The Browns need so much it makes no sense to go QB for them this year...

Yup...in the words of the great Scott Pioli, "drafting a QB every year is good for business." Imagine how good business would be if we drafted a QB in the first round every....year....!!!!

Obviously, in a perfect world we draft the QB in the first round. But, if they do for some reason all go way higher than they should.... I could definitely get behind drafting a ILB/CB/RB in the late first round and taking a guy like Kaaya in RD2 or RD3.

I agree that teams in the top 10 shouldn't be taking these QB's and throwing them to the wolves, but the fact remains that SF, NYJ, and CLE all have Jack and Shit at the QB position heading into 2017. There is a legitimate chance the Browns not only take a QB at 12, but move up from 12, maybe as high as 4th overall (I don't see Tennessee giving up #5 if one of Adams or Lattimore is on the board for them) to get Trubisky before the Jets. That is, if San Francisco doesn't strike first at #2.

If that happens, the chances of KC securing a QB in 2017 worth a shit becomes far less likely.

Some guru/GM I heard on Cowherd today (didn't get the name) said last year they had 11 QBs worthy of drafting. This year only 6.

And if they all take a QB, all three will be far less likely to take a QB next year.

Hell, maybe you can get one of those teams to trade you their 2018 1st after they blow their 2017 first round pick on a QB and desperately try to trade back into the 2017 1st round to pick another player.

After all, they don't need their 1st for a QB next year, so why not take advantage of the deep 2017 class at other positions?

Dorsey needs to think outside the box here.

The Jets just spent a 2nd rounder on a QB last year. They're dumb enough to draft a QB at 6 this year and then do it again next year. Especially with a new staff.

Other than Cleveland with their 2nd pick and Houston, I don't think anyone else takes a QB before KC. Even with Cleveland I think the chance is less than 50%.

Add Arizona to that list.

If that's what happens, I certainly wouldn't be against the idea.

People really underestimate how bad our OL's were during his time here. The talent level on offense overall was pretty ****ing average too.

Maybe if they trade back in the first. I don't see them using a top 15 pick (with only one first round pick) on any QB in this class.

These QB prospects really aren't that good compared to the talent that will be available when these teams pick.

Some years you get these bizarre early QB runs on meh players- 2011, I just don't think it will happen this year.

That's exactly where I started, you ****ing lackwit.

In a draft where there are a dozen capable RBs, why the hell would you be excited about the idea of taking this guy in the 3rd? Especially when there are going to be starting caliber edge rushers, CBs and Safeties that you could take and STILL get Williams in the 5th or later?

How is Kaaya regarded in Miami in comparison to guys like...Bernie Kosar? Pretty well liked in Miami?

My college roommate/one of my best friends is from Miami. Loves the Heat. Loves the Canes.

The back end of this draft for QBs is truly horrific.

Starting where, though?

Trubisky
Mahomes
Kizer
Watson
Webb
Peterman

All imminently draftable, yes? Then I'd say Kaaya and Dobbs are draftable, but on opposite grounds. I have a hard time saying there are only 6 draftable quarterbacks.

8, OTOH, I can get behind. **** Chad Kelly in his face. I would probably be willing to throw a 6th or even a 7th at Evans but you have to know that he's probably camp fodder; just too far away and no quality team can justify carrying him. If someone wanted to argue that he's nothing but a priority UDFA (Bray), I'd totally buy that.

Well....and of course Cooper Rush, but I don't think he'll make it to our pick at 27. Guy has Tom Brady written all over him.

It depends. To casual fans, he sucks because he never beat FSU. What they fail to realize is he's the only reason we were in those last 3 games to begin with. I think they'll see that when we go to Tally this year with a young inexperienced QB. He made a beautiful throw in the clutch to give us a chance to tie at the end of the game this year, and we proceeded to miss the extra point. That really hurt his legacy IMO.

To reasonable fans like myself, we see a guy that could be another in a long list of Shannon/Golden coached Canes that turns out to be a better pro than college player. He's the best QB we've had in my lifetime (sorry Ken Dorsey I still love you).

If Ken Dorsey didn't exist, I'd have to invent him.

He's the single greatest argument for tools over intangibles you'll ever see. You can't find a single person EVER who will say a bad thing about that guy. Teammates love playing for him, he loved the game, was smart and worked his ass off.

But man, when you can't throw a baseball through a pane of glass, you just ain't gonna make it. And to have your career end on the biggest !@#$ing hose job in NCAA football history...ugh. **** you, Ohio State.

God damn. This post just reminded me of how much I love Charles. I'm sad now. Thanks.
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It's so sad that he didn't at least go out with another NC. Between the McGahee injury, the terrible PI call, and Dorsey getting banged up and having to come out in OT then going back in hurt (people forget about that), it was like watching a football horror movie. That's the last taste of championship ball I have with any of my sports teams too. I'm pretty sure I got fan PTSD from it.

If only he could block...

Christ, that's the level we're dealing with here. Some asshole that thinks Jamaal Charles was a lousy blocker.

Idiot.

I will forever contend that those teams were the two most talented football teams in college football history and that every year, when some idiot says "Alabama could beat the 49ers", they're wrong.

But THOSE Miami teams? Those squads could've hung with the NFL bottom dwellers. Maybe not beat them...but maybe they could. Going through the 2-deep on those squads is just ridiculous.

It's really hard to believe that at one time we had McGahee and Gore backing up Portis (Najeh Davenport at FB), Winslow behind Shockey, and Sean Taylor ( :( ) behind Ed Reed. Not to mention guys like Vilma, Andre Johnson, DJ Williams, Jerome McDougle, Bryant McKiney, Mike Rumph, Phillip Buchanan, etc.

Absolutely unreal.

Mahommes had a great day working out for Arizona per Matt Miller. There's no way in hell he's falling past them.

I hope he flies under the radar but I wouldn't be mad if we went safe and picked him up with our 4th overall pick. Great complementary back to go with Ware.

People say that every draft about all sorts of players, we really don't know.

No way that Dorsey falls to us, no way that DJ falls to us, no way that Bridgewater falls to us

on and on and on


Although, QB's do tend to go higher than expected while other positions like RBs,ILBs tend to go lower. Positional value influences stuff when it comes does to crunch time.

Good lord, that is incredible.

There's never even been an NFL team with a RB, TE, or S group with that much talent. We'll never see anything like it again in CFB.

It's not a surprise...dude will shit on any Chief that isn't ASS11 at a moment's notice.

Jarrett Payton - the ultimate legacy kid and a damn good back in his own right - was 6th on the depth chart.

Think about that - a kid that played in the NFL couldn't even make Miami's taxi squad.

I think there should be more talk about Chad Kelly.

One of the most talented QB's in this draft class imo. Yes, yes, off the field red flags and two torn ACL's, but the guy could turn out to be a steal.

This year's Tyler Bray?

Yup, Payton was a pretty ****ing good college RB when he finally got to play.

Just had a wrist tendon injury, didn't he?

And he's this year's Bray if Bray were a bigger asshole. Chad Kelly is essentially the bastard spawn of Tyler Bray and Johnny Manziel. Take the worst traits of each player and you end up with Chad Kelly.

The character concerns aren't THAT bad.

He ran onto a football field when a brawl was occurring, in defense of his little brother. He never actually engaged in the brawl.

He was kicked off Clemson for reportedly arguing with coaches, and he allegedly got into it with a bouncer at a club.

But at least he never punched a pregnant woman or sucker punched a chick.

As far as the wrist goes, i had read that he was going to throw again on the 22nd. I just now read, however, that he had surgery and won't be throwing afterall.

In that same article i found this nugget:

"Kelly had already visited with the Kansas City Chiefs, and he has upcoming visits scheduled with Seattle and Buffalo. Oubre said Cincinnati and Miami also have shown interest."

Apparently the Chiefs already brought him in. I really like this kid's talent.

if you are comparing him to tyler bray, we have already seen how that panned out. :D

So IR every year and does nothing?

But look at that arm strength!

He said that the two teams to watch with Mahomes were Arizona and KC, but....

He said for Kansas City, he would need to fall a bit lower obviously to get into striking distance. There's no telling how far they are willing to trade up, but I would hope if he gets past Arizona that they will make the move.

Buffalo at 10.
They have the least picks in the draft. Andy groomed McDermott. If Mahomes really is the guy, then you offer Buffalo multiple picks to get ahead of both Cleveland and Arizona. Steep cost.

If somehow Arizona passes on Mahomes, you then call Ballard in Indy. They have 7 picks. I can imagine a new GM would want more picks to put a stamp on his roster in a deep draft. You also say, "Do you want your division rival Houston to get their future guy? We can help prolong their qb problem...."

We will soon find out if Mahomes has drawn the fancy of the brass, or if they play the percentages and let the players fall to them in a deep draft.

I too long for a shiny new qb, but at what price and risk? The franchise could get so much better around the qb position through this draft alone: aging pass rusher, injured ilb, poor run defense, more depth needed at rb, and a Maclin replacement could all be found within our first four picks. Do you throw that away on "potential" at the qb spot?

I can't imagine the stress Dorsey and company are going through leading up to this draft - so hard to read how this qb class is going to shake out.

The Colts trade idea is really solid. If Ballard can stock up on talented players, they are a SB contender with Luck. More picks = more opportunities to hit on game changers.

This was my idea previously.

I think Ballard would cut us a solid deal if we gave a good deal.

Colts 14th overall pick is worth 1,100 points

Ideal trade

27th overall pick (680 points)
3rd rd pick (136 points)
2018 2nd rd pick (at least 300 points)

That alone is over 1,100 points and gives Ballard a lot of options in a deep draft.

We all know Dorsey wants his picks, so he could trade down in rd 2 like like year (59 to 74 for a 4th rd pick) and gain another mid round valuable pick.

Also..Houston traded their 2nd rd pick. They've got no ammo to trade up for a QB

Which also makes it difficult to take one of these QB's that has to sit a year.

Here is a big hypothetical that will not happen but fun to ponder. Let's say Dorsey trades up and for some reason Mahomes and Foster are right there for the taking. Who would you take ?

Tough one.
Foster will be an all-pro for 10 years.
Mahomes might be out of the league in 3-5 years, or a franchise-signal caller. The smart money says Foster, but the ILB position is less impactful and more readily replaced talent-wise. Can't say the same about the qb position. If Dorsey/Reid are completely sold on Mahomes then you trade up for him. Any hesitation and you stand pat or go get Foster.

Pretty much two of my favourite players in this draft, so tough decision and neat scenario on your part.

Good analysis. Another player I hope we take IF we can't get the QB of our choice is Reddick. I like his explosion and motor. He may even go before 27 and probably will and I would hate to see any of our divisional rivals get him that's for sure.

I respectfully disagree on Reddick :drool:.

Too much bad tape for me. I get leery with guys who transition to multiple positions/schemes from college to pro. He's too light to play edge and not experienced enough to be inside. I saw too many instances of him making no impact snap to snap. Impressive flash plays, but few and far between.

Tim Williams and Tarell Basham are guys I like as pass rush fits for us. Bowser is interesting too.

The answer is pretty obvious to me.

I don't think Dorsey would trade up if it wasn't for a QB.

He just stays put and sees what falls if you're talking about an ILB.


I still not sure that Reid prefers Mahomes though.


If we are trading up for a QB then we jump up for Watson. imo

They won't take Trubiscuit #1.

We are going to end up with Peterman

Meh on Foster. It's not Dorsey's style to drop a 1st round bomb to fix a starter's hole in the roster.

He's going to take advantage of the deep class of ILBs and grab a guy with starting potential in the 3rd/4th rounds like he always does, only this time the expectation is the guy he picks is going to be WAAAAY more apt for being a great player than Ramik Wilson or Nico Johnson of the past years, both of them whom had significant flaws in their games to fix before they could even sniff the productivity of someone like DJ.

If we're trading up....it's more than likely going to be for a QB. I don't see him trading up for an ILB.

If this team passes on a QB the pick better be a CB. There are top shelf CB's available in the late first rd that are top 15 picks any other year.

**** that noise. With Mitchell, I'd rather wait and get one in the 3rd-4th where there will still be potential starters at the position. Front 7 or QB at 27.

There's not a DL that I would draft rd 1. Not even Wormley. And **** Jarrad Davis/Zach cunningham.

Pass rusher? Hell yes from me..probably not from Dorsey.

CB is deep but the guys in rd 1 look special. I'm talking true #1 caliber corners. Just imagine one paired with Peters. Holy shit

Malik McDowell got invited to the draft which usually means they have a really good shot at going in the 1st, so I think he's a darkhorse. Miller said scouts are saying Wormley will go higher than expected too.

Davis is so underrated on CP. His 2015 tape when he was healthy is really ****ing good.

Foster is not a "meh" player. He will change any defense he goes to. A physical intimidator who easily has the best instincts in this class: Kuechly-like.

We have been spoiled with over a decade of DJ, who has arguably been one of our most dependable players with elite talent.

This ILB class is not deep. Outside of Foster, maybe Cunningham and Davis are every-down players. The Duke Riley's, Raekwon McMillan's, Alex Anzalone's of the world all have question marks and red flags.

You cite that we can nab a starter in round 3/4. Guess where Ramik Wilson was drafted? You wan't another Ramik Wilson caliber player starting?

A smart trade-up for Foster if he falls a bit would be a coup.
Hali and DJ will be following Charles out the door shortly. Tough guys to replace when you consider their overall contributions to the franchise.

I'd rather flip a 5th for Kendricks.

McDowell is lazy. Pass. Football is not important to him.

Wow, you can't ****ing read. I didn't say Foster was meh. I said "meh" to Foster. The idea of trading up to go get him.

And I even MENTIONED the Ramik ****ing Wilson in my last goddamn post. Christ, you suck.

There are a ton of 3-down LBs in this draft. We don't need to blow the **** up to get one, especially not trading up that far in the draft for one. I don't care if he shoots cinnamon buns out his goddamn urethra for all the Arrowhead fans.

And so we continue to go 1 and done in the playoffs.

I'm not going to shit all over every thread with "it doesn't matter with Alex under center" but I will say that ANY trade up that doesn't replace Alex Smith is absolutely asinine. It costs us assets that could be used to replace Smith next year while in the process doing nothing to raise the ceiling of this team past the playoff fodder it presently is.

Alex Smith will never be anything more than the bit player in a better quarterback's story. He's the guy that champions beat to become champions - he's not a guy that ever does the winning.

Trading up to draft Foster would be as stupid at taking Tyson Jackson at 3. Okay, nothing's that stupid. But it would be stupid. This team doesn't win a championship with Reuben Foster in the middle and Alex Smith or Nate Peterman under center.

Some day it might win a championship with Jarrad Davis in the middle and Pat Mahomes under center.

I'd rather sign Hodges.... :D

Eh, theres maybe 3 of those in this draft.

The class isn't as deep as you think it is. Beyond the first 2/3, the guys with the speed lack the size. The guys with the size lack the speed and/or instincts. The rare person that comes close on both has injury questions.

It's a pretty bad ILB class, IMO.

I highly doubt Dorsey will reach for an ILB, nor should he with the incredible talent available.

Just think of what one of these CB's will allow us to do. We can stack the box more to defend the run and we can blitz more with reliable coverage.

It's a win-win and would affect the game in a huge way.

I'm down for taking an ILB, but I'm not so sure Dorsey will with Houston/Ford solidifying the starting spots.

"Chris Jones is lazy"

And Mahomes nor any qb drafted this year will play in 2017 or at least should not. A modest trade-up I could see, but not a 12-15 position jump which may be what it takes to get their guy (Mahomes/Watson being the buzz). This Chiefs team has more holes than many are willing to admit. The defense has question marks at pass-rusher with Hali virtually out the door, Ford an enigma, and Houston a band-aid. DJ likely never returns to form and the ILB core behind him are young and limited. #2 corner is up for grabs. Maclin needs to be more productive and is slowing down with each passing season. Ware wore down as the season went along. The O-line and TE positions need depth added.

I want Alex replaced as bad as the next guy. If it costs us a first, second and third round pick to get in range to get one of these qbs though? - **** that. Too many needs. Our division rivals are on the upswing. Mortgaging 3 potential starters at other positions for a "maybe" qb prospect is stupid business. Moving up to the 20-22 spot is doable if your guy is on the board. Anything from 10-15 will cost a fortune. If Mahomes is the guy, the Chiefs have to pray he is still on the board by pick 20 or so.

Then you don't really want Smith replaced, especially not if you're willing to give up that same 1st, 2nd and 3rd on Foster.

When Alex Smith is replaced it will either be with some identical, supremely limited quarterback like Peterman or it will come at a MASSIVE cost. And no, the 2018 quarterback crop isn't any more likely to be outstanding than this one is - better at the top (where we can't get) and just as 'eh' through the middle. Meanwhile, we'll no longer have the luxury of grooming a guy for a year - after this season with Smith under center, it will be obvious that he must be replaced immediately, I'm certain of that.

I'm writing off '17 - we're not winning anything with Smith. So trying to continue to prop him up is an exercise in futility. Give him Foster and we'll still lose to first top 10 QB he faces in the post-season.

The time to strike at QB is now and if it costs you a 1st, 3rd and 2018 2nd, so be it. That's going to be the cost anyway be it this season or next. That, or you just watch some other scrub go out there and dink and dunk his way to very little of consequence.

Settle down. I know you don't perceive Foster as a "meh" player. My point is that any front office personnel worth their salt likely perceives Foster as a top-five talent in this draft. If he falls for some reason into the mid teens, you have to really consider moving to get him considering his talent and that he fills a huge position of need. My comments regarding Wilson and the comparisons to the other linebackers in this class is that in my estimation this class is not strong nor special. If the Chiefs are going to address the inside linebacker position seriously in this draft it will happen within the first two rounds or they will sign a free agent or trade for a guy.

When did I suggest to give up that haul for Foster? If the potential second coming of Ray Lewis is available in the mid to late teens you go get that given the positional need and elite talent of the player.

I am prognosticating that in order to get a Patrick Mahomes, and to ensure that you get him, the Chiefs need to move up between the 10 to 15 pick range which will cost a lot. I rather spend draft capital on a sure thing instead of a project. If said project slides into a range where we're giving up number 27 and maybe one other pick then yeah I'm on board.

Your hypothetical was in response to a trade up to get to to 14; that's what that trade would cost.

So that's exactly what you suggested we do.

And I reiterate, if all you're willing to give up to acquire Smith's replacement is something like an extra 3rd rounder (i.e. roughly the cost it takes to get to 22), then no, you can't say "I want Smith gone as much as the next guy" because you clearly don't. That's a "eh, if it's cheap, why not?"

So you're in the middle; someone that thinks Smith can win a championship if surrounded by enough talent but who we could start looking for a replacement for if it came at a nominal cost.

The situation is far more dire than that, IMO.

I'm perfectly fine with giving up #27, our 3rd round comp pick and a 2nd next year for the QB that they want.

I remember reading the odd scout report saying that. The bigger red flag with McDowell is that not only do you hear it in public circles, but you literally see it point blank in his tape. It was much harder to detect with Jones in college.

I've talked myself into it.

If it were the 1st and a comp 3rd, it's a no-brainer. Throwing in the 2nd next year stings a bit but it puts us so far ahead of where we'd be if we waited until next season (or took the next best option) that it's worth the capital.

Meanwhile, we still hold onto our 2nd this year to find the ILB we need and our original 3rd to get depth on the DL or edge. I don't see a lot of pass-catching talent out wide in the middle rounds but there are some intriguing TE options that we could target in the 3rd or 4th as well if we went that route.

We don't feel the real sting in that trade until 2018 but if it gets us to our QB a year earlier, you do it and you don't think twice. If Ballard offered that deal to move up to 14, I'd probably take it.

I'd regret it because ultimately I think the Cardinals stuff is a smokescreen and it's unlikely that anyone actually takes Mahomes before 22, but **** me I'd hate to be wrong. I really like that guy.

I'd rather bite the bullet and trade up instead of just sitting on our ****ing hands like we always do. I'm sure we'll just sit there at 27 and watch one of them fall into the 20s.....and then they'll announce a trade has happened. And it will end up being some other team jumping us to pick him.

You can't trade comp picks.

Trading up for ANY of these quarterbacks is a terrible idea.

It's literally like trading up for Geno Smith. THE ****?

Yes, you can. Try to be smarter next time.

Clay is saying a lot of stupid shit lately. Even more than usual.

LMAO

Try being right before being indignant next time, m'kay?

Geno hurt Clay and Clay isn't over it yet. That's all this is.