Pretty much everybody here has acknowledged that Tyreek is a great WR.

Not everybody continues to pine for him though. Just dumb.

That's not true. Lots here still bash him. Every now and then you have to swoop in and be a contrarian, this is one of those times. Just Dumb.

There are absolutely people here that cannot deal with the fact that he's gone. In fact, there's more of THEM than there are people that are glad he's gone.

#facts

It's just rationalizing/coping. Just like saying Mahomes forced the ball to Hill in the AFCCG when he didn't. I wish he did, we would have won.

#factsyourself

Not really. The people who bump this thread and other Tyreek threads and talk about Tyreek the most aren't even the ones who wanted him back. There's always a need to rationalize the trade for them.

Exactly. There are a handful of people on both sides of the argument that are simply coping.

The vast majority of people here are much more middle of the road in their opinions.

And if he was a Chief right now with only 2 TDs, it would be cries of "ever since that AFCCG play before halftime, he can hardly find the end zone, that won't cut it in the playoffs! He can rack up yards, but he's making $30 million FFS!"

There are people that simply cannot rationalize the trade, too.

Again, the vast majority don't have any issues - they realize that losing him was a big deal but the also realize that the team may have benefited from the trade.

Then you have a very vocal group, on both sides, that either rationalize everything away as if the trade was a no-brianer or simply refuse to accept that he's gone.

Oh oh...NOW you did it!!! STOP PINING over Tyreek. DAMMIT!!!:rolleyes:

You must have missed my reply to him.

You know, the one that starts with "exactly."

Your fault for interrupting a man's morning cry.

I'm not talking only about you. You just provided a common talking point. You know your stuff most of the time. I have too much respect for you to go back and forth in a negative way.

You, on the other hand, are just a troll mod. So be you and do your thing!

The best thing about him is that you can just ignore his posts cause he never posts any opinions of his own.

Beta.

Fair enough. My apologies.

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/exnY8mKcVb6I8" width="480" height="350" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/troll-meme-exnY8mKcVb6I8">via GIPHY</a></p>

If you type it two more times MeatPeeker will show up

The Bengals rushed 3 with a spy for the whole second half - which seems to be Mahomes' kryptonite.

The Bills did the same thing at the end of the game this year and it worked. Teams seem to save this for when they really need it.

I almost feel like they let Mahomes run for a few first downs early in the game so he starts looking for that later in the game when everyone's covered. Then the spy comes barreling at him anytime he gets out of the pocket. So he can't run, and also doesn't have much time to look downfield.

I'm sure Reid and Co are working on solutions.

This is the most accurate "what if" post in the history of CP.

Tyreek Hill is on pace to break the record for most receiving yards in a season without Patrick

Patrick Mahomes is on pace to break the record for most passing yards in a season without Tyreek

Both have legit cases to be MVP

It’s a QB award at this point. Tyreek would have to cure cancer to have a chance. Plus remember the media is not exactly pro Tyreek after those issues with his ex. Just can’t see any way he wins it.

More likely that Tua wins it. Their losses have happened with Tyreek on the field while Tua was on the bench with injury.

Very true. Tua will win it before Tyreek.

Like I posted earlier in this thread, this trade was a WIN_WIN for both teams. :thumb:

I think he was flustered when EB lit into a future hall of famer for making one mistake. EB lost the AFC Champ game

"This trade gonna expose some people"

Well...

Didn't expose Mahomes.

Didn't expose Tyreek.

Didn't expose Tua.

And the Chargers are still Chargering.

It exposed him as the douche canoe we’ve always thought he was.

But the Chargers have managed to squeak out some razor thin victories. Super lucky against Cleveland, Denver, & Atlanta. Really wish they lost the Cleveland & Atlanta games.

He did it again in an interview right after yesterday’s game:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/p1PeWbSHMxo" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It must have exposed Allen's lower extremities because he's hurt, again.

I thought he hurt his chances at the Hof when he left. Proving me wrong so far. For the life of me, I don't know why they don't run the defenses they do against the chiefs on the dolphins. I would just double coverage him and waddle all game. Make them beat you running it or throwing to someone else.

For some reason teams aren't giving them their best like we see each week.

I mean, he's still one of the best in the league. THAT wasn't going to change. Hill was going to be good regardless of where he went, as long as he stayed healthy.

Teams apparently forget all about the cover 2 shell concept in the offseason.

Because it's damn near impossible to double two guys with that kind of speed who both play outside. You can't really shade either.

Ultimately Waddle and Hill are better complements for defeating a 2-high shell concept than Hill and Kelce are.

They can just challenge too much of the field. Kelce may be murderously difficult to cover within 15-20 yards, but he's not a real threat 30+ downfield.

Both Waddle and Hill are. You just can't commit that hard to them because they put too much of the field at risk.

Nah - they're still doing it and doing it well. I mean there's a reason scoring is down.

But the idea that you could just go into a cover 2 shell and wipe out a HoF talent was silly all year last year. It's silly now. You just have to bring more of the field into the fight.

I mean if you figure a field is roughly 50 yards wide and Hill/Waddle present credible threats 60 yards deep, you've got 3,000 square yards of field you've gotta cover (about 6 tenths of an acre). Double all you want, shell all you want - you just can't do it - it's too damn much ground to cover. And if you commit 4 guys trying to, you're going to leave yourself exposed in a bad way underneath and Gisecki is no slouch.

The Chiefs just didn't offer that level of threat to that much of the field last year.

So the key to this is actually WADDLE, not Hill? I mean, obviously Hill is a huge piece but the thing we didn't have that the Fins do is Waddle.

Love Tyreek but he needs to get with a public speaking coach.

Now I know why we never put a camera in his face when he was in KC...

Both, yes.

One is making these things possible for the other. Neither guy would be having nearly this level of success without the other guy, IMO.

(Which was why I wanted to add more speed, not more size, to attack the Cover 2 last offseason).

Admittedly, it's just my working theory and one I've had for a bit now. So I'm biased here. But that's definitely the world as I see it and were I trying to put Hill to his highest and best use, I'd be hard pressed to find a complementary offensive weapon I'd prefer than Waddle. He's such a dangerous downfield threat.

Unfortunately, we're never really in a position to get a guy like Waddle. :(

Nope - and now we don't have Hill anymore.

At this point it's just not a model we should be trying to replicate (unfortunately).

We've chosen our course...

Guys like Waddle come from the 2nd round or later all the time.

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/VtwHD2fcAmhJ6" width="480" height="192" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/lol-fallontonight-justin-long-VtwHD2fcAmhJ6">via GIPHY</a></p>

True, but that’s also because we have Reid/Mahomes. I would rather go without a Waddle type WR than Reid/Mahomes.

Chiefs never had a ‘Waddle’ on the other side of the field. If they did, we would have never seen that Cover 2 Defense. And even if we did, it wouldn’t have been near as effective.

Hill’s career numbers are in for a nice boost playing opposite Waddle. Of course, he may not win as much. But I’m not sure he cares about that anymore. He established himself as elite, won a Super Bowl, got his money, now he’s probably focusing on legacy and HOF status.

I don’t hold it against him, though. It is what it is. Win win trade for both sides. We’re a better overall team and will continue to get better. Miami is a better team than before and he’ll probably get to put up better numbers cause Miami will force feed him the ball.

He can be the ‘star’ there. He would have always been second or third fiddle here to Pat and probably Kelce as well.

No they didn't. It's just that they have a good WR2. So teams can double him or just sit up top like they did with us. That's why we were excited to pair Juju with him.

They should spend the money on OL & Defense. The team had problems in those areas even when Tyreek was involved. Need a stronger OL with a stronger run game and stronger pass protection. That should be top priority.

According to DJ, Juju isn't the complement he's talking about though. Juju and Waddle are two completely different players with different skills sets and roles.

But I get the argument, yes.

I think Waddle let's you do literally anything you want to do on offense cause of his speed and because he's a better overall WR than Juju. But yeah, teams still wouldn't be able to play the same defense last year if we had Juju.

DJ literally said that the ability to stretch the field BEYOND 30 yards is what Waddle and Hill bring.

Juju doesn't bring that so I'm failing to see where Juju is the equivalent of Waddle, he just doesn't have the tools.

Remember last year when there was all the draft rumors about the Chiefs wanting to trade up for Ruggs or whoever while the still had Tyreek?

Andy knew what was up.

It’s hard to fix the Oline, no matter who you get they still won’t be able to stop the top pass rushers in the league, it will take a HOFer like Orlando Pace or Willie Roaf to do it, it’s a bitch.

Sure they would. They'd treat him exactly like they treated Pringle.

He's not a man-beater. He's not a downfield threat that REQUIRES you dedicate safety help to him. He's an intermediate guy that will let you shade to provide help defense in the same way teams shaded the Hill/Kelce combo.

Waddle is a boundary player who can obliterate man coverage anywhere on the field. That's a MUCH different player than JJSS and he must be treated differently.

As I said before we even traded Hill, MVS is the kind of guy that I think would've opened things up a bit vs. 2-high shells more than JJSS would've. That was why I just didn't have much interest in JJSS when it looked like Hill was going to get extended.

Good point.

Conventional wisdom was "what do they need Ruggs for, they have Hill!"

I wonder if he wasn't seeing the world as I was, a couple years before I was. Would make sense - guy knows more about the game than I do...

Toney could make things interesting.

The pass protection was quite good last year - it just didn't matter much in opening up the downfield passing game.

I just think the offense lacked overall team speed.

I'd be fascinated to see what a Toney/Hardman long-term duo could accomplish, but it seems pretty unlikely given the associated costs of keeping Hardman.

I just want to see what level of talent is required to make this sort of thing work. Do you need a HoF and Pro Bowl talent to pull it off and still eviscerate a Cover 2 shell? Can you do it with two guys who are incredibly fast but limited? One Pro Bowl guy and a fast/limited guy?

What's the threshhold level of talent required for the philosophy to work? Can you pull it off with a Jackson/Maclin 2.0 sort of combo. If so...eh, we could luck into a Maclin and with strong development from Toney end up with a Jackson.

I don't know. WR philosophy has fascinated the hell out of me ever since the market went completely haywire. Doubly so when the Chiefs zagged in response.

Non-existent run game. Rest of the league is happy to drop 8 guys into coverage and dare KC to run it, knowing that KC will probably gain 0-2 yards the vast majority of the time.

They'll drop 8 guys into coverage anyway if KC will only gain 4-5 yards and the alternative is 25.

The answer wasn't to try to force safeties upfield - that just wasn't going to happen with Hill on the field. It was to force them laterally. And still deeper. To force them to cover MORE ground behind and around them.

The idea that teams were EVER going to choose death by 1,000 papercuts over letting Mahomes carve them apart is simply a non-starter, IMO. Bend but don't break is the very foundation of modern NFL defenses. It's what they'll take every time because ultimately it takes one bad run or one holding call to blow it all apart.

It's just not something I see as being a realistic choice - they won't EVER pick getting beat deep over getting beat by a RB.

Wish we still had someone with the deep play ability of Reek. Mahomes to Hill, even in 4th and forever felt almost automatic. We don’t have anything close to that now.

They need a run game way more than they need Tyreek. That was the case last year too, even with Tyreek on the roster.

I knew his skill set would travel well. He is 1of 1 and would improve any team he played for. He's making his QB look very good. He walked into a perfect storm in Miami, with Waddle, and is doing even better than I thought.

how cute LMAO

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Tua Tagovailoa is no on pace for:<br>4,379 yards<br>35 touchdowns<br>6 interceptions<br>Is this enough for MVP? <a href="https://t.co/PNtETohWMH">pic.twitter.com/PNtETohWMH</a></p>&mdash; Dolphins Nation (@Ph1nsNation) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ph1nsNation/status/1592587396339871744?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 15, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Tyreek would deserve MVP far more than him

they're also using W-L to prop up Tua now

the only good team he's beaten was baltimore

he did nothing against buffalo

miami's best use to us now is beating buffalo once more, then they can **** off and die

you serve mahomes

They go on the road against 49ers pretty soon. Won’t be surprised if Tua struggles against that Niners defense. It’s not exactly the shitty defense of Lions or Bears that he torched recently. If he does struggle against the Niners, that would be an interesting data point in the comparison with Mahomes after Patrick torched the Niners in their stadium for 40+ points & 400+ yards.

I'd rather Bills beat them and that's our match up, it's a better one for us imo.

They effectively have 2 Tyreek Hill's out there, when you take into account Waddle. It may be the best WR pairing ever.

You say this yet the Chiefs lead the NFL by FAR in 3rd and long conversion percentage

Eh, Torry Holt/Isaac Bruce, Randy Moss/Cris Carter, Marvin Harrison/Reggie Wayne, etc.

I think Waddle's gotta do it for a bit longer before we can even think about putting that duo up there with the greats.

Not if Mahomes keeps playing like this. The biggest argument for Mahomes would be KC having a better record and Mahomes doing it without Hill which most “experts” said would hurt his numbers.

Fastest ever? Maybe. Best ever? Nope. The Vikings once had both Cris Carter and Randy Moss at the same time. That’s possibly the best pairing of all time.

Beat me to it.

Oh, oh, I know what to say here! This is what we've been training for!

*clears throat*

Tua is a product of the skill and weapons around him. Put him on other teams and he wouldn't be as good.

Exactly.

Coming into this season, they were still wondering if they needed to get rid of him. Instead they decided to go all-in on surrounding him with superior talent.

It's working so far but let's see Tua do what Mahomes has done without Hill before we crown him.

That's not really that far removed from Alex Smiths 2017 campaign, and I don't remember anyone putting the MVP on Alex in week 10.

If this is all Tua ends up with, assuming he doesn't miss anymore games, it shouldn't be close. Mahomes will have blown the doors off that stat line.

With MVP being the stat award that it is, there's just no way that Tua puts up the numbers that Patrick Mahomes is headed for this year.

By week 10 in the 2017 season, Alex Smith had 18 TDs and only 1 INT. He was absolutely an MVP candidate at that point. Unfortunately, that week started our four-game losing streak that killed any chances of him winning.

Hopefully Tua has a similar losing streak.

Would be nice.

I'd also like to note that it was unfortunate for Alex Smith that we started losing. Fortunate for Chiefs fans in general. If he doesn't hit that rough patch and we don't lose in spectacular fashion to the Titans in the Wild Card Round, we may not move to Mahomes in 2018.