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-   -   Football Aiyuk to the Steelers? (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=354392)

ChiliConCarnage 08-07-2024 06:31 PM

Anybody sign this piece of shit yet?

This is taking forever to finalize if true

Mosbonian 08-08-2024 06:21 AM

I wonder if Aiyuk is finding out that the market for receivers is limited and not many teams want to pay big bucks for him....and that the 49er's are finding that out too.

And the Steelers have realized it and decided that they don't want to pay the asking price on top of the salary?

Sassy Squatch 08-08-2024 07:00 AM

49ers and Patriots had agreed to trade terms and Patriots had an offer on the table for well over 30 million per year. Aiyuk turned them down. Steelers know they're the only team in this negotiation with a chance to land him currently and aren't willing to bid against themselves.

O.city 08-08-2024 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch (Post 17621123)
49ers and Patriots had agreed to trade terms and Patriots had an offer on the table for well over 30 million per year. Aiyuk turned them down. Steelers know they're the only team in this negotiation with a chance to land him currently and aren't willing to bid against themselves.

Aiyuk wants to get paid top dollar AND be on a legit SB team.

Sorry buddy, ain't working like that for ya.

Sassy Squatch 08-08-2024 07:26 AM

Not really? We publicly know of two teams he wants to go to. Commanders or Steelers. Hardly Super Bowl contenders.

Marcellus 08-08-2024 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17620377)
When we do that with Hardman "he's a worthless gadget player who can only get yards when you design a play to get him the football..."

When the 49ers do that with Deebo he's better than Aiyuk and an elite offensive weapon.

I am...puzzled.

Do gadget yards count or not, fellas?

We really comparing Hardman to a guy who had a season (16 game season) with almost 2,000 combined yards, 1400 of them receiving, and 15 total TD's? Really we doing that?

He had 12 total TDs last year in 15 games as well.

Come on man.

O.city 08-08-2024 07:43 AM

Deebo is a glorified RB that gets his yards around the LOS. He's a good player, but he's not really a guy you want at WR in a traditional offense.

staylor26 08-08-2024 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 17621157)
We really comparing Hardman to a guy who had a season (16 game season) with almost 2,000 combined yards, 1400 of them receiving, and 15 total TD's? Really we doing that?

He had 12 total TDs last year in 15 games as well.

Come on man.

You're missing the point entirely dude.

And if it's all about production, why don't you post Aiyuk and Deebo's stats the last couple of years? :hmmm:

RunKC 08-08-2024 07:50 AM

Deebo is a lot like Rice. Great YAC ability, gadget role can be used with hmm, but he’s not gonna burn DB’s deep very often.

He’s not a good route runner either. McDuffie was running his routes for him in the SB. That’s embarrassing for a WR

ThaVirus 08-08-2024 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17620352)
Wait - this is a real debate?.

Yes. I wouldn’t argue that Aiyuk isn’t the more prototypical WR. He is 6’ with a 6’8” wingspan. If he didn’t have such mediocre speed I’d say he was basically created in a lab to be a WR.

But when you’re asking “who’s the better WR?”, you can’t just hand waive a bunch of elite qualities Deebo has that makes him the better player overall.

The argument doesn’t need to be rehashed here but bullet points:

-Aiyuk is clearly the fourth option on a star-studded offense, behind Deebo.

-Deebo’s last two seasons, when Aiyuk rose to prominence, have been marred by injury (not a coincidence, IMO).

-Deebo has a 1,400 receiving yard season under his belt. You don’t get that by catching a bunch of dump offs and swing passes all season. He can clearly run big boy routes and separate.

The major issue with this debate is simply timing, I think. Deebo has been heavily injured the last two seasons and Aiyuk is coming off of a career year. At their best, I think Deebo is the better player and I think many would agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17620377)
When we do that with Hardman "he's a worthless gadget player who can only get yards when you design a play to get him the football..."

When the 49ers do that with Deebo he's better than Aiyuk and an elite offensive weapon.

I am...puzzled.

Do gadget yards count or not, fellas?

I’ve actually come around on Hardman. He’s helped us win three Super Bowls now. He is a bit of a disappointment but ultimately a pretty decent 2nd round pick overall.

Though I will say that the cases are different. Deebo has been a stud for San Fran since his rookie year. He’s clearly a leader on his team to this day.

Meanwhile Hardman struggled to crack the starting lineup. He did come in behind Tyreek and Sammy at WR in addition to basically being the fifth option after Kelce and whichever RB we were starting so I’ll give him some leeway there. But even when Sammy was hurt and/or left the team/RBs came and went, it seemed like the coaches turned to Pringle and Robinson more than Hardman.

They’ve both got injury concerns but for different reasons so it’s kind of a wash there.

Hardman also has a career year of 693 receiving yards to Deebo’s 1,405. In additions to that 1,400 receiving yards, Deebo contributed 350 rushing yards and 8 rushing TDs. At his best, Hardman really was just an elite gadget guy who might be good for an occasional big catch downfield once every few games while Deebo was a featured weapon.

staylor26 08-08-2024 08:33 AM

Quote:

Aiyuk is clearly the fourth option on a star-studded offense, behind Deebo.
He's been their leading receivier the last 2 years, so no matter how many times you say this, it's not remotely true.

There's not a single WR1 on any team that is their "fourth option".

It is embarrassing that you would try to argue that he's behind Kittle too. That's just ****ing reeruned.

O.city 08-08-2024 08:50 AM

The 9ers had Deebo in the backfield alot the past few years. He's never been a traditional WR.

staylor26 08-08-2024 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17621242)
The 9ers had Deebo in the backfield alot the past few years. He's never been a traditional WR.

"But but but versatility!"

O.city 08-08-2024 08:57 AM

Don't get me wrong, I like Deebo. Good player, would love him here with Andy.

But if I want a WR that can really run a route and get open? Nah.

Sassy Squatch 08-08-2024 08:58 AM

Not sure why we're hand waving away the durability issue. It's a constant issue with him.

staylor26 08-08-2024 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch (Post 17621250)
Not sure why we're hand waving away the durability issue. It's a constant issue with him.

It's almost as if his skill set is less valuable because he has to take more of a pounding, like a RB.

mr. tegu 08-08-2024 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus (Post 17621208)
-Deebo has a 1,400 receiving yard season under his belt. You don’t get that by catching a bunch of dump offs and swing passes all season. He can clearly run big boy routes and separate.

Besides that being a huge outlier season for him, that’s literally exactly what they were. Over 50% of his 1400 receiving yards, 768, were YAC that season. His average depth of catch, 8.3, was LESS than his average YAC, 10.

In that same offense this past season Aiyuk had 1342 yards but only 382 YAC. His depth of catch was 12.8. A Quick Look at other top receivers guys shows similar percentages for YAC and depth of target on big seasons.

staylor26 08-08-2024 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. tegu (Post 17621257)
Besides that being a huge outlier season for him, that’s literally exactly what they were. Over 50% of his 1400 receiving yards, 768, were YAC that season. His average depth of catch, 8.3, was LESS than his average YAC, 10.

In that same offense this past season Aiyuk had 1342 yards but only 382 YAC. His depth of catch was 12.8. A Quick Look at other top receivers guys shows similar percentages for YAC and depth of target on big seasons.

This is why him continuing to bring up his 1,400 yard season is reeruned. No, having a 1,400 yard season under his belt does not automatically mean he's a route runner that can separate consistently. Imagine being that ****ing lazy to think you can just point to 1,400 yards and think you proved something.

ToxSocks 08-08-2024 09:13 AM

I imagine the 49ers will be parting ways with Deebo after the season. So acting like its an either or thing, "which would you rather keep" is kinda meh. I expect them both gone. He carries a $24M cap charge next season.

Hoover 08-08-2024 09:13 AM

I think it’s crazy that the 49ers have one year left in their window with a cheap rookie QB and instead of every being on board to win a Super Bowl, they are demanding trades or holding out for big contracts. We are blessed. Hell the Chris Jones crap last year sucked but wasn’t this bad.

DJ's left nut 08-08-2024 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. tegu (Post 17621257)
Besides that being a huge outlier season for him, that’s literally exactly what they were. Over 50% of his 1400 receiving yards, 768, were YAC that season. His average depth of catch, 8.3, was LESS than his average YAC, 10.

In that same offense this past season Aiyuk had 1342 yards but only 382 YAC. His depth of catch was 12.8. A Quick Look at other top receivers guys shows similar percentages for YAC and depth of target on big seasons.

Yeah - those are the dangers of statline scouting.

I think all of us have seen Deebo play a fair bit, no? I've seen probably 4-6 games with him.

And no, he's not a route runner. He's average to slightly below in that regard. As was noted previously, Trent McDuffie was absolutely eating his lunch because McDuffie could read his breaks like a book. And that's who he's pretty much always been.

He's a gadget player, pure and simple. And again, I never said he's not a damn nice offensive weapon (when healthy) but that doesn't make him more valuable for probably 3/4 of the teams in the league because they lack the offensive creativity to utilize him.

Meanwhile every team in the league can use Aiyuk at a high level because even a team with an iffy QB can feed a physical dude like Aiyuk (see the Cassel/Bowe connection).

And with Aiyuk's style, I think he'll even age pretty well. Whereas Deebo has already declined and will only continue to do so.

If the 49ers could dump Deebo's $21 million in guaranteed salary (to say nothing of the void years and $12 million in pro-rated charges) and use that to retain Aiyuk, I think they'd do it in a heartbeat. And that's with a team that DOES know how to use him.

But they needed him when they gave him that extension. And figured they could ride out Aiyuk and Williams. Trent really REALLY ****ed them here.

O.city 08-08-2024 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoover (Post 17621277)
I think it’s crazy that the 49ers have one year left in their window with a cheap rookie QB and instead of every being on board to win a Super Bowl, they are demanding trades or holding out for big contracts. We are blessed. Hell the Chris Jones crap last year sucked but wasn’t this bad.

The thing is....you could see all this coming. I'm not sure what they thought was gonna happen.

O.city 08-08-2024 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17621288)
Yeah - those are the dangers of statline scouting.

I think all of us have seen Deebo play a fair bit, no? I've seen probably 4-6 games with him.

And no, he's not a route runner. He's average to slightly below in that regard. As was noted previously, Trent McDuffie was absolutely eating his lunch because McDuffie could read his breaks like a book. And that's who he's pretty much always been.

He's a gadget player, pure and simple. And again, I never said he's not a damn nice offensive weapon (when healthy) but that doesn't make him more valuable for probably 3/4 of the teams in the league because they lack the offensive creativity to utilize him.

Meanwhile every team in the league can use Aiyuk at a high level because even a team with an iffy QB can feed a physical dude like Aiyuk (see the Cassel/Bowe connection).

And with Aiyuk's style, I think he'll even age pretty well. Whereas Deebo has already declined and will only continue to do so.

If the 49ers could dump Deebo's $21 million in guaranteed salary (to say nothing of the void years and $12 million in pro-rated charges) and use that to retain Aiyuk, I think they'd do it in a heartbeat. And that's with a team that DOES know how to use him.

But they needed him when they gave him that extension. And figured they could ride out Aiyuk and Williams. Trent really REALLY ****ed them here.

Once Trent's GTD money was out, I'm not sure what they thought would happen. He's always been a guy that's about the $.

It's just a prime example of why you've just gotta capitalize and when them when you have your chances because....well this is hard and there's alot of moving parts.

DJ's left nut 08-08-2024 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToxSocks (Post 17621273)
I imagine the 49ers will be parting ways with Deebo after the season. So acting like its an either or thing, "which would you rather keep" is kinda meh. I expect them both gone. He carries a $24M cap charge next season.

Feels like the 49ers pissed Aiyuk off.

My understanding was they offered him around $26 million at one point this off-season and he declined.

What I don't understand is WHY he's pissed at them. He had a breakout in year 3 but took another big step forward in year 4. No, they didn't offer him a big extension after his 3rd year (hindsight that was a major mistake for them) but in so doing they did him a favor. He's worth a shitload more now than he'd have been had he signed after year 3.

And surely he's not cranky about them picking up his 5th year option - that was a no-brainer and every team in the league would've done it.

So when they came to him after year 4 and offered him a deal that puts him in the top 10 highest paid WRs - even if he decides that isn't enough - why the angst?

Because they absolutely could extend him and move on from Deebo after this year. But for whatever reason, he's just not interested.

DJ's left nut 08-08-2024 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17621298)
Once Trent's GTD money was out, I'm not sure what they thought would happen. He's always been a guy that's about the $.

It's just a prime example of why you've just gotta capitalize and when them when you have your chances because....well this is hard and there's alot of moving parts.

Best I can figure is that it's similar to Jones in that they maybe feel blindsided by it? Maybe they expected him to come to them earlier in the year rather than just wait until camp and hold-out.

I know that was my biggest issue with what Jones did last season. He waited until after the draft and FA to stomp his feet. And I understand why a player/agent does that - it's a leverage thing.

But it's also kinda dirty pool if you're also hoping to build a championship squad.

O.city 08-08-2024 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17621307)
Best I can figure is that it's similar to Jones in that they maybe feel blindsided by it? Maybe they expected him to come to them earlier in the year rather than just wait until camp and hold-out.

I know that was my biggest issue with what Jones did last season. He waited until after the draft and FA to stomp his feet. And I understand why a player/agent does that - it's a leverage thing.

But it's also kinda dirty pool if you're also hoping to build a championship squad.

Hindsight and all but....as a GM you just gotta kinda bite your bullet and go to them right?

I don't blame a player for using whatever leverage they can drum up, but yeah, it can really **** with the mojo of the team. Just always seems the smart thing to get out in front as much as possible, maybe sometimes that just can't happen.

Sassy Squatch 08-08-2024 09:27 AM

Whatever it was happened a while ago. His circle was already talking about him wanting to go elsewhere even during the postseason run IIRC.

DJ's left nut 08-08-2024 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch (Post 17621315)
Whatever it was happened a while ago. His circle was already talking about him wanting to go elsewhere even during the postseason run IIRC.

Oh no question. It almost had to have been between seasons 3 and 4.

And like I said, best I can figure is that he expected an extension after season 3 and the 49ers didn't offer it.

But in the end that turned out to be the best thing for him. He'll make probably $12-15 million more over the life of a deal he signs now than he'd have made had he signed after 2023.

Seems like an odd thing to be mad about.

O.city 08-08-2024 09:33 AM

He's a WR. Are you ever surprised when they do this goofy shit?

O.city 08-08-2024 09:34 AM

I've pretty much decided I'd not ever wanna pay one of these top end guys. Go the Tyreek and the Chiefs route and just trade him for a haul and move on.

Red Dawg 08-08-2024 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17621331)
I've pretty much decided I'd not ever wanna pay one of these top end guys. Go the Tyreek and the Chiefs route and just trade him for a haul and move on.

If the Bengals were smart and truly believe that Joe is a difference maker, they would trade Chase for a haul and use the high picks on DL and OL.

Sassy Squatch 08-08-2024 09:37 AM

May just not want to play under Shanahan longer than he has to. Public knowledge they've been at odds in the past. Aiyuk may just be one of those dudes that takes it personally.

DJ's left nut 08-08-2024 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Dawg (Post 17621334)
If the Bengals were smart and truly believe that Joe is a difference maker, they would trade Chase for a haul and use the high picks on DL and OL.

I think they’re smart and realize that Joe ISN’T a difference maker.

That’s why they’re hanging on to Higgins like grim death.

Dudes closer to Andy Dalton than Mahomes. Dalton built his rep acting as a JUGS machine for AJ Green. That’s what Burrow is gonna do as well.

Marcellus 08-08-2024 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 17621171)
You're missing the point entirely dude.

And if it's all about production, why don't you post Aiyuk and Deebo's stats the last couple of years? :hmmm:

The point wasn't about comparing those 2, I was simply pointing out the Hardman comparison is silly.

You guys have convinced me on the Aiyuk > Deebo argument, I just don't think the gap is particularly large even though they play very different roles.

Yards and TDs are yards and TDs whether you catch the ball and run 50 yards or catch the ball in the endzone 50 yards downfield.

Our most prolific pass catcher is a TE who gets the ball typically within 10 yards of the LOS. But he is a matchup nightmare and YAC machine and so is Deebo.

O.city 08-08-2024 10:04 AM

Hardmans value comes from manufactered touches, similar to Deebo.

That's all he was saying.

Deebo is being paid alot to be an "offensive weapon", not really a "WR". That's fine, but he's breaking down (broke down?) and having a traditional WR is alot more valuable.

rfaulk34 08-08-2024 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Dawg (Post 17621334)
If the Bengals were smart and truly believe that Joe is a difference maker, they would trade Chase for a haul and use the high picks on DL and OL.

They'd never do it because of the relationship between Joe and Ja'Marr but they should have done it with Higgins. I love Higgins but he was the expendable one.

rfaulk34 08-08-2024 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17621340)
I think they’re smart and realize that Joe ISN’T a difference maker.

That’s why they’re hanging on to Higgins like grim death.

Dudes closer to Andy Dalton than Mahomes. Dalton built his rep acting as a JUGS machine for AJ Green. That’s what Burrow is gonna do as well.

That's a really dumb take.

DJ's left nut 08-08-2024 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfaulk34 (Post 17621403)
That's a really dumb take.

Keep telling yourself that.

Through his age 27 season, Andy Dalton had been to 2 Pro Bowls and thrown for 14,750 yards and 99 TDs.

Through Burrows age 27 season Burrow has thrown for 14,000 yards and 93 TDs with a single Pro Bowl.

Through Mahomes age 27 season he'd thrown for 24,200 yards and 192 TDs. He'd made 5 Pro Bowls, 2 All Pro teams and won 2 Super Bowls (and Super Bowl MVPs).

Yes, Joe Burrow is far far FAR closer to Andy Dalton than he his Patrick Mahomes. The fact that you fellas keep trying to pretend otherwise is the real joke. Joe Burrow is barely playing the same sport as Mahomes.

DJ's left nut 08-08-2024 10:44 AM

Thought exercise:

In one hand you have Joe Burrow
In the other hand you have a coin with Andy Dalton on one side and Patrick Mahomes on the other. You get whichever guy it lands on.

You taking Burrow or are you flipping the coin?

Bengals fans are going to bend over backwards to convince themselves that they'd lock in Joe Burrow and be happy. They shouldn't because they'd be wrong. The 50/50 shot of getting Mahomes is worth the downside of Andy Dalton. He's just that much better than Burrow.

History won't remember Joe Burrow. At all. Less than it will Matthew Stafford; similar to how it remembers Carson Palmer. Maybe he stays healthy and has a Matt Ryan career.

Patrick Mahomes will be written into legend in this league. The gap between those two is simply immense.

ThaVirus 08-08-2024 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 17621216)
He's been their leading receivier the last 2 years, so no matter how many times you say this, it's not remotely true.

There's not a single WR1 on any team that is their "fourth option".

It is embarrassing that you would try to argue that he's behind Kittle too. That's just ****ing reeruned.

Ok, well, when you’re a DC in the NFL and you’re game planning for the 9ers, you can prioritize Aiyuk over Deebo and Kittle and see how well that works out for you.

I don’t think many teams would bother doing that. It’ll be CMC first, Deebo second, then Kittle, then Aiyuk because CMC, Deebo and Kittle have all demonstrated the ability to be game changers. Aiyuk can’t say the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. tegu (Post 17621257)
Besides that being a huge outlier season for him, that’s literally exactly what they were. Over 50% of his 1400 receiving yards, 768, were YAC that season. His average depth of catch, 8.3, was LESS than his average YAC, 10.

In that same offense this past season Aiyuk had 1342 yards but only 382 YAC. His depth of catch was 12.8. A Quick Look at other top receivers guys shows similar percentages for YAC and depth of target on big seasons.

2023 was also a huge outlier for Aiyuk as well. His targets went down from the previous year and yet he went for almost 400 more yards. He averaged nearly 5 yards more per catch than he did the year before.

That still leaves nearly 700 yards gained from just routes alone on the year for Deebo in 2021 too. For reference, we never once got 700 total yards out of Sammy, MVS or Hardman in a single season.

I’m actually glad you brought up the RAC, though. This ****ing guy Deebo AVERAGES 10 yards of RAC per reception. Am I the only one who recognizes how absurd that is? He’s going to give you a 1st down on every catch just from RAC alone. That’s so nasty. You all are seriously underrating just how dangerous he is with the football in his hands. There are running backs out there, who actually catch the vast majority of their passes at or behind the LoS, who don’t average 10 yards of RAC per reception. And I did the research on this debate a few weeks back so don’t remember with 100% confidence but I believe I found that that 10 yards of RAC per reception was actually maintained over his entire career. That is nutty.

8.3 yards average depth of target is actually pretty decent, by the way. That’s about spot on the ADoT for Keenan Allen over the last decade or so, who is known as a route technician.

Comparing their ADoT is pointless to me precisely because they’re in the same offense. They occupy different roles. MVS had a further ADoT last season than Rashee Rice. That doesn’t necessarily mean that MVS is a better route runner or better WR overall than Rashee.

In fact, I’d argue that it makes sense that a team with their three best offensive weapons being a RB, WR/RB hybrid RAC monster, and a TE would have a traditional WR see many opportunities in the deep and intermediate sections of the field.

Rausch 08-08-2024 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17621166)
Deebo is a glorified RB that gets his yards around the LOS. He's a good player, but he's not really a guy you want at WR in a traditional offense.

Kinda like how we got Rice the ball last year. Only Rice can stay healthy...

ThaVirus 08-08-2024 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 17621381)
Deebo is being paid alot to be an "offensive weapon", not really a "WR". That's fine, but he's breaking down (broke down?) and having a traditional WR is alot more valuable.

For the record, the debate was never who was more valuable or who would be prioritized with extension between Deebo and Aiyuk. Staylor and I both recognize that there are too many variables in those arguments to even broach that subject.

The argument was mostly over who was the better WR.

We know that Aiyuk is the prototypical X, the traditional WR. We know that Deebo is more of a bruiser WR/RB hybrid. All that on the table, who is the better player? Personally, I think it’s Deebo because Deebo is a lot better at doing the things Aiyuk does than Aiyuk is at doing the things Deebo does.

My best comparison was a QB debate with a dual-threat QB like Lamar vs a traditional pocket passer like Dak. I don’t think many would disagree with the idea that Dak is a much better traditional pocket passer. He’s better at doing all of the things you’d look for in a typical QB. At the same time, you can’t discredit the abilities Lamar brings with his legs. All in all, I think most would agree that Lamar is the better QB.

ThaVirus 08-08-2024 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch (Post 17621444)
Kinda like how we got Rice the ball last year. Only Rice can stay healthy...

For the record, Rashee’s ADoT last season was 4.8 yards to Deebo’s 8.3. So there is a pretty significant difference between the two’s usage.

Either way, I think it just makes sense when you’ve got a guy so lethal with the ball in his hands. We know that the further downfield the target is, generally speaking, there’s a lower chance of completing the pass. I think offensive gurus like Reid and Shanahan understand that. If I want the ball in a guy’s hands at all costs, I’m probably going to create a gameplan that revolves around the short passing game because it should translate into more opportunities for him to get the ball in his hands and make a play.

That doesn’t necessarily mean that Rice or Samuel can’t run good routes or create separation on their own. It’s just good business sense.

Megatron96 08-08-2024 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch (Post 17621336)
May just not want to play under Shanahan longer than he has to. Public knowledge they've been at odds in the past. Aiyuk may just be one of those dudes that takes it personally.



Might be onto something here. Just looking at his stats in SF just over the last three seasons, he's been targeted 84x, 114x, and 105x. Pretty low totals for an X. Deebo and Kittle were targeted about 90x each, and CMC about 75x since he arrived.

Then factor in the fact Purdy just doesn't have a big arm, and Shanahan's offense is basically designed around a rushing attack and a shorter passing attack.


Aiyuk might feel that Deebo/Kittle/CMC, Purdy's limitations as a deep ball passer and Shanahan's scheme are taking a lot of targets away from him.



And Aiyuk is faster than most people think; his :40 time was run right after he had some kind of core surgery. He's faster than that time indicates. Watch some of his highlights. He can run.

DJ's left nut 08-08-2024 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch (Post 17621444)
Kinda like how we got Rice the ball last year. Only Rice can stay healthy...

Rice reminds me far more of Aiyuk than he does of Deebo.

Last season was a break-in year for Rice. As he progresses, he'll be a set and forget X receiver.

Honesly, I almost wouldn't mind a trade up in the 1st this year for a Z and then Worthy slots in as a really dynamic long-term Y.

Probably unnecessary but man it would be cool. I just don't know that you can get a true Z receiver anymore without getting into the top 10 (or just getting a little bit lucky).

staylor26 08-08-2024 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus (Post 17621436)
Ok, well, when you’re a DC in the NFL and you’re game planning for the 9ers, you can prioritize Aiyuk over Deebo and Kittle and see how well that works out for you.

I don’t think many teams would bother doing that. It’ll be CMC first, Deebo second, then Kittle, then Aiyuk because CMC, Deebo and Kittle have all demonstrated the ability to be game changers. Aiyuk can’t say the same.

Holy **** you're absolutely clueless and delusional.

Funny how Deebo's 1,400 yard season is somehow proof that he's a great WR too that can run routes and separate, but Aiyuk hasn't even proven to be a "game changer" after a 1,342 yard season. Unlike Deebo, more than 50% of those yards didn't come from YAC either.

****ing :o)

New World Order 08-08-2024 11:10 AM

So is this going to happen or what?

staylor26 08-08-2024 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus (Post 17621447)
For the record, the debate was never who was more valuable or who would be prioritized with extension between Deebo and Aiyuk. Staylor and I both recognize that there are too many variables in those arguments to even broach that subject.

The argument was mostly over who was the better WR.

We know that Aiyuk is the prototypical X, the traditional WR. We know that Deebo is more of a bruiser WR/RB hybrid. All that on the table, who is the better player? Personally, I think it’s Deebo because Deebo is a lot better at doing the things Aiyuk does than Aiyuk is at doing the things Deebo does.

My best comparison was a QB debate with a dual-threat QB like Lamar vs a traditional pocket passer like Dak. I don’t think many would disagree with the idea that Dak is a much better traditional pocket passer. He’s better at doing all of the things you’d look for in a typical QB. At the same time, you can’t discredit the abilities Lamar brings with his legs. All in all, I think most would agree that Lamar is the better QB.

It's more like comparing Lamar to CJ Stroud, but keep going with this stupid comparison.

O.city 08-08-2024 11:15 AM

We're getting into the weeds here a little bit, so much of the QB thing is the surroundings and coaches.

If I had Dak in that Baltimore system.....yeah I think he'd have had more playoff success than he's had in Dallas. I just don't care for a guy who's main attribute is his legs playing QB.

Similarly....if I want a WR, I want a guy that does WR things IE, running routes and getting open.

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan 08-08-2024 11:20 AM

And this might be the fly in the ointment.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/b...ks-per-report/


Brandon Aiyuk trade rumors: Steelers in mix for 49ers WR; San Francisco asking for two No. 1 picks, per report

By Bryan DeArdo

Despite reports of aggressively pursuing him just hours earlier, the New England Patriots have bowed out of the Brandon Aiyuk sweepstakes, according to ESPN. New England was reportedly prepared to make the 49ers' wideout one of the five highest-paid receivers in the NFL. Yet after inquiring about Aiyuk's availability, the Patriots have decided to change course and will instead put their trust into their young receiving corps for the 2024 season.

The Patriots might be out, but another AFC squad is still reportedly in the running to land Aiyuk, who has requested a trade out of San Francisco. The Steelers reengaged in trade talks with the 49ers on Tuesday after things had stalled Monday night, according to ESPN. The Washington Commanders and Cleveland Browns are two other teams to keep an eye on.

No verbal agreement has been made between the Steelers and the 49ers on a possible trade as of Wednesday evening, according to the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, which added that any potential deal would not involve the Steelers giving up a player. The 49ers have asked the Steelers for two first-round picks for Aiyuk, according to Jim Wexell of Steel City Insider.

The Steelers have long been rumored as a possible landing spot for Aiyuk, who requested a trade from the 49ers as the two sides have been unable to come to terms on a long-term contract. Pittsburgh has somewhat of a void at receiver after the team traded former Pro Bowler Diontae Johnson to Carolina earlier this offseason. Veterans Van Jefferson, Calvin Austin III and rookie Roman Wilson are currently in the running to serve as the Steelers' No. 2 wideout opposite George Pickens.

There's no doubt Aiyuk would add a spark to the Steelers' offense. A 2020 first-round pick, Aiuyk's career took off after Brock Purdy took over as the 49ers' starting quarterback in 2022. He had his first 1,000-yard season that year, and last season recorded a career-high 1,342 yards while helping the 49ers capture the NFC title.

If he comes to Pittsburgh, Aiyuk would round out an offense that already has notable players in Pickens, running backs Najee Harris and Jaylen Warren, tight end Pat Freiermuth, two first-round picks on the offensive line (Broderick Jones and Troy Fautanu) and quarterbacks Russell Wilson and Justin Fields.

New World Order 08-08-2024 11:24 AM

Two number 1s AND a contract like that? LMAO

I mean maybe, MAYBE if I had an elite qb like Houston on a rookie deal. But even that is a huge stretch.

Unreal

DJ's left nut 08-08-2024 11:35 AM

They’re not getting 2 firsts for Aiyuk.

We didn’t get 2 firsts for Hill.

They can wish in one hand and shit in the other here because there’s a zero percent chance that happens.

mr. tegu 08-08-2024 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfaulk34 (Post 17621403)
That's a really dumb take.


One win when trailing with 8 minutes to go.

ThaVirus 08-08-2024 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 17621468)
Holy **** you're absolutely clueless and delusional.

Funny how Deebo's 1,400 yard season is somehow proof that he's a great WR too that can run routes and separate, but Aiyuk hasn't even proven to be a "game changer" after a 1,342 yard season. Unlike Deebo, more than 50% of those yards didn't come from YAC either.

****ing :o)

You keep harping on the RAC thing as if that isn’t insanely impressive for Deebo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 17621473)
It's more like comparing Lamar to CJ Stroud, but keep going with this stupid comparison.

I wanted to use Dak because I’ve read enough posts on this board to know the temperature on the two is pretty similar. They’re both known as playoff chokers too.

Comparing him to Stroud doesn’t work as well because a lot of people would choose Stroud for who they expect he will become rather than what he was last year, which was not as good as Lamar.

rfaulk34 08-08-2024 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17621427)
Keep telling yourself that.

Through his age 27 season, Andy Dalton had been to 2 Pro Bowls and thrown for 14,750 yards and 99 TDs.

Through Burrows age 27 season Burrow has thrown for 14,000 yards and 93 TDs with a single Pro Bowl.

Through Mahomes age 27 season he'd thrown for 24,200 yards and 192 TDs. He'd made 5 Pro Bowls, 2 All Pro teams and won 2 Super Bowls (and Super Bowl MVPs).

Yes, Joe Burrow is far far FAR closer to Andy Dalton than he his Patrick Mahomes. The fact that you fellas keep trying to pretend otherwise is the real joke. Joe Burrow is barely playing the same sport as Mahomes.

That's super cool how you use the "through age 27 season" and raw stats, like that makes your argument.

Andy Dalton was never more than an average regular season QB, with one exception where he got hurt after 12 games. He was bad in prime time, other than a few thursday night games and he sucked hard in the post season.

Burrow is unquestionably elite and has done so much more than Dalton, in his 4 years, it's not even funny to compare them. To anyone objectively looking at the 3, Burrow is much closer to Mahomes and Dalton doesn't even deserve to be mentioned with either of them.

Patrick Mahomes games played through age 27 season: 80
Andy Dalton games played through age 27 season: 64
Joe Burrow games played through age 27 season: 52

Sassy Squatch 08-08-2024 12:21 PM

Yeesh. That's actually far more damning for Burrow than I'd assumed. I thought he disparity of games would be very high but it's just a 12 game difference.

staylor26 08-08-2024 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus (Post 17621558)
You keep harping on the RAC thing as if that isn’t insanely impressive for Deebo.



I wanted to use Dak because I’ve read enough posts on this board to know the temperature on the two is pretty similar. They’re both known as playoff chokers too.

Comparing him to Stroud doesn’t work as well because a lot of people would choose Stroud for who they expect he will become rather than what he was last year, which was not as good as Lamar.

I keep "harping on the YAC" because you think 1,400 yards is somehow proof that Deebo can run great routes and separate consistently. It's a lazy ****ing take.

Again, why is one 1,400 yard season a few years ago SO much better than 1,342 yards just last year? Aiyuk already has more 1,000 yard seasons than ****ing Deebo.

DRM08 08-08-2024 12:48 PM

Sounds like there is a stalemate in Aiyuk trade discussion. Maybe he stays with Niners?

Hoover 08-08-2024 12:54 PM

This deal won’t get done if the 49ers want a player in return.

Sassy Squatch 08-08-2024 12:57 PM

All depends on how uncomfortable Aiyuk is willing to make it for the 49ers. 49ers have done their part. Made him a fair offer, and when he rejected it agreed to a trade with a team that was willing to pay him top 5 money. Aiyuk didn't like the destination. At that point they may as well just say **** it to him and let him play out on the 5th year option and tag.

O.city 08-08-2024 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfaulk34 (Post 17621585)
That's super cool how you use the "through age 27 season" and raw stats, like that makes your argument.

Andy Dalton was never more than an average regular season QB, with one exception where he got hurt after 12 games. He was bad in prime time, other than a few thursday night games and he sucked hard in the post season.

Burrow is unquestionably elite and has done so much more than Dalton, in his 4 years, it's not even funny to compare them. To anyone objectively looking at the 3, Burrow is much closer to Mahomes and Dalton doesn't even deserve to be mentioned with either of them.

Patrick Mahomes games played through age 27 season: 80
Andy Dalton games played through age 27 season: 64
Joe Burrow games played through age 27 season: 52

Done so much more as in??? Statistically or what?

The Joe Burrow stuff has kinda went full Arthur Fonzarelli here and jumped the shark.

Couch-Potato 08-08-2024 01:21 PM

SF has the cap to pay him and T Williams, would have to get creative with next year's contracts but they can do it. I think they should too... pay the talent, use a high pick on a dynamic rookie QB on a cost controlled rookie deal... They've done all they can with Purdy.

DJ's left nut 08-08-2024 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch (Post 17621591)
Yeesh. That's actually far more damning for Burrow than I'd assumed. I thought he disparity of games would be very high but it's just a 12 game difference.

Yup.

And availability matters.

They tell themselves what they need to...

ThaVirus 08-08-2024 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 17621604)
I keep "harping on the YAC" because you think 1,400 yards is somehow proof that Deebo can run great routes and separate consistently. It's a lazy ****ing take.

I never said this. I have specifically avoided claiming he runs great routes because I know it isn’t true.

If he did, he’d be in the Tyreek/Justin Jefferson tier.

Quote:

Again, why is one 1,400 yard season a few years ago SO much better than 1,342 yards just last year? Aiyuk already has more 1,000 yard seasons than ****ing Deebo.
Deebo’s 2021 was pretty objectively superior to Aiyuk’s 2023 and I want to make sure you recognize that. They were pretty close in regards to purely receiving statistics but then you add the additional 365 rushing yards at 6.2 YPC and 8 TDs on the ground for Deebo and it’s no longer close. I think it’s important to note when we’re comparing the two’s peaks.

Deebo’s season earned AP1 honors. Aiyuk’s was just a really good season for a WR, literally zero consideration for All-Pro honors.

rfaulk34 08-08-2024 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 17621749)
Yup.

And availability matters.

They tell themselves what they need to...

Availability and Ability are 2 different things. :eek:

staylor26 08-08-2024 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus (Post 17621758)
I never said this. I have specifically avoided claiming he runs great routes because I know it isn’t true.

If he did, he’d be in the Tyreek/Justin Jefferson tier.



Deebo’s 2021 was pretty objectively superior to Aiyuk’s 2023 and I want to make sure you recognize that. They were pretty close in regards to purely receiving statistics but then you add the additional 365 rushing yards at 6.2 YPC and 8 TDs on the ground for Deebo and it’s no longer close. I think it’s important to note when we’re comparing the two’s peaks.

Deebo’s season earned AP1 honors. Aiyuk’s was just a really good season for a WR, literally zero consideration for All-Pro honors.

Fine, it doesn't mean that he's a quality route runner either. The point still stands. You literally pointed to his 1,400 yard season and said "see he MUST run good routes and separate consistently!". He had a 1,400 yard season because he had an insane YAC season. It's really ****ing simple.

Those 365 rushing yards don't change the fact that Aiyuk had a better season as a WR. You keep trying to do this "versatility = better" shit when it's the exact opposite. Deebo has to work way harder for his yardage. That's not at all a good thing, and it's exactly why he comes with injuries every year. Him being a WR/RB hybrid drives his value down, not up, as a WR.

New World Order 08-08-2024 02:02 PM

You two need to be alone and makeup

DJ's left nut 08-08-2024 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfaulk34 (Post 17621761)
Availability and Ability are 2 different things. :eek:

Production is production - either you're there for your team or you're not. And in a cap league, when you're taking up an immense amount of the cap, availability matters just as much as ability.

Though to an extent you're right - availability prevents someone like Jake Browning going in there in your absence and outplaying you. Boy you hate to see that.

I'm sure if Mahomes went down, Wentz would do the same...

ThaVirus 08-08-2024 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New World Order (Post 17621768)
You two need to be alone and makeup

Yeah, like I said, we really didn’t need to rehash it here. We’re making all of the same points we already made in the other thread.

So I’ll stop it now.

Sassy Squatch 08-08-2024 02:39 PM

Joe Burrow in 9 games: 2-7 record, 2688 yards, 13 TDs, 5 INTs
Jake Browning in 7 games: 4-3 record, 1936 yards, 14 YDs, 7 INTs

Jesus ****ing Christ LMAO

DJ's left nut 08-08-2024 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch (Post 17621852)
Joe Burrow in 9 games: 2-7 record, 2688 yards, 13 TDs, 5 INTs
Jake Browning in 7 games: 4-3 record, 1936 yards, 14 YDs, 7 INTs

Jesus ****ing Christ LMAO

Well we know he's closer to Jake Browning than Patrick Mahomes, at least...

mr. tegu 08-08-2024 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfaulk34 (Post 17621761)
Availability and Ability are 2 different things. :eek:


Wow that’s 0 for 2 on Burrow. Not good.

Sassy Squatch 08-08-2024 03:29 PM

Apparently the 49ers are looking for a 3rd team willing to part with a WR to add to the deal.

New World Order 08-08-2024 03:31 PM

They act like the dude is prime Randy moss

ToxSocks 08-08-2024 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by New World Order (Post 17621987)
They act like the dude is prime Randy moss

Seriously. Im not all that impressed by him tbh. Good player for sure. Just not sure that he's a game breaker.

Sassy Squatch 08-08-2024 03:34 PM

The fact that the 49ers are even willing to take it this far makes me believe the relationship with Aiyuk is fractured beyond repair behind the scenes. It would be so easy for them to just call Aiyuks bluff and force him to play out 2024.

ThaVirus 08-08-2024 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch (Post 17621996)
The fact that the 49ers are even willing to take it this far makes me believe the relationship with Aiyuk is fractured beyond repair behind the scenes. It would be so easy for them to just call Aiyuks bluff and force him to play out 2024.

I feel like they’ve got incentive to take this as far as it’ll go.

Just keep asking for ridiculous shit. If someone caves, awesome, you made out like a bandit. If not, you keep Aiyuk and go all in for a Super Bowl once last time before it starts to fall apart.

DJ's left nut 08-08-2024 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToxSocks (Post 17621993)
Seriously. Im not all that impressed by him tbh. Good player for sure. Just not sure that he's a game breaker.

Neither was, say, Andre Johnson.

Andre was 27 and in his 6th season when he finally had a year that was better than what Aiyuk did last season. And it took a TON of volume to get there.

Now I agree with you that a dynamic game-breaker has more value merely by virtue of having home run ball ability. That said, Aiyuk's ADOT was 14.3 - that is way the hell down there. I'm betting that's top 5 for anyone with 100 targets. He was no pure underneath player - he was getting a lot of balls on intermediate and deep plays last season.

Great Catch rate, super low drop rate, elite yards per route run (over 3 is top shelf shit). I mean by virtually any measure he was a damn stud last season.

This is a guy that got fewer targets than Jordan Addison, Tyler Lockett, Chris Godwin, Adam Thielen, Keenan Allen and a bunch of other dudes he was better than last season.

I wouldn't sleep on him. He's a lot better than you're giving him credit for, IMO. He's easily a top 10 WR and arguably belongs in the top 5. He was really really REALLY good.

DJ's left nut 08-08-2024 03:49 PM

If Aiyuk gets 30 more targets last season - still puts him outside the top 15 but more inline with what a lot of 'premier' WRs get - that would bring up him to 131 targets . At his catch rate, it adds 22 catches to his ledger. That then yields an additional 400 receiving yards based on his average Yards/Reception.

Suddenly the dude has 97 catches for 1,750 yards.

That's CeeDee Lamb's production on forty fewer targets.

There just weren't many guys as efficient as Brandon Aiyuk last season. Nico Collins as there. Cooper was close. Had Justin Jefferson stayed healthy he probably would've been.

I mean there's just nothing not to like about the kid under the hood. He doesn't have blazing deep speed but apart from that, he was a genuine stud last year.

Sassy Squatch 08-08-2024 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus (Post 17622003)
I feel like they’ve got incentive to take this as far as it’ll go.

Just keep asking for ridiculous shit. If someone caves, awesome, you made out like a bandit. If not, you keep Aiyuk and go all in for a Super Bowl once last time before it starts to fall apart.

Sure, they could go that route, but it's predicated on Aiyuk cooperating. That may well not happen, especially if Aiyuk is willing to take it to the point of holding in with a phantom injury.


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