process more than 1 thing but it is entirely possible to both be excited for the future of this team with Mahomes at the helm AND be irritated at shitty decision making that very well could have cost us a Super Bowl title this year.

LMAO Says the small minded prick who spends hours arguing about the past. I thought that I had you on ignore. I can't imagine why I ever took you off. You were a constant whiner that I got sick of. Nothing has changed. Time to put you back on ignore where you belong and improve my CP experience immensely

Seems like from what you are saying they must've misjudged everywhere

I'm more upset that it seems like they did it half assed and might've sacrificed a super bowl victory.

Either go all in on a 3-4 scheme or 4-3 but don't draft guys that don't fit what you plan to run. Don't sign free agents that don't fit.

Coming from the guy who claims the earth is 6000 years old, this comment is golden!

How is this even remotely relevant?

It's not. He's just too dumb to come up with an intelligent response, so he makes stupid comments like the one you just saw. Mama Gump was talking about him when she said "stupid is as stupid does".

He is just wanting to liq your coochie.....

People bitched when we drafted Mahomes because he wasn't a pick to immediately help the defense. It was a pick for the future. Now look at how that has turned out.
People bitched when we drafted Speaks as he didn't really have a good fit. Now it looks like he is going to have a nice fit at DE. Looks like another pick for the future situation.
Nobody knew Mahomes was going to have the season he had and the offense was going to explode like it did this year.
Because of future thinking and picking we look like we are heading down the correct path.

Or Sutton and his assistants did a poor job of teaching assignments and techniques.

I tend to lean towards that conclusion.

I don't think there's any question that Reid's loyalty to the man let him stay at least a season too long; the only question is was there consideration for a scheme switch a season before they implemented it?

I think it kind of looks like maybe so, yeah.

Did it ultimately cost us a SB? Maybe. Was there any way in hell that anyone on earth realistically could expect Mahomes to do what he did? Be what he is so quickly? NO.

I think any stable organization probably has something like a 3 year plan in place at all times. You'd have to, right? To try to balance salaries, the cap, the ageing of players, who you're going to need to groom replacements for and when you're probably going to move on.

Andy's comments about the future of defense being INSIDE pressure was telling I think mainly because historically speaking when he ran the Eagles organization, he spent money on corners and edge rushers, LT's, WR's and of course QB. That's an 'outside in' strategy. That's pretty typical NFL thought. It might be reading too much into an off-the-cuff comment, but Andy is very careful about what he says, so maybe not. Traditionally, your 3-4 defensive linemen are space eating run stuffers and your pass rush comes from your OLB'ers. So, I think that comment was interesting from a head coach who's team was running a 3-4 at the time.

Couple that with the draftees-most of which fit better in a 4-3, and that's why I think there might have been a plan to make a scheme change. I don't think they were 'wasted' I think they were seen as being situational fits for nickel and pass rush situations in their first year, and possibly getting more responsibility in their second year. I'm sure Houston's contract, Ford's running out, and Berry's contract were all part of the thought; if you're going to make a change, 2019 would be the first year you can either get out of these big contracts or restructure/re-sign depending on performance.

I think that Reid and Veach felt like upending both ends of the ship in a 'transition year' with a first time starting QB was inviting too much chaos; I think Andy wanted to concentrate on Mahomes and didn't want a distraction of feeling like he needed to be worrying about what the DC was doing. I think they thought the defense would be serviceable and Reid could be really hands on with his new QB. They even brought in an expensive new toy with Watkins to really make sure he had the best possible situation with weapons all around him.

They thought the defense would be serviceable. They thought Mahomes was going to be good, but nobody knew THIS GOOD, THIS FAST.

Then in 2019, the big contracts on defense would be in a place where they could make changes and one more draft probably gets the personnel changed over to switch to a 4-3.

It's not unreasonable, it's not stupid, it makes perfect sense; and nobody would be angry except that Mahomes was amazing and if the defense had been just a little better we're in the SB.

Before the season, nobody would have predicted that, and everyone would've taken a 12-4 season in which we made it to the AFC championship game with Mahomes winning MVP and been ecstatic.

We can just drop the whole thing because people have aligned into different camps on this and aren't interested in considering any other lines of thought. You either think:
a)no, they didn't have plan in place to change
b) they did and they're idiots for not doing it immediately or
c) considering the new QB and defensive contracts on the books it made sense to roll status quo on defense and let Reid worry about the first year QB.

So let's just move on.

The important thing is, someone was looking to the future instead of worrying about "win now". And because they did, there's going to be a whole shitload of "win now" in games that need to be won.
Getting mad because Mahomes turned out to be a prodigy and the rest of our concept wasn't fully realized yet is absurd. Ignorant.

its weird that all of these guys had good seasons and then came to the Chiefs and sucked ass. Bennie Logan, Xavier Williams, Anthony Hitchens.

I think so.

exactly

it's kind of like... Sutton only knows ONE WAY to play defense; you need a 350 lb nose, and a Bart Scott/Ray Lewis/Derrick Johnson in his prime MLB. If you don't have one or both of those things, he's completely unable to make any adjustment at all to do anything else.

Don't forget the all-pro safety.

Sutton had the personnel to have an all-time great d when he arrived in KC.

He legitimately had 5 all-pro caliber players at his disposal.

Yep. They were good for 3 years until those guys started aging/breaking down.

And part of the reason Poe broke down was because Sutton wouldn't take him off the field.

Just think guys, with a modest improvement how awesome we can be. If our D gets just two more stops per game thats 32 more opportunities to score. Mahomy might just break 55 TD's and 5400 yards both NFL records.

Remember when Sutton would say things like "We don't adjust to what offenses are doing, they adjust to what we force them to"? Well, that philosophy plays a lot better when you have that all-pro potential on the field. That's what infuriated me the most about Sutton, and likely what finally lost him his job, he just REFUSED to make adjustments (for the most part) because he always believed his talent on defense was better than the offensive talent he was facing. And we all saw how that played when we lost Prime Poe, Prime Berry, and Prime DJ.

the only way you can play that way is if you spend the whole game in the offensive backfield. I didn't see nearly enough aggressiveness from his front seven for that to be the case.

biggest problem right now is that we literally don't have a SAM on the roster.

Yep.

That's kinda cherry picking don't you think? The Chies had plenty of guys come from other teams and have the best years of their careers. For some reason, those guys were mostly secondary guys. But the point stands. Sean Smith, Hussein Abdullah, Terrence Mitchell, and I can't think of his name now. He came from Oakland on a one year deal. He was a great safety for us, then left as a free agent and sucked again. I'm not touting them to promote Sutton. I'm glad he's gone. I'm just trying to show a little balance.

Then he should have been shit-canned before last season, especially if we were going to further hamstring him with players that didnt fit his scheme

well, I would say that's because he had POE and prime Derrick Johnson, Tamba Hali, and Justin Houston.

go ahead, you are the one who keeps responding. i'll continue to discuss it.

why? Nobody else is.

really?

looks like there's a discussion happening. posts are going up.

i realize that you've said you were through arguing it, then told someone to get off your shit, now are telling me to move on. but not before coming here today and writing a thousand word essay responding to me. do you just need the last word so you can feel right or something? i disagree with what you are saying.

maybe it will die if you quit responding, maybe not. but if YOU are done talking about it just stop. i'll continue to respond to posts that i disagree with because thats what this place is for.

we're discussing other things related to the orginal post.

I'm not really interested in arguing with a wall about the possible/maybe/who knows hypothetical two year plan with the defense. It doesn't matter. Who cares? I'm more interested in discussing Spagnuolo and what the new defensive scheme will bring.

do what you wanna do, man. I'm not the boss of you. :)

Since you brought up Watkins I'd like to point out their idiocy with the defense wasted a year of his contract too.

I like Watkins. Hopefully he can be healthy this year.

We agree

Amen, brother... even marginal improvement would be SO big

And frankly, I'm expecting better than "marginal"... another draft, another free agency period, and of course this high powered new coaching staff should propel that unit to middle of the pack at worst

Maybe it works that way. But I don't know. If our defense can hold teams to around 20 points per game, I'm not sure that Andy Reid is having Patrick slinging it down field that much late. If the score is, say 28-15 in the beginning of the 4th quarter, Mahomes is probably just handing it off and throwing short stuff. Hell, Henne may even get a few snaps in.

Not at that score differential with basically a whole quarter to play. 2 scores in the NFL can happen in a matter of minutes(see Chiefs v Chargers). 38-15, that’s another story.

The games that really inflated Mahomes' totals were games like the Rams and Pats. Those are the games that will be fewer and farther between, which is why Mahomes will likely throw for fewer yards and TDs if the defense improves.

You mean our QB's season yardage total may not break 5000 every year?

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No chance. The better our defense the less likely we get into shootouts where he has to fling 6 TDS a game. If he throws for 50 next year it means we made little to no improvement on defense.

I'm not absolutely positive, but would anyone be surprised to learn that we didn't break 5,000 yards passing in two years with Brian Daboll's system?

Daboll was only the OC for 1 year. They threw for 2700 yards that season.

So I was 47% right on all of that, lol. 2700 yards. Huh. Seems like a bad dream.


I thought Daboll was here for the Tyler Thigpen experiment, too. Those shit years just melt into each other....

put some respect on my avatar. those bucket hats dont gain yards themselves.

When you look at the second half of the season, you also saw defenses better gameplan for mahomes and also refs put less emphasis on pass interference. mahomes adjusted his game accordingly. Still mvp level performances but not quite the constant fireworks we saw early in the season. When you look at his second half, seems reasonable that he'll hover maybe just below 4500 yards 40 TDs barring some kind of sophomore slump (which I don't think is likely... We have a good idea of his floor by now). Which is still damn good.

I see a lot more games like the Raiders & 49ers games. Chiefs get a big lead & then try & run the clock.

The Rams, Patriots & Steelers games were outliers. Take those games away & that should be Mahomes typical numbers next season.

First half: 26 TD
Second half: 24 TD

Yeah and anyways the temperatures are colder in the second half of the season so it would only be normal that a QB's stats would be slightly lower.

His comments would have made more sense if he was talking about Brees or Goff. Those guys slowed down in the second half of the season.

That's what I think too.

I expect him to throw 35 TDs next season with defensive improvements. That's still going to likely be best in the league or close to it. It just won't be 50.

The year prior to Daboll was the REALLY laughable one. Old man Bill Muir. The dude who nodded off in the middle of a preseason game

I think he could still pull 40+ easy if the defense can get the opposition off the field quickly, and on a regular basis.

Granted, it's not the important thing, but I DO like having a QB that makes the rest of the league look like schlubs. :)

That's the thing. With even a respectable D we don't need to score 21 pts in the 4th quarter of games. Instead we're running the clock to protect the lead...

They still threw for over 3000 yards. ;)

:hmmm:

This does not make much sense. So the Defense will be getting off the field more and giving the Offense more chances to score- yet Mahomes is going to suddenly be mediocre?

We won't be running the 90's Chiefs offense.

Mahomes will be the first 50 /50 QB in the NFL.

I am calling it now.

I could see Mahomes' TD production drop to 48 or 49.

So we are going to get these big leads- but it won't be Mahomes throwing the football. :hmmm:

Plus you are assuming the Defense will be improved- something we have been waiting on for a decade now.

You might want to look at our schedule next year- we won't be just blowing the doors off those teams and then coasting every second half.

Mahomes should see more field time with a good defense. I don’t see him holding back even with 14 pt leads in the 4th.

Mahomes is not wired that way- he sees an open guy, he is throwing it.

Hopefully losing so many games with Huge leads has cured Andy of his second-half turtle routine, where he gets a lead and then milk the clock. This the NFL, you can't let up on teams.

Yes he is, and thank God for it. There's no such thing as too many TD's.

I was agreeing that Mahomes will Not turn into a milk the clock, check down artist like Alex was- despite Andy getting scared every time he has the lead.

Mahomes is always looking downfield.

Reid could direct him to go easy but if he sees his shot, he's taking it.

Mahomes takes over threads like he takes over games.

uhhhh....35 TD's is nowhere near mediocre.

A decent defense could mean fewer TD passes and more running the ball, protecting big leads in the second half.

At any rate, it's not really realistic to expect Pat to put of 50 every year, I mean he's only the 3rd guy ever to do it period in the first place.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> are expected to franchise tag Dee Ford, keeping a talented rusher in the building, as they work through acquisition scenarios for their new 4-3 defense. <a href="https://twitter.com/nflnetwork?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@nflnetwork</a> <a href="https://t.co/O3uRr69hTQ">pic.twitter.com/O3uRr69hTQ</a></p>&mdash; Tom Pelissero (@TomPelissero) <a href="https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1097930657882357760?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 19, 2019</a></blockquote>
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I mean, thanks Tom. But that's been expected all along.

35 passing TDs is mediocre? ROFL

Exactly.

I hear they're trying to make him a coach.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">For weeks, this was the expected move for the Chiefs, who really value Dee Ford &amp; what he accomplished last season. Ford also anticipated this decision after the season ended. <a href="https://t.co/ie3YHkvVij">https://t.co/ie3YHkvVij</a></p>&mdash; Nate Taylor (@ByNateTaylor) <a href="https://twitter.com/ByNateTaylor/status/1097932815096860678?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 19, 2019</a></blockquote>
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In the video they say the Chiefs Defensive staff was finalized last week. Wondering why nothing official has come from the Chiefs.

The franchise record was 30, which stood forever. CP never fails to entertain.

Probably because if Spags has a conference he has to say what they expect Dee Ford to be in his new scheme. If he says DE the Chiefs have to pay him $2m more.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> are going to be paying Dee Ford approximately $15.8 million on the tag. If they release Justin Houston, as is the likely outcome, they save $14 million.<br><br>In terms of cap space, they lose $1.8M under that scenario, leaving about $25M to pay draft class, free agents</p>&mdash; Matt Verderame (@MattVerderame) <a href="https://twitter.com/MattVerderame/status/1097933540195557376?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 19, 2019</a></blockquote>
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Or get rid of Ford and we have 15.8 million more

So this is the third time I have heard that the Chiefs are trying to figure out what to do with Justin Houston and Eric Berry since our season ended. First it was from Mellinger, then Rappoport and now Pelissero.

Something is happening with these guys. Idk what, but there’s too much smoke to think otherwise.

I'd imagine they'll go to them and ask about a restructure or lowering their money or they'll cut them.

Easier to do with Houston for sure.

Dee Ford is going to end up getting over $17M, he's a defensive end now.

As for the cap space, you factor in PPE and bonuses and another $3M disappears. $4-5M for rookies. Sign Tyreek Hill and Chris Jones and the rest of it is gone.

They're not signing any marquis free agents. They don't have any money to do so.