You know... Nothing against you or your little argument here (which I've seen other people use ie. Titus)... But it's incredibly weak. Tell Kordell Stewart that he's allowed to have errant throws... Or Jay Fiedler... Or Brian Griese... Or Jeff Garcia... There are few quarterbacks that are given leeway on errant throws... and the ones that are have earned it by being Brett Favre, Kurt Warner, or Donovan McNabb...

Get over it. Until TrINT Green wins something worthwhile, he's going to get criticized by the Chiefs fan base.

I think stevieray meant that those other QB's get a pass from people here who would be labeled Greenbashers.

I guarantee that I want Green to be successful every single week. I can guarantee you that I've never been happy to see him have a bad game. I guarantee that I'm not one of the "green bashers".

so, once again......Do you "believers think the Green deserves a long term, top 5-10, Franchise QB type contract at the end of the season?

While we're at it and defending arguments....you called for my list of 12 better QBs.....Add Peyton Manning to my list and please tell me which of the ones I listed(at your request) you would NOT take over Green.( I wouldn't take Gannon in particular due to age)

Spoon..lol

I think what stands out are the intangibles that help a team reach great heights. Rushing for first downs. 200 yards rushing...a lot of those yards kept drives alive. Won the game against Buffalo getting that first... Heads up thinking...Cleveland. Playing hurt..not only last year, but in this last game. This alone really earns the respect of your teammates. Success in the two minute drill..not every time, but enough to have hope for a win.

everyone keeps screaming about a top notch QB, but very few of those exist. Players like Vick, McNabb, Culpepper are the new mold, because that is what the current game requires...Players are so big and so fast...And besides, all Green does is what Al tells him to do. This game would be totally different if QB's HAD to call their own plays.

Tac-o, my point is other Qb's don't get nitpicked on every missed pass.

Why shouldn't Chiefs fans give "those other QBs" a pass? WTF do Chiefs fans care if Fiedler throws an errant pass here and there?

I DO like alot of things about Green.....I like that he appears to be a "team player", I like that he is a good "community guy"(so is Dilfer)...I like that he accepts responsibility when he screws up, I like his heart....diving head first for the endzone to win the game.....

Green recieved several cheers from me, and comments on the shots he took and got back up....

Don't lump me in the "green sucks" crowd.....But feel free to put me in the "Green isn't Quarterback Jesus" club.

I see several positions that I'd like to see improved with outside players Before Green if that makes you feel any better.

The hell they don't. I'm willing to bet that this is about the only message board you visit with any regularity if you think that is the case. Brian Griese has won 7 games for us, and he gets criticized each and every game for the stuff he didn't do right... There are Dolphins fans, who despite going on a skid with Lucas, still criticize Fiedler for some of the stuff they think he does wrong. On the San Francisco board, there are fans who call Jeff Garcia a loser who will never be able to take them to the big game.

The stuff I read about Green is pretty mild compared to what a lot of the other teams do. He certainly doesn't have it any worse in KC than if he were in Denver or Miami.

Trent is the #10 QB in the league right now. If he finishes in the top ten then why wouldn't he deserve to be paid like a top ten QB? But then I don't think Trent will be hard to deal with in regards to doing a cap friendly contract. And what does next years contract have to do with Trents play right now? Why does money have to even be brought into the argument at this point? It really has nothing to do with what Trent is doing for and with the team right now. Trent is leading as good as any QB in the league right now IMO. And that's what really matters IMO.

PhilFree:arrow:

Then fans have unrealistic expectations. Nitpicking every pass is BS.

Of course this the only football board I frequent....Why would I go anywhere else? And besides how is that relevant? You have 8000 posts here, your own board, and visit all those others sites?

You need to get out more, bud.

:LOL: You been reading this board long enough to know that fans are unrealistic. Hell fans are unrealistically unrealistic.:LOL:

PhilFree:arrow:

Why would Chiefs' fans care what those other QB's do?

As for whether or not other cities scrutinize their QB the way we do? You bet your ASS they do.

I would agree... My point is, it isn't an exclusive thing to Kansas City. So when you say:

...that's off base.

Amen to that. If you don't believe it, pop into the Orangemane, or Finheaven and read the exact same arguments you read here, only about Griese and Fiedler.

I'm gonna take that one step further Taco...

Griese takes some shit, and I would guess that Chiefs' fans are marginally harder on Green...

But NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE in the NFL takes more shit from fans than Fiedler. Green has it good compared to him.

point taken.

I would agree with that... Griese has a pretty decent base of support, though he's got PLENTY of detractors. The difference is, however, Griese has been winning games. If the Broncos were 5-4 or worse right now, it would be just as bad or worse than what Green is taking now... even though there are plenty of Broncos fans who are rejoicing his injury...

Fiedler takes a lot of crap too... But his supporters have been laying the wood to his bashers, especially after Lucas got in and went on such a horrible skid.

I think what was intimated was that these Greenbashers would rather have any QB in the NFL other than Green. They don't bother to look at the poor decisions, stats, etc. that other QB's have, they just know anyone would be better. Kind of a 'grass is greener' thing(no pun intended).

Phil......you aren't serious?

The play of the QB has EVERYTHING to do with next years contract and the money expected.

While "statistically" Green is a top 10 QB....I can tell you that it is easier to "manipulate opinion" with statistics than it is in mapping....I can change a color scheme and sway opionion with 3 button clicks.

its all relative, and I for one hope the coaches/management look at the big picture more than "rating".

Of course, some of these other QBs can actually throw to their WRs.

I know that many people don't have much faith in the coaching staff, but I'd be pretty confident in their ability to see the big, big picture. We, the fans, see a big picture. They see much more in watching gamefilm repeatedly, being privy to who made the mistake on each poor play, and generally having more football knowledge than we do (as painful as that realization may be for some people;) )

Of course, they also might be wanting to spoon Green in the shower, which we know destroys all logic.

newchief.
You called me out to make a list....I did. Please respond as to which of those QBs you would NOT take over Green.

While I don't claim to be a Lombardi, I have participated in some football coaching....so I do know at least a little bit about things to look for.

Yeah but what does next years contract have to do with the QBs play right now. I don't give a Shanarat's azz about what type of contrct he get's next year. Trent is leading the team and at this point it's just as much the intangibles as it is his stats that are making a good QB.

So tell me Mr. Iowanian, What is the big picture we and the coaches should all be looking at?...............After trading a 1st round pick for Trent Green we should just let it be "pissed away" because Trent did play decent and might cost us a little more to keep him? I don't get it. I'm not saying Trent is a great HOF type QB but he is the best leader we've had behind center in a long time. He has heart, character and is very coachable. He's won over his teammates IMO. He's earned the right to be our guy for a few more years. IMO. And he's still improving......

PhilFree:arrow:

Actually, it wasn't me that asked for the list, and I don't care to respond to it. I've watched all those QB at one time or another, but I've not watched them to the extent that I've watched Green. Thus, I don't feel comfortable trying to make that comparison.

I'm not claiming objectivity here. I have my reasons for pumping Green up and supporting him. I'll admit that I'll likely do so regardless of his play. However, I think he's been playing much better this year than some here choose to give him credit for (I'm not pointing fingers at you Iowanian). I also think he's capable of playing even better and taking this team to an entirely new level. I'd love nothing more than to see Trent in a Chief's uniform for a long time, and see them have great success with him at the helm.

That's bullshit. The current coaching staff knows their job security goes through next season. If they could somehow see into the future and know that Green's knee is gonna collapse and he'll never play another day past 2003, I really don't think that would make a bit of difference to their willingness to resign him longterm.

Side Bar: These QB debates are really fun when both sides have enough ammo to actually have a debate.

PhilFree:arrow:

Agreed. :thumb:

Of course, I still think that Chiefs fan are notoriously hard on QBs(myself included at times). It seems that most fans will never be happy with who the Chiefs have under center.

MM
~~Would hate to be a QB in KC

You mean some throw to their receivers at a greater rate than Green.

That's bullshit. The current coaching staff knows their job security goes through next season. If they could somehow see into the future and know that Green's knee is gonna collapse and he'll never play another day past 2003, I really don't think that would make a bit of difference to their willingness to resign him longterm.

Do you really think the current staff cares THAT little about the team? You sound more bitter than reasonable.

newchief...my mistake on calling you by name. my appology.

So...I take you're either related to or aquantinces with Trent Green?

I suppose its similar to a parent of an average looking kid putting them in beauty contests and not understanding why the judges can be so biased.

Philfree,
as far as 'big picture'....If I were King Carl in the offseason.....I'd look at several mitigating circumstances relating to QB success as much as failure.
ex. If a proven QB has a horrible year, but is playing behind a poor oline and is sacked a bazillion times...he gets more leeway.

How would Green do without the threat of Priest Holmes behind him and as a relief valve.(it sure looks to me like he goes to his outlet pretty quickly) Why can't he get the ball to Johnny Morton who has historically been able to get open enough for such Quarterbacking supa-stahs as Scott Mitchell and Charlie Batch to hit for near 1000 yards....I'd look at the tape and see how many plays when he's dumped the ball to Holmes or 88, there WERE open WR down the field.
My feeling is that either by coaches choice, or his own doing(to minimize INTs) he is not taking chances down the field as often as this Offense would normally dictate.

With a solid Running game, and conservative passing routes...Trent Dilfer can win a superbowl........but it still doesn't make him worthy of Dan Marino Money.

I'm not completely against the Chiefs resigning Green...He can be affective...but imo, in the "big picture"....if the Coaches and management don't look for ways to improve EVERY position, they are doing the owner, and me as a fan a grave injustice. Its not difficult to say "we can't upgrade 88, 31, many of the Oline"...but if they don't look for ways to at least make those positions more productive through either scheme or personell changes....they aren't doing THEIR jobs.

it still baffles me why you can't relate the play of Green this year as relevant to contract negotiations for him next year.......the big picture for the KC Chiefs.

I was a Chief fan before this quarterback came along, and will be a fan long after he is gone...reguardless of his success/failure.

Iowanian, I'm sure the powers that be will look at every aspect of the team when the seasons over. Heck! They're probably doing it right now. And if they see a QB who is better suited to run the Chiefs offense I'm sure they will give it consideration. I would. But right now I don't know that there will be a QB better then Trent Green available. Exspecially if we're gonna try and get to the SuperBowl in DVs tenure. Do you have someone in mind?
As far as getting the ball to Morton as oppossed to dumping it off to Holmes. I think our biggest games on offense have come when Priest took those dump offs and did some serious damage. Maybe Trent was just making good decisions. Interestingly the last couple of games where we have been getting the ball to our WRs more we haven't scored as many points. And by the way since we have been trying to get the ball to our WRs more Trent has done so. The don't lose the game mentality that Dilfer played with in Baltimore is not even comparible to the scheme the Chiefs run. And the fact that we have tried to get the ball to our WRs more the last couple of weeks illustrates that our coaches are not having Green play with the same mentality as Dilfer's coaches had him do. They trust Green to run the offense and make the right decisions. IMO he's improving in that regard almost every game.
As far as Greens contract goes I don't think he's thinking about it right now. I don't think DV, Priest Holmes, Gonzo, Kennison, Will Shields or Willy Roaf are thinking about it either. I also think that Trent Green will be gald to negotiaote a far contract that will be more then cap friendly.
Also, after critiquing Trents defeciantcies why would we have to replace him with a different QB to fix them. Couldn't we just do it the DV way and keep identifying what needs to be improved upon and work to do so in the offseason. Or are you convinced tht Trent Green is as good as he's gonna get?

PhilFree:arrow:

I am glad to admit that I don't see Green making as many of the fundamental/mechanical flaws he made last year.....like throwing those ducks off his back foot falling away. I like seeing him throw the ball away instead of the INT's. The Repeated redzone INT's is what has specifically made me curse in Green's general Direction.

so yes...he still has room to eliminate fundamental flaws from his game....but I'm uncomfortable with a "30-something developing quarterback".....with a bad knee.

You don't think that Sanders/vermeil have some kind of reins on Green? I thought DV made it clear earlier in the season that they did....specifically to reduce INTs.....I could have been reading wrong when I was all high on that famous iowanian label crack.

I don't have a specific replacement in mind and haven't spent alot of time looking at available FAs. What I'd like to see is green resigned to a 3 year contract for a reasonable price and see the Chiefs take a shot on one of the plethora of QB's coming out this year....with the shear numbers, there will be some quality prospects in the middle rounds.

The Hawkeye in me would like to see Banks selected in round 4.(if he is available) but there are other prospects......and with the impending "franchise qb's" in this draft....there are bound to be a couple of veteran FA opportunities if Green isn't reasonable in his demand.

Again....I'm not calling for Green's head, i don't hate him and I won't be complaining Because/if he is resigned in KC...

That's reasonable:D

PhilFree:arrow:

Iowonian-

That was me that asked for the list. Haven't had time to catch up on the responses until now.

What do you base your preference of QB on? Green has developed into the leader of this team, and is respected by his teamates.

Of the 12 you listed, I would only take Favre or Bledsoe in a trade without having to think.

Brady is a possibility, but he didn't win the SuperBowl on his arm. New England won with a strong defense and adequate offense.

Garcia is a possibility, but has comparable numbers. Why switch?

Gannon is having a better statistical year than any full time starter, but is too old and I don't see him passing downfield. He's great and the dink and dunk.

Brooks, McNabb, Warner, Brees, Vick, and Culpepper are having worse years statistically than Green.

We could argue the pros and cons of each one of these. But instead of everyone pointing out the small mistakes of one of our best playes, lets concentrate on our weekness (STILL OUR DEFENSE).

EVERY player on the Chiefs should be criticized every week if we go by most of what's been said here by the bashers. Priest Holmes fumble cost us the game in New England, but he certainly didn't get much criticism on this board. And I'm not going to do it because he creates much more positive than negative (same with Green).

Let's give "constructive criticism" about something that will actually help if we change (Linebacker play, cornerback play, lack of pass rush, poor play calling, etc..). Changing QB's next year would be a huge mistake, and YES I think Green deserves top 10 money.

These keep fucking doubting threads should resemble this one. Otherwise they aren't funny.

THANK YOU!

I hate it when people use the joke, but don't "use" the joke.

How about this?

Keep fucking doubting that I'm going to go to the bar at 9:00 AM tomorrow, after my last final of my undergrad years lets out.

Does that work? ;)

So long as you follow it up in the thread with:

:thumb:

Thanks Jim...

It's like a mad lib... It was such a joke the first time, and now we cen reuse it over and over and over until our sides split. The original post was so incredibly brainless that it's timeless...

Sorry...I guess I'm not quite ready for the big leagues yet. I'll keep working on it.

I think I'm supposed to drink a 7up and throw a Jersey at you or something....

Trent Green rules. Pure and simple.

Nice name....I will never forget that naked boot against the Cards. Watching him run was painful. Welcome to the board.

Hey, thanks.

Bono is my all-time favorite Chief!

BTW, is there a way to change my title?

You mean from rookie? I think you have to have at least 50 or 100 posts something like that to change it. ;)

50! :cuss:

Welcome aboard. If Bono is your alltime favorite, you must be fairly young cuz there are a lot of other choices. No offense....

Your title will change from Rookie to Starter at 30 posts. From Starter to Veteran at 1000 posts and from Veteran to MVP at 5000 posts. However, most people customize the title when the option appears in their profile at 100 posts.

Thanks for the info.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think he was the greatest player. I just liked him for some reason. It actually has a lot to do with the 76-yard TD jaunt. Kinda hard to explain.

Yup, you have to start somewhere. I will be getting close to 500 posts soon but am pretty far down on the totem pole. It is a good place just kind of dive in. If you are interested in BB you will have a lot of posts in no time.

Cool - no harm in liking a player for a particular play. There are tons of Dante Hall fans for the jockstraps he left on the field in the Denver loss.

How did you find us, BR?

A fellow KC fan pointed me here. Some of you probably know him well, at least I think he used to post here.

You are already 5% there. ROFL

Six now. :D

Ah - who? If I know him, maybe I'll hook you up with your title of choice.

I don't know his Planet handle, sorry.

Would his name.... mmmmm..... happen to beeeeeeee.....

gocheeeeefs???

Hahahahaha.... busted!!! ROFL ROFL ROFL

When you do find that friend again, have him bring over a 2x4 and smack you HARD all about the head and face with it for choosing that user name!:cuss:

I mean, seriously.... How many damn fans does Bono have? I knew it had to be a relative or some other goofus. Check out the birthdays for Dec. 31st.

Like I said I don't know his user name. He never said if he was gocheefs or whatever...you have my bday wrong BTW.

You freaking MORON. I knew it was you by your second post. When you signed up, you filled out Dec. 31st, 1981 - same damn day as gochiefs, then you changed it to 1974 or something to hide it. I get an email when you sign up, dude. You choose Oh No Bono as your favorite player? But, your email address implys that Montana is your favorite. Same posting style as gochiefs. The answers to every question are all very curious. You have a new IP but same ISP. I'm not an idiot.

You can stay. I'll even change your name to something other than Bono. I told you that you'd have to get a new name and new IP to get back on. You've done that.

There are two conditions:
1. Two mundane (non-chiefs related) threads per day.
2. Complete respect shown at all times for our female posters. You seemed to have a little trouble with that the last time.

If you don't agree, leave now and save us the trouble.

The irony of this all kills me....Of all threads to give a guy a second chance who ROYALY screwed up to the point he was nearly despised......ROFL

I think you have me confused with someone else, Phobia. Is it possible he also signed up last night?

I am not this gocheefs person. Please don't confuse us.

LMAO - ok. It is not possible that I'm confused. I presume that you won't be exibiting any of the behavior that got gochiefs banned, then.

I think he should be banned just on the basis of his screen name.

Bono? As in Steve Bono?

:shake:

Oh never mind, I see Phil has been messing with him.

That's what I get for not reading before I post.

No doubt. Who does he think he's kidding?

If he's not kidding he sould definitely be banned....%(/

I'm hoping he means Sonny Bono

RIP




Anyone else driven on the "Sonny Bono Memorial Expressway" or whatever it's called? Stretch of I-10 in California. I know it's bad, but I almost drove off the road (into a tree, if you will) from laughing too hard when I saw the sign.

What a dumdass.............:shake:

Kinda fitting that we are having a changing identity discussion on Recker24 errr ChiefsPride errr R&GPride's thread. :D

Is it just me or does that avatar look like a #17 jersey? Bono was #13. This guy must be more of an idiot than originally thought.

Yeah it is #17........WTF is that ?????

Yea GOfigure:rolleyes:

I always wondered why everyone was always bagging on Gochiefs. I guess I must've missed all the fun. :eek:

Dude was/is a LOSER........Was fun to smack around, when you were bored.....

I believe the proper ChiefsPlanet term is 'looser'...

Carry on.

Let the guy play.

You obviously haven't seen the picture of his bedroom he voluntarily posted. It's a creepy mix between serial killer and Dungeon & Dragon freak. Jeffery Dauhmer look out, here comes GoChief!