I think relationships fail for a variety of reasons; it's too hard to pinpoint exactly which ones are more prevalent but I tend to agree with that assessment.

I think your instincts are what have gotten you into this pickle.

If things get ugly because of a failure to achieve, then obviously the marriage should not have been started in the first place. The sanctity of marriage may have been crushed into the ground and pissed on long ago, but there is still some shred of hope left for it. That hope lies within the few marriages that really can withstand anything...even then the marriage may not be one that should have been made, but at least it would be close enough to keep that last shred of hope and dignity alive.
As for the part about being disciplined, I can only agree to a small extent. If the marriage was a right marriage and founded on the right basis, then what discipline a person had before doesn't matter. For instance, if a person was extrodinarily lazy and was all of a sudden able to get up at three in the morning every day to work on a loading dock for 15 hours simply because that person was motivated enough by just being able to see one other person literally for one second a month, then there's one helluva good chance that that marriage was founded completely correctly.

I think thats a really optimistic way to look at it...

I can only say I personally am not interested in motivating somebody to get up every morning and get a job, then pushing that person to go to that job every day. That doesnt interest me at all and I suspect it doesnt interest most people. The other problem with that, is this mentality carries over into other areas of that person's life. For whatever reason if a person is unwilling to work and earn a living on their own, they arent going to handle a lot of the other necessary business in their life. Talk about baggage...

Sure there always exceptions, but I would prefer to stick with the example available to us and for that matter what most people in that situation typically manage to do. Hopefully by the time a person is ready to consider marriage or even a serious relationship, they have come to terms with the fact that they cannot sit on their ass all day and mooch off of their parents.

sh#t, didn't even occur to me to mooch off my parents.

:banghead:

D'oh! :)

I agree somewhat. For me, a dependant child was motivation to change my lifestyle. Some people just can't be motivated to past themselves.

Marriages fail because of the people involved, not the stresses life throw at them. You are either strong enough to handle life or you are not. That doesn't change with age, only the "stresses" do.

Good analysis to both of you, but I would have to say that ya gotta look at the reason for all of that. There's one common reason and it happens to the vast majority of marriages today: infatuation. It's the one thing that causes all failed marriages. We all know how it starts out...two people date for a while, think they really know each other and what it would be like to live together for so long, but they still don't have that special connection. They're still attracted to other people, they find out things about one anothers' "past life" that scare the living $3it outta them, and other signs of the foolish relationship. And FWIW, I hate the misconception that infatuations are always extremely shortlived, so I'm just gonna put this out there before we have unneeded posts that lead to it: an infatuation is defined as a foolish relationship and can last anywhere from 5 seconds to 500 years....

Exactly.

And to be frank, stress isn't origninal. Everyone has to pay bills, suffer the death of friends and family, temptation to cheat, and odds are at least one twisted parent.

The only difference is how extreme each catagory is...

My goal is to be the extreme twisted parent.

I think I'm half way home.

Most relationships that fail were originally based on infatuation and lust whereas solid relationships are dependant on something beyond liking your partner. That is certainly the basis of understanding why relationships fail, people do not have realistic understandings and expectations about what they are getting into and who they are getting into it with. Some people even have trouble understanding who they are and what they are all about, let alone someone else. All of these things contribute to failures in relationships. It takes a pair of really honest people to do it right, it's perfectly understandable to see why these things fail.

I'm six shades of twisted, I just don't feel any urge to be a parent.

But I'd make one helluva' twisted Uncle or Godfather... :)

Oh, if we're going to stick to talking about the specified relationship, then I'll tell you right now that there's a 78% chance that they won't even be going out once the two years is up...granted that they actually get together very often; otherwise, that would be reduced to a 49% chance, and even then I'm being optimistic for III's sake. I was just saying that conditions before marriage don't normally mean anything and that people should start their marriage at rock bottom more often.

Gotta disagree with you on this one.

I have never met anyone in a long term relationship who hasn't "met someone".

The one thing that gets me, is all the people that think that if you are truly in love with someone you can't have strong feelings for anyone else. That's bullshit. It's the strength to resist that temptation, because EVERYONE goes through it. It's when someone realizes that there current family is more important than banging the flavor of the week.

The real problem is appreciating what you have. You will ALWAYS be attracted to other people, that's human nature.

Man, I got 4 kids. Each one adding to the dementia. However, now I know who to pm if I need someone to wake up with a horse head in their bed.

Yep, the strength is in realizing that everything in life worth having must be worked for, including relationships. There is no fairy tail ending (although the more you appreciate what you have, the easier the job).

Oh, I'm not that kind of twisted.

My g/f has 4 kids, and when they lived here it was friggen bootcamp for 'em.

They weren't bad kids by any means, but they definitley took advantage of the fact that mom was single and working a lot.

The boy was her youngest, and the other 3 were girls, so arse whoop'ns were out of the equation. I might be off center, but I'm not hitting a pre-teen girl.

So there was "corner time."

Face in the corner, raise your arms the whole time. Your elbows drop below your shoulders it's another 5 minutes. Each time you have to go in the corner it's 5 minutes more than the last time.

You're being too lenient on your definitions and contexts.... ALL relationships that fail were originally based on infatuation and lust. Solid relationships are those that go into completely healthy marriages and are founded on love. I'm not talking about the little teeny-bopper definition of love, I'm talking about the real concept. Now, I'll admit that a lot of people find my definition too strong, but I never really understood how the strongest feeling can have a definition any weaker than what I give it. Basically, my definition splits everything up into what I call the laws of love: 1) you're not attracted to anyone but the person you're in love with--that covers both mentally and physically. 2) you would go through an eternity of torment just to see the person you love for a split-second. 3) you would do absolutely anything for that person without asking or wanting anything in return--a.k.a. "love has no conditions". 4) you would go through the worst pain imaginable for a trillion years just to know for one second that the one you love is okay. /// There's still a lot that I'm leaving out, but those are the four that I can state without creating an essay.

I agree, I got married when I was 18 and we both grew up and we were different people than when we got married, I was married 13 years and the last few years I was unhappy and so was he (i think)
Put marriage off till you are grown and see who YOU are before bringing someone else into the picture.

Once you meet the person you love, there's no need to resist temptation because the temptation is gone. You don't have feelings for any other person but the one you love...it's as if you've gained so much strength to resist temptation that the temptation itself just gave up and went on to someone else.

Your "inexperience" is showing.

People who believe in your "law #1" are most likely to fail in a relationship when they realize they are human and sexually attracted to others.

"Oh, it must not be real love if Jenna Jameson can still give me a stiffy."

Haven't read the other "laws" yet, this one was enough of a bullshit call to remind me you are a teenager that doesn't know anything about life yet.

ROFL ROFL ROFL

Man, you are one dumb ass mofo.

So, still waiting for you story book wedding where you'll go riding in on "your favorite pony"?

For your own good, please stop believing this BS, otherwise you'll be dumping girlfriends/wives your entire life and rationalizing with the woody in your pants.

Or, grow together?

Age doesn't matter. Your personal responsibility is already defined by the time your 18 or 20.

Way to break Maslow's Pyramid...that's okay, I always hated Maslow anyway. :)

Depending on what type of "grown" you mean, I would say that I completely agree with you. I believe that self-actualization is needed to open one's eyes to so many facts, but even with that comes a couple of screwed up relationships...normally because one's eyes aren't completely open (metaphorically speaking, that is.)

Jesus christ this shit is fucking reeruned.

Self-actualization?
True Love?

Grow the fuck up and realize that ALL relationships only give you back what you put into it. This is teenage absurdity. You obviously know nothing about real relationships.

:(

Do not even attempt to battle me on this. I know for a fact that the first law is both possible and probable even with humans.

I don't beleive many marriages will last when you get married young for the same reason I put in my other post. :shake:

ROFL!!!!!!!!!
ROFL!!!!!!!!!
ROFL!!!!!!!!!

AND JUST HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN MARRIED?!?!?!?!

ROFL


This thread is funny again... but for completely different reasons than before.

I didn't have a problem with your post (trying to bring reality to the discussion). My problem was with Mr. CareBears belief in being the princess bride.

If you want to be in some piss-poor relationship that's based on infatuation and lust, then yes, you only get out what you put in. That is a fact of life, and so many people go for it because they have all lost sight of what love really is. They think that they can find it just because they went through all of the relationship stuff in highschool and college...they think that they can find it just because they're in the "real world"...that is why it's so rare to find love anymore and why people would just jump to the conclusion that it's human nature to be infatuatious and filled with lust.

I'm not reading all this drivel. Has this thread devolved into a 17 year old who is the youngest active member of the board explaining to everyone the inner workings of relationships? :)

Yes... again.

ROFL

That who I meant to read it, I knew you weren't throwing it at me, I was just getting your back on the subject. I fully agree :thumb:

And just how many relationships have you been in after puberty?

And what do you know of "the real world"?

... special thanks to Grandllama

HOLY CRAP!!!!!!!!

ROFL

Marriages don't have a good chance of lasting long no matter what age you are...doesn't really matter what time period you're from either.

I could have warned you all about this. Next, he'll be giving 20-year smokers advice on how to kick the habit...

Indeed.

Oh, forgot to mention that my "piss-poor relationship that's based on infatuation and lust" just ended up in me spending almost 7k on a new wedding ring for my wife because I just lust after her and have no love for her.

I'll guarantee you this, my relationship will last longer than ALL of yours combined.

Of course not if you expect it to be like a fucking hollywood teenage girl romance flick.

Moron.

Wow, you completely missed the point...:rolleyes:

I suppose I'll answer, but just promise to go back and get the point of that previous post, okay?

8, and enough.

I don't know when they go bad its not worth any amount of money to stay and suffer the rest of your life over, you only live once don't waste it cause of money.

Ahh, OK, my bad.

Spank me?!

Oh god dammit!!!!!!!!

I must not really love my wife cuz I'm on here flirtin' with a stranger!!!!

;)

ROFL so whatcha gonna buy me if I flirt back? :hmmm: ROFL

Damn!!!

You a player!!!

So if I told you you've had more relationships already than I have, who do you think has a better idea of keeping one solid?

Oh, and what is your point other than to talk shit about something you don't know about since 8 relationships after puberty (which is what, 3 years?) is OBVIOUSLY not a real relationship?

I agree and disagree. My first wife I was married 3 months. Too young, didn't understand the committment I was making, nor did she.

A couple of years later, I got married again. We just celebrated our 3rd wedding anniversary. It's going great.

ROFL

Let me ask the wife if I can hawk her XMas present and get back to u!

Going bad is one thing, and I don't expect anyone to be able to "fix" the other person or a relationship on their own. It's a two way street. But to expect a relationship to be perfect will end one quicker than anything else.

Please go back to "Reading and Comprehension"...it would take a lot fewer posts from both of us.

Anyway, love is not material, it is not conditional, and it doesn't take a ceremony with an official state license to make it exist. Also, I wasn't saying that you don't love your wife...you can call love whatever you want for whatever reasons you want. And about that last line, I'm going to point out my first post on this topic: "time does not matter. It is a misconception that infatuation is short-lived. An infatuation can last 5 seconds or 5 centuries."

Congratulations!

But here's a warning from chico, don't go in the girly thread cuz if you get a chub it means you don't really love her.

Yep I agree again there are no perfect relationships, If your trying to make it a perfect one there will be a lot of lying and deceit going on and no conversation about shit that really does bother you.

Does this make any sense

For clarification: No, I was merely stating a definition that I stated was always found to be "too extreme" by people. So unlurking is now trying to attack my definition of love...and it's not really getting anywhere because he refuses to remember what he's already read.

Man, this is comedy gold!!!!

:D

I can be infatuated with my wife my entire life, but not be in love with her?!?!

YOU ARE THE ONE THAT SAID MARRIAGES FAIL BASED ON INFATUATION AND NOT LOVE.

YOU ARE THE ONE THAT SAID LOVE MEANS NEVER BEING PHYSICALLY OR EMOTIONALLY AROUSED BY ANOTHER.

Don't talk shit about MY comprehension because you have no clue about the topic.

Makes a lot of sense to me.

Partners willing to work at a relationship to make each other happy is the true glue in my opinion.

I'm sorry, but you proved my point for me. Seriously, although it's less than one percent, there are those in their mid-teens that understand the committment just as there are those in their 50's and even 60's or 70's that still don't understand it (or probably just don't care about it).

Hmm, guess I didn't read your "first law of love" did I?

"1) you're not attracted to anyone but the person you're in love with--that covers both mentally and physically."

SO ARE YOU OR ARE YOU NOT SAYING THAT I DO NOT LOVE MY WIFE BECAUSE I APPRECIATE A BEAUTIFUL WOMAN'S BODY THAT IS NOT MY WIFE?!?!?!

Moron, the problem isn't that I didn't read your posts, it's that I did and took the time to point out your stupidity!!!

Oh, BTW, any married guys wanna find out if you really love your wife? Turn on TMC, Private Sex Club is on and it doesn't look bad for soft core!

;)

What the fuck IS your point beyond some mindless drivel about "idealized" love that you self-righteously proclaim is what relationships are all about?

Apparently you gleamed all of this knowledge from 8 failed attempts, huh?

EDIT:
Oh wait, now I get it. You are the 1% in their midteens that gets it but has yet to have a successfull relationship. I obviously don't get it even though I've been married longer than you've been having wet dreams.

Yes, all marriages that fail are based on infatuation, but not all marriages based on infatuation fail. Do I have to draw a picture for you? And the part about not being aroused by another means that you are physically/emotionally aroused by the one you love and ONLY that person...but that's part of my definition, which I've already stated many people think is "too extreme"; I'm not trying to change your mind about anything, remember that. Now, as for your actual question: Yes, a person can be infatuated with their spouse for their entire life. An infatuation is defined as a "foolish relationship" and it does not have any specified limit...when certain factors are put in, an infatuation can keep burning for centuries, and that normally means: until one person dies.

I'd like to apologize for all the poor people who have had to read this thread.

My son is at that whiny pre-teen stage and it is all I can do sometimes to not want to smack some sense into him. I should know better than to argue with immortal and smarter than me teenagers.

This has turned into a pissing match between myself (who really should know better) and a child.

Anyways, back to the point of the thread...

Roy, take all the advice you can get from your elders (like waiting), but most of all you need to realize that any relationship you have in life will take work and dedication from both parties.

That's my definition based on facts and experience. You have your own experience going for you, so you have your own definition to work with.

BTW, FWIW, I find this defensiveness rather interesting...

Do you even see how reeruned you are sounding?!

By YOUR definition, I do not love my wife and am in a "foolish relationship".

Get back to me in a decade with your successful relationship and then we'll talk.

Okay, I was bored so I read a couple posts... 78%? 49%? WTF is this? Where in the hell are we getting random percentages from? Rain Man should have your genitals cut off for blantant abuse of statistics.

Ahh yes, your VAST experience of EIGHT relationships in what, 3 years? Sounds like a very successful track record to me.

And I guess my "defensiveness" can be interesting to somebody that has just insulted me.

Next I guess I'll ask my 8 month old nephew on the strategies of aiming for the toilet when you're drunk.

In today's world? Yes, it makes perfect sense...a lot of lies and deceit would have to go into it. When two people figure out that it's about making one another happy without condition, then they'll be somewhat closer.

OK, I have to go have "foolish relations" with the woman I don't love now.

I'll check in later to see if there is any more wisdom from the teenage love doctor.

If it's a high chance, I give it a high percentile. If it's a moderate, I give it a moderate percentile. Think of it as a rough estimate.... :) :p

Don't worry, I think there's a 100% chance you're way over your head here. Think of it as a rough estimate.

Do you even realize how childish you're sounding?

I'm just offering a simple definition of how I see love. Just because my definition clashes with yours is no reason to do, well this whole converstaion. I have my opinions, and you have yours. I can respect that, but please keep in mind that I'm still going to mention my view as well as I know you'll mention yours right after.

Now as for my experience, it's a long story that I'm not going to go over, but it's basically that I had to open my eyes after 9 girls to see who had been there for over a decade.

Perhaps, but I guess we'll find out in two years...and I'll be sure to find a way to remember to bring this thread back up so we can find out for certain if need be.

You're getting married too?

Congrats! :toast:

Most women don't care about numbers or none of this junk.... they either like you or they don't, looking for rhyme, reason, or explaination often times will cause you enough brain damage that your head will explode.

My better half told me to tell you about
www.weddingchannel.com
SHE LOVES IT, and say's your significant other will too.
They send out emails saying stuff like "This is week 28 you should be doing such and such, or planning so and so."
You can
-compare wedding gowns, tux's
-prepare your budget
-manage guest list
-and more stuff than you can put in a few lines.


And trust me, our is comming up in Nov, i'm all too well fermiler with planing a wedding, this is my second time. :banghead:

1. Do act like a man. A hard core testosterone attitude will help you in selecting Mrs. right. The cream of the crop do not want some pussified guy who is just nice to them irregardless of what your mom might have told you. Women want a challenge which often times leads them to the bad boys.

2. Be different, telling her how much you want her like every other penis chasing her at the beginning only makes you like every one else. I got news for you, she already knows you want her just like every other guy with an once of testosterone if she is worth having. Be the guy she has to go after, be a challenge. I could spend a whole day on this subject but you get my drift.

3. Sex has got to be off the scale or forget going any further. Make sure a majority of the things that turn you on she likes too or you will wander later on.

4. Make sure you have a lot in common. Sex is very powerful but it will only take you so far.

5. Don't listen to what she says it doesn't mean shit. Watch what she does, that will tell you everything about who she is and how she will treat you.

6. Once you have found the special one get a preup. From a legal standpoint marriage is a contract. You would not enter into any other contract in life without having a written agreement, why should this be any different? The pain of being left with 33% of everything you ever worked for in your life (33% you, 33% her and 33% attorneys fees) along with paying a good chunk of everthing you earn for a long time to come and still having to chase the opportunity to know your own children should be an eye opener. If she really loves you having an mutual understanding of what your going into starting a family and living your life's together will not be an issue. If the prenup is an issue run for the hills unless she is totally rich and you are a bum.

7. Continue to be a challenge even after being married. Don't let her wear the pants and dictate the relationship or she will grow bored with you moving forward. Love her with all you have but still be the man and keep your sex life interesting. Women are very sexual, embrace that instead of being insecure and scolding her for revealing her naughty side. This will keep the sexual fire burning, trust me.

8. Last but certainly not least don't take a good woman's love for granted if you find it. Definitely let her know that how you feel about her and better yet show her. Don't change being what you are though, a man. This is a tricky one because many guys think they should turn over the reins and hand over the family jewels in an effort to show their undying love. I got news for ya pal, they don't want you to turn woosyfied and become their puppet. All this will do is cause them to lose interest and start looking for a real man somewhere else.

You can pay me later. This is the best advise anyone can ever give you take it to the bank. Better yet, notice how your buddies blow it by not following these basic things and make sure you do. Good luck.

OMG :eek: :shake: :rolleyes:

This should be interesting to read today when I get bored at work !

Wow. I have to call the spelling police on that one.

you fuggers took a perfectly good Dog Pile and turned it into something serious.

.....Right after Skinbra appeared.

Damn you...........Damn you all.

WOW...... I took 40 minuteswhile at work this morning to read this ?

Dammit III ..........

You basically got the same damn advise from the planeteers as you got from me. ( outside of the pun ) Most of these guys had a good laugh at your expense. Some of them gave some very good advise to you , which sounds all to familiar. :harumph: