If you think the team is one bat away, you're more optimistic than I.

no, O’Neill continues to progress and lay off the slider, Carlson continues to progress, Gorman continues to progress etc. then you add a Middle of the order bat and then and only then can you compete with the big boys.

Good win, tonight. TOL has been very impressive during his hitting streak. Good to see that Goldy is also warming up. And Nolan bring Nolan. He was my favorite baseball player watching him here in Denver for years. I just love his approach to the game and he’s incredibly consistent.

Now Nightingale in the USA Today is saying we should trade Gorman for Max Scherzer. Even if it’s for 2 months. Gorman has an All-Star ceiling. We need his bat in the lineup going forward. 2 months? If Scherzer signed to finish his career here, okay. Otherwise, GTFO with a rental.

This is the shit I’ve been railing against the last couple of weeks. Sure, Scherzer still is at the top of his game. But, why would he sign up here past those two months. He wanted to come here and Mo was an idiot. He can sign anywhere. Do players still give hometown discounts? Cant remember the last player????

It’s behind a paywall on USA Today's website so no link.

Well, the first move you make is firing Mos pathetic ass then you fire Shildt. At that point, you have already helped the team.

If we trade Gorman, I will be irate. We need cheap, young talent since Mo can't figure out veteran contracts.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">John Gant has walked the bases loaded. <br><br>But!<br><br>Nolan Gorman has homered four times in two games (and the second game is only in the top of the third). <a href="https://t.co/kcNw5S0Y2u">https://t.co/kcNw5S0Y2u</a></p>&mdash; Katie Woo (@katiejwoo) <a href="https://twitter.com/katiejwoo/status/1403864951299661826?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 13, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

3 jacks now today. In the 4th inning.

My potential legit lineup for 2022 is looking better and better. :thumb:

Man, the wheels really fell off this season in a hurry.

He still has a lot to prove. Let's see him doing this at the Triple A level consistently before he is crowned anything.

oh yeah, I agree. That 2022 line up had a lot of “if’s” in it. O’Neill continues to lay off the outside slider. Carlson continues to develop. If Gorman continues on his path. If Arenado doesn't opt-out. If they sign a middle of the order bat… etc.etc.

If, if and more if’s. But….. there is potentially a legit 2022 lineup.

Do you really think that Mo is going to sign a middle of the order bat and more, improved, pitching? I have no faith that he will do those things.

I thought Arenado would put the Cards over the top this season.

When you have four starting pitchers out for significant parts of the season, Babe Ruth couldn't fix this team.

Don’t panic and trade away more bats

They’ve shown they can develop some starting pitching

What's this gonna make it, 0-6 vs the Cubs on the year?

we have a lack of talent. We are not one pitcher away from a World Series. Anyone trading a worthy piece with us is going to demand Gorman +. We need Gorman for 6 years, not a starting pitcher rental.

I wish, but no. You guys did win one game in St. Louis so you're 1-5.

I believe I said it when you guys got Arenado that I didn't think he made your team a winner. The Cardinals looked a lot like what I've been watching for the last 3 years, a couple decent bats in the middle of the lineup and 1 quality pitcher surrounded by a whole bunch of question marks.

Looking at Arenado's contract I don't believe he'll opt out but I don't think he was too happy with the Rockies and if the Cardinals don't make moves to improve the team he just might opt out.

Weren't there a couple deals involving Carlson a couple years ago that seemed pretty good but you were like no he's untouchable? Would you make those trades today if they were offered? He's not a good defender and he's looking like a league average bat.

The Cubs traded a better prospect than anything you have for a rental closer to win a WS and I wouldn't take it back.

Not apples to apples.

You had several top prospects already playing at a high level. Giving up 1 of 6 top prospects that were already playing at Wrigley to win a WS for the first time in 100+ years was a move any team would have made.

Gorman is the only player we have that could possibly be at a Bryant/Baez/Rizzo level. We need more of those, not trade away the only one we have currently.

Isn't/wasnt Carlson a higher rated prospect?

I don't think Arenado is going to hang around through 2 opt outs hoping a guy in AA is the difference maker. He might stick around this offseason on the promise that the Cardinals make moves because this FA is pretty loaded, but they better actually make the moves.

Yes, Carlson has an All-Star ceiling too but he doesnt look to be a basher.


I've heard that there is not a 2nd year opt-out. There is only the one this year. The MLB PA wanted a 2nd year. But, who knows if thats true? Regardless, if you have talent, and your not happy, opt-out or not, you can get yourself traded in MLB.

He had only one opt out. He agreed to waive his NTC to be traded to the Cardinals and in return the Cardinals had to agree to give him a second opt out. He can opt out after this year or next year.

He said its unlikely he'll use either of them because its probably unlikely he'll get more money, but he was also rumored to want a trade because the Rockies didn't make good on their promise to spend money to try and win. I can see him changing his tune on those opt outs if he sees the same shit coming from the Cardinals.

Yes, thats what was reported at the time but several times when asked about the 2nd year, everyone is very vague or don't give a straight answer to the 2nd year question.

It's literally reported in every publication of the deal. It's not even a question. He has 2 opt outs.

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/st-louis...arenado-12643/

And here's fangraphs breaking it all down and discussing the odds of him opting out:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/valuing-...-new-contract/

TLDR: if he stays on ZiPS projections they give him an 79.4% chance of not opting out. If he improves and doesn't follow along the standard age curve regression they give him 49.5% chance of not opting out. In the end, if he improves, they just expect him to leverage his opt outs like Kershaw and get the Cardinals to give him a new deal.

As it stands, Arenado is well on pace to go way past his ZiPS projection of 3.5 WAR for 2021. He's already at 2. Assuming he doesn't get injured and plays at least 150 games he's on pace for 4.6 WAR.

Bunch of mental midgets on this team. Carlson not sliding like an idiot cost them the tying run.

why should they play sharp baseball? Management allowed Carp to continue to have AB’s for 2 ****ing years hitting <.100.

The players that give them the best chance to win are not on the field. Talk about sending the wrong message. Why play your best when management doesn’t care if the best team is on the field?

We might actually win one tonight.

At least this year we are beating the teams that we should beat. But..... we cant beat or hang with the good teams consistently. Way too much talent discrepancy between us and those top teams.

So Waino is the first to admit to using a foreign substance in 2019. He goes public because there is physical evidence he paid the guy for “kale”. Now he’s singing to MLB about the pitchers he supplied the substance too. Your busted. You confess. That doesn’t make Waino a “stand up” guy.

I dont think its particularly stand up of him but I tell you it makes me think if Waino was doing it, everyone is doing it.

the manager was calling him brave and a stand up guy for confessing publicly. He had no choice. The guy who got busted and is singing has the records of payment from Waino’s verified personal account. MLB has the evidence.

Waino has always had one of the best curve balls. If he’s doing it to keep up with the rest of the pitchers, you know it was widespread on all clubs.

Yadier had a baseball stick to his chest protector. Pretty sure everyone knew what was going on.

of course, because everyone was doing it. No one got mad or snitched on one another. If you wanted to cheat, go for it. Same as the steroid era.

Houston cheating was different. That went against the code.

A lot of pitchers probably use something but I don't know how many use something that would cause a baseball to physically stick to a flat chest protector and defy gravity. That was ridiculous and MLB just laughed it off like everyone else and said no foul play here ladies and gentlemen.

Every single team that has a basic I.T. staff can get your signals from the dugout and coaches on the field now using AI in real time.

It's such a basic algorithm. Same indicator based signal since we all used in little league. Get 10 years of signals. Throw them into an AI Data lake. You will get their indicator at a 95% clip. Just mid level tech expertise is needed. The A.I. does all the work. You can get a good enough A.I. for free with a standard E5 license in Azure that most business's already have in place.

I saw this in a game a couple of weeks ago. Molina and the pitcher thought the Dodgers had their indicator. They changed the signs and indicator 6 times in an inning. Stopping the game to get a new set of indicators at a crucial moment.

Will this free fall finally be enough to get rid of Mozeliak?

Nope, but it may be enough for Arenado to opt out. You are 77+ games in and your players still don't feel they are getting a game plan to use against the next games pitcher? Theres something going on in that locker room thats not public.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Moving on up!<br><br>INF Nolan Gorman has been promoted to <a href="https://twitter.com/memphisredbirds?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@memphisredbirds</a> (AAA).<br><br>INF Malcolm Nunez has been promoted to <a href="https://twitter.com/Sgf_Cardinals?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Sgf_Cardinals</a> (AA).<br><br>INF Jordan Walker has been promoted to <a href="https://twitter.com/peoriachiefs?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@peoriachiefs</a> (High-A).</p>&mdash; St. Louis Cardinals (@Cardinals) <a href="https://twitter.com/Cardinals/status/1409614281885327364?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 28, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Interesting, where did you see this?

Edman said no game plan against the next days pitcher and lack of in game adjustments in a public press conference. Dejong went to ludwick the next day for a very public hitting lesson.

I will never forgive the Cardinals should Arenado opt out. Letting Pujols go was tough but understood the why and glad we didn't overpay. This is very different.

I don’t know how Mo would survive that.

I've been a Cards fan for nearly 40 years now, and forgive me if I'm wrong, but has this organization ever been so poorly managed? The last few years I think have been the most frustrating of my life.

Most of us can't figure out how Mo has made it this far to begin with.

I hate the Cardinals more than any other team as a Pirates fan.

Used to be the Braves and the Reds but no more.

Thanks for sharing!

Ken Rosenthal on MLB central this am said that there was a huge gap between the Cardinal players and the hitting coaches. They have quit listening to the hitting coaches.

Doesn’t see it getting better and should be sellers at the trade line.

Seems like there is another potential solution here.

And who exactly would they be selling?

^this^
sec

Yep, maybe Martinez, DeJong, some of our relivers but what can you get for them even in a sellers market? Probably not worth it, your selling low on all of them, hang on to them and hope they turn it around.



They had better not be talking about Liberatore/Gorman level guys. With those guys, next year we can field a respectable team.

So who are we fixing to draft?

I’m hearing rumors of a trade? WTF? With 62 games left San Diego is 14 games over .500 for the last playoff spot.

If SD just plays .500 ball the rest of the way the Cardinals need to go 43-19 the rest of the way. In what reality is that possible?

They should only consider trades that build for the future. I’m surprised that Waino’s name hasn’t come up. Talk about the perfect rental for some team.

If Mo entertains trading any of our already thin list of near major prospects he should be fired on the spot. Trading Gorman, Liberatore, Walker, etc. would be worse than the boneheaded decision to extend Carpenter.

Let everyone get healthy, play out this season (decide what you want to do up the middle at SS and 2B) let the dead weight contracts go finally…Carpenter, Martinez, Miller and use the money to fill holes and add depth.

We ARE not one or two players away.

The obvious play would be to try to catch Milwaukee who they are 8 games behind and play 10 more times. Milwaukee is playing .500 ball as of late.

Realistically you have to pick up a game a week on them and or dominate the match ups with them. Well for this team that's unrealistic as well.

And any trade is likely to **** the Cardinals, Mo got his Arenado deal, he wont hit another one out of the park.

We get rid of that dead salary weight. Gorman and Liberatore arrive. We buy us a legit middle of the order bat. We can have a legit contending team next year. But, it ain't happening this year.

No-rotation has multiple holes. Offense is screwed unless DeJong isn’t shit. Bullpen is a mess regardless.

This team isn’t contending unless DeWitt wants to invest more.

The middle of the order bat needs to be a SS/2B. But, can be a corner OF too. Those don't grow on trees and are very expensive. Miller/Martinez/Fowler/Carpenter's wasted money is a ton of cash that can be used to buy that legit bat this off season.

We have the bones of a legit starting pitching staff

Flaherty
Liberatore
Reyes

Cardinals going to require masks for everyone who enters Bush stadium for a game.

Fake news

Came across my feed. Local TV station. No reputation as a fake news purveyor.
https://fox2now.com/sports/st-louis-...k-village/amp/

ST. LOUIS – The St. Louis Cardinals will now require fans to wear masks at Busch Stadium and while visiting indoor spaces at Ballpark Village.

The move comes after St. Louis City and County issued a mask mandate earlier this week.

Looks like the Cards traded for a very shitty old starter in JA Happ. He has an ERA just under 7 with around a -2 WAR on the year.

Gave up Gant and a minor league reliever in Evan Sisk.

Nice work Mo.

Print em

Not trying to get political by lol **** that @ wearing a mask during the dog days of summer in STL at a ballgame

And they traded for Jon Lester.

I’m done following this team unless the DeWitts actually spend money or try to build for the future.

I ****ing hate Jon Lester

I like it. I didn’t want them to do a damn thing. This is as close as we can get. We have a shot at a legit team next year. This years team is going nowhere. Not trading our top talent for some rental would have been a disaster.

Could be worse. The Cubs are basically the turkey carcass after Thanksgiving dinner.

How do you like trading for Happ and Lester?

They've been worse than Gant.

There's literally nothing of positive value, short or long term, that they got in return, aside from warm bodies.

Doing nothing is better than what they just did.

They at least have hope for the future.

The Cardinals don't have anything. Period.

The Cardinals minor league system is better stocked than the Cubs. Cubs are utterly, totally, ****ed for the next half decade+.

my thinking was on a curve. Liberatore/Gorman for Turner would have been a normal Mo trade. So trading shit for shit is at least better than that scenerio. No one has defended Mo in this thread for over a decade. We expect incompetence and inept FA picks.

No idea why you think Liberatore, Gorman, Herrera and Thompson are trash. We also get $40 million gain in salary from the Carp and Fowler contracts. Surely Dewitt will spend that money on a bat.

That depends entirely on what they do in the offseason. They could very easily just go back and re-sign every single player they just traded besides Kimbrel. But the fact that they traded Kimbrel for MLB pieces makes me believe they have plans on spending in this next 2 FA periods which are pretty stacked and they have a handful of guys that are quickly rising up prospect boards.

https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/...er=&pos=&team=

Cubs system ranked 9th in farm value before these trades. Cardinals sit at 20.

Part of the reason why the Cardinals are in the situation they're in currently is because they have no one ready in Memphis pitching wise aside from maybe Liberatore-who should be worth the wait and development. Offensively, there's Gorman in Memphis, who switched positions and is taking time getting adjusted to higher quality pitching. Herrerra in Springfield also seems promising. After that it's very underwhelming.

Offense isn't really an issue in my mind. DeJong needs to stop playing like shit. Carpenter will be gone. Arenado/Goldschmidt/O'Neil/Carlson/Edman for the most part have been doing what's asked of them. Bader's actually hitting. Getting another bat won't hurt, but that's not the issue.

The rotation's been decimated by injury with no replacements what so ever. And they didn't go out in the offseason to invest in any solution.

Additionally, they declined Wong's option. They also are basically getting Arenado for free this season.

Guess theses are old guys to just throw out there to eat innings. Pretty amusing exchange of bad players with Lester for Lane Thomas.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Proof that Jon Lester is a Cub at heart.<br><br>6 ER thru 2 IP. <a href="https://t.co/V3Ubyb0YSv">pic.twitter.com/V3Ubyb0YSv</a></p>&mdash; The 3-0 Take (MLB Podcast) (@the30takepod) <a href="https://twitter.com/the30takepod/status/1422724534277484552?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 4, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Been a rough year for the Cardinals starting pitching
Being 10.5 games out with 50 to play puts the Cards in a rough spot. Desperation time is fast approaching.

He's just old and tired. His last 3 or so years on the Cubs you could tell he was playing on borrowed time. His hard hit rate was skyrocketing. Probably the only reason he's still going is to try and get to 200 wins and I dont even know if he gets there and he's at 196 right now.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Cardinals have agreed to a one-year, $10 million contract extension with Yadier Molina, sources tell The Athletic.</p>&mdash; Katie Woo (@katiejwoo) <a href="https://twitter.com/katiejwoo/status/1430269763691892742?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 24, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>