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DJ's left nut 03-26-2023 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 16876670)
They completely ****ing ****ed coaching that kid. I was really high on Speaks as a DT prospect. He absolutely had outstanding athleticism if they would have used him inside where he was best in college. Instead, brilliant ****ing Bob tries to make him a damned OLB. Then he spends all year injured when Spags arrived and never developed. I don't think it was the pick as much as it was the absolute dipshits that were Sutton and Co.

I'm less nervous with Spags but if they pick Moro Ojomo, Tyler Lacy, or Dante Stills those butterflies might come back.

Dude never so much as got extended run on a practice squad anywhere else. If it were mere coaching, SOMEONE would've given him a look at least on a practice squad.

It wasn't coaching. It was sub-average talent combined with a complete lack of drive.

The fact that he got a fresh start and showed up out of shape says it all.

RunKC 03-26-2023 02:44 PM

Keion White looks very promising in person but he effectively had one good year. You’d think an ass kicker like him would be owning people before last year no? Reminds me a bit of Kpassagnon when he was with us.

Thought that guy was gonna rape…but…yeah.

DJ's left nut 03-26-2023 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16876716)
Keion White looks very promising in person but he effectively had one good year. You’d think an ass kicker like him would be owning people before last year no? Reminds me a bit of Kpassagnon when he was with us.

Thought that guy was gonna rape…but…yeah.

Yeah, the NFL has a lot of 'looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane' players out there and really I'm not 100% certain how to separate the wheat from the chaff there.

But if there were a science to it, being a GM would be a hell of a lot easier. At points maybe you have to just spin the wheel and take your chances. Because man, find me many guys who's tools look more like Myles Garrett in a draft in any given year.

There aren't a ton of guys who are even reasonably likely to be available to us that I'd take ahead of him. Maybe Harrison? Maybe Smith-Njiba or Wright?

Among potential DEs, I know there are going to be safer picks, but give if anyone can tap this guy, it would seem Cullen (and having Jones on the line with him) can do it.

The tools are just crazy good.

JPH83 03-26-2023 03:05 PM

Gotta be honest, a few earlier mocks had White going to us at 31 and I laughed at the prospect of him being anything near a 1st round guy. But then we got the testing numbers and...yeah, that's a little different I guess.

The issue now is he's 24 and still raw. It's not all his fault, but I probably want a higher floor at that pick, I dunno. I could see how he'd be a dream for Spags, but man can be just get some bend please?

kccrow 03-26-2023 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16876682)
Dude never so much as got extended run on a practice squad anywhere else. If it were mere coaching, SOMEONE would've given him a look at least on a practice squad.

It wasn't coaching. It was sub-average talent combined with a complete lack of drive.

The fact that he got a fresh start and showed up out of shape says it all.

You're acting like he wasn't regarded as a day 2 prospect by everyone. It might look smart in retrospect but that wasn't anywhere near what people thought then. The dude came off an outstanding Junior season and had really good measurables. The fact he failed is somewhere between his work ethic and coaching and probably does lean heavily towards work ethic. To say he had no talent is simply not true. He had talent. You don't do what he did as a Junior in the SEC and just completely suck nuts.

DJ's left nut 03-26-2023 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 16876794)
You're acting like he wasn't regarded as a day 2 prospect by everyone. It might look smart in retrospect but that wasn't anywhere near what people thought then. The dude came off an outstanding Junior season and had really good measurables. The fact he failed is somewhere between his work ethic and coaching and probably does lean heavily towards work ethic. To say he had no talent is simply not true. He had talent. You don't do what he did as a Junior in the SEC and just completely suck nuts.

I mean, I'm acting like I didn't think he was a day 2 prospect, yeah.

I didn't see it when we made the pick and never saw it at any point. I don't know where 'really good measurables' came from because what his measurables point to where a bunch of parts that don't make a whole.

He wasn't agile enough to play edge, though admittedly few pegged him there. He wasn't long enough to be a 3-4 DE. So what you're really looking at is someone would seemingly be an under-tackle in a 4-3.

The problem is he wasn't nearly powerful enough to play IDL. And while a 4.87 40 is good for a DT it's also largely irrelevant. He didn't have any measurables that qualified as 'really good' that actually fit with the rest of his tools to make an actual football player.

He was a tweener and that's exactly what I said at the time. He simply didn't have a home.

And yeah, there have been plenty of SEC players who played better than Speaks but who ultimately just didn't have a complete set of tools. Michael Sam would be an immediate and obvious example.

staylor26 03-26-2023 04:46 PM

Dude, Michael Sam can be a bottom or a top. Very toolsy.

kccrow 03-26-2023 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16876813)
I mean, I'm acting like I didn't think he was a day 2 prospect, yeah.

I didn't see it when we made the pick and never saw it at any point. I don't know where 'really good measurables' came from because what his measurables point to where a bunch of parts that don't make a whole.

He wasn't agile enough to play edge, though admittedly few pegged him there. He wasn't long enough to be a 3-4 DE. So what you're really looking at is someone would seemingly be an under-tackle in a 4-3.

The problem is he wasn't nearly powerful enough to play IDL. And while a 4.87 40 is good for a DT it's also largely irrelevant. He didn't have any measurables that qualified as 'really good' that actually fit with the rest of his tools to make an actual football player.

He was a tweener and that's exactly what I said at the time. He simply didn't have a home.

And yeah, there have been plenty of SEC players who played better than Speaks but who ultimately just didn't have a complete set of tools. Michael Sam would be an immediate and obvious example.

Point me please to where you said any of this shit before he was drafted. We ran a 3-4 at the time. His profile was a 3-4 5T.

kccrow 03-26-2023 07:32 PM

Actually, you know what, I don't even rightly give a shit. I'd much rather hear right now who you think are the studs and duds of this year's class.

Chris Meck 03-26-2023 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Franchise (Post 16876643)
White would give Spags a defensive line where he could rush any of them from any spot on passing downs.

Karlaftis - Jones - Omenihu - White

Shit.

I like White, and for the same reasons.

Adewore is also a guy that fits this same line of thought.

Couch-Potato 03-27-2023 05:38 AM

I like...

1st
White
Foskey
Tuipoluto

2nd
Adebaware
Carter
Harrison

3rd-4th
Mcguire
Diaby
Fehoko

5th-7th
Incoom
Young
Murphy

O.city 03-27-2023 07:05 AM

Say the Commanders call and are willing to do basically the OBJ Chiefs Ravens trade for Montez Sweat.

Any interest?

DJ's left nut 03-27-2023 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 16877263)
Say the Commanders call and are willing to do basically the OBJ Chiefs Ravens trade for Montez Sweat.

Any interest?

Probably. The depth of the draft into the 2nd makes for a strong 'Nick Bolton' possibility where the 2nd we get back in the exchange is going to yield a very good player.

Sweat's cap charge is about 3 times what OBJs was, though. So I may need them to dial back that mid-round pick we included in the OBJ deal. Then again, the 2 we get in retirn should be higher than the one we got from Baltimore.

But yeah, I'd consider it. The problem is the cap space. I'm just not sure where to find it at his point.

staylor26 03-27-2023 09:18 AM

Felix Anudike-Uzomah sure is a popular pick for the Chiefs lately.

O.city 03-27-2023 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16877376)
Probably. The depth of the draft into the 2nd makes for a strong 'Nick Bolton' possibility where the 2nd we get back in the exchange is going to yield a very good player.

Sweat's cap charge is about 3 times what OBJs was, though. So I may need them to dial back that mid-round pick we included in the OBJ deal. Then again, the 2 we get in retirn should be higher than the one we got from Baltimore.

But yeah, I'd consider it. The problem is the cap space. I'm just not sure where to find it at his point.

They could work to get it this year, but he'd need a LTD, so you'd have to go into the future to figure it out.

I'd say Thuney is gone after this year, I'm not sure on Snead's fuure here either.

But Sweat would pair pretty well with what we've got there I think.

RunKC 03-27-2023 09:47 AM

Feeling more and more comfortable with the options at DE in rd 2 if we want to go somewhere else in rd 1.

Not sure they’re gonna draft a DL in the first in back-to-back years.

DJ's left nut 03-27-2023 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16877385)
Felix Anudike-Uzomah sure is a popular pick for the Chiefs lately.

Yeah - still just don't see it.

:shrug:

JPH83 03-27-2023 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16877440)
Yeah - still just don't see it.

:shrug:

It's if we want a guy who can go round rather than just directly over an OT. Tested pretty well, has plenty of moves, decent production, great bend. Doesn't have the same versatility as others mentioned.

staylor26 03-27-2023 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16877440)
Yeah - still just don't see it.

:shrug:

He's not my favorite of the group, but I do think he's in that tier of edge rusher that should/could be available.

I think if they take him, it's because he's the best of both worlds in terms of meeting the size thresholds, but also having speed and bend.

DJ's left nut 03-27-2023 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPH83 (Post 16877448)
It's if we want a guy who can go round rather than just directly over an OT. Tested pretty well, has plenty of moves, decent production, great bend. Doesn't have the same versatility as others mentioned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16877475)
He's not my favorite of the group, but I do think he's in that tier of edge rusher that should/could be available.

I think if they take him, it's because he's the best of both worlds in terms of meeting the size thresholds, but also having speed and bend.

And that's where I just keep landing with him.

I don't dislike the guy as a prospect - I just can't see a scenario where he's even one of my 3 favorite guys on the board. I should go run a mock where I just screw the Chiefs with every pick I make (within reason) and see if I can get him there.

I mean you can take 10 guys off the board for KC pretty immediately; maybe even 15. And once you get that done, I can probably still make a list of 20 guys I'd rather have. Felix is probably in/around 40th or so on any kind of generic 'big board' I'd make.

staylor26 03-27-2023 10:55 AM

One thing I've heard about Felix is that he has a high football IQ and understands how to formulate a pass rush plan. They says he's a guy that is going to interview well and win teams over that way.

That might be why he goes a little higher than expected.

JPH83 03-27-2023 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16877506)
And that's where I just keep landing with him.

I don't dislike the guy as a prospect - I just can't see a scenario where he's even one of my 3 favorite guys on the board. I should go run a mock where I just screw the Chiefs with every pick I make (within reason) and see if I can get him there.

I mean you can take 10 guys off the board for KC pretty immediately; maybe even 15. And once you get that done, I can probably still make a list of 20 guys I'd rather have. Felix is probably in/around 40th or so on any kind of generic 'big board' I'd make.

I think that's reasonable. I may be a little higher on him, but he's definitely early 2nd more than late 1st in my mind. Not a reach at 31 but not a slam dunk either, imo. In terms of what I'm expecting to be left at DE, I'm guessing he will be in my top 3. I prefer him to guys like Foskey and Hall.

RunKC 04-01-2023 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16877545)
One thing I've heard about Felix is that he has a high football IQ and understands how to formulate a pass rush plan. They says he's a guy that is going to interview well and win teams over that way.

That might be why he goes a little higher than expected.

He’s got good lateral agility. That’s for sure. I like him.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Approx. 6.84second 3 Cone Drill from Felix Anudike-Uzomah. Would’ve ranked as the 5th best time at the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NFLCombine?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NFLCombine</a> overall among all positions. <a href="https://t.co/Tnxvrv9V9m">https://t.co/Tnxvrv9V9m</a></p>&mdash; Wyatt Bolinger (@WyattBolinger) <a href="https://twitter.com/WyattBolinger/status/1641830014445289473?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 31, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Chris Meck 04-01-2023 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPH83 (Post 16877749)
I think that's reasonable. I may be a little higher on him, but he's definitely early 2nd more than late 1st in my mind. Not a reach at 31 but not a slam dunk either, imo. In terms of what I'm expecting to be left at DE, I'm guessing he will be in my top 3. I prefer him to guys like Foskey and Hall.

I'd like any of those three guys, and I see them all as basically interchangeable.

O.city 04-01-2023 10:55 AM

https://twitter.com/nate_tice/status...lHXA6BeO88mpxA

O.city 04-01-2023 10:55 AM

Mazi next to jones would be real fun

Direckshun 04-01-2023 12:04 PM

I struggle to think the Chiefs will take DT in the first unless it’s an heir apparent to Jones. Spags just doesn’t value the 1-tech as much.

If he can get himself another edge in the first, and now you’ve got a NASCAR package of Jones with any three of Karlaftis/Omenihu/Danna/(FAU/McDonald/Ade Ade/Murphy/Ojulari/Hall)…. I mean, come on.

Unless the Chiefs are just bankrupt at ideas for what to do at WR… DE just has to be the pick.

Direckshun 04-01-2023 12:06 PM

All the things you guys are saying about FAU, by the way, you could have been saying about Hali in 2006.

FAU = Tamba

Chris Meck 04-01-2023 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 16885339)
All the things you guys are saying about FAU, by the way, you could have been saying about Hali in 2006.

FAU = Tamba

Oh no.

Felix is a much, MUCH better athlete than Hali ever was. The knock on Hali was that he was a 'try hard', 'high motor' guy but athletically limited.

Felix is a much better athlete.

kccrow 04-01-2023 03:36 PM

Found this little nugget today on D-Line...

It's from PFF but if you like metric-based analysis, it may or may not confirm your own eyeballs.

A few guys I really like happen to have some solid metrics.

In terms of size to play the position as a 1T DT and combined abilities against the pass and run, Keeanu Benton is as good as it gets.

If you're looking for a well-rounded sleeper as more of a 3T DT, then Kobie Turner is up there. I really thought about him as a pick for the Chiefs in the mock when I took Pickens instead but I just like Pickens snap quickness better. PFF metrics lean hard to Turner though.

staylor26 04-01-2023 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16885202)
He’s got good lateral agility. That’s for sure. I like him.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Approx. 6.84second 3 Cone Drill from Felix Anudike-Uzomah. Would’ve ranked as the 5th best time at the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NFLCombine?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NFLCombine</a> overall among all positions. <a href="https://t.co/Tnxvrv9V9m">https://t.co/Tnxvrv9V9m</a></p>&mdash; Wyatt Bolinger (@WyattBolinger) <a href="https://twitter.com/WyattBolinger/status/1641830014445289473?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 31, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Ok, I'm ready to put this guy on the 1st round target list.

O.city 04-04-2023 11:55 AM

Prisco has Nolan Smith falling to us at 31. I'd love that.

Chiefnj2 04-05-2023 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 16889274)
Prisco has Nolan Smith falling to us at 31. I'd love that.

Do you think they'd use a first round pick on a DE under 240lbs?

O.city 04-05-2023 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 16890526)
Do you think they'd use a first round pick on a DE under 240lbs?

It would be against their previous DE choices but McDuffie was against that at CB last year so who knows.

Chiefnj2 04-05-2023 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.city (Post 16890536)
It would be against their previous DE choices but McDuffie was against that at CB last year so who knows.

What made McDuffie an outlier?

DJ's left nut 04-05-2023 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2 (Post 16890714)
What made McDuffie an outlier?

Length. Spags is said to prefer taller DBs.

By and large it checks out. Fenton being one of our few recent exceptions.

staylor26 04-05-2023 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16890720)
Length. Spags is said to prefer taller DBs.

By and large it checks out. Fenton being one of our few recent exceptions.

And in particular arm length.

DJ's left nut 04-05-2023 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16890722)
And in particular arm length.

Yeah, I had 'prefer longer DBs' in there but it read funny to me.

McDuffie just didn't fit the Spags mold. You especially wouldn't have figured on a fairly aggressive trade-up to get him.

The 'mold' is more of a set of guidelines. They'll go outside them if they find a player they like. I feel like they lean into that sort of thing more heavily in the 3rd day when they're trying to find contributors rather than potential blue-chippers.

Danna being the exception I can think of as a 3rd day pick who doesn't fit a typical rubric for what we seem to look for. The rest of the 3rd day picks tend to adhere to a general trend.

staylor26 04-05-2023 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 16890727)
Yeah, I had 'prefer longer DBs' in there but it read funny to me.

McDuffie just didn't fit the Spags mold. You especially wouldn't have figured on a fairly aggressive trade-up to get him.

The 'mold' is more of a set of guidelines. They'll go outside them if they find a player they like. I feel like they lean into that sort of thing more heavily in the 3rd day when they're trying to find contributors rather than potential blue-chippers.

Danna being the exception I can think of as a 3rd day pick who doesn't fit a typical rubric for what we seem to look for. The rest of the 3rd day picks tend to adhere to a general trend.

The McDuffie thing just threw me off entirely.

I absolutely loved McDuffie, but I didn't think he'd be in our range, and he obviously didn't meet the typical thresholds.

It's exactly why I don't know what think think about guys like Smith and McDonald at EDGE.

A big question mark going into this draft is have the Chiefs becomes more flexible with this stuff, or is McDuffie jsut a great football player that they made an exception for?

They sure have met with a lot of those undersized edge rushers.

Urc Burry 04-05-2023 10:40 AM

It sure seems like the Van Ness hype has slowed down. At what point of the draft do you consider trading up for him?

DJ's left nut 04-05-2023 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16890770)
The McDuffie thing just threw me off entirely.

I absolutely loved McDuffie, but I didn't think he'd be in our range, and he obviously didn't meet the typical thresholds.

It's exactly why I don't know what think think about guys like Smith and McDonald at EDGE.

A big question mark going into this draft is have the Chiefs becomes more flexible with this stuff, or is McDuffie jsut a great football player that they made an exception for?

They sure have met with a lot of those undersized edge rushers.

Bert's been readin' my shit!

Mecca 04-05-2023 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urc Burry (Post 16890784)
It sure seems like the Van Ness hype has slowed down. At what point of the draft do you consider trading up for him?

He's in the top 15 on basically every mock...

Also Myles Murphy killed it today, 6'5 271 with a 4.52 40.

Couch-Potato 04-05-2023 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca (Post 16891217)
He's in the top 15 on basically every mock...

Also Myles Murphy killed it today, 6'5 271 with a 4.52 40.

Perfect Spags DE.

Couch-Potato 04-05-2023 07:56 PM

This feels like a really stupid question, but is there a difference between "DE" and "ED"? I noticed some sites designate either or for players, is that just a typo? Interchangeable?

Urc Burry 04-05-2023 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 16891629)
This feels like a really stupid question, but is there a difference between "DE" and "ED"? I noticed some sites designate either or for players, is that just a typo? Interchangeable?

Generally speaking..

DE is exclusively a 4-3 defensive end. Nick Bosa would be labeled a DE

Edge will be a guy who’s more versatile and is a pass rusher who can play end in a 4-3 or OLB in a 3-4. Like Von or Mack

3-4 DEs are usually going to be found in the DT pool. Because they usually need to be at or around 300 lb

This is how I interpret it at least :shrug:

Tribal Warfare 04-05-2023 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urc Burry (Post 16891704)
Generally speaking..

DE is exclusively a 4-3 defensive end. Nick Bosa would be labeled a DE

Edge will be a guy who’s more versatile and is a pass rusher who can play end in a 4-3 or OLB in a 3-4. Like Von or Mack

3-4 DEs are usually going to be found in the DT pool. Because they usually need to be at or around 300 lb

This is how I interpret it at least :shrug:

DE, strictly 4-3

EDGE are tweeners, that are a better fit for a 3-4 alignment

BossChief 04-05-2023 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urc Burry (Post 16890784)
It sure seems like the Van Ness hype has slowed down. At what point of the draft do you consider trading up for him?


Last draft, we traded from 29 to 21 by giving up 816 draft value points to secure a slot worth 800, so I’d assume a similar type of value can be used to get to the 21/22 area again this year.

29 - 640
94 - 124
121 - 52

21 - 800

31 - 600

To get up to around pick 18 is 900 points and to get to 16 is 1,000.

So, basically using out first and second would likely get up to pick 18 and it would cost approximately our first 3 picks to move up to 16.

I love Van Ness, but this draft has so much talent in the 2nd and 3rd rounds that I can’t justify giving away enough draft capital to move up any higher than 20/21…but I’d prefer moving up to that range than staying put at 31.

BossChief 04-05-2023 10:47 PM

Guys I’m hoping fall past 19/20 that we should have a chance at

Van Ness
Jalen Carter
Tyree Wilson
quentin Johnston
JSN
Paris Johnson
Darnell Wright
Bryan Breese
Nolan Smith
Myles Murphy
Anton Harrison
Broderick Jones
Zay Flowers
Jordan Addison
Dawand Jones

That’s 15 guys that doesn’t account for QBs, RBs, CBs, LBers IOL so there should be a good opportunity to have 2-3 of them available even if we sit tight at 31…but moving up in the first for a playmaker would be ideal for this team because 10 rookies aren’t making this roster.

Dunerdr 04-06-2023 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BossChief (Post 16891770)
Last draft, we traded from 29 to 21 by giving up 816 draft value points to secure a slot worth 800, so I’d assume a similar type of value can be used to get to the 21/22 area again this year.

29 - 640
94 - 124
121 - 52

21 - 800

31 - 600

To get up to around pick 18 is 900 points and to get to 16 is 1,000.

So, basically using out first and second would likely get up to pick 18 and it would cost approximately our first 3 picks to move up to 16.

I love Van Ness, but this draft has so much talent in the 2nd and 3rd rounds that I can’t justify giving away enough draft capital to move up any higher than 20/21…but I’d prefer moving up to that range than staying put at 31.

He's damn good for sure, but some have him as a DT. And a draft like this i just think your better served throwing more darts in rounds 2-3.

staylor26 04-06-2023 08:56 AM

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pass Rush Win Rate per PFF in 2022<br><br>Nolan Smith: 25.5% ��<br>Tyree Wilson: 22.3%<br>Will Anderson: 20.4%<br>Keion White: 20.1%<br>Tuli Tuipolotu: 19.1%<br>BJ Ojulari: 18.9%<br>Lukas Van Ness: 18.8%<br>Derick Hall: 17.7%<br>Will McDonald: 16.8%</p>&mdash; Jordan de Lugo (@jordandelugo) <a href="https://twitter.com/jordandelugo/status/1643022138486542336?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 3, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Tribal Warfare 04-06-2023 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16892051)
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Pass Rush Win Rate per PFF in 2022<br><br>Nolan Smith: 25.5% ��<br>Tyree Wilson: 22.3%<br>Will Anderson: 20.4%<br>Keion White: 20.1%<br>Tuli Tuipolotu: 19.1%<br>BJ Ojulari: 18.9%<br>Lukas Van Ness: 18.8%<br>Derick Hall: 17.7%<br>Will McDonald: 16.8%</p>&mdash; Jordan de Lugo (@jordandelugo) <a href="https://twitter.com/jordandelugo/status/1643022138486542336?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 3, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'll keep repeating that we should take notice and look at the PFF analytics and how it coincides with Veach's draft plans as it did last time.

Dunerdr 04-06-2023 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 16892066)
I'll keep repeating that we should take notice and look at the PFF analytics and how it coincides with Veach's draft plans as it did last time.

I never used PFF much for mocks until you brought this up tbh. Thanks.

JPH83 04-07-2023 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 16892066)
I'll keep repeating that we should take notice and look at the PFF analytics and how it coincides with Veach's draft plans as it did last time.

Somebody kept telling me Smith can't pass rush. Sure it's not all put together but man that guy was never making it to us, insane that people would've passed if he had

Chris Meck 04-07-2023 06:25 AM

I'm just really feeling like trading UP in the first is not going to be great value, but trading UP in the second might be the key to a home run draft.

And if you used your third to move up in the second, maybe you can use your two fourths to move up back into the third.

htismaqe 04-07-2023 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16893345)
I'm just really feeling like trading UP in the first is not going to be great value, but trading UP in the second might be the key to a home run draft.

And if you used your third to move up in the second, maybe you can use your two fourths to move up back into the third.

:thumb:

Chris Meck 04-07-2023 07:15 AM

I mean...if you compare last year's first round with this year's first round, who from this year would go in the top twenty?

Other than the QB's, maybe like two or three guys?

It's just not a top heavy draft.

But I like a lot of prospects that'll probably go in round two.

duncan_idaho 04-07-2023 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16893382)
I mean...if you compare last year's first round with this year's first round, who from this year would go in the top twenty?

Other than the QB's, maybe like two or three guys?

It's just not a top heavy draft.

But I like a lot of prospects that'll probably go in round two.

Will Anderson
Carter
Tyree Wilson
Paris Johnson, Jr.
Skoronski
Broderick Jones
Porter Jr
Gonzalez
Stroud
Young
at least 1 of Levis/Richardson

So roughly 10 guys I think in this class who still land in the top 20 if you're combining the two classes... or about what you'd expect.

Couch-Potato 04-08-2023 07:15 PM

ESPN's SackSEER projections for the top DEs:

1. Anderson, 25.9 sacks / 5yrs
2. Van Ness, 24.5 / 5yrs
3. Murphy, 21.8 / 5yrs
4. Foskey, 20.8 / 5yrs
5. McDonald IV, 20.6 / 5yrs
6. Smith, 19.6 / 5yrs
7. Young (TEN), 19.2 / 5yrs
8. Wilson, 18.9 / 5yrs
Bonus: Adebawore, 15.1 / 5yrs

Interesting. I thought White would make this list, Tuipuloto as well.

Foskey's still my guy.


Spoiler!

Couch-Potato 04-08-2023 07:34 PM

DE K White coming in with a casual 9.92 RAS score.

staylor26 04-08-2023 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Couch-Potato (Post 16895311)
DE K White coming in with a casual 9.92 RAS score.

What's his projection?

RunKC 04-08-2023 08:23 PM

Keion White is a physical freak but it bothers me using such a high asset on a rookie who will turn 25 this coming season.

Also see what DJ said about Foskey. He is a little stiff, but I still like him a ton.

I question how much the Chiefs would get a guy like Keion White or Adebawore with the signing of Omenihu. They seem like they would have the same role meaning that played wouldn’t start or get as much PT.

Maybe it’s just me but it feels like they’d be looking for a pure edge. And I doubt this kid goes in the first, but it sure seems like Derick Hall would fit that DE role to a “t”. He just seems like an ideal fit if that’s the direction they wanna go

staylor26 04-08-2023 08:24 PM

Keion White just turned 24 in January. He won't be 25 until next year.

RunKC 04-08-2023 08:35 PM

His birthday is ironically on a Sunday. He’ll literally be playing a playoff game as a 25 year old rookie if we draft him. That’s…old

staylor26 04-08-2023 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16895373)
His birthday is ironically on a Sunday. He’ll literally be playing a playoff game as a 25 year old rookie if we draft him. That’s…old

Sure, but if he were 23, he'd be a top 15 pick.

Couch-Potato 04-09-2023 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16895389)
Sure, but if he were 23, he'd be a top 15 pick.

Good point!

I don't feel like he's getting talked about much by pundits for some reason, maybe it's his age?

Chris Meck 04-09-2023 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16895366)
Keion White is a physical freak but it bothers me using such a high asset on a rookie who will turn 25 this coming season.

Also see what DJ said about Foskey. He is a little stiff, but I still like him a ton.

I question how much the Chiefs would get a guy like Keion White or Adebawore with the signing of Omenihu. They seem like they would have the same role meaning that played wouldn’t start or get as much PT.

Maybe it’s just me but it feels like they’d be looking for a pure edge. And I doubt this kid goes in the first, but it sure seems like Derick Hall would fit that DE role to a “t”. He just seems like an ideal fit if that’s the direction they wanna go

I think you're on to something here in general that I've been thinking about, which is blockage.

In order to develop your youngsters, they have to have a path to playing time. If you've just spent money on a guy, you obviously think they're a good player, so maybe you don't want to stack a similar skillset behind them in a draftee.

It's something I've been thinking about while looking at WR's in particular, but it also applies to the DE.

RunKC 04-09-2023 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16895389)
Sure, but if he were 23, he'd be a top 15 pick.

What? A top 15 pick? LMAO

No ****ing way

Urc Burry 04-09-2023 09:22 AM

Age is a real issue to me. If they are a SR or RS JR it’s one thing. But when they’re that old they are getting very close to being a finished product.

Say we take him at 31 and he plays through the 5th yr option. You’re looking at an extension or franchise tag on a guy who’s older than Chris Jones is now. Unless he’s Chris Jones level he’s definitely not getting extended past that

Look at Veachs track record. It’s real. Not saying I’m 100% confident it won’t happen. But it seems very unlikely. I would say there’s a better chance at him taking a 21 y/o Gibbs. Even being a RB

staylor26 04-09-2023 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16895563)
What? A top 15 pick? LMAO

No ****ing way

Oh, he absolutely would be. Top 20 at worst.

6'5 290 and running in the mid 4.6s? With a 20%+ pass rush win rate?

He's already a consensus top 32 player, so you must believe that the age factor isn't impacting his draft status whatsoever, which makes zero sense.

JPH83 04-09-2023 01:19 PM

Foskey's stiffness really bothers me. I'm trying to convince myself it's not a big deal, I mean I can see the fit...but I just cannot get past it.

kccrow 04-09-2023 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPH83 (Post 16895774)
Foskey's stiffness really bothers me. I'm trying to convince myself it's not a big deal, I mean I can see the fit...but I just cannot get past it.

It's a power/speed-to-power league. This "bend" shit is overblown. Sure, it helps sometimes but it's not the primary trait you want in a pass rusher in the NFL. It sounds cool though.

JPH83 04-09-2023 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 16895874)
It's a power/speed-to-power league. This "bend" shit is overblown. Sure, it helps sometimes but it's not the primary trait you want in a pass rusher in the NFL. It sounds cool though.

Yeah fine, but sometimes it's quicker going around than through.

kccrow 04-09-2023 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPH83 (Post 16895888)
Yeah fine, but sometimes it's quicker going around than through.

You need a lot of things to go right in the NFL for the "around" to work out well for you. You better have a great get-off and burst with that bend too. Those guys are few. You can probably count them on one hand.

JPH83 04-09-2023 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 16895895)
You need a lot of things to go right in the NFL for the "around" to work out well for you. You better have a great get-off and burst with that bend too. Those guys are few. You can probably count them on one hand.

True, what can I say, I'm greedy/unrealistic. It's partly why i liked McDonald a lot more than most here.

JPH83 04-09-2023 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 16895895)
You need a lot of things to go right in the NFL for the "around" to work out well for you. You better have a great get-off and burst with that bend too. Those guys are few. You can probably count them on one hand.

Though I would say this applies to power somewhat too You have to have good hands, counters, a plan, nothing 1 dimensional is getting it done at this level

kccrow 04-09-2023 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPH83 (Post 16895907)
True, what can I say, I'm greedy/unrealistic. It's partly why i liked McDonald a lot more than most here.

McDonald fits the narrative. He just lacks immensely in mass and power. He's a guy that could be a Hasson Reddick rusher in this league but I think he'd be best served really going to work on building his legs up to add his mass. He has an extremely thin lower half. It's going to be a concern holding the edge against the run. That might push him down a bit more than people think because he's coming in looking like a situational pass rusher that needs to build his body. I'm not sure you take a one-trick pony in the 1st.

RunKC 04-09-2023 03:32 PM

Crow how to you compare Foskey to Hall? Hall has size (weight is 5 lbs off but everything else good), an impressive 1.59 10 yard split and shows some power and bend.

kccrow 04-09-2023 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16895919)
Crow how to you compare Foskey to Hall? Hall has size (weight is 5 lbs off but everything else good), an impressive 1.59 10 yard split and shows some power and bend.

I have Foskey ahead of Hall.

I like both, both win with power and speed-to-power. I think both lack great "bend" like JH was talking about. Both are good off the snap and both get their hands up into guys right away. I think Hall is a bit quicker, Foskey is a bit more powerful. Foskey is a better run defender. Both close well.

I just prefer Foskey's size, length, and ability to set the edge right now. Not that I would be disappointed with either. After spending more time sifting through prospects, I feel right now like Hall is a guy I'd take 63 while Foskey is a guy I'd take at 31 if that puts it in reference for you.

JPH83 04-10-2023 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 16895915)
McDonald fits the narrative. He just lacks immensely in mass and power. He's a guy that could be a Hasson Reddick rusher in this league but I think he'd be best served really going to work on building his legs up to add his mass. He has an extremely thin lower half. It's going to be a concern holding the edge against the run. That might push him down a bit more than people think because he's coming in looking like a situational pass rusher that needs to build his body. I'm not sure you take a one-trick pony in the 1st.

I think that's a completely reasonable take, and I get why someone like Foskey has more of an appeal. I think there's little doubt that from Day 1 he's getting on the field more frequently than a guy like McDonald, and that's as good a reason as any to choose Foskey. I guess my take is more focused on rounding out the skillset of our DEs overall. I just keep thinking what are we missing that would give OTs fits. Probably my ideal situation is R1 we get someone who fits the scheme, a power rusher who stones the run and offers a little pass rush, and then we double dip later with an undersized, situational speed rusher. Everyone's happy.

DJ's left nut 04-10-2023 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16895563)
What? A top 15 pick? LMAO

No ****ing way

Uh....he very well could be.

What's there not to like in his profile? Measurables, production, no character flags. He's tenacious and his tape shows a guy who will do the dirty work. He's scheme versatile to boot.

There are times I wonder why he's not a top 20 prospect already. There's just not much to complain about with him.


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