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-   -   Chiefs Phillip Gaines (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=286134)

RealSNR 10-19-2014 05:21 PM
No surprise that people had their periods prematurely about him.

He's far from doing what we need him to do yet, but it's not easy being a rookie corner. He's not exactly what I would call a piece of shit.

GoShox 10-19-2014 05:22 PM
He stepped up today. That's exactly what you want your rookies to do.

Wallcrawler 10-19-2014 05:25 PM
Huge play on the swat in the endzone on 3rd and goal.

smith11 10-19-2014 05:26 PM
so impressed with gaines today--though it looked like he could have tried to pick that pass that he knocked down in the end zone

kcxiv 10-19-2014 05:28 PM
he played really well. He was all over the WR's all day.

KCChiefsfan1234 10-19-2014 05:30 PM
I told you guys that you needed to give him a break! I know for a fact that he is and will be a great player some day!! So happy for him. He just needs some time.

jonzie04 10-19-2014 05:30 PM
Great game Gaines. He's made massive strides since the preseason. Guy is super athletic.

smith11 10-19-2014 05:34 PM
was cooper benched? fleming looked erratic but did some nice things--the pi call was bull

GoShox 10-19-2014 05:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smith11 (Post 11031128)
was cooper benched? fleming looked erratic but did some nice things--the pi call was bull
Yes, he was benched for bad play. He switched to being a gunner on punts.

BigCatDaddy 10-19-2014 05:38 PM
I'm not sure if it's just this fan base or every fan base are complete dumbasses when it comes to expectations for rookie and 2nd year players. Shit takes time.

mdchiefsfan 10-19-2014 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCChiefsfan1234 (Post 11031098)
I told you guys that you needed to give him a break! I know for a fact that he is and will be a great player some day!! So happy for him. He just needs some time.
Well you vouched and guaranteed.... It's official.

OldSchool 10-19-2014 05:40 PM
Gaines looked way better today than he did in the pre-season, really glad that he got better.

OldSchool 10-19-2014 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy (Post 11031155)
I'm not sure if it's just this fan base or every fan base are complete dumbasses when it comes to expectations for rookie and 2nd year players. Shit takes time.
If someone is going to start or play significant snaps, I expect them to play well and better than the guy on the bench. Disagree?

Tribal Warfare 10-19-2014 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy (Post 11031155)
I'm not sure if it's just this fan base or every fan base are complete dumbasses when it comes to expectations for rookie and 2nd year players. Shit takes time.
Average NFL career is 3.3 years

The 3rd year is the sweet spot if said player actually develops into something.

BigCatDaddy 10-19-2014 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool (Post 11031164)
If someone is going to start or play significant snaps, I expect them to play well and better than the guy on the bench. Disagree?
It depends on where the franchise is in development. If the franchise isn't going anywhere in the post season than I'm going with youth and upside over experienced mediocre vets that might be a hair better.

BigCatDaddy 10-19-2014 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare (Post 11031169)
Average NFL career is 3.3 years

The 3rd year is the sweet spot if said player actually develops into something.
Makes sense and you want to see improvement from year 1 to 2 to 3 regardless, but writing off rookies because they aren't heading the probowl as a rookie is stupid especially one like Gaines coming from a smaller program.

RealSNR 10-19-2014 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCChiefsfan1234 (Post 11031098)
I told you guys that you needed to give him a break! I know for a fact that he is and will be a great player some day!! So happy for him. He just needs some time.
If a worthless waste of oxygen makes a post, and nobody reads it, did it really happen?

ILChief 10-19-2014 06:20 PM
Baller

RINGLEADER 10-19-2014 06:24 PM
Gaines had a couple of great defenses today and seemed tone mostly solid otherwise.

OldSchool 10-19-2014 06:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RINGLEADER (Post 11031347)
Gaines had a couple of great defenses today and seemed tone mostly solid otherwise.
Yeah, he played way better than I expected him to. He was the only one who had the speed to stick to Royal. Glad he improved.

aturnis 10-19-2014 06:43 PM
Dude was in his receivers hop pocket all day. Really good right coverage. Very pleased with him today.

kcxiv 10-19-2014 06:45 PM
at least we arent getting beat deep like we used too. I mean they had that one over the middle for a touchdown, but that had to do with luck as well as our guy even swatted the ****ing ball. We used to always always give up that big ass 60-70 yard touch down play. Seems as if thats gone.

Wallcrawler 10-19-2014 06:49 PM
The Gates touchdown was just sickening. Two guys on him, the defender swats the football, and it still just floats into Gates' chest. Hard to ask the defenders to play it better, it just went Gates' way on that one.

KCChiefsfan1234 10-19-2014 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR (Post 11031197)
If a worthless waste of oxygen makes a post, and nobody reads it, did it really happen?
Oh well you can have your opinion. I'm sorry you are such an angry person that you can't respect another person's opinion.

MahiMike 10-19-2014 06:59 PM
I was wondering why the diss on this guy early on. He was a big reason why we won today.

BigCatDaddy 10-19-2014 07:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCChiefsfan1234 (Post 11031493)
Oh well you can have your opinion. I'm sorry you are such an angry person that you can't respect another person's opinion.
You know or are related to him arent you?

chiefzilla1501 10-19-2014 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool (Post 11031164)
If someone is going to start or play significant snaps, I expect them to play well and better than the guy on the bench. Disagree?
Blake Bortles should start over Chad Henne. Period.

The massive improvements by Gaines, Kelce, Kniles Davis, and Eric Fisher show how ridiculously overreactionary CP has become in terms of patience with young players.

The program you're promoting is one where average veterans will almost always beat rookies for a starting spot, and that's just wrong.

Can we please finally get rid of this dumb position that preseasons are a good way to judge rookie talent? Good. Glad we can move on from that.

KCChiefsfan1234 10-19-2014 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy (Post 11031520)
You know or are related to him arent you?
:)

Exoter175 10-19-2014 07:57 PM
Gaines played VERY well tonight. I can't say I'm more impressed than I should be, after watching his growth on special teams this year and seeing a few of his defensive snaps so far, but he's doing a VERY good job at continuing to roll his improvements over from one game to the next.

Mizzou_8541 10-19-2014 08:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCChiefsfan1234 (Post 11031098)
I told you guys that you needed to give him a break! I know for a fact that he is and will be a great player some day!! So happy for him. He just needs some time.
Go on...

xztop123 10-19-2014 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoShox (Post 11031132)
Yes, he was benched for bad play. He switched to being a gunner on punts.
I like that we have all no names and coaches arent afraid to let the BPA play

xztop123 10-19-2014 08:43 PM
I also like the fact that it didnt seem like Fasano was getting a ton of snaps today

Fritz88 10-19-2014 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruit Ninja (Post 11031430)
at least we arent getting beat deep like we used too. I mean they had that one over the middle for a touchdown, but that had to do with luck as well as our guy even swatted the ****ing ball. We used to always always give up that big ass 60-70 yard touch down play. Seems as if thats gone.
I sure hope so.
Posted via Mobile Device

Pasta Little Brioni 10-19-2014 10:03 PM
Made a big play today and we'll overall against a very good passing team. CP once again shows how horrible we are at evaluating young talent.

BigCatDaddy 10-19-2014 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball (Post 11032238)
Made a big play today and we'll overall against a very good passing team. CP once again shows how horrible we are at evaluating young talent.
Maybe, but there was some dude in the draft forum that said he would be the best CB in the class before we drafted him. I'm too lazy to go see who.

OldSchool 10-19-2014 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pasta Giant Meatball (Post 11032238)
Made a big play today and we'll overall against a very good passing team. CP once again shows how horrible we are at evaluating young talent.
I and Direckshun were onto him during the draft period. I thought that he would be a 4th-5th rounder though because he was still raw and coming from a weak conference. Dorsey took him in the 3rd.

It was his play during the pre-season that made me think that he wasn't ready for the NFL and needed a ton of more work. He was getting abused by scrubs out there. Still believed that he had the physical talent to be great, just wondered how long and if he would ever get there after how poorly he played in the final pre-season games.

BigCatDaddy 10-19-2014 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCatDaddy (Post 11032287)
Maybe, but there was some dude in the draft forum that said he would be the best CB in the class before we drafted him. I'm too lazy to go see who.
Ok. I didn't want OldDumbShit taking any credit so I looked it up. He could be dead wrong still, but PlanetDoc was all over the kid.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...01&postcount=2

OldSchool 10-19-2014 11:02 PM
Here is what I thought of him before the draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool (Post 10452700)
CB

Phillip Gaines, CB, Rice, Senior

Measurables: 6' .3", 193 lbs, 31 7/8" arms, 9 5/8" hands.

Bench Reps: 11

40 time: 4.35 unofficial, 4.38 official

3-cone: 6.62

Short Shuttle: 4.04

Background: Played CB at Rice. He was a dominant CB in his senior year. He was targeted 40 times in 2013 and allowed 13 receptions while making 4 INTs with 9 PBUs, 32.5% success rate. He has 38 PBUs in his career at Rice which is their career record. Gaines had legal troubles in 2011 when he was arrested for possession of 2 ounces or less of weed.

Positives: Aggressive defender in coverage, he plays fearlessly and isn't afraid to challenge receivers at the line. He's experienced as a press-corner and looks comfortable in the zone as well. He has great ball skills and broke up a ton of passes when playing at Rice. He has tremendous speed and quickness to mirror even the fastest WRs to go along with his good length, great closing speed. He was left on an island for most of his career and performed at a high level in that role; shows good awareness in coverage to fall off his man and make a play on the ball when it is thrown elsewhere. Very fluid athlete who is a willing tackler.

Negatives: Needs to improve his technique to in order to be more effective as a press corner (though he is fine in his trail technique). Struggles to get off of blocks in the run game; needs to add more strength to deal with WRs blocking him or improve his physicality at the point of attack. Needs to do a better job of catching the ball when he gets an opportunity.

Overview: Gaines is a confident, aggressive, and physical corner who has the potential to become a top cover corner in the NFL in either zone or press-man schemes. He has all of the tools to succeed but could stand to improve his strength, teams also have to check out his character. I would take him as soon as the 4th round in this draft in order to improve our pass coverage.

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/aY5uFG16O4E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool (Post 10453409)
Looking at draft sites, they all say 7th round. His play is way above that of a 7th rounder, I would rate him as high as the 2nd for just his physical abilities alone; you're talking about a good sized corner at 6'1" and almost 200 pounds who has the movement skills of a 5'9" and under guy. The only reasons that I could think of why he would be rated so low are off the field issues and the fact that he didn't play against NFL level talent all of the time. However, his skill set translates very well to the NFL and he would immediately become a solid contributor for us.

His big problems: suspended for the Texas A&M game due to team rules violation; and arrested in 2011 for posession of 2 ounces or less of weed.
Again, it was his pre-season games that had me thinking that he was going to need a lot more work that I initially thought. Scrub WRs were running circles around him.

Today was very promising, he showed a bit of what he could potentially become. Stuck pretty close in coverage to a very fast and quick receiver in Eddie Royal. That was the CB that I thought we would be getting.

chiefzilla1501 10-20-2014 12:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool (Post 11032315)
I and Direckshun were onto him during the draft period. I thought that he would be a 4th-5th rounder though because he was still raw and coming from a weak conference. Dorsey took him in the 3rd.

It was his play during the pre-season that made me think that he wasn't ready for the NFL and needed a ton of more work. He was getting abused by scrubs out there. Still believed that he had the physical talent to be great, just wondered how long and if he would ever get there after how poorly he played in the final pre-season games.
But look at where that gets us...
It led us to give up on Eric Fisher, who's actually playing pretty well right now
It led us to trash Knile Davis and Travis Kelce last year
It led us to demand Santos get cut ASAP even though he's hit his last 6 (including a big one today)
It led to people asking if Gaines should be on the roster if not for his draft pick

In exchange, people were livid that Malcolm Bronson wasn't getting a shot.

Like I said before, the preseason is a TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE place to evaluate rookie talent these days. It's a reality we have to deal with until the players negotiate a new CBA.

ThaVirus 10-20-2014 12:11 AM
I liked Malcolm Bronson. Much better than Dan Sorenson at least..

aturnis 10-20-2014 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 11032454)
But look at where that gets us...
It led us to give up on Eric Fisher, who's actually playing pretty well right now
It led us to trash Knile Davis and Travis Kelce last year
It led us to demand Santos get cut ASAP even though he's hit his last 6 (including a big one today)
It led to people asking if Gaines should be on the roster if not for his draft pick

In exchange, people were livid that Malcolm Bronson wasn't getting a shot.

Like I said before, the preseason is a TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE place to evaluate rookie talent these days. It's a reality we have to deal with until the players negotiate a new CBA.
Fisher whiffed a lot today. Very bad. Only games he played well in, he had lots of help.

chiefzilla1501 10-20-2014 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaVirus (Post 11032455)
I liked Malcolm Bronson. Much better than Dan Sorenson at least..
I was never high on Sorenson but I defended him anyway. And this is exactly the reason why.

Bronson was in year 2. Sorenson was a rookie during a shortened training camp. We just don't know what he would have done. Considering how terrible Eric Fisher and Gaines were in the preseason, who's to say he wouldn't have improved with coaching. It's not as much about Sorenson as much as it is the new CP mentality to give up on any rookie who doesn't flash in his first preseason action.

Direckshun 10-20-2014 12:28 AM
I'll say this: I am shocked that the Chiefs have turned shitstain preseason performances like Eric Fisher, Demetrius Harris, and Phillip Gaines and magically made them turn the corner once the season began.

OldSchool 10-20-2014 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 11032470)
I was never high on Sorenson but I defended him anyway. And this is exactly the reason why.

Bronson was in year 2. Sorenson was a rookie during a shortened training camp. We just don't know what he would have done. Considering how terrible Eric Fisher and Gaines were in the preseason, who's to say he wouldn't have improved with coaching. It's not as much about Sorenson as much as it is the new CP mentality to give up on any rookie who doesn't flash in his first preseason action.
New era of instant gratification.

chiefzilla1501 10-20-2014 12:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 11032472)
I'll say this: I am shocked that the Chiefs have turned shitstain preseason performances like Eric Fisher, Demetrius Harris, and Phillip Gaines and magically made them turn the corner once the season began.
5 less OTAs and restrictions on 2 a days
Coaches unable to even talk to players until months later than usual
No contact drills until months into the offseason

Rookies got a really shitty deal in the new CBA. Rookies are going to struggle a lot more until these ridiculous CBA rules get lifted.

Mr. Arrowhead 10-20-2014 07:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MahiMike (Post 11031509)
I was wondering why the diss on this guy early on. He was a big reason why we won today.
because he wasnt all pro corner coming out of the 3rd round

Mother****erJones 10-20-2014 07:11 AM
He did a really good job. It's nice to see a corner of ours looking for the ball and getting his head around. I'm happy for him. Hope he turns into a stud.

rabblerouser 10-20-2014 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aturnis (Post 11032468)
Fisher whiffed a lot today. Very bad. Only games he played well in, he had lots of help.
Eric Fisher is still a steaming dog dune.

Exoter175 10-20-2014 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun (Post 11032472)
I'll say this: I am shocked that the Chiefs have turned shitstain preseason performances like Eric Fisher, Demetrius Harris, and Phillip Gaines and magically made them turn the corner once the season began.
What game are you guys watching where Demetrius Harris has done ANYTHING?

That guy in the pre-season and the regular season has been dog shit.

In fact, It was like game 3 or game 4 of the pre-season that we targeted this guy like 95 times and he ended up with like 2 catches and 46 drops, and 13 out of position "get the **** on that side of the line"'s.

You want to give Fisher credit? Sure. You want to give Gaines credit? **** yeah, he's on fire for the few snaps he's seen, but Demetrius Harris?

CMON MAN

jonzie04 10-20-2014 02:04 PM
Gaines pff grade is solid. 0 allowed completions on 5 targets is very impressive.

"Phillip Gaines, CB: +2.7

Breakdown: After seeing just three snaps prior to this week, the rookie from Rice got his first start and produced a game to be proud of. Targeted five times, none of the balls his way were completed and he got his hands in to knock one away.

Signature Stat: Gaines was the only corner this week to give up no catches when targeted more than once."


Also if anyone cares Hudson and Sherman made there all star team of the week by turning in the highest grades at their respective positions.

ShortRoundChief 10-20-2014 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exoter175 (Post 11032898)
What game are you guys watching where Demetrius Harris has done ANYTHING?

That guy in the pre-season and the regular season has been dog shit.

In fact, It was like game 3 or game 4 of the pre-season that we targeted this guy like 95 times and he ended up with like 2 catches and 46 drops, and 13 out of position "get the **** on that side of the line"'s.

You want to give Fisher credit? Sure. You want to give Gaines credit? **** yeah, he's on fire for the few snaps he's seen, but Demetrius Harris?

CMON MAN
#KEEP DOUBTING DEMETRIUS HARRIS

Exoter175 10-20-2014 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonzie04 (Post 11033756)
Gaines pff grade is solid. 0 allowed completions on 5 targets is very impressive.

"Phillip Gaines, CB: +2.7

Breakdown: After seeing just three snaps prior to this week, the rookie from Rice got his first start and produced a game to be proud of. Targeted five times, none of the balls his way were completed and he got his hands in to knock one away.

Signature Stat: Gaines was the only corner this week to give up no catches when targeted more than once."


Also if anyone cares Hudson and Sherman made there all star team of the week by turning in the highest grades at their respective positions.
God damned right they did. If Colquitt weren't the MVP in KC, I'd have half a mind to vote for Sherman, I love that little bowling ball of a fullback.

Exoter175 10-20-2014 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by J Diddy (Post 11033841)
#KEEP DOUBTING DEMETRIUS HARRIS
KAYY:clap:

chiefzilla1501 10-20-2014 06:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aturnis (Post 11032468)
Fisher whiffed a lot today. Very bad. Only games he played well in, he had lots of help.
Fisher was supposed to be an outright disaster. I don't think he had a "very bad game." Could have and should have been better. And he's proven he's at least an adequate starter by now. I think most realize that his big improvement will come if he can get a whole offseason of strength training in.

Rausch 10-20-2014 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonzie04 (Post 11033756)
Also if anyone cares Hudson and Sherman made there all star team of the week by turning in the highest grades at their respective positions.
Thank God we didn't move him to G.

And what's the deal with Stephenson?...

aturnis 10-20-2014 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rausch (Post 11034540)
Thank God we didn't move him to G.

And what's the deal with Stephenson?...
They're making him earn it. That coupled with Cooper, and players earning more time for good play means the age of accountability has begun.

bobhill 10-20-2014 07:15 PM
Can stevenson play guard? Put his ass in at left guard

chiefzilla1501 10-20-2014 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aturnis (Post 11034633)
They're making him earn it. That coupled with Cooper, and players earning more time for good play means the age of accountability has begun.
That's not a bad thing. I think the Chiefs might have bargained their way into getting a really cheap contract out of a swing lineman. I am okay with Stephenson starting, but his ability to play multiple positions especially for as cheap as he'll re-sign for is awesome.

Exoter175 10-20-2014 08:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobhill (Post 11034638)
Can stevenson play guard? Put his ass in at left guard
You'll have to ask Direkshun about that, but if I remember right, he had some kind of metric or footwork issue that prevented him from being a viable option at Left Guard.

milkman 10-20-2014 08:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exoter175 (Post 11034428)
God damned right they did. If Colquitt weren't the MVP in KC, I'd have half a mind to vote for Sherman, I love that little bowling ball of a fullback.
Sherman is big reason this team started the season with 9 wins last year.

Exoter175 10-20-2014 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman (Post 11034965)
Sherman is big reason this team started the season with 9 wins last year.
Absolutely and that trade ended up being stellar, and I'll even admit I questioned it at first, but I've come around to be very appreciative for it! :D


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