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Katipan 04-12-2023 06:49 AM

Mom is dating a big name from the Golden age of body building. Mr. Universe is about 70 yrs old and eats the same basic meals everyday. Oatmeal. Fish with tomato slices. Slab of pure protein.

Old AF. Walks sideways through doorways.

penguinz 04-12-2023 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearcat (Post 16899082)
I've been lacking motivation lately (but still dragging my ass to the gym at least a couple times per week), so I was research drop sets last night... the consensus seemed to be there isn't a ton of research out there, but can be used sparingly.

And using the same general math that I've done for sets per muscle per workout and per week, I was needing more leg sets anyway and don't have much time to do several more sets with breaks.

Did my normal leg routine and just added a couple drop sets at the end of each thing during the last sets... if nothing else, it's a nice way to empty the tank at the end of a workout. Feels good, might not be able to walk tomorrow.

I have been reading a bunch about how the idea of starting low and raising weight each set is not ideal way to build muscle/strength. They are saying to do all your working sets at your 80-85% of 1RM and work to failure on each set. Once you get your last set to be failure at 6-10 reps (whatever you set your goal to) then add weight next time and start the process over again.

Idea is to extend your time under max tension and not deal with energy depletion from light/easy reps.

One thing I have done in the past to break a plateau on legs is to throw 135 on the squat bar and try to get to 100 reps in as few sets as possible. just be ready to puke when you are done and walk like your legs are made out of rubber bands.

SupDock 04-12-2023 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16899286)
I have been reading a bunch about how the idea of starting low and raising weight each set is not ideal way to build muscle/strength. They are saying to do all your working sets at your 80-85% of 1RM and work to failure on each set. Once you get your last set to be failure at 6-10 reps (whatever you set your goal to) then add weight next time and start the process over again.

Idea is to extend your time under max tension and not deal with energy depletion from light/easy reps.

One thing I have done in the past to break a plateau on legs is to throw 135 on the squat bar and try to get to 100 reps in as few sets as possible. just be ready to puke when you are done and walk like your legs are made out of rubber bands.



I thought starting low was more about warming up. I think figuring out where you are in terms of percent of 1 RM is overstated

I can curl 40s with good form and go to failure. I can also curl 30s, go super slow, really focus on contracting hard at the top, and have the same rep range to failure as the 40s.

Focusing on your mind muscle connection, contracting hard at the end of the concentric phase and going slow on the eccentric phase is the most important.

I really don’t pay super attention to my weight, I just want to go to failure.
When I start to get over 10 reps I increase the weight.

Bearcat 04-12-2023 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16899286)
I have been reading a bunch about how the idea of starting low and raising weight each set is not ideal way to build muscle/strength. They are saying to do all your working sets at your 80-85% of 1RM and work to failure on each set. Once you get your last set to be failure at 6-10 reps (whatever you set your goal to) then add weight next time and start the process over again.

Idea is to extend your time under max tension and not deal with energy depletion from light/easy reps.

One thing I have done in the past to break a plateau on legs is to throw 135 on the squat bar and try to get to 100 reps in as few sets as possible. just be ready to puke when you are done and walk like your legs are made out of rubber bands.

I see that strategy a lot, with lower weight to start, but I've always taken it as a powerlifting thing from guys lifting far more than most.

I'll do a few uncounted reps at the very beginning of my day for a stretch/warm up, but then target 8-12 reps for everything after that. Once I hit 12, I'll up the weight a bit next time.

The drop set thing at the end won't change that, it's pretty much getting in a couple extra sets at the end without the added breaks. A couple of youtubers were mentioning it might help with different muscle fibers given the lower weight, but not enough research has been done.

Bearcat 04-12-2023 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupDock (Post 16899452)
Focusing on your mind muscle connection

I've been doing that for chest stuff lately.. lightening the weight on a few things and adding a couple of movements that feel chestier than others.

JohnnyHammersticks 04-12-2023 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupDock (Post 16898929)
Hmmm

Putting on that much muscle mass while simultaneously losing weight seems unlikely when natural.

Congrats on the body recomp, but P90x never struck me as being optimized for gains. It’s more for functional strength and athleticism. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

One can definitely gain some muscle while cutting, but your deficit needs to be minimal. Most people lose minimal weight while “main-gaining” because their muscle gain is mostly balanced with fat loss, so they maintain somewhat weight neutral.

Is your goal to lose weight, or to put on muscle?

I have learned to hard way that your attention to your macros needs to match your effort in the gym.


Sorry if I am giving unwanted advice.

My goal is both to lose weight AND put on muscle. Totally naturally, I would never do 'roids. I'm not even using a recovery drink or any protein supplements. Just eating clean food with lots of protein. Chicken breasts, turkey, and for snacks unsalted nuts.

I've very fortunately been blessed with a fast metabolism, so as long as I'm working out daily and not eating pints of ice cream every night along with other crap like chips and pizzas I lose weight pretty easily. If I fast while still drinking water I lose 2-4 lbs in 24 hours.

Like I mentioned in the first post, the only other time I've done P90X with the full diet I went from 203 to 178 while getting noticeably bigger. At least an inch on biceps, bigger shoulders, chest, and legs. I figure I put on 10 lbs of muscle at least. So simple math would suggest I lost ~35 lbs of fat when I lost 25 lbs the first time I did the workouts along with the diet. That absolutely blew my mind because I wasn't completely disgusting-looking at 203.

SupDock 04-12-2023 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyHammersticks (Post 16899493)
My goal is both to lose weight AND put on muscle. Totally naturally, I would never do 'roids. I'm not even using a recovery drink or any protein supplements. Just eating clean food with lots of protein. Chicken breasts, turkey, and for snacks unsalted nuts.

I've very fortunately been blessed with a fast metabolism, so as long as I'm working out daily and not eating pints of ice cream every night along with other crap like chips and pizzas I lose weight pretty easily. If I fast while still drinking water I lose 2-4 lbs in 24 hours.

Like I mentioned in the first post, the only other time I've done P90X with the full diet I went from 203 to 178 while getting noticeably bigger. At least an inch on biceps, bigger shoulders, chest, and legs. I figure I put on 10 lbs of muscle at least. So simple math would suggest I lost ~35 lbs of fat when I lost 25 lbs the first time I did the workouts along with the diet. That absolutely blew my mind because I wasn't completely disgusting-looking at 203.


That’s awesome man. Keep getting it!

SupDock 04-12-2023 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearcat (Post 16899478)
I see that strategy a lot, with lower weight to start, but I've always taken it as a powerlifting thing from guys lifting far more than most.

I'll do a few uncounted reps at the very beginning of my day for a stretch/warm up, but then target 8-12 reps for everything after that. Once I hit 12, I'll up the weight a bit next time.

The drop set thing at the end won't change that, it's pretty much getting in a couple extra sets at the end without the added breaks. A couple of youtubers were mentioning it might help with different muscle fibers given the lower weight, but not enough research has been done.


That makes sense to me. As long as you are hitting 10 sets per muscle group per week with somewhere in the range of 6-12 reps and being close to failure you are doing enough. More is better, but there are diminishing returns especially if you are going over 20 sets per week.

Marcellus 04-13-2023 08:45 AM

Go to the 22:00 min mark in this video and start listening and you will realize pretty much everything you believe about carbs and fat is wrong along with many long held beliefs in what types of diets and training burn more fat etc....

Its fairly technical and I've re-listened to many parts of it but I find it fascinating. Dr. Galpin trains a lot of profession athletes along a wide spectrum of sports along with teaching at Cal State Fullerton.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/oNkDA2F7CjM" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Edit: It does however explain why so many different types of diets and exercise programs are effective.

Mr_Tomahawk 04-13-2023 08:48 AM

I fast about 18 hours and exercise (moderately) daily. I have lost about 14 pounds in the last 2 months.

hasn't been too bad. Moderation in what I eat, has made a big impact, I believe.

penguinz 05-08-2023 01:46 PM

Any one use MK-2886? it tastes like battery acid with a hint of metal and garlic.

loochy 06-11-2023 11:07 AM

I've been using semaglutide since february to curb cravings while in caloric deficit. It's made it easy to not snack between meals....I feel full after eating for a long time. Its working well, abs are in after letting things go too far last fall.


Anyone else use it? I really like it. I've had zero sides other than a bit of nausea when I was first figuring out my dose.

scho63 06-11-2023 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katipan (Post 16899106)
Mom is dating a big name from the Golden age of body building. Mr. Universe is about 70 yrs old and eats the same basic meals everyday. Oatmeal. Fish with tomato slices. Slab of pure protein.

Old AF. Walks sideways through doorways.

Franco Columbu or Frank Zane or Lee Haney or Lee Labrada?

Ironically I was both a friend and my client was former champion Franco Santoriello from Toms River. We grew up together.

He went through a real bad period with drugs and is now born-again.

He was only like 5' 7" but had one of the greatest symmetrical physiques in bodybuilding history.

scho63 06-11-2023 11:18 AM

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wFSKkBNd0...ntoriello2.jpg

PAChiefsGuy 06-11-2023 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scho63 (Post 16977389)

That's one strong, dedicated mfer

In58men 06-11-2023 11:41 AM

Been feeling like a beast lately, just hit 315 on squats 2x. Bench is a little weak, hit 285 for one rep and 365 on deadlifts. I switched from long bar to hex bar while doing deadlifts now. Not worth the injury and pain.

Was able to throw up 90lb dummy’s for some incline press, so hit the 100 lb club hopefully this month, but I’m taking it very slow.

penguinz 06-11-2023 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by In58men (Post 16977411)
Been feeling like a beast lately, just hit 315 on squats 2x. Bench is a little weak, hit 285 for one rep and 365 on deadlifts. I switched from long bar to hex bar while doing deadlifts now. Not worth the injury and pain.

Was able to throw up 90lb dummy’s for some incline press, so hit the 100 lb club hopefully this month, but I’m taking it very slow.

If you are using locked in form then you are less likely to get injured using a deadlift bar vs a trap bar. Trap bar limits your range of motion.

I went to a personal trainer that specializes in power/strongman lifting and got form dialed in perfectly. Once that happened it actually reduced a significant hip and lower back pain I was going through.

scho63 06-11-2023 12:28 PM

I just bought the supplement Taurine. Total of 100 capsules of 1000mgs. One per day.

Supposed to be great for nerves, heart, brain and bones. Extending life of animals by 10%+ in clinical tests with no side effects.

Will see what happens. Hopefully my dick doesn't shrivel up or stay limp.

In58men 06-11-2023 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16977456)
If you are using locked in form then you are less likely to get injured using a deadlift bar vs a trap bar. Trap bar limits your range of motion.

I went to a personal trainer that specializes in power/strongman lifting and got form dialed in perfectly. Once that happened it actually reduced a significant hip and lower back pain I was going through.

What do you mean by locked in form? Locking my elbows and knees when lifting?

penguinz 06-12-2023 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by In58men (Post 16977895)
What do you mean by locked in form? Locking my elbows and knees when lifting?

No, having your form be perfect to near perfect on the lift. Most people do not brace properly as well as engage lats properly.

Many also extend too far back thrusting hips forward at the top of the lift. Good way to destroy lower back.

Mixed grip is also not a great idea. Puts your shoulders in an uneven position which can lead to injury as well.

This guy has some really good tutorials on lifting and proper form.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5MHXZj_F0bY" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In58men 06-12-2023 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16978268)
No, having your form be perfect to near perfect on the lift. Most people do not brace properly as well as engage lats properly.

Many also extend too far back thrusting hips forward at the top of the lift. Good way to destroy lower back.

Mixed grip is also not a great idea. Puts your shoulders in an uneven position which can lead to injury as well.

This guy has some really good tutorials on lifting and proper form.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5MHXZj_F0bY" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Awesome video, I definitely extend my back too far. My lower back has been killing me these past couple months. Chiropractor seems to be helping, just need to focus on proper technique. Thanks for posting.

penguinz 06-12-2023 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by In58men (Post 16978649)
Awesome video, I definitely extend my back too far. My lower back has been killing me these past couple months. Chiropractor seems to be helping, just need to focus on proper technique. Thanks for posting.

Check out his other videos as well. He can come across like a d-bag at times but he really knows his shit.

JohnnyHammersticks 06-12-2023 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyHammersticks (Post 16898460)
Just finished the first 30 days of my latest P90X 3-month body reset. Doing the diet too. Eating mainly chicken breasts and steamed veggies.

I'm just a hair over 6 ft and I've dropped from 204 to 193 so far, and that's with a little added muscle. In the past the weight has really started coming off in days 30-90, so I feel like I'm headed in the right direction. That's also when most of the muscle-building happened.

Hoping to drop about 25 more while putting on about 10 more lbs of muscle. Went from 203 to 178 the last time I did the full 90 days with the diet, so that's what I'm using for a benchmark this time.

Finished on schedule yesterday. Didn't miss a workout for 90 days and did the diet. 204lbs on 3/13/23 to 182 yesterday. Put on quite a bit of muscle. Before/after pics are dramatic. Before is honestly frightening, after is pretty shredded.

No injuries until I tweaked my knee with 10 days left, but not badly enough to miss a workout.

So freaking ready to pig out. Not a single bite of pizza or ice cream for 3 months. Lived on chicken breasts, steamed veggies, turkey sandwiches, salads, energy bars, and an Outshine fruit popsicle if I had to have a sugar fix. Gates Extra Hot sauce on the chicken every night was the only thing that kept me from going nuts.

Now I can coast for awhile. Maintaining is a lot easier than getting there.

ThaVirus 06-12-2023 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyHammersticks (Post 16978768)
Finished on schedule yesterday. Didn't miss a workout for 90 days and did the diet. 204lbs on 3/13/23 to 182 yesterday. Put on quite a bit of muscle. Before/after pics are dramatic. Before is honestly frightening, after is pretty shredded.

No injuries until I tweaked my knee with 10 days left, but not badly enough to miss a workout.

So freaking ready to pig out. Not a single bite of pizza or ice cream for 3 months. Lived on chicken breasts, steamed veggies, turkey sandwiches, salads, energy bars, and an Outshine fruit popsicle if I had to have a sugar fix. Gates Extra Hot sauce on the chicken every night was the only thing that kept me from going nuts.

Now I can coast for awhile. Maintaining is a lot easier than getting there.

Post pics, you sexy bitch.

JohnnyHammersticks 06-12-2023 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus (Post 16978781)
Post pics, you sexy bitch.

I look so damn sexy that if I posted the 'after' pic Katipan, BEP, and Billay wouldn't be able to get any work done for the next 6 months, and Billay just started a new job.

But joking aside, no one wants to see that 'before' pic. Trust me on that.

mdchiefsfan 06-12-2023 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 16900454)
Go to the 22:00 min mark in this video and start listening and you will realize pretty much everything you believe about carbs and fat is wrong along with many long held beliefs in what types of diets and training burn more fat etc....

Its fairly technical and I've re-listened to many parts of it but I find it fascinating. Dr. Galpin trains a lot of profession athletes along a wide spectrum of sports along with teaching at Cal State Fullerton.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/oNkDA2F7CjM" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Edit: It does however explain why so many different types of diets and exercise programs are effective.

This is some really good info. Have to take it in chunks, as it is very in-depth, but I will be following this podcast. Thank you for sharing.

penguinz 06-13-2023 09:20 AM

Pulled 365 raw yesterday. Feels good to start seeing strength coming back after a year of recovering from unrelated injuries.

Bearcat 06-13-2023 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 16900454)
Go to the 22:00 min mark in this video and start listening and you will realize pretty much everything you believe about carbs and fat is wrong along with many long held beliefs in what types of diets and training burn more fat etc....

Its fairly technical and I've re-listened to many parts of it but I find it fascinating. Dr. Galpin trains a lot of profession athletes along a wide spectrum of sports along with teaching at Cal State Fullerton.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/oNkDA2F7CjM" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Edit: It does however explain why so many different types of diets and exercise programs are effective.

I'll definitely have to re-listen to some of it... he's not amazing to listen to, heh.

Some of the time it's all "nobody know anything, this is how it is" and "it's all very simple" and then he'll also deep dive on things and go on tangents that aren't anywhere near answering the question.

I get the feeling he wants everyone to know how much he knows versus trying to educate, but I'm sure there are some good points in there for research, if nothing else.

I skipped around a bit and he mentioned the body wanting to burn fat for energy after a workout while storing carbs (since you're generally low on carbs).... thought that was interesting (at least until he said the after burn effect is minimal and doesn't really matter LMAO).

I just watched a Jeff Nippard video on metabolism and his thoughts echoed what this guy was saying... building muscle is good, but the effects on metabolism isn't amazing per day (it could be per year, or over the course of years), and not what people once thought. Jeff mentioned adding 30lbs of muscle over 5 years and used that as an example to budge metabolism.

In58men 06-13-2023 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16979467)
Pulled 365 raw yesterday. Feels good to start seeing strength coming back after a year of recovering from unrelated injuries.

That’s my PR, depending how I feel I might try for 385 today. Just gotta take it slow, lower back hurts quite a bit.

penguinz 06-13-2023 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by In58men (Post 16979602)
That’s my PR, depending how I feel I might try for 385 today. Just gotta take it slow, lower back hurts quite a bit.

My goal is at least 405. Going to try and hit the 1000lb club and if I can get to 405 on deads then it is virtually a given to hit the mark.

loochy 06-13-2023 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16979467)
Pulled 365 raw yesterday. Feels good to start seeing strength coming back after a year of recovering from unrelated injuries.


That's the weight that I tore my lat with. It was nothing close to a 1rm either....I could do it for 8 or so and it all went to shit on the first rep, about an inch off the floor.


That happened last august. I haven't done any DLs off the floor since. I just recently started doing rack pulls to maybe at least build a little thickness back. My upper back and shoulder blade area is noticeably thinner since I stopped.

penguinz 06-13-2023 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loochy (Post 16979745)
That's the weight that I tore my lat with. It was nothing close to a 1rm either....I could do it for 8 or so and it all went to shit on the first rep, about an inch off the floor.

Mixed grip?

loochy 06-13-2023 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16979751)
Mixed grip?


Nope, double OH. I've been scared of mixed grip after seeing so many bicep tears because of it. When I went to pull off the floor it was just a pop pop pop in my left shoulder.


Doc wouldn't operate on it. He said it's a really rare injury and he only knew one surgeon that had even fixed one before, which was all the way down in Houston. He recommended just living with it since I'm not a competitive athlete.


The bad thing is that now I'm having a lot of shoulder problems now because of imbalance between push and pull. I have to make a conscious effort to keep my left shoulder retracted back and down in almost every motion I do. If I let it drift up or forward, it catches and crackles.

penguinz 06-13-2023 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loochy (Post 16979759)
Nope, double OH. I've been scared of mixed grip after seeing so many bicep tears because of it. When I went to pull off the floor it was just a pop pop pop in my left shoulder.


Doc wouldn't operate on it. He said it's a really rare injury and he only knew one surgeon that had even fixed one before, which was all the way down in Houston. He recommended just living with it since I'm not a competitive athlete.


The bad thing is that now I'm having a lot of shoulder problems now because of imbalance between push and pull. I have to make a conscious effort to keep my left shoulder retracted back and down in almost every motion I do. If I let it drift up or forward, it catches and crackles.

Same, I have seen too many bicep tears from the mixed grip. To me it doesn't even feel good to grip mixed.

I hook grip. I am lucky to have a really strong grip.

With having part of my clavicle removed I have to be extra conscious to not let that shoulder roll forward. It sucks but has also forced me to spend the extra time to get form locked in.

loochy 06-13-2023 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16979773)
With having part of my clavicle removed I have to be extra conscious to not let that shoulder roll forward. It sucks but has also forced me to spend the extra time to get form locked in.


How's benching and chest movements? Those are the hardest for me...the chest contraction causes an almost automatic roll forward. I haven't benched more than 75s pain free for the last year.

SupDock 06-13-2023 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16979773)
Same, I have seen too many bicep tears from the mixed grip. To me it doesn't even feel good to grip mixed.

I hook grip. I am lucky to have a really strong grip.

With having part of my clavicle removed I have to be extra conscious to not let that shoulder roll forward. It sucks but has also forced me to spend the extra time to get form locked in.

I started deadlifting about 6 months ago. My grip has been the big limiter. Trying to minimize straps and I have definitely seen progress, but not pulling nearly what you all are. I am trying hook grip but it hurts a little bit

I’m able to pull 245 or so with straps

Rams Fan 06-13-2023 12:25 PM

Benched 315 on Saturday.

Gonna focus on training to run a marathon in December now.

loochy 06-13-2023 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupDock (Post 16979793)
I started deadlifting about 6 months ago. My grip has been the big limiter. Trying to minimize straps and I have definitely seen progress, but not pulling nearly what you all are. I am trying hook grip but it hurts a little bit

I’m able to pull 245 or so with straps


I never could do hook grip. To me, it hurts like a bitch and it feels weird to the point of distracting the lift.

loochy 06-13-2023 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan (Post 16979799)
Benched 315 on Saturday.

Gonna focus on training to run a marathon in December now.


You're going to run off all of your newly gained strength!

penguinz 06-13-2023 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loochy (Post 16979780)
How's benching and chest movements? Those are the hardest for me...the chest contraction causes an almost automatic roll forward. I haven't benched more than 75s pain free for the last year.

Takes a lot of physical and mental energy to keep the shoulder back. I keep a slingshot with me for those days that it is a struggle.

Most I have pushed raw on bench is 265 since getting back to the gym. PR before injuries was 315.

Rams Fan 06-13-2023 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loochy (Post 16979813)
You're going to run off all of your newly gained strength!

Weight crept up to 240 currently within the past year, which is not where I usually am (usually am around 215-225).

Trying to slim down to 190-200 long-term, so focusing on changing what I put in my body (less alcohol and sweets) as well as exercise. With being 5'10", 240 is too much on me and I don't like the way I look.

Was nice to bench 315 though. Will probably still lift twice a week just to get some reps. Would love to maintain my strength but doubt I will if I'm focusing on distance running.

I hiked down and back in the Grand Canyon last year (18 miles total), which was pure hell. So, hopefully running a marathon isn't worse than that.

loochy 06-13-2023 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16979825)
Takes a lot of physical and mental energy to keep the shoulder back. I keep a slingshot with me for those days that it is a struggle.

Most I have pushed raw on bench is 265 since getting back to the gym. PR before injuries was 315.


Did you get the red slingshot or the blue one? I have the red one, but it's almost too strong. I can't even really feel anything until I get 225 on the bar. Also, the arm holes are too small...I don't huge arms or anything, but I figured that these things were made with thick powerlifters in mind.

loochy 06-13-2023 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan (Post 16979864)
Weight crept up to 240 currently within the past year, which is not where I usually am (usually am around 215-225).

Trying to slim down to 190-200 long-term, so focusing on changing what I put in my body (less alcohol and sweets) as well as exercise. With being 5'10", 240 is too much on me and I don't like the way I look.

Was nice to bench 315 though. Will probably still lift twice a week just to get some reps. Would love to maintain my strength but doubt I will if I'm focusing on distance running.

I hiked down and back in the Grand Canyon last year (18 miles total), which was pure hell. So, hopefully running a marathon isn't worse than that.


Well, good luck.

I'd love a big long Grand Canyon hike and I would hate running a marathon more than anything.

Rams Fan 06-13-2023 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loochy (Post 16979890)
Well, good luck.

I'd love a big long Grand Canyon hike and I would hate running a marathon more than anything.

Thanks.

I’d love to hike the Canyon again, but I’ve never put myself through such physical hell. It was awesome, but last 2-3 miles with ice at the top was ass.

penguinz 06-13-2023 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loochy (Post 16979884)
Did you get the red slingshot or the blue one? I have the red one, but it's almost too strong. I can't even really feel anything until I get 225 on the bar. Also, the arm holes are too small...I don't huge arms or anything, but I figured that these things were made with thick powerlifters in mind.

I have the red. I start my lifts at 225, i do a couple reps of just bar and then a couple 135 as warmup/setting position, so being stronger than the blue isn't a big deal for me.

It is tight. I got the next size up from what it recommended so it could be worse.

ThaVirus 06-13-2023 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan (Post 16979864)
Weight crept up to 240 currently within the past year, which is not where I usually am (usually am around 215-225).

Trying to slim down to 190-200 long-term, so focusing on changing what I put in my body (less alcohol and sweets) as well as exercise. With being 5'10", 240 is too much on me and I don't like the way I look.

Was nice to bench 315 though. Will probably still lift twice a week just to get some reps. Would love to maintain my strength but doubt I will if I'm focusing on distance running.

I hiked down and back in the Grand Canyon last year (18 miles total), which was pure hell. So, hopefully running a marathon isn't worse than that.

My opinion doesn't mean dick, but I think you've got the right of it.

I don't know much about your body composition but at 5'10" you really shouldn't be above 200 for your long-term health. You're better off slimming down than focusing on strength.

Marcellus 06-13-2023 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rams Fan (Post 16979864)
Weight crept up to 240 currently within the past year, which is not where I usually am (usually am around 215-225).

Trying to slim down to 190-200 long-term, so focusing on changing what I put in my body (less alcohol and sweets) as well as exercise. With being 5'10", 240 is too much on me and I don't like the way I look.

Was nice to bench 315 though. Will probably still lift twice a week just to get some reps. Would love to maintain my strength but doubt I will if I'm focusing on distance running.

I hiked down and back in the Grand Canyon last year (18 miles total), which was pure hell. So, hopefully running a marathon isn't worse than that.

5'10 225 is still pretty big.

I'm 5'11 185 right now and can bench around 290, working on getting back to 300 in the next month or so.

And I'm also training for a marathon in November. Its a tough balance for certain but I've benched 300 and ran a 3:20 marathon in the same 6-8 month time period back in 2018 so hope I can do it again except in the same month this time. (5 years older as well ugh)

Rams Fan 06-13-2023 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThaVirus (Post 16979962)
My opinion doesn't mean dick, but I think you've got the right of it.

I don't know much about your body composition but at 5'10" you really shouldn't be above 200 for your long-term health. You're better off slimming down than focusing on strength.

100% agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcellus (Post 16979976)
5'10 225 is still pretty big.

I'm 5'11 185 right now and can bench around 290, working on getting back to 300 in the next month or so.

And I'm also training for a marathon in November. Its a tough balance for certain but I've benched 300 and ran a 3:20 marathon in the same 6-8 month time period back in 2018 so hope I can do it again except in the same month this time. (5 years older as well ugh)

Yeah, 215-225 isn’t where I want to be but where I’ve seemed to settle without serious changes to diet.

And good luck!

penguinz 06-13-2023 05:00 PM

Quality shoulder and trap session today. Other than I care barely lift arms high enough to feed myself now.

In58men 06-13-2023 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16980239)
Quality shoulder and trap session today. Other than I care barely lift arms high enough to feed myself now.

Do you think the Arnold press is effective?

penguinz 06-13-2023 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by In58men (Post 16980247)
Do you think the Arnold press is effective?

I don't personally like it. I would rather take the extra time to isolate each head.

loochy 06-13-2023 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by In58men (Post 16980247)
Do you think the Arnold press is effective?

Sure, if you take the time to feel and contract your deltoids. I'd say it's no better or worse than any other overhead press movement. It's what you make out of it and what agrees with your unique anatomy.

So you tell us if it's effective for you.

SupDock 06-13-2023 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loochy (Post 16980389)
Sure, if you take the time to feel and contract your deltoids. I'd say it's no better or worse than any other overhead press movement. It's what you make out of it and what agrees with your unique anatomy.

So you tell us if it's effective for you.

I’m not sure how I feel about it. I think the compound ROM makes it a little tougher on heavy loads, but maybe that’s a good thing.

The front delt is hardly ever lacking on people, so I’m not totally sure what advantage it has over standard OHP.

I mix it in on occasion.

penguinz 06-14-2023 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupDock (Post 16980543)
I’m not sure how I feel about it. I think the compound ROM makes it a little tougher on heavy loads, but maybe that’s a good thing.

The front delt is hardly ever lacking on people, so I’m not totally sure what advantage it has over standard OHP.

I mix it in on occasion.

Arnold press shouldn't be done under heavy load. it should be a light to moderate for reps exercise.

What about Lu Raises? I can't stand them. Even before my shoulders were f'd there was too much cracking and popping for me.

loochy 06-14-2023 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16980814)
Arnold press shouldn't be done under heavy load. it should be a light to moderate for reps exercise.


I don't see how it could be done under heavy load. That bottom stretch position would be impossible to hold with heavy weight. Also, the transition from being in front of you to going overhead makes it hard to manage balance. I don't see how you could do it heavy.

penguinz 06-14-2023 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loochy (Post 16980827)
I don't see how it could be done under heavy load. That bottom stretch position would be impossible to hold with heavy weight. Also, the transition from being in front of you to going overhead makes it hard to manage balance. I don't see how you could do it heavy.

Just thinking about that I can feel the tissue tearing in my shoulders. :eek:

SupDock 06-14-2023 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16980878)
Just thinking about that I can feel the tissue tearing in my shoulders. :eek:

So then what is the point of the exercise, if not progressive overload?

loochy 06-14-2023 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupDock (Post 16980948)
So then what is the point of the exercise, if not progressive overload?


Progressive overload can mean more reps too. To me, "heavy load" means < 8 reps, and I don't feel that the balancing act required by arnold presses is ideal for that rep range. I work with the assumption that every working set is done to failure or very near it, so even a "light set" still entails progressive overload.

penguinz 06-14-2023 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupDock (Post 16980948)
So then what is the point of the exercise, if not progressive overload?

The goal of the arnold press is for hypertrophy and symmetrical growth of all three heads. Not meant to be a strength building lift. Purely just for improving aesthetics for bodybuilding.

loochy 06-14-2023 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16980975)
The goal of the arnold press is for hypertrophy and symmetrical growth of all three heads. Not meant to be a strength building lift. Purely just for improving aesthetics for bodybuilding.


Well, I can't imagine it does much for rear delts

SupDock 06-14-2023 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loochy (Post 16980966)
Progressive overload can mean more reps too. To me, "heavy load" means < 8 reps, and I don't feel that the balancing act required by arnold presses is ideal for that rep range. I work with the assumption that every working set is done to failure or very near it, so even a "light set" still entails progressive overload.

I see your point, but I thought ideally you should have failure in the 5-12 rep range for hypertrophy, so I would chose two separate exercises rather than a compound movement with an awkward transition.

SupDock 06-14-2023 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loochy (Post 16980979)
Well, I can't imagine it does much for rear delts

It doesn’t. And rarely is the front delt undertrained, which is why I’m not the biggest fan of the Arnold press.

loochy 06-14-2023 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupDock (Post 16980984)
I see your point, but I thought ideally you should have failure in the 5-12 rep range for hypertrophy, so I would chose two separate exercises rather than a compound movement with an awkward transition.


Exactly, so would I. My original point is that it might work well for some people. I am not one of those people.

penguinz 06-14-2023 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loochy (Post 16980979)
Well, I can't imagine it does much for rear delts

If done correctly it hits the rear delt. Most people I see in the gym doing them do not do them correctly so there is no resistance for the rear delt.

loochy 06-14-2023 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16980993)
If done correctly it hits the rear delt. Most people I see in the gym doing them do not do them correctly so there is no resistance for the rear delt.


How, aside from overall shoulder stabilization? Look at the origins and insertions. The purpose of the rear delt is to draw the arm down and back.

penguinz 06-14-2023 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loochy (Post 16980994)
How, aside from overall shoulder stabilization? Look at the origins and insertions. The purpose of the rear delt is to draw the arm down and back.

Starting position with hands in front of face, as you press up and you horizontally abduct the shoulder it engages the rear delt.

loochy 06-14-2023 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16981000)
Starting position with hands in front of face, as you press up and you horizontally abduct the shoulder it engages the rear delt.


Meh, sounds pretty minimal, as you are contracting horizontally and not against the direction of gravity.

penguinz 06-14-2023 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loochy (Post 16981010)
Meh, sounds pretty minimal, as you are contracting horizontally and not against the direction of gravity.

Then you are not doing the lift correctly. Abduction should happen as you press up. All as one continuous motion. Not before pressing like you see most do.

loochy 06-14-2023 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16981014)
Then you are not doing the lift correctly. Abduction should happen as you press up. All as one continuous motion. Not before pressing like you see most do.


But the rear delt is still not contracting against the weight. The weight is pressing downward because of gravity (see the red arrows). Sure, you're getting a contraction of the rear delt (green arrows) as you rotate the weight from the front to the sides as you raise it, but the contraction is pretty much better than it would be just contracting it against no weight at all because you're working perpendicular to gravity. Of course the front and side delts are fully working (blue arrow) directly against gravity, which actually causes the rear delts to stretch to a degree.


My point is to not do this exercise and expect it to do anything to grow a rear delt.


EDIT: Damnit, my work internet won't let me upload the little diagram that I drew.

penguinz 06-14-2023 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loochy (Post 16981030)
But the rear delt is still not contracting against the weight. The weight is pressing downward because of gravity (see the red arrows). Sure, you're getting a contraction of the rear delt (green arrows) as you rotate the weight from the front to the sides as you raise it, but the contraction is pretty much better than it would be just contracting it against no weight at all because you're working perpendicular to gravity. Of course the front and side delts are fully working (blue arrow) directly against gravity, which actually causes the rear delts to stretch to a degree.


My point is to not do this exercise and expect it to do anything to grow a rear delt.


EDIT: Damnit, my work internet won't let me upload the little diagram that I drew.

I completely agree. Not enough resistance to matter. I was just explaining the idea behind the lift.

More reason to just isolate.

In58men 06-19-2023 08:01 PM

Hit 315 on squats today, which is a PR. Did 2 reps, but the 2nd rep I didn’t get low enough. My goal is to hit it 5 times before the end of summer.

penguinz 06-20-2023 11:13 AM

Pulled a 405 standard dead yesterday. Only equipment was straps. No belt, suit or knee wraps. Was easy once it broke from the ground. I think I could have gone another 15-20lbs if I pushed it.

On target to hit the 1000lb club by end of the year.

In58men 06-20-2023 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16988012)
Pulled a 405 standard dead yesterday. Only equipment was straps. No belt, suit or knee wraps. Was easy once it broke from the ground. I think I could have gone another 15-20lbs if I pushed it.

On target to hit the 1000lb club by end of the year.

I need 45lbs to go and I’ll be there

penguinz 06-20-2023 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by In58men (Post 16988041)
I need 45lbs to go and I’ll be there

I haven't tried to go heavy on squats yet so I could be there. I have pushed 265 raw on bench so would only need a 330 squat. Tomorrow is legs so might push it and see how it goes.

In58men 06-20-2023 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16988080)
I haven't tried to go heavy on squats yet so I could be there. I have pushed 265 raw on bench so would only need a 330 squat. Tomorrow is legs so might push it and see how it goes.

I’m 285 on bench raw, flat back not arched.

penguinz 06-20-2023 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by In58men (Post 16988127)
I’m 285 on bench raw, flat back not arched.

Flatback as well. If I did the powerlifting arch I could easily top 300.

loochy 06-20-2023 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16988195)
Flatback as well. If I did the powerlifting arch I could easily top 300.

O god, the powerlifting arch...LMAO


It's the worst when they're painfully skinny, take the widest grip possible, and arch so high that there is literally 2 inches of actual bar travel, all to bench something paltry like 225.


closely followed by the sumo deadlift

penguinz 06-20-2023 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loochy (Post 16988200)
O god, the powerlifting arch...LMAO


It's the worst when they're painfully skinny, take the widest grip possible, and arch so high that there is literally 2 inches of actual bar travel, all to bench something paltry like 225.


closely followed by the sumo deadlift

But they updated the rules and now they are at 3" travel!

Don't get me started on sumo deadlift.

In58men 06-20-2023 02:49 PM

Fake it until you make it

In58men 06-25-2023 06:14 PM

Just hit PR on deadlifts, 385. Need 15 more lbs for the 1000lb club.

Thought I’d share :D


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