The problem is that the rookie wage scale has changed the scenario that existed the year the Browns did that. The risk with a QB has dropped a ton. When you consider how important a QB is I don't think its a hard decision. Geno/Siler vs. Bray/Teo. I don't have to think twice about that. You are much more likely to find an impact ILB later in the draft, in FA, or hell, undrafted ie. the guy Teo would be replacing.

We have 3 very good LB's. We won't be killed if the 4th isn't amazing. We can't **** around getting a QB. I think its foolish to be alright taking the 3rd or 4th, maybe 5th QB in the draft so we can improve another position. ILB isn't even our second most important position. You could argue that besides CB its behind DE and S.

By all means, lets go out and draft an ILB #1 because "its not a wasted pick."

I would disagree with you. Our needs are exactly this.

1. QB
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2. CB/ILB
3. Tackle
4-whatever Guard, DE, Safety, Tight End.

The point you are just not getting is the talent difference here, and how marginally they might be, or more importantly, where our FO decides to place them at.

Imagine this was Madden for a second, so I can dumb this down.

you have 5 QB's in the first two rounds, they are ranked as such.

1. Smith: 82 Overall
2. Barkley: 81 Overall
3. Wilson: 81 Overall
4. Bray: 80 Overall
5. Glennon: 77 Overall

2 of those guys will get taken in the first round, the other 3 will be available in the second round.

Now lets say ILB goes like this

1. Te'O: 87 Overall
2. Minter: 83 Overall
3. Ogletree: 81 Overall
4. Johnson: 80 Overall
5. Skov: 78 Overall

You're telling me that you wouldn't take, say, Te'O at an overall score of 87, and then draft Wilson at an 81 overall? Instead you'd take Smith at 82 and Ogletree at 81? Seems like you get better Value out of Te'o/Wilson than Smith/Ogletree.

Of course, that is under the assumption that no QB separates themselves and proves to be elite, because none of them have so far.

You basically, are, yeah. Play it off with sarcasm, but Jovan Belcher's spot in our 3-4 defense isn't that ****ing important. Why the **** would we even CONSIDER drafting that spot at #1 overall when it can be had later in the draft?

And before you say "these QBs can be drafted later on," the answer is "No." They should not be drafted later. They're so much more ****ing important. The potential reward is higher, and the potential bust factor is negligible.

What are the kicker/punter rankings? If we could get a 99 punter with our 83 QB, and then pick up a 78 ILB, THEN we'd be talking!

I didn't say that, now did I?

I'm just saying if all of the top 5 QB's are on the same level, and the top 5 ILB's are not, merely as an example, why wouldn't we go get the best player at a position we need and then take a very minimalistic hit and get our QB second?

Furthermore, you guys aren't even considering for a moment that the new HC and FO will draft a guy they like, not BQBA with the #1 pick.

What happens if the Chiefs braintrust falls in love with Bray over Smith/etc?

Do you guys want them taking Bray first, a round ahead of his projection? or would you guys rather they take him in the second and use that first on a guy who can start today?

We have a lot of metrics to digest until the draft, and you guys are automatically assuming that Geno is the #1 pick of the draft because we need a QB, and only taking into consideration that need.

You guys haven't even begun to hypothesize the idea that perhaps our new HC won't like Geno, perhaps he likes another guy. Perhaps that HC might see the value play here, and knock out two needs by taking his QB in the second, instead of the first.

Crazy right?

And you can say the exact same thing for every other position on the football field in this draft.

e.g., Luke Joeckel is currently rated the #1 OT, but Barrett Jones, the 2011Outland Trophy winner at LT, could be had at the top of the second.

Dee Milliner is not markedly better than David Amerson.

Manti Te'o is not markedly better than Kevin Minter.

And we can do this all day long.

As you say, we can get similar talent in the second as we can in the first with just about every single position.

You should take your own words to heart. There is a reason that 137 other posters have been beating their respective heads against a wall in replying to you over and over and over. You really aren't as smart as you think you are.

So, your secondary reason for not taking a QB with the first pick is that we have Ricky Stanzi on the roster? A guy who obviously couldn't beat out Cassel or Quinn? Stunning argument.

Really? Who's the QB that will be available in the second round that's better, that has more upside, that has a higher floor than Geno Smith?

And then, who's the OT who is so much better than everyone else in this draft that you couldn't find comparable talent at the top of the second round?

See, the thing is that the vast majority of quality posters here feel that Geno Smith is the talent in this draft. On the other hand, the guys who are supporting the "let's draft a LT, or a MLB, or yet another DT" are, for the majority, the true idiots around here that have proven themselves idiots over months and years of ignorant and inane postings.

And that's the thing. After Geno just put in three years of starting at the QB position that equalled/surpassed Andrew Luck and Robert Griffin statistically, and that he's shown game in and game out that he's got the necessary tools to be an elite level prospect at the QB position.

So, here's a little justification for you to see:

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No, I'm really not. All I'm saying right now, is that Te'o is the guy in this draft, as of right now. He's the Bee's Knees as they'll say. So far the general consensus is that the QB position is a cluster**** in this draft, it isn't great, there is no separation, and of all drafts not to waste a top pick in, this is the one not to waste a top pick on a QB in. ****, Pretty sure Kiper has already even hinted at that, but I hate Kiper so lets not put stock in him.

Point is, it isn't about taking a risk and getting boom or bust, its about priorities. If we can take that boom/bust pick in the second and get a guaranteed starter in a position of need in the first, why not take my route? And kill two birds with one stone?

We already have our MVP punter :shake:

The problem isn't that I don't understand what you are saying. The problem is that the difference between Geno/Wilson and the rest is big enough. Having Barkley over Wilson is crazy. Also, ILB being tied with CB is crazy. That is the major issue that creates the argument. That and not understanding that the QB position is SO important that even if you aren't gaining a massive difference between 1st and 2nd round QBs, its still more than enough to make QB the pick over Teo.

You also asked me who Glennon was a while back. How can you possibly rank him properly or understand the gap between him and Geno/Wilson?

That's not what I meant, what I mean is the mock drafturbator is so ****ing worthless he doesn't deserve his own thread much less an exploding head reaction when GENO will be a CHIEF with the 1st overrall pick.

Holy shit.

You can't possibly be this ****ing stupid.

If we're playing madden, what are the speeds of the linebackers? That makes a big difference for me.

Colquitt's on the last year of his contract. He'll need leverage. Call up Gene Smith and find out what his scouts know about punters.

And your route sucks. It delays the most important position unnecessarily. It takes away our agency and choice, which is the WHOLE ****ING POINT of giving the worst team in the NFL the #1 overall pick. Why settle for Mike Glennon or (worse) Ryan Nassib when we can pick from Geno Smith or Tyler Wilson (both of him will be gone likely by the top 10). Why would you delay taking the best possible QB all so you can get ****ing TEO?

And Te'o isn't the ****ing bee's knees of this draft. He doesn't have elite speed. He's not a physical freak like Pat Willis. He's probably pretty smart and pretty dedicated. He could be a good player, but so could Shane Skov, who can be had likely TWO ****ING ROUNDS later. Te'o isn't Patrick Willis like you think he is. He's not Ray Lewis. He's James Laurenaitis at best.

Taylor Lewan is going to be every bit worth the 1st overall pick in this draft after today.

Lewan has only given up 2 sacks the entire season and today he owned the best pass rusher in college in pass pro. Aside from the one mistake on a running play, he dominated Clowney. Clowney didn't get anywhere near Michigan's QB. No pressures and no sacks.

Not saying we should take this guy. Just saying that there will be a player or two who is worth the first pick and right now Lewan looks like one of them.

So before you say that Barrett Jones is just as good as Lewan or Joekel, step back and realize that you're a dumbass.

Perfect. Pioli can brainwash Clark into taking the Michigan OT, because that's what Daddy in law Parcells did.

I decided to do something I dislike, and bold my responses inside the quote, because you made so many retorts.

Branden Albert said he wants to stay in KC, and Pioli won't have say in the decisions.

It's up to Geno to keep his value in the top 10. Just hope he doesn't shit the bed at the Senior Bowl or Combine.

1 of these QB's will be a top 10 talent and it's probably going to be Geno or Wilson.

Personally, I've invested a shitload of time watching a lot of different QBs and developed a QB big board that is twelve deep. I watch a lot of games live and a lot of youtube snap-by-snaps since I don't have the luxury of coaches film. Sac also puts in a lot of time watching and doing research. I think you might be a little out of your depth with some of your remarks there.

Uhh... are you a ****ing idiot?

His response is right ****ing there.

If you want to play that game at QB, why not play it with the OTHER positions. Because in this particular draft, there are really no guys that separate themselves from the pack for ANY of the positions besides defensive line and pass rusher.

If all things are equal for the ILBs, why not take a guy in the 2nd and take a QB in the first?

If all things are equal for the OTs, why not take a guy in the 2nd and take a QB in the first?

For some goddamn reason with you it has to be the QB position that gets the shaft, and talent is settled for later on.

****ing why the **** would you do that you ****ing idiot?

You just did you ****ing moron.

Hmmm...

Let's take a look at three possible outcomes come draft day:

1. Geno Smith in the first and Kevin Minter in the second.

2. Manti Te'o in the first and, say, Ryan Nassib or Mike Glennon in the second.

3. Luke Joeckel in the first and trade our second for Alex Smith.

I think I'll go with door number one, Bob. That's two Day 1 high level starters. Yes please.

Manti Te'o isn't this prized treasure that every defense needs. He's not a once-in-a-lifetime player. He's not ****ing Ray Lewis. I don't know why the hell you think he is.

He's ****ing not.

Not understanding that the QB position is so important? Are you really that dumb? Do you really think that I rank QB play so lowly that I don't know the importance of the QB position in football? Did you even play football? Just a question, I did.

It was a joke you idiot, Jesus Christ. Sarcasm played upon you guys as Glennon now made his way into a Mock as the #1 QB taken, after it was a constant flip flop of Geno and Barkley all year, which contradicts your point made above this about how its been Geno/Wilson all along. It hasn't and the scouts/talking heads agree with me, else they would be posting mocks like last year where it was a consensus that it would be Luck/RG3 only for the #1/#2 spots, and no one else.

:spock:

Sometimes you have to dumb it down that far for people to grasp the concept that perhaps there is, in fact, a logical process to the draft. And not just drafting a QB with your first pick because you need one, regardless of who else is on the board.

I like you now.

We won't let Dustin leave, this is the Kansas City Chiefs, we set records for most punts inside of the 20. How could we ever let that go?

As for the draft route, it doesn't do anything but allow us to get maximum value out of our first two draft picks, nothing else.

I really doubt at this point, that both Wilson and Smith will be gone inside of the top 10. I also doubt that there will be a thin group of solid QB's at the start of the second round. There will be 2, at most 3 QB's taken in the first, and right now, that might even look high. That is how bad this QB draft class is. That does not mean this draft class isn't good as a whole.

So many of you seem to think that the draft is based solely on the QB position. That if there isn't a solid group of QB's, the draft sucks and there isn't a solid group of players in the draft at all. That is incorrect, this is probably the most stacked linemen draft we've seen in a long time. There are a ton of serviceable QB's available, as well as a ton of linebackers available. I'm not going to argue that there isn't talent in this draft at the ILB position, I'm just saying that if there is ONE guy who ends up being leaps and bounds above everyone else, and that isn't at the QB position, and it ends up being a guy in a position of need, why not take him and get your QB later? You certainly won't lose talent by doing this.

And I really think you are underselling Te'o, it is really hard to place value on a solid tackler from a drafting perspective, but in game time situations, priceless. And what has been our biggest weakness in the front 7 for the last few years? Tackling inside the tackles, go figure.

Wanna bet?

Smith and Wilson will be gone within the top 10. Barkley will be gone in the first round. Glennon MIGHT be gone as well, depending on what Aaron Murray is doing.

We're going to have to pick from Tyler Bray and Ryan Nassib in the 2nd round, both players who need time on the bench with the coaches before they get thrown onto the field.

They're garbage compared to Geno Smith and Tyler Wilson. Both of those guys have elite QB talent that you don't find in every draft. It's idiocy to pass that up all in the name of draft value.

All you're doing right now is ensuring me that the QBs will be there in the 2nd round. I think you're a ****ing lunatic. There's no way a Day 1 starting QB will be there in the 2nd round for us. At least 3 will be taken in the 1st. Likely 4, and possibly 5.

Those are NOT good odds for our guy that we draft. All so we could take ****ing TEO?

Or:
1. Geno Smith
2. Xavier Rhodes
3a. Margus Hunt
3b. Jonathan Franklin
4. Baccari Rambo
5. AJ Klein
6. Marcus Lattimore
7. Ray Ray Armstrong

Drafting a LB to improve the tackling is like drafting a WR to improve the drop percentage.

What you want is a LB who will always be in a position to make the play. That's what Patrick Willis does very well. The opposite is a guy who is incapable of getting into a good position, but always wraps up when he does. Like Mike Maslowski.

Te'o is something in between. But he sure as **** ain't Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis, and that's not going to help us out one bit.

Geno Smith, however, WILL help us out if he even plays decent. He'll help us out A LOT.

After saying the NFL isn't that much different and also being willing to take Teo over Geno/Wilson, yeah I do think you don't understand. Congrats on playing football though. Certainly hasn't helped you understand how important an NFL QB is.

All along? Did I say that? Talking about right now. Your listing of Barkley over Wilson shows you are stuck on pre-season thoughts. Watch some Barkley. I have never listed other mocks as my source so not sure how what they say contradicts anything.

I'm going to say right now that it is Geno, but Wilson and Bray will give him a run for the money, but I do not think there will be two QB's taken in the top 10, and if it does happen, we're talking #9 or #10 itself. I don't see many QB's taken in the late round either, as most of them have young QB's from the last 5 years of drafting, both in terms of starters and backups.

Who is to say I don't do the same, or more? Are you in fact a scout for the NFL? You didn't answer that question.

Idiot, no. Genius level IQ, yes. And his response wasn't right there, as it did not fit the question I asked, go back and read it over again. I made the point clear that both I and the rest of the talking heads believe the QB cluster**** to be a tossup, and the LB position is not a cluster****, there are guys out there that have separated, Te'o is one of them. At least in my eyes, and those of the professionals, for now. Again as I stated ****ing years ago now, we've yet to see Senior Bowls, Pro Days, and a Combine, which is where all of this changes.

As for the last bit, I'm not shafting Talent at the QB level really, if they are all the same, if they are all literally at a tie, why the **** would I EVER IN MY LIFE take one with the first pick of the draft, if there is a position of need that has separated himself from the rest, knowing I can get THE EXACT SAME PRODUCT at QB in the 2nd, rather than the first?

I wouldn't be shafting talent if they are all equal, now would I? ERMAHGERD THERT MERKS SCERNTS


I just did what? There wasn't really a structure in there to make that remark with..........lol

If you really think Nassib/Glennon is our option with our 2nd round draft pick, you are putting far too much "need" for QB's going into this draft for the teams in the NFL lol. Also, go ahead and put Bray in as the #4 guy ahead of Nassib, Glennon, and Murray, if you have Murray ahead of him.

That being said, if my option is Te'o in the first and Wilson/Bray/Smith/Barkley in the 2nd, I'd rather that, RIGHT NOW (qualifying word, be careful) than Smith and Minter/Ogletree.

Emphasis on RIGHT NOW, since that is the qualifying word in that sentence and everything is subject and likely to change after the combine.

Because I think a lot of people here on CP undervalue him because all they want to look at is a QB right now.

And to be honest, that is a completely justifiable reason to make that statement, because if you take a step back right now, all this forum is about is QB's right now, we don't give a **** what else is going on with this roster, QB is the only position we care about. Not the contracts/lack of contracts for Bowe, Albert, Colquitt, much more important players right now than which of 5 QB's we take in this draft who haven't managed to really separate themselves yet.

Shameful really, collectively we are all so narrow minded and focused on Geno that we have lost interest elsewhere.

At some point you said you needed to look at more tape on a few guys. Kinda sounds like somebody not doing as much research as NightFyre. Or maybe we all misunderstood you yet again. It's all the sarcasm and lack of reading comprehension. Yeah, everyone is making the exact same mistakes. Probably not just you.

2012 Tackle Leaders:

1. Luke Kuechly: 1st round
2. NaVorro Bowman: 3rd round
3. Chad Greenway: 1st round
4. Jerod Mayo: 1st round
5. Jerrell Freeman: Undrafted free agent
6. James Laurinaitis: 2nd round
7. Bobby Wagner: 2nd round
8. Lavonte David: 2nd round
9. London Fletcher: Undrafted free agent
10. Paul Posluszny: 2nd round
11. Karlos Dansby: 2nd round
12. Daryl Washington: 2nd round
13. Russell Allen: Undrafted free agent
14. Perry Riley: 4th round
15. Vontaze Burfict: Undrafted free agent
16. Derrick Johnson: 1st round
17. Morgan Burnett: 3rd round
18. David Harris: 2nd round
19. Curtis Lofton: 2nd round
20. Rey Maualuga: 2nd round

http://www.sportsdatallc.com/wp-cont...qbs_v6_650.png

And who exactly is going to be taking all of these QB's in the first round? I'm curious.

And also, until we see a Combine and a few pro days, we cannot assume any player has truly separated themselves from the rest, when the talking heads themselves are picking a new QB every week for the #1 QB taken.

Ewwww, and then lol @ Lattimore.

I think you're underselling Te'o stil, but it doesn't bother me. I do agree that Geno will help a lot, but how much more will Geno help over, say, Wilson or Bray? So far from what everyone has seen, that gets paid for their input, not much if any. So why not go ahead and take that guy who is head and shoulders above the rest, Te'O and then get your equal value QB in the 2nd?

Don't just argue that I'm wrong, jump inside of my hypothesis and justify your decision, or simply say "In your hypothesis you are correct, we should do that". I'm tired of having to argue adjusted variables in your guys' arguments here. My argument is simply if everything is set in stone as it sits and there is ZERO separation at QB and we are GUARANTEED to get the same talent in round 2 as round 1, would you really draft a QB? That's all I'm asking here. Simple Yes or No would suffice. "Yes" for "I'm an idiot" "No" for "I have a brain and use it at least thrice a day".

So again, you haven't comprehended anything I've written and you're just crying in your coacoa puffs because I'm not on your "Draft Geno" bandwagon? Build a bridge cry baby. I'm not sold on Geno, but I am sold on Te'o, and until Geno proves otherwise, I will not be sold on Geno or any other QB so far. Does that mean I am saying we shouldn't draft a QB? NO, you're dumb. I'm just saying we should get one in the second round if one does not emerge as an Elite QB.

As for QBs, I have Wilson above Barkley, but that doesn't mean Wilson will get drafted first.

Contrary to popular belief Mr. Herptyderp, teams don't normally draft players based on their ranking.

HUGE ****ING SHOCK

MIND BLOWN

We understand you perfectly. My issue isn't just where you think Wilson will get drafted, its also that you have him listed over Barkley in your actual rankings.

So you're under the assumption that because I say I need to see more game tape, that automatically means NightFyre has seen more than I? Because I openly admit to the fact that I haven't seen every single snap this season? Jesus Christ, really? You act like I've never seen Geno take a snap, even though I've already mentioned I've seen him play quite a few games this season. Hmmmm. Total logic on your part. Certainly seems to me like you're trying to take my modest comment about needing to see more game tape, as an angle to assert the idea that both you and NightFyre are somehow better at talent evaluation than I because you ASSUME you've seen more game tape, or that seeing the most Game Tape means you have a better evaluation than anyone else. I wonder how the world of Scouting works if that is to be the case.
So you're saying the majority of the Tackles being made in the NFL, are by 1st and 2nd round talents?

Where did the 5-7th round guys go? :/

Alright gonna play some devil's advocate here.

Say that 3 weeks from now at the Senior Bowl, every QB there doesn't look great. They all look about the same. Nothing special or standing out to an NFL coaching staff and scouts have concerns.

Then at the combine, some of them show really good IQ, but again their physical abilities are good in different areas (size, touch, accuracy, etc).

Going into April, scouts from across the league, as well as GM's, reportedly don't think that any of these QB's warrant a top 10 pick because the class is that bad.

You try to trade down but nobody bites and you're stuck at 1st overall. What do you do?

Right?

Because I believe in logic and practical analysis, and don't believe that at eam will draft a guy solely because Kiper ranks him higher.

So while I do have Wilson very high on my list, I don't think the draft will follow that suit because what works for one team, will not always work for another.

You'll also remember that there seems to be USC QB love in the NFL, often making guys go much earlier than they should have in the draft, Barkley is definitely going to benefit from that IMO, but I do not think more than 3 QBs are taken in the draft, thus why I accepted that bet earlier for the sig.

Depends on what the rest of the players in the Senior Bowl do, how the combine goes, and how Pro Days go, and how we work Free Agency.

If all of the QBs are Decent but show no separation, we sign Albert, and Te'O doesn't separate like I think he has, I'm drafting Geno Smith unless Wilson is guaranteed to be 2nd round talent.

I need to justify my opinions? What the **** do you think I've been doing?

How about YOU tell me what makes Te'o so ****ing special? And how about YOU tell me why the **** teams like Jacksonville, Oakland, Cleveland, Arizona, Buffalo, New York, and many others would ALL pass on a QB in the first round?

You're the one making the ridiculous argument that only one or two QBs will be drafted in the first round. I'm not backing shit for you.

Go do your ****ing homework before you lecture me on logic and foundations of an argument, when all you've been doing is using tricks and sophistry to pimp up an ILB being taken at #1 overall.

It's funny how highly you think of yourself. You can keep screaming about logic all you want. I'm assuming when you say that no more than 3 QBs are going in the draft, that you mean the 1st round.

That's your entire ****ing problem. It's based on the assumption that Te'o is "head and shoulders above the rest"

That's wrong. The foundation of your argument is based on a faulty premise. I've been trying to tell you that all ****ing night.

And how does that happen exactly? Skipping on Geno thinking Wilson will be there in the 2nd is reckless. Accepting a guy like Bray or maybe Glennon over Geno because of Teo is silly. Even with a bad pro day ect, there will be nothing remotely close to a guarantee that Wilson will be there in the second.

Let me expand. The combine is over and you feel this way. No QB's are said to be worth a top 10 pick.

Joekel, Lewan, J. Jones, D. Moore, Star L. and Werner look like top 5 picks.

Scouts say that eitherTyler Bray, Mike Glennon or Matt Barkley will be in round 2, if not all of them.

You know this at the end of February before free agency.

AJ Klein brings you exactly what Manti Teo brings you. Just sayin

He thinks we don't understand his argument. That if all the QBs are equal then take the BPA, which is Teo. He keeps missing that we understand his argument but think he is completely wrong that the QBs are equal and that Teo is not the BPA. He then wanted us all to just invite ourselves into his hypothetical for a moment. When we didn't, we were idiots who don't think as logically as he does. He doesn't seem to understand that we don't give a **** about his hypothetical. We are talking about what actually is, and that involves Teo not being BPA and Bray/Glennon/Barkley not being equal to Geno or Wilson.

I agree with SNR here. Te'o isn't even as good as Luke Keuchly was last year.

I don't see a big difference between Te'o and Ogletree/Skov/Minter.

Why sacrifice ILB value when we can sacrifice QB value? /Excreter

The problem is, he doesn't have a grasp of positional value.

I don't give a rat's **** if Te'o is the petri dish love child of Dick Butkus, Pat Willis, Jack Lambert, Mike Singletary, Brian Urlacher and Ray Lewis. (And he's not close to these guys and we know it, it's just that this functionally reeruned dipshit doesn't know it. He probably paid for the ESPN Insider and feels the need to validate his purchase by parroting Kiper.)

He's still a Mike in a 34. The ****ing punter has more positional value. The right offensive guard has more positional value.

And this dumb **** just doesn't get it. At all.

Either that or he's the archangel of all internet trolls.

I'm going with the former. There's no way possible a troll would put forth so much effort in such inane and excessive forum loquaciousness. The guy is just one amazingly stubborn dipshit.

What do I think you've been doing? I think you've been changing the variables within my argument to state your opinion against mine, after changing said variable. That is not allowed in my hypothetical argument, so try to stay on track if you want to disprove my idea or want to judge me on my choice in MY scenario, rather than create one for yourself for me to dice up and ridicule. I'll gladly wait.

As for Te'o, he's a solid tackler and one of the best in terms of Pass Coverage, you need that in this league from your ILB's, and there aren't many in this draft that I've seen that are nearly as good in pass coverage on top of run support.

As for your teams that you suggest will draft QB's. Arizona might pass all together if Reid lands there. Buffalo might keep Fitz and his contract, he isn't that bad and I don't think they've got enough talent built up on the offensive side of the ball to go after a QB right now. New York is a cluster**** with Tebow, Sanchize and McElroy there, I doubt they add a first round QB there with how bipolar their defense has been this year. Cleveland just spent a pick on Weeden, and McCoy not long ago, and Quinn before that, no way do they do it here again in this shitty of a draft.

I think Oakland likes what little they saw from Pryor and I believe have Palmer under contract still, I think they'll wait til the 2nd or 3rd to get a QB if they decide to go that route.

Jacksonville just spent a pick in 2010 on Gabbert and signed Henne, I don't honestly think they'll dip so quickly into the first round for a QB, especially in this draft.

So again, who do you have taking QB's? I've said at most 3 in the first round, and I think that's fairly accurate so far.

I've done nothing to pimp up an ILB at #1, I just said I'm not opposed to Te'O right now if we can get the same value in the 2nd if the QB's don't manage to separate themselves and Te'o blows up at the combine.

There's a lot of qualifiers in that statement I just made, so tread lightly before you dissect.
I'm pretty awesome, and yes I mean 1st round. Thanks for the correction!
We don't know if that is wrong, actually. We will find out after the Combine and after his Pro Day, only then will we be able to truly evaluate him and place him correctly. As of right now, he's been phenomenal.

As of right now, I think Wilson will be, as I believe it'll most likely be Geno and Barkley taken in the first as there is little need for QB's in this draft at least 1st round selections. If that doesn't happen, at worst we get Bray who I think is going to be on par with Wilson or just a touch behind him. Keep in mind, I also am very high on Te'o right now, and that could change too. If he disappoints at the combine, I'll be 110% on the Geno/Wilson nutswingers club should they do better than average.

So there are no QB's slated for the top 10, Bray and Barkley are said to be in the 2nd round, Te'o isn't listed as a top 5 pick, and I've yet to sign Albert?

I'll retort before I decide. Has Geno distanced himself as the #1 candidate for QB?

:spock:
So, **** my Hypothetical. Bray and Wilson are on par with Geno, and Barkley is up in the air.

Te'o is hands down the best ILB going into the combine. If I believe any of those 4 QB's are available in the 2nd round, I take Te'o hands down, as I believe there is no real separation at QB, and until I see evidence of that, I'll stick with it.

Sorry, that is just sound logic right there.

And that's where I disagree, I think there is a difference and that difference is pass coverage mainly, but I might even agree with you on Keuchly.

I think you mean, why sacrifice ILB value when you don't have to sacrifice QB value, ****stick.
Trolling, definitely. Stubborn, absolutely, dumb? Nahhh.

I understand positional value, but I think you're seriously overvaluing many positions on our roster, and overvaluing or even undervaluing many players at their respective positiions.

Even in a 34, Mike is still one of the most important positions on the field.

Then again, I'm a total homer because I played Mike in school

Now you have it, it is all unveiled, I'm going homer for Te'o because I played his position when I played football (unlike most of you).

Chiefs
Bills
Jets
Cardinals

Hell maybe one or more of
Browns If Kelly or whoever doesn't care for Weeden
Jags if new GM doesn't want Tebow
Raiders
Chargers Some of these "precious" mocks have mentioned this

I don't see any way Wilson survives that. Especially with the new rookie scale. If the scal didn't exist the Jags and Browns would be off the list. Chargers as well.

You also only have sound logic if Bray and Wilson are on par, which they aren't. Yet another post where you mention how smart(or not dumb) you are. Shocking. I hope for your sake you don't have to keep telling yourself how smart you are in real life.

NO WAY Glennon is first QB off the board. Crackpot mock draft.

You're overpimping Te'o. By a lot.

Is this your first NFL draft? Do you know what kind of players go at #1 overall?

They aren't dipshits who are "solid pass defenders and tacklers."

Patrick Willis was the last "sure thing" the ILB world has seen in the NFL draft. He was a physical marvel. And he didn't even go in the top 5.

You're acting like Te'o is Patrick Willis, and he's really not.

And even if he were, he's not a pass rusher. He doesn't have elite speed. He's a try-hard Tebow guy with the talent and smarts to play the position in the NFL. Nothing more than that. He'll probably be a good football player in the pros.

"Good football players" aren't what you're looking for at the top overall pick. You're looking for franchise leaders. Guys who will win games for your team. And for that you look to QBs.

If that's something you've already brought up, it's because the counterarguments you give are faulty, specious, and weak. You have yet to respond to our point about sacrificing QB value but not sacrificing ILB value

Thread should have started and ended here.

I think in terms of "we think" they need a QB and "we actually need a QB", some of those are mistaken or already overly crowded. Jets, Cardinals, I don't know. And just like that, you have the possibility of Wilson ending up in the second.

And I really think you are overemphasizing the Rookie Scale, just because you don't have to pay them as much, doesn't mean you should reach a little and shoot for the moon, you're wasting a pick if you do that and aren't completely sold on a guy.

I'm not even going to read this rebuttal, I'm stopping at the first line and replying with...........You might be right. I might have Te'o overvalued right now. I'll at least admit to that right now. You guys have yet to even ease back from the crushing weight of the Geno Opression you are trying to serve up here.

Agreed

Edit: I read it a little and noticed you made an emphasis to point out "Franchise Leaders" who do you think ILB are? They are your defensive captains, your defensive leaders. When you hear people talk about the 49ers defense, you hear about Willis and Bowman. The Chiefs D? Johnson, Hali, and Houston. Denver? Dumervil and Miller, Ravens? Lewis, Reed, and Suggs. Green Bay? Matthews, Hawk, etc. So on and so forth.

And I guess a point that isn't going noticed here, is that I believe that there are intangibles in Te'o like leadership that you can't quite quantify, and although we have it with DJ, we'll have it in our next generation with Te'o here. Just using that to express another point I hadn't touched yet.

[QUOTE=Exoter175;9267065]What you fail to understand is that no one gives a rats ass about YOUR hypothetical scenario because, frankly, it's ****ing stupid.

I thought we wouldn't know anything until the combine got here? What makes you so confident that we won't be sacrificing QB value?

QBs WILL BE ****ING GONE. I've already given you a list of teams, but you systematically pooh-poohed each one for some dumbshit reason in spite of the fact that this is a QB driven league. For example, you're telling me that Buffalo won't take a QB because Fitzpatrick got a Cassel contract and is actually pretty good???

Go **** yourself. You're presenting valid arguments, but not good arguments. There's a difference.

"The Chiefs should draft Te'o because if they don't the earth will explode" is a valid argument. It's not a good one, though, because the premise is stupid and nonsensical. That's exactly what you're giving me. You're saying the Chiefs should draft Te'o because:

-Te'o is head and shoulders above the other ILBs
-The QBs likely aren't good enough to warrant the pick
-Plenty of great franchise-caliber QBs like Wilson and Barkley will be available in the second round
-Te'o is a special kind of player that all great teams need in order to win games
-Fitzpatrick is pretty good and other shitty reasons why other teams won't draft QBs in the first round

All of these are stupid. They're wrong. And if they're not wrong, then they require proof from the combine, which you told me I needed to prove any of my arguments, but apparently you don't need to wait for the combine. All of YOUR hypotheticals are fine to use. Mine aren't, though.

How does my logic taste, pillowbitergot?

You're overpimping him to the point of calling him a #1 pick. That's an atrocious statement, and if you refuse to give that up as a good course of action for KC, then you're not toning it down enough.

MLBs are NOT #1 overall picks.

[QUOTE=Saccopoo;9267080]Then quit arguing with me sacrider. OH MY GOD GENIUS IDEA RIGHT? ERMAHGERD DRERFT GERNO

Uh, you're forgetting the part where a lot of the talking heads and mock drafters are starting to remove many of the QB picks, based solely on the information I've used here to play devils advocate.

You seem to think if I had the choice, I'd take Te'o over all others. If you truly think that, you are quite the Dummypants ROFL

You're right, only players like Jamarcus Russel can be #1 overall picks, you know, the last #1 pick from the AFC West. That one went over so well.

ILB are luxury picks. We can't afford to buy a CTS-V right now because we still can't afford our goddamned section 8 housing rent.

That depends on which generation CTS-V we choose, first gens are totally affordable.

PS I'm done trolling, my head actually asploded in this thread. Didn't think there were so many of you geno guys out there lol.

This is about how I see it. Teo is the best player in the draft.

Their minds are clogged worse than a Texaco gas station toilet due to the Chiefs not selecting a 1st rd QB since the 80's.

I don't really blame them, but at some point these guys need to stop holding their breathe! Its going to happen this year! (we hope) lol.

I can't wait until the Senior bowl and combine.
alot of these guys I haven't had a chance to watch at all - specificaly Teo.

But I've watched Jarvis Jones, Murray (if he comes out), Geno, a little of Bray, Milliner, Barret Jones (not that we need a center in the 1st), Womack, Ogletree (who is some ways I'd rather have than Teo)

I would like to see Barkley, Glennon, more of Bray, more of Geno

Agreed.

I still say we draft a punter #1 overall Exoter. We saw how valuable Colquitt was this year so I think we should let him walk and take the best punter on the board #1 overall. Agree?

Mike Golic on Mike & Mike just said he wouldn't draft a QBotf for his franchise QB. JHC I just lost all respect for him. WTF is wrong with him?

I didn't watch the game, so I'm looking at the stats and trying to figure out what about this game was so terrible. 16/24 for 197 and both of his team's TD's. 8.2 YPA, 0 INT's and a couple TD's isn't a bad game.

Meanwhile the rushing game provided 88 yards on 33 carries. They had 10 penalties for over 100 yards. The defense allowed over 500 yards.

Obviously this was something one had to watch the game to understand why this was such a failure on him as an individual. On the scorecard it looks like he's the only guy who showed up.

You never take a safety at #5 overall!!!!!!!!! NEVAR!!!!!

You're literally the only person in the world using this logic. Drafting a QB #1 is never "wasting a draft pick" even if the QB doesn't pan out; it's how 31 other goddamn teams in this league do business. It's how any legitimate team starts the rebuilding process. And the CBA means that you can draft a QB without the attendant risk of a bazillion dollar contract. There's literally no good reason to not draft a QB at #1 now, even if Luck and RGIII aren't available. YOU'RE GETTING THE MOST VALUABLE POSITION IN FOOTBALL AT A SUBSTANTIALLY LOWER PRICE. Using the #1 pick on a position that is 100x less valuable, like say ILB, makes no ****ing sense.

Of course, this will all be moot when Geno tears up the combine and all the so-called experts decide he's truly deserving of the top pick after all.

If you draft Manti Te'o at #1 and he becomes a HALL OF FAMER, this is an 8-win team.

If you draft Geno Smith at #1 and he's marginally better than Ryan Tannehill, this is an 8-win team.

Background: I have never been a QB or bust guy with the Chiefs first-round pick. I have debated quite intensely at times on this board about the guys available to the Chiefs at No. 1 (speaking out markedly against Sanchez and also Matthew "Front Mullet/China Doll/One above-average season" Stafford).

But this year? In this draft that doesn't offer any other true impact options at the Chiefs pick? I'm a "draft-a-QB" guy.

I think expecting a QB of high value to fall to No. 33 might be a bit optimistic.

The Jaguars are likely bringing in Tebow, but it wouldn't surprise to see them take a REAL QB at No. 2.

The Raiders need a QB, unless they're pinning their hopes on one game of Terrelle Pryor (in which he posted a 70.1 QB rating - as a Chiefs fan, you hope for this, right?)

The Browns took Brandon Weeden a year ago, but he stinks ( and was a later 1st round pick).

The Cardinals need a QB more than any team not called the Chiefs.

The Bills could draft a QB. Ryan Fitzpatrick is just OK, and he's not a spring chicken (He's 30).

The Jets need a QB, as Sanchez is terrible and Tebow is likely gone.

The Chargers have an old and declining Philip Rivers (31) and might be looking to backfill.

That's seven other teams that could logically draft a QB based on need/opportunity. It doesn't account for smart teams (like the Patriots) that would draft a QB if they feel it's the best talent there.

I don't think there are THAT many QBs of equal talent level that you can EXPECT one to fall to No. 33. Especially THE guy. Best thing for the Chiefs would be someone like Jarvis Jones just completely blowing up at the combine, enough to separate himself as the clear No. 1 pick (Joekel works here, too). That would make it a little easier to trade down and get the QB they want, and maybe nab a few extra picks.

But if trading down doesn't work, overdrafting a QB in this draft is just fine, IMO. The only way KC can really mess this up, IMO, is drafting Manti Te'o at No. 1. Talk about overdrafting... nothing screams "BUST" as a No. 1 pick like a guy who lacks positional value, isn't an impact player at that position, and is an average CFB athlete at his position.

If you're going to overdraft a player, overdraft an impact position player (QB, pass rusher, cornerback - though there are none that fit the bill this year). Don't overdraft a position of limited impact that can be easily filled in later rounds.

We'll see how Joekel grades out as draft day nears. He's a truly elite pass blocker, but his lack of ability in run blocking (where he is just OK, not great) separates him, IMO, from guys like Joe Thomas, Jonathan Ogden, Orlando Pace, etc.

Great post.

Redskins, seahawks, 49ers, and the vikings are all in the playoffs because of running the football. The threat of a run combined with world class speed at the receiver is what's whoring teams out in the league right now.

Are any of them going to make it to the Super Bowl? Not likely.

Stop panning for fools gold.

Exactly. Winning the Super Bowl without a great QB is harder now than it has been in my lifetime (which is actually only 30 years.

The only way one of those teams wins the Super Bowl this year is IF their young QB (RG3, Kaerpernick, Wilson) plays at an elite level. Those guys are all young, dynamic athletes, so it's possible (especially down the road).

no Geno in the first round. Not very realistic AT ALL, but....if you could get Geno in the second round--and it was guarenteed--who would you pick #1?[/QUOTE]

I'd like Geno a lot more at the top of round 2. There is some fantastic top end defensive talent. The Raiders are going to get Jarvis Jones I'm afraid. The Raiders and Jags should make out very well with the #2 and #3.

That 1st pick in round 2 is a 1st rounder value IMO...especially in what should be a pretty deep defensive draft. I also like some of the WR with late 1st round grades. We need talent at WR and 5th rounders is not the way to do that.

Jarvis Jones has spinal stenosis. It's more likely he, rather than Geno Smith, will fall to the 2nd round.

So did Earl Campbell..played with it his entire career.

If no Geno, then how could you not pick an OL?