This smells like a counter-move to some tampering. Like the reports got out we were close, and some team reached out to his agent and let them know they were ready to back up the truck, and suddenly we weren't so close anymore.

We could do far worse than Brett Veach.

He’s done a pretty masterful job to this point of putting together a team to complement the Dorsey core.

But he hasn’t ever had to build the core himself.

As that Hall of Fame core that Dorsey left him continues to leave or age out, we’re going to start to find out if he’s truly an elite GM or just an ok one.

I’m guessing we get a 3rd rounder like Sneed.

He's the main reason we have Mahomes, and no matter how many times that gets explained to reeruns like yourself, you still don't get it.

He was the scout on Mahomes. Dorsey was the one that had final say on the matter and had to listen to his scout, and execute the trade up to select him.

Dorsey gets the credit because he was the GM at the time.

By your logic, every great pick Veach has made is because of the scout on that player and not Brett.

Who YOU give credit to is irrelevant. You're one of the dumbest mother****ers here. Completely irrelevant.

It's crystal clear who Andy and the organization give credit to, and it's the guy that's the GM of the best organization in football, not the guy that can't even hold a GM job any ****ing where.

Of course the organization is going to give credit to their current GM and not someone who works for a different franchise.

(Btw, Dorsey is currently a Senior personnel exec with Detroit, and has helped orchestrate one of the most impressive roster overhauls in recent memory up there. So it appears he can still hold a job.)

Let’s call a spade a spade. The “Veach discovered Mahomes” stuff that was pushed like crazy when he took the job was clearly a state propaganda campaign to endear a new unproven GM to the fanbase.

Yes he was the scout on Mahomes and yes he deserves a chunk of credit, but that story was pushed relentlessly and clearly for that purpose. And that’s fine, I have no problem with that and am not surprised the Chiefs did that.

I think Brett has largely done a great job and has done enough on his own merits that we don’t need to try and act like Dorsey had nothing to do with Mahomes in order to prop up Veach anymore.

But the dismissal of Dorsey having anything to do with our success is ridiculous and borderline disrespectful. Even if we say Mahomes was all Veach, he still drafted Kelce, Jones and Hill. We likely aren’t winning shit without those 3. We certainly would not have 3 rings.

Dorsey put together a hell of a core that’s led us to an amazing run and Veach has complement it masterfully.

I’m looking forward to seeing how Veach is able to replace those guys going forward before I crown him Howie Roseman.

McDuffie, Creed, Rice and Worthy are currently/will be blue chippers.

Norizik on the bench Trey way coming back. I won!

I like Veach but that is true.

Veach took over a roster with 4 HOF players on it.


He traded away Hill.

Kelce aging out.

Jones has 2-3 years left.

And then had the greatest draft in franchise history while winning the next 2 SB's in large part with a defense he built, but yea, leave that part out.

****ing moron.

What you say makes no sense because they literally fired Dorsey and hired Veach shortly after. It's not as if their actions don't support who they give the credit to. Not to mention, Texas Tech and Mahomes team also gave Veach the credit. Are they in on it too dumbass?

The dude came out there before Pat even played a meaningful snap and told the entire national media that Patrick Mahomes was the best player he's ever seen. Did John Dorsey do that? No, because there wasn't a single person in that building that believed in Mahomes more than Veach. He absolutely sold them too, but he knew this guy was going to be the best ever before he even played a meaningful snap, you can live in fantasy land all you want and pretend that doesn't mean anything.

There is some weapons grade stupidity on display today folks.

Agreed. He’s done great in those spots.

I’m really looking forward to watching Worthy and Rashee the next couple years. Think they have a chance to be one of the top few receiving duos in the league.

If John Dorsey is here we probably don’t have 3 rings. We might not even have 2.

Veach’s 2021/2022 drafts were critical to winning back-to-back SB’s and I don’t think Dorsey trades Tyreek. Based on his history he massively overpays him $30+ million and we all want him fired for it.

Paying Smith is only a problem if we still have a gaping hole at LT in September. Miss me with all of the rest of this nonsense.

This is a problem I have as well.



/WOKKA WOKKA WOKKA!!!

He’s getting traded, only thing that makes sense with this move.

They fired Dorsey because his working relationship with Reid had deteriorated after he pissed off Maclin among other things.

It’s not like they fired him because they felt that Veach had to be the GM because he scouted and banged the drum for the QB they picked.

Again, every scout in the organization has guys they feel strongly about and go to the GM banging the drum for.

That doesn’t mean we go, “Yeah Brett Veach picked Trent McDuffie, but we can’t really give him credit for that because John Doe in scouting was the one who brought him to Brett and pounded the table for him. John Doe is the one who deserves the credit. Not Veach who took his advice and traded up above Buffalo to get him.”

Anyway, I’m not going to change your mind. I’m not here to bash Veach. But the insane reaction to me giving credit to a GM for picking a player is pretty funny. Maybe have a beer or a smoke.

Idk about you but I am for one am mad the team that's made the last 3 players kept one of the best players at their respective position

I’ve said Veach deserves credit. He’s made all the right moves around the core that Dorsey put together.

I’m just saying that Dorsey does deserve some credit for drafting us four hall of famers. Which some people here are strangely hostile about refusing to give him,

2022 was a great draft but completely irrelevant to the discussion about HOF players.

I think I'm with you Billay, but I'm gonna need this in English.

The discussion is about Veach and the job he's done you disingenuous bundle of sticks.

Interesting hypothetical.


Totally unknown.


Veach did a great job bolstering the 4 HOF players he started out with.


Small sample size but seems like Veach has more hits or good players and Dorsey had more home runs.

Why are you ignoring the part about Mahomes team and Texas Tech giving Veach the overwhelming majority of the credit as well?

Again, are they in on the lie with the Chiefs?

It's very easy to ignore facts that are inconvenient for your narrative/argument.

My post was about HOF players all came before Veach got here.


I realize reading is hard for you so move your lips and try it again.

I remember Veach saying he wanted Sneed to stay too and look how that turned out? The guy he never tagged is the one who got the deal in the end and history might repeat itself. Infact he's tagged Dee Ford and Sneed previously and what happened? Both got traded. I'm sure there are teams out there who would be willing to give up a pick to get Smith in the building. That's what I'm thinking right now tbh but we'll see. Cause If we can get rid of Tyreek then nothing will surprise me anymore.

Hate to say it but humphries is probably who they're rolling with. He was coming off of an ACL and had no off-season no conditioning he wasn't ready for full duty

I think Veach is going to be more aggressive than that.


Can't imagine he wants to roll the dice with a raw Kingsley and often injured Humphries as the solution to LT.

I think we trade for a vet or sign a $$$$ FA LT.

No, you just want to paint a narrative while ignoring context.

What exactly is the point in listing that he traded away Hill? He traded a HOF player and won SBs. You care more about having HOF guys on the roster or winning SBs?

Was the Tyreek trade a win or a loss? Let's hear your answer.

I realize this is really hard for you but HOF players or stars win SB's.

We started with 4 and will soon be down to 1 in the next two years.

Veach has been a great GM but he needs to hit on some stars in the next 3 drafts to keep us on top.

I guarantee I can find a post 18 months ago where you’ve claimed Veach can’t draft receivers.

Do you think it makes you a clueless fool because you’re now criticizing him for other things but patting him on the head for this? I’m pretty sure that’s exactly what it implies about your behavior.

Since you're avoiding my question, and you clearly value saying you have a HOF player over SBs, going to assume you don't beleive the Tyreek trade was a win for the Chiefs.

Thanks for proving that you're a ****ing idiot that nobody should take seriously.

Again of course.

Change your tampon.

Agreeing with everything the front office does doesn't make you a better fan.

I would argue it makes you a worse one.

This is what I've been saying about the whiny bitch crowd.

They get to bitch endlessly, be wrong far more often than not, but there'a zero accountability. If only there were as critical of themselves as they are the best organization in football.

The number of HOF > the number of rings

This is a wild concept, but opinions can change when new evidence emerges.

You can maybe find a post like that from 18 months ago. But not a soul on this board was happy with his ability to draft receivers 18 months ago when the track record was Mecole Hardman and Skyy Moore.

He’s done a great job with Rashee and Worthy.

I guess I could double down and insist he still can’t draft receivers. But that would be even stupider.

We don't win any of those SB's if we weren't loaded with elite players dumbass.

We are approaching having only Mahomes left as a HOF player in his prime.


If we just hit singles or doubles next 3 drafts we will still be a good team but probably will be outclassed in future SB's, AFC Championships once Jones exits.

Many people like myself tried to explain to morons like yourself that the issue wasn't that he couldn't draft WRs, but that the Chiefs hadn't taken enough shots. Funny how they take two shots the next two years and go 2 for 2.

Did you learn anything though?

Clearly not.

Again, did the Chiefs wig big with the Tyreek trade?

This is a very simple question.

Your answer is no, and you're embarrassed to say it LMAO

The trade absolutely worked out. But your position that they could not have won in 2022 or 2023 with Tyreek is just speculation.


The point is they could afford to do that because they still had 3 HOF elite players at QB, TE, and DT.


Tyreek is gone so they can't do that again.

Kelce aged out.

Jones exiting in 2 or 3 years.


That's just the reality and patting yourself on the back for a move you had nothing to do with does nothing to address what I said.


;)

I didn't ask you if the trade worked out.

I asked you specifically if they won big.

You keep talking about HOF players and ignoring that he turned around and draft a guy that might not be a HOF player after year 3 (WHO THE **** IS?), but he's a top 3 CB, and a blue chipper.

Blue chippers also win SBs, and some of them get in the HOF because of it.

seems like a lot but i'm a dumbass on the internet, Veach has earned the benefit of the doubt for sure

McDuffie is a star
Creed is the best C in the NFL..but he plays C
Rice was looking like a star WR before he got hurt
Worthy is looking like DeSean Jackson.

Would also argue Karlaftis is very good and is flirting with being a star.

Veach has drafted some really good players

I think McDuffie is the biggest hit of recent drafts so getting him in the Tyreek trade was enormous.


I think much of the draft is also luck as well as skill but in any case we need a few more home runs.


Veach knows it too.

We can't put Rashee Rice and Xavier Worthy in the HOF so we get to pretend the Chiefs trades Tyreek and are STILL looking to replace that HOF talent!

LMAO

The Chiefs traded away Tyreek and they're sitting here with an absolutely dynamic young duo and the best young WR duo they've ever had. But sure, because we can't put them in the HOF after their rookie and second year, we get to cry about not having enough HOF players for the future. Such a stupid ****ing argument.

You've been pretending for 2 years that Rashee Rice isn't a homerun.

You're pretending Xavier Worthy wasn't a homerun.

They both led us to SBs as rookie WR1s, and had fantastic playoff perfomances in the process. They were absolutely homeruns.

My post isn't even just KC related. This his how the NFL and dynasties work.


There is a reason that every dynasty ends. The core or stars eventually ages out and are not replaced at the same level.


We are fighting gravity. So far we have been winning but every dynasty eventually ends.


Best case scenario is that a few of our recent draft hits are even better than we think or get even better and we land another star or two in next 3 drafts and we go another insane run.

Uhh. Well, you do realize that this team is pretty young overall, right? So this entire argument is kinda silly.

Just because Dorsey's guys are at the end of their careers doesn't make Dorsey better. He's just been gone for several years.

Never said Dorsey was better.


Dorsey had more home runs and Veach had more singles and doubles.


Both GM's contributed to the Dynasty.

WFT? WHY???

Swing and a miss by Veach unless we can trade him. Then it's a nice W.

What if McDuffie, Rice, or Worthy become HOF'ers? We don't know. Could totally happen. Way too soon to tell. Which is my point.

Sure.


I hope it happens.


I doubt Tyreek or Kelce were considered HOF quality after their first year by anyone.

Voice of reason here.

The Patriots weren’t littered with Hall Of Famers during either of their dynasty runs.

Having the HOFers creates greater room for error at the other positions, but make no mistake, Mahomes is what makes this thing go.

Rashee Rice in 23 games:

1,488 yards
10 TD’s

Xavier Worthy in 19 games:

925 yards
9 TD’s

Assuming Rashee’s injury is fine, these guys are gonna be ****ing good together. One of the best receiving dou’s in football

Nice! Guards are really going to help those two run up the middle on play action!

No, moron. The issue is not knowing what the front office is doing in totality and making judgments about it. That makes you a worse fan and an idiot and a BWillie.

Love this!

Next we sign him long term, restructure Mahomes, and extend Thuney.

It's not about an ability to change a view when new evidence emerges, but nice try shifting that goalpost.

It's about a history of being negative and wrong and continuing that streak here. Is this really hard for you to understand? Are you not the guy who claimed Veach was a fraud and should be fired? And also claimed he can't draft receivers? And now you're satisfied with what he did - and what you were wrong about - so you've pivoted to something else to bitch about?

This is another wild concept, but you have been negative and wrong on this forum more than you've been right. No?

I am often wrong, yes.

Not sure what I’m being negative about here though?

there's always a possibility that we're not the only team that needs a LT and the 2 decent ones in free agency will sign elsewhere. And if you let Trey Smith go then you would have problems at guard and LT and that would be even worse.

Trey smiths pff grade puts him middle of the road guard. Paying a mid tier guard the highest money in the nfl for a team that has no lt. I’m not sure what the plan is.

We almost have to go all out for josh Simmons trading up to whatever spot we think we can get him if he slides past 16-18 range

Trey smith is also a run blocker and we rarely run. We need pass blocking offensive linemen.

There are some folks around here that are immediately negative about every single move the team makes. Always.

Rinse and repeat.

And then we go to Super Bowls every year.

But still, these folks will bitch all off-season.

PFF often has Mahomes middle of the road. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Kelce was a bust after his first year. I read it right here on CP.

Yes but Trey didn't pass the eyeball test all year either. We all saw him struggle most of this year and got hammered badly in the super bowl. Carter owned him.

One thing I know for sure - every time you hate a move, we win a Super Bowl.

So hate on, playa!

I think it usually puts Chris jokes and mahes and Humphrey as top guys in the league. But mahomes had bad line and WRs etc so he obv wasn’t the highest rated qb

Evaluating qb is harder because the position requires other players to preform well.

And offensive line man can be evaluated in isolation.

Any of you guys consider that maybe the plan is to add a Jackson or Robinson and just put the best possible offensive line they possibly can in front of Mahomes next season?

Can you not see a path where since you have two WR budding stars on rookie deals, and Kelce, Thuney, and Taylor are all on the way out?

It's like you guys are thinking checkers when it's chess.

Yes.

I like what is happening early for our CHIEFS. Yes, Kelce coming back and a long term deal with Trey Smith is awesome! If they can lock up Thuney then all we need is a LT to complete the deal. We can't pursue Stanley - that would be ridiculous. So, move up in the draft to get the LT you desire - we are not getting Will Campbell so what about Josh Simmons or Josh Conerly Jr.? Do not know what the CHIEFS are willing to do if they need to move up but, I think they will do what they need to to get that coveted LT we need. Just .02 :thumb:

Yes, BUT, they are not going out THIS upcoming season. So why not make the run 1 more time before this happens? :shrug:

I think every season is a run for the Super Bowl.

Of course it is - I just don't see the worry right NOW for this upcoming season. Yes, Kelce, Thuney, and Taylor are all on the way out is inevitable but that is not in the here and now. That is for a next season outlook and not this season's worries is all I am saying. :thumb:

I wouldn't want another GM - Veach is great. And drafting well is only one part of the gig, the fact that this team has been to 5 Super Bowls under his guidance is a hell of a testament. There is an art to team construction. Our defense winning Super Bowls, dude, that's Veach. I bean besides Jones, those are his dudes, his moves, his hires. If you would have told me in 2017 and 2018 that the Chiefs would go to 5 Super Bowls and that the defense was a main reason, I wouldn't believe you.

This desire to run Veach down is a stupid exercise. Ifs ****ing easy and fun to be a contrarian. Any idiot can do that. LT has been a constant headache. I get it. But nobody is prepared to lose both starting tackles late in the season. I don't care who you are. OBJ Jr. was a good move at the time, and he was correct to let him walk.

Here is the thing with Kingsley and Morris. If those two find starting rolls and pan out, Veach is going to look really good. And for as bad as the Super Bowl was, we sure love bitching about a one loss season. Veach has to get creative, I think that's why we are tagging Smith. We can keep him or move him. I like the move.

IF ONLY BLEENT VARCH CUD DRAFT WE WOULDA ONE ALL 6 OF THE LAST SUPER BOLLS BECAUSE ARE ROSTER WAS FREEKING LOADED!!

WHAT A LOOSER RHETT BLEACH IS!! SO SICK OF THAT DAM MORAN!! :banghead: