I agree, but im tired of holding it in.

Again, it's the elephant in the room right now. It's time to stop ignoring it.

"The protection is why he's jumpy!!"

Did you see the absolute SHOT that Kyler Murray took this week? Some guy came off the edge just completely untouched and hit Murray so hard directly through the back of him that his helmet flew off and rolled 10 yards. It was a 90s era QB demolition.

2 plays later he stood in against pressure and threw an absolute dime to McBride to keep the drive going.

Guys, QBs get hit and oftentimes they get hit pretty damn hard. I've NEVER seen Mahomes take the kind of shot Murray took there. And Murray shook it off.

Mahomes is gonna get hit some. We need to accept that. So does he.

He left 15 points on the field yesterday. At least. And yes, he was responsible for one very good play to Perine (and had another couple solid ones in there as well) but like I said, that's just the NFL game now. If your QB can't make a handful of those plays every game, your QB needs to be replaced.

What is presently separating the good from the great isn't the ability to make those plays off script. What it is right now is the willingness to stand in there and rip the ball into tight windows that open up in these zone concepts that everyone's running.

Mahomes wasn't doing that yesterday. He was tentative from the opening snap. Folks wanna blame Kingsley but Mahomes was tentative on the first couple drives when Morris was in there as well.

He just wasn't sharp. It was a step backwards from what we've seen the last couple of weeks.

But the lights are gonna be bright against Buffalo next week and I'm fairly confident he'll be just fine.

But you know what turned Aaron Rodgers into this version of him? A decade of people saying everything that went wrong was someone else's fault. If you want to avoid that sort of thing, when games like yesterday happen, you HAVE to be willing to tell your guy - as great as he is - that he was bad.

Because yesterday Mahomes was bad.

I guess I just don't understand how this solves anything.

Alright cool, Mahomes has sucked, we've identified the problem. ...now what?

Does Andy need to yell at Mahomes more, or someone needs to shove him on the sideline to wake him up? Will the coaching staff read this thread and print it off for Mahomes to read to get his mojo back?

Idk, maybe some of you guys need to shout into the void, which is fine. I just don't see what this solves. Verbally ripping Mahomes a new asshole on a Chiefs board contributes 0% to him getting better.

What does any conversation ever had on this board 'solve'?

If "this dialogue needs to fundamentally alter the direction of the Chiefs" is your metric for viable posting, I think you're probably doing it wrong...

I mean you can post whatever you want, I'm not a moderator lol. It mostly confuses me.

Like the thought of "I'm tired of holding it in! I need to let the world know the cold hard truth!"

Like if it's just blowing some steam i guess thats fine. I personally just don't get it, but whatever works for you guys.

?

"I'm holding it in..." as in, the conversation has gone long enough with out some talk about what needs remedied.

It's a football forum. We're here to talk about football. No one is under the assumption that our conversation here will change anything at 1 Arrowhead dr.

And you know what? This probably IS the conversation they're having at practice.

You think the Chiefs, Reid and Mahomes aren't aware of it?

If WE'RE talking about it, you can bet your ass they've BEEN talking about it.

So we can see it, and they can talk about it....but we can't talk about it on the internet? C'mon now.

That missed throw to the Worthy at the back of the end zone just gives me serious Aaron Rodgers vibes.

Sorry that every one of your receivers isn't DeVonta Adams. Quit trying to mind-meld everyone like they're Travis Kelce and just put the damn ball on him like you used to do. Aaron Rodgers would have Worthy traded for that shit.

That missed throw to Worthy isn't a QB who can't hit the broadside of a barn. It's a QB who expected his receiver to turn back inside to the open spot on the field. It's overthinking. Just put the damn ball on him.

Oh I don't mean how he plays.

I mean how he conducts himself. That strange aloofness.

I don't think Mahomes is likely to do that - but I wouldn't have expected it from Rodgers either. And ultimately, what's gonna happen in a couple years when "His boys" aren't on the team anymore?

Or if simply being good makes things hard for us. Because man, I looked at that Lions offense yesterday (built in large part on high draft picks from bad seasons) and just thought "damn - are we better than them ANYWHERE apart from QB?"

It's human nature at some point for PM to start asking similar questions and getting pretty riled up about the answers. I mean how can he NOT see Goff with his anchor OTs, dynamic RB, excellent young TE and 2 damn dangerous WRs and thing "man...that sure looks nice..."

And when he things "why should Goff have that but I shouldn't when I'm a better player than he is..." well that's how disgruntled QBs happen.

This guy is so damn great. And he's so INSANELY likeable. It would just be soul-crushing to see some strange ending here. But the way that's going to happen is if he has everyone in his ear telling him that he was great yesterday when he very clearly wasn't.

I don't think Mahomes will come anywhere close to Rodgers in terms of attitude or how he carries himself.

I was speaking more on Rodger's mentality of, "Mind meld with me like Adams or you're not doing it right".

Rodgers had Mike Williams traded because he wasn't mind melding.

Sometimes you just gotta **** off with the super advanced play, and just put the damn ball on the guy.

I feel like this year there's been a lot of, "I know the route calls for you to go outside, but i wanted you to come back inside", even though outside woulda worked fine if you just threw it.

Rodgers does that shit due to his elite level of understanding. Mahomes is at that elite level too. But sometimes you can't mind meld everyone, and you have to just be willing to sling it in there even if it isn't the perfect spot, or exactly where you want the receiver to be.

I feel like for the past 2-seasons Mahomes has been at this elite level of reading defenses, so much so that at times he comes off reads too quickly, or completely rules routes out prior to the snap rather than reading them in motion. Hence why we come back and say, "he was wide open and Mahomes didn't even look his way"

And unless you have a vintage Dhop or Adams etc, it's not realistic to ask that of your receivers all the time.

The throw to Kelce where he missed high. He overthought it. He said he thought a S was coming in.

The missed throw to Worthy at the back of the endzone.....there's examples of this every game. Just overthinking shit.

Excellent point.

Here's what I will say.

Mahomes definitely has had 2 back to back bad years, but I don't think Receievers being unable to "mind-meld" with Mahomes immediately is the big reason why he's missing receivers.

If I'm going purely based off memory, one of Mahomes favorite receivers in the 2018-2020 era was DRob.

DRob. Of all people. Was actually a reliable deep threat and decent receiver for us. Are we really going to assume DRob has this "higher level" understanding of defenses like Kelce does?

Mahomes just hasn't been playing free at all the last 2 years. He won't stand in there and sling it with confidence. He's definitely overthinking it, but I don't think it's because of an insistence on "mind-meld". One thing for sure, we need to get a better solution at LT in the offseason. The interior OL, for all the talent there, has also given up tons of pressure, and Mahomes himself is holding on to the ball way too long and running from pressure that isn't there.

He can turn it back on, we've seen it. But I'd call it a case of the yips and lack of confidence rather than an imperialistic "you better read my mind or I won't throw to you"

Right. But in your own words, a middle range QB is far different than ****ing sucks.

Middle range QB gets us to 9-0. Hell, Alex got us to these peaks a few times in his career with nearly identical play.

“****ing sucks” is the type of online hyperbole that makes sports Twitter unusable right now. We’ve had QB’s like that. That’s Palko, that’s Cassel, that’s Danny Dimes today.

I whole-heartedly agree with you Tox.

If you listen to the pressers, Mahomes has mentioned whatever it takes to win. Doesn’t matter to him what he does as long as he wins.

I think it’s a culmination of things. The INT’s piling up, having a great defense the last 2 years, not putting that defense in a bad place like he did in Vegas.

They’ve changed the identity due to personnel. But it still bothers me that he’s being more conservative.

In camp Nagy and Andy both pushed Patrick to throw it deep. I think losing Hollywood Brown and Rashee Rice has played a major part in this. Seems like he’s having to for a relationship with key guys like Hopkins and Worthy on the fly.

Sure. You're right. Maybe, "He sucks RN", is too much. But the point im driving home is that he's not playing to an MVP level, he's not playing to HIS level, and it's affecting the offensive performance.

100% agreed.

Drob is a great example and im glad you brought him up, because i had him in my mind when i made my posts.

No one thinks Drob and a young Mahomes were mind melding. Mahomes was letting that shit rip. That's what im talking about.


I don't think he has the yips nor do i think he lacks confidence. I think he's at such an advanced level that it's taking from his instincts. The game has slowed down for him so much that he's no longer relying on his talent, but often times OVERTHINKING things when a high velocity throw in the moment is all he really needed.

He has admitted that in his younger days he couldnt read a defense and he was just slinging it. Pure talent.

Now, he has such an advanced understanding that he's litterally dismissing routes based off of pre-reads and not allowing the play to develop; sometimes the defense disguises well, or sometimes the defense just flat out blows a coverage.

He thinks he sees a S about to break on Kelce so he throws it high, when all he really needed to do was peg him between the numbers.

Mahomes is in that awkward stage of elite football IQ and just loosely wheelin' and dealin'.

I think that what we are witnessing are those growing pains and his BEST seasons are still ahead of us.

But in the mean time, this is what we're getting. It's not great. But maybe necessary.

But lets stop blaming protections, schemes and receivers and acknowlede it for what it is.

KC Commection will be along tp mention QBR 100 times

I honestly agree with all of this except the protection part. I will hold firm on that. I need to find the stats but Mahomes has been hurried and beat to hell the last 2 years.

On the 2nd one, why did worthy curl back?

I don't know what it is, but he's been bad.

I assume he noticed Pat rolling to his right and wanted to work toward the sideline with him.

Get annoyed by it all you want. They're not mutually exclusive concepts. Worthy has struggled multiple times with basics like footwork and actually catching the ball when it does hit him in the hands.

Pat plays his best when he's comfortable in the pocket. The running around stuff has to come later, not be used as a crutch.

Look at that first video how terrible his mechanics are. Pump fake, then just breaks down and has to reset.

It's the LT spot, but it's all a cascade. Not everything is gonna work for you man, you gotta hang in there.

It’s a combination of Mahomes’ having a case of ‘happy feet’ due to disgusting pass protection and always under duress with another year of having subpar wide receivers struggling to get open. It’s going to be another year imitating the Alex Smith years of dink-and-dunk offense and relying on our defense to keep the opponent’s score low enough to win games.

Screw that. He needs to keep heaving it to Worthy. He’s tried a deep ball to him at least once a game and the good news is that he’s not giving up. They’ll eventually figure it out.

I also think we can effectively put to bed the "Training camp doesn't matter" stuff. They went thru camp with this group then immediately lost their two WR's, then lost another one who knows what to do.

It just isn't gonna be a well oiled machine like that quick.

Comparing this kid to Mecole as a rookie is just so bad. It’s not anywhere near the same.

Mecole had Tyreek, Sammy, prime Kelce, Conley and even Robinson playing in front of him.

A ton of Mecole’s success as a rookie was Tyreek dragging multiple DB’s leaving him open vs CB3’s and CB4’s.

Worthy doesn’t have that luxury. Every damn WR in front of him got hurt. He’s been thrown out there to be WR2. Yesterday he was counted on so much bc Surtain was on Hopkins. And the kid was open for 2 TD’s that the QB missed.

I wasn’t a big Worthy fan during the draft process but watching this kid get open every game and have good ball tracking ability is wild. He’s gonna be really good. He’s still figuring shit out.

And stop comparing Rice to this kid. They don’t play the same way. I mean good God do I need to bump the threads last year of people saying continuously saying that Rice is only doing screens? Bc that was 90% of his usage for most of last year.

The flashes are there every week.

Some would even say the play is "Putrid" at times :)

Mecole had Tyreek, Sammy, prime Kelce, Conley and even Robinson playing in front of him.

This isn't the endorsement you seem to think it is. Mecole had over 500 yards from scrimmage, 6 TDs, and made the pro bowl as a punt returner his rookie season. I quite frankly don't understand why folks get so ass hurt when Worthy is compared to Hardman. They ARE the same as rookies. Athletes with world class speed that need time to fully develop as WRs but can produce as deep threats/gimmicks as they learn. The problem with Hardman is he never developed at the NFL level. No one is saying Worthy will follow the same development curve, which is non-existent. They're just pretty ****ing similar as rookies.

It's the same shit as last year, but a different reason I guess. "He doesn't trust the WR"s" to now "he doesn't trust the OL"

Well **** guys....I dunno what to tell you then.

It's not even the scramble drill shit here. It's the fact that he even turned it into a scramble drill.

I'll get flamed for it.....but everything just looks slow. Reading the defense, being confused. Nothing is within structure. It's snap it, hang on to it, run around and hope someone gets open.

How about hit your back foot there and put it on your TE at the goal line when he turns around...Edit: I was wrong he's not open, it's Kelce there on the drag. It's first and goal at the 10, take the dump off an dmove on.

Yeah I'm hitting that point with Mahomes where I'm like Dude just sling it. No one will judge you for it. You're Patrick f'ing Mahomes.

He was getting judged for fluke batted ball interceptions on this very forum just a month ago. Whenever he starts throwing picks (whether or not there his fault), he tends to go into Alex mode.

He won a Super Bowl by doing this last season, so I can’t blame him for that favoring that response with our current defense.

Yeah Mahomes has been off but I really don't think Worthy is blameless. His hands haven't been great, his footwork suspect and for all the talk of how open he is, he's really not beating his man like a drum every snap, from what I can see.

He is a project, he absolutely looks like one. As a receiver actually gaining yards he's really offered next to nothing. He's been one fantastic deep ball and a lot of pretty decoys.

And without Rice, Brown and with putrid play at LT it's just going to be another slog. Injuries suck, what can you do?

He was bad yesterday. The only thing I’ll add is that he still stood tall and delivered a game winning ball to DHop with Engage 8 coming in hot from the Broncos D.

Judging from how opposing QB’s have handled Spags’ blitzing this year, I’m confident that only Burrow and Baker make that throw from the QB’s we’ve faced, and I’d gamble only <10 QB’s in the NFL stand and deliver that throw in that situation.

Patrick, for all his warts this year, has still delivered those throws to give us the win. I’m confident that play results in a punt if Alex is under center, and I’ll start to get concerned if Patrick starts biffing those game swinging plays like he did on and off in 2021 (culminating in perhaps his worst two chokes of the year to end regulation in the first AFCCG against the Bengals).

I agree with you 1,000 percent.

I think it really illustrates how little importance training camp means.

Coaches thought Kingsley was better than Morris.

Coaches thought Steele would be good.

Everyone raving about WRs last year...and this year.

Kelce obvious wasn't in game shape even after camp.

Even after camp and "getting into football shape" we still had tons of injuries.

In game reps and how a player performs when the lights come on matter waaaaaaaaaay more than anything that happens in training camp. We always, always take too much away from training camp.

Oh shut the **** up.

Coaches thought Steele was better than the other RBs who didn't make it, and they were dealing with CEH's illness/PTSD. Tell me, under your glorious plan of no training camp because it doesn't mean shit, how are dudes supposed to get a shot at making it in the NFL? Do guys like Steele who were impressive in offseason workouts just never get a chance? So how else do you find guys who can play or get coached up into players who can play?

"Everyone". **** off. People didn't say they sucked, but they were pretty pumped about Rice plus Hollywood, and they figured Worthy could work in there on gadget stuff and get some big plays. They said the WRs were improved, which they were until the top two guys got hurt.

You're clueless about Kelce's shit. Not a single fan knows why he wasn't effective to start the year, but that's between him and the coaches.

And after getting into football shape, the "tons of injuries" we had were Hollywood (who is kind of made of glass anyway) and a couple defensive backs. We were a ton healthier than most teams to start the year, and if it weren't for Mahomes blowing out his own receiver's knee, we'd probably still be saying we're doing great as far as injuries go.

If I find a magic lamp and ask the genie to send you to another dimension where you run the NFL, do you promise to report back to us what an epic shit show it is?

My God Patrick wtf. 4 wide open TD’s missed on Sunday. How could he have missed Hopkins here? Good Lord.

I get the LT wasn’t good but fire that sumbitch in there man.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mahomes actually misses an open Hopkins. I think the DT on Thuney starting clear made him change direction. Kelce would score a TD in a couple plays. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChiefsKingdom?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#ChiefsKingdom</a> <a href="https://t.co/UKUCiCtiX9">pic.twitter.com/UKUCiCtiX9</a></p>&mdash; Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jacobs71/status/1856151102237868207?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 12, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Just picking up and throwing in WR's, or other players, doesn't exactly work.

Maybe you should pull for the Bengals. They seem to get off to great starts with your formula.

Oh hey look. Worthy with an excellent route to get open and the QB just misses him again.

How many times are we gonna show Worthy getting open and the QB missing him before we admit there’s a QB problem?

All the “”Worthy regressing” talk is misinformed. He’s open. Every. Single. Game.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">A shaky LT brought back the shaky pocket presence from 15<br><br>Once he recognizes blitz &amp; man coverage, he should feel a chance for Worthy breaking open over the middle<br><br>Big-play potential if Worthy&#39;s hit in rhythm here, instead an off-balance throw to a covered Kelce <a href="https://t.co/a9beX1ucIb">pic.twitter.com/a9beX1ucIb</a></p>&mdash; Ron Kopp Jr. (@Ron_Kopp) <a href="https://twitter.com/Ron_Kopp/status/1856193338287743193?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 12, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Might be fair to say that Worthy's route was too slow to develop there. Not sure if that was design or execution or what, but Worthy was way late to even get into that route.

That was one of those Skyy Moore "look at the separation!!!" routes where I think the issue was timing. It's possible that Worthy's entire purpose there was to A) draw coverage out of the middle of the field and then B) make him self available as part of a scramble drill that simply never materialized.

I think there's been quite a bit of really bad analysis of this game, to be honest. Even some of the conclusions that agree with me have relied on really tenuous logic.

That one is rough.

Based on the flat footed LB and S drifting backward, Pat should have anticipated Hopkins clearing and coming open. He appears to be looking right at that bunch.

I have to assume he was actually peeking at the pass rush. Or he figured the outside CB would drop into coverage and undercut Hopkins’ route..? Idk. That’s what I would assume given how the LB and S react post-snap.

Even if that’s the case, Pat has the arm to rifle a throw in there that only Hop could catch.

Oh, I see there was an end zone view on that video as well..

He never even looked at Hopkins. He was locked in on Kelce.

Obviously I’m just guessing but I bet he knew about the TD record and tried force feeding it to Kelce there.

Good catch.

As soon as he sees the DB get underneath the rub and stay in Kelce's pocket, he tucks and runs.

1 read and jet - don't love seeing that.

It's been a problem the last 2 years. He just leaves so quick, I don't care for it.

I am fine with Patrick being cautious and not taking big hits to win regular season games. Especially when we're winning anyway. Let other QBs be heroes and be beat to shit come playoff time. We know Patrick can flip the switch when it matters. That's not excusing missed reads, but if he's more focused than is ideal on not getting beat up, I trust that it's a choice to prioritize the playoffs. He did it last year, too.

I think the poor LT play has him seeing ghosts. When that happens he tends to default to Kelce as he always has regardless of whether he’s open or not.

Not disagreeing, and let's remember Pat has a dinged up ankle; he's probably not excited about getting hit, maybe having some 300-lb. dude/multiple dudes land on top of him/his ankle. Maybe that's making him a little skittish as well, who knows?


But it's also a documented fact that Pat sometimes just gets happy feet and bails early for no real reason. Been doing it his entire career. It's like he anticipates the protection breaking down and tries to get ahead of it. Sees ghosts, I guess. He just usually fixes it eventually.


Man, I had a feeling DHop got open on that one EZ play, though the broadcast version didn't show it. Makes me cringe to see him standing there wide open with his hands in the air while Pat runs away from him. Ack.

Yet he'll scramble and try do to pull some pirouette to pick up a first down?

Wanna get your ankle dicked up? Keep leaving the pocket. That's a HELL of a lot more likely to get that ankle wrenched than standing tall and firing is.

It's no different than the QB sneak. Our refusal to just let him sneak the ball has gotten him blasted on speed options and bootlegs a half dozen times.

You're gonna get hit out there. Trying to avoid one kind of contact is just going to subject you to some other, likely more unnatural, form of it.

That's an Alex Smith pumpkin performance from Pat.

I'd agree with all of that. I'm just saying, when you're hurt, you sometimes act instinctively to protect yourself. It may not be the smartest thing or the most rational thing, but sometimes the anticipation of pain can make a person do dumb/irrational things in the heat of the moment.

I mean, I'm pretty sure that Pat knows that he did plenty of irrational things in that game that he'd love to be able to go back and change.

I think last year I got pissed about the nameless D Coordinator calling Mahomes a 1-read QB, but this year its been mostly true? Sometimes he'll get through his reads, other times its 1 read and then bail the pocket, whether there's pressure or not. Protection has been iffy this year, but its not like we have the worst line in the league either, its acceptable. Nothings changed, other than Mahomes being too much in his own head.

Yes. He ****ing sucks relative to his usual standards when he doesn't trust his blindside. This has been a constant throughout his entire career. For this year he and the organization are going to have to grin and bear it but next off season LT needs to be priority 1, 2, and 3. Get this ****ing shit fixed.

It sounds dumb but I wish I could chain his legs down at the end of his dropback. Just force him to live in the pocket and solve his problems from there without his legs bailing him out.

Like, father time is going to catch him eventually, he's gotta learn to stand in there longer at some point.

Actually felt at times this past month that hanging in the pocket has led to more sacks than it has prevented. I hear your point too, but overall I think his pocket presence - usually his strongest trait - has been poor whether he stays or bails.

Yeah, he's developed some bad habits or leaned into some bad habits over the last couple seasons, imo. And I doubt I discovered anything by thinking that. Pretty sure a ton of analysts, pro and amateur, picked up on it way before I did. And I'm seeing him lock in on a receiver right at the snap and just not look for another option, or flick through a read or two too fast then try to find Travis at the last second, and by then he's way late. Et cetera.

I'm not getting too worked up about it simply because we've seen this before, for several years now, and he always, eventually, gets himself sorted out.


However, I do worry that if we don't fix the protection and the weapons issues, this will become more the norm as the years go by.

There was this stretch from like 2020-2021, especially in the playoffs, where his pocket navigation was immaculate. He wasn't bailing, but he was beginning to do the Manning thing where he perfectly shifts himself to avoid the incoming traffic with eyes downfield, and then he'd rip a throw for a first down. It was glorious.

I haven't seen him do it for quite some time, it's a rarity nowadays if it happens.

Well you still gotta throw it on time.

Before Morris went down, that was the issue. And sometimes over the last couple of weeks. He was standing in the pocket but it looked like he was doing that thing he did early last season where he was locking onto his first read and waiting for him to open up instead of throwing him open or moving to his 2nd read.

Then as the game progressed, he started getting more confident and firing.

Didn't happen that way last week, though...

Just look at the aii-22. Worthy is wide and I mean wide open at least 2-3 times a game for a long TD/ Mahomes is looking his way many of those times and just decides to throw underneath.

Since we know Reid has seen the same thing on film. Why are they not insisting Mahomes take the TD shot the defense is giving us?

Denver just created too much pressure and not just because of the LT. The interior got mauled too.

You gonna put a shock collar on him during the game?

He's probably taking those shots in practice - we know he was in camp.

He KNOWS it, too. He says as much virtually every post-game presser. He's just not doing it in game situations.

Insist all you want but the bottom line is that he's been playing tight when the game starts. He loosens up a little as the game goes along, especially if he has some early success.

But it seems to me that he's just being really cautious in the first half of these games and then if/when the game stays tight and/or he hasn't had success the time or two he's pushed the ball, he stays tight.

A little more '**** it' wouldn't hurt. Especially early in games when there's still plenty of time to right the ship.

I think last season regressed him with all the drops and picks. I think he's gunshy this season because of it. Simply, he had his receivers drop 44+ passes last year and I forget how many turned into INTs. And that number is a little low, because PFR/ESPN still has Skyy only dropping 2 passes, which is 100% wrong, as we all know.

So, I think Pat's Risk vs. Reward meter is effed up. He's thinking, "the pass has to be dead-nuts perfect for my receivers (other than Travis) or he's going to drop it/cause an INT." So if he doesn't think he can put it right on the $$$, he hesitates. Or he tries to guide the ball, instead of just throwing it. Either way, he's not pulling the trigger on time, or not pulling it at all.

Just my opinion.

Dude just refuses to throw it into tight windows now. It's maddening. He has the arm, I doubt he thinks he can't do it, he just won't will himself to do it in game. And in Worthy's case he gets so few shots down field. If he misses the first one, well, pack it up guys, we're not taking any more of those.

Watch the first couple years of Mahomes. Dude would just sit in the pocket, dodge the pass rush, and then fire it in there to a WR. He might have been top 3 in navigating the pocket in the history of the NFL. He doesn't ever do that now. He just bails and runs and throws some crazy shit every single time. They need to make him stay in the pocket.

Not really - not his first year as a starter anyway.

I mentioned it when the did a Mahomes-a-thon on NFL Network a few years back. The difference between 2018 to 2019 and then to 2020 was STARK.

Watching those games in 2020 is like watching a completely different guy. The 2018 version was playing with his hair on fire. The 2020 version was the best we got from him, IMO.

I will forever maintain that the 2020 Chiefs were the best team of this entire era. Those OL injuries are just heartbreaking because that team was a buzzsaw and Mahomes was the best he's ever looked.

I agree dillphag. Certainly is a trust issue. LT has been bad but it isn't all on the LT. He's worried about taking a hit or getting stuck in no mans land. I honestly think if it is a playoff game he just steps up and takes hits if he has to.

I wasn't a big Worthy fan pre-draft but I expected us to get more than we are getting.

Seems like he knows we're playing with house money, and its all about survive and advance.

Even though he has a high INT:TD ratio this year, half the picks aren't really on the QB.

Feels like it's been super safe & conservative thus far, and it's worked. His missed passes are misses to safe spots instead of danger spots. Boundary balls, deep overthrows, or sky-high balls. Rarely is he throwing into contested space or putting the ball in danger.

It's put us in some shitty spots, but undefeated is undefeated.

Lastly, I agree that when we see the worst of Mahomes, it's either he's dicking around & being reckless (Not an issue this year), or he's so paranoid about bad OL (Tackle) play that he reverts into an average player (happening a lot this year).

And he's not trusting his players to make plays. I mean, I get it; he threw a lot of passes to guys that were wide open last season, and they managed to eff it up anyway, several times resulting in picks. But to win at the highest level, to win in the playoffs and the SB, a QB needs to get the ball into the hands of his playmakers, which means trusting them to make plays even in tight window/contested ball situations. And for the last two seasons in particular, Pat hasn't been willing to trust his players (other than Travis) to make plays.


I said more than a season ago that Pat running as much as he was running was a bad sign. Well, we're watching the results now.

Patrick has not been himself this year. He’s missed Worthy on multiple wide open deep shots this year.

He was 3 steps behind the defense vs Denver and SF and Mahomes made poor throws.

I blame it 100% on the LT. He has no confidence in his protection even when there actually is a pocket to move up into.

It's 100 percent this. Part is not trusting wide outs. You can see he throws like he means it to dhop, Kelce and occasionally Watson. He's rarely using the rifle to throw to anyone else. But Not trusting his back side has him thinking about things other than the throw and coverage. I'd imagine we could get away with a sub par play at any other position on the line from what we've seen. I was not a Smith or OBJ fan but both of them had him more settled than what we've seen so far. They usually lost slow at the least.

Fellas - he hasn't had a good deep ball his entire career.

He just used to have Tyreek Hill out there flagging it down.

He needs to work on his deep ball technique. Probably can't be done until the offseason. But he throws it flat and always has.

O.City thinks he throws it that way because he's late to pull the trigger and has to get more on it. It's as logical a reason as any, really. I think he's just in love with his arm a bit and has never had a good 'run under' receiver - even Hill preferred to jump up and turn to catch it.

In either event, it's just a technique issue that he's going to want to work on. I see no reason to believe he can't eventually get it figured out but right now it's just not a club he has with any regularity.

I've thought the same thing to be honest. On that throw it looks like he picks him up late and panics and tries to rip it in there.

He definitely seems like he's playing to not make a mistake instead of to make a play, which is crazy to think. I don't think he cares about stats, but I can imagine that his bad statistical season is something he does not want to see get worse. He could have easily had four touchdowns and a classic mahomes day.

Honestly, in some ways I'd rather this be the issue. We know what Pat is capable of. It's good to see that Worthy is getting open at times. He easily could have two more touchdowns and a hundred more yards just on those two plays being executed slightly differently from both parties.

Watch Russ deep balls. Absolute beautiful moon ball...then look at Pats flat rockets and there's our answer.

You nailed it. If Pat hits one deep I'm always surprised. That's all you gotta know.

I hope this offseason he shores up that part of his game because it's legit bad. Yes, when Reek was here it was better but that was Reek. NOt Pat. You can't overthrow Tyreek because his get off speed is insane. So Pat could hold it for a tad longer and then rip it and it worked.

Worthy takes longer to get to his top speed and he and Pat don't have this timed up.

But the ones he hit like in San Diego are RARE. And he shoulda easily hit the one Sunday.

Honestly, many times it felt like Tyreek was fielding punts out there... he would just go get the damn ball. He really was special. I wonder if the Chiefs realized how special he was as a WR when they let him walk. Sometimes you get spoiled.

They did. They just bet on themselves to rebuild his value in the aggregate.

They succeeded. Everything from that trade through Draft Day was a transcendent period in the Andy-Mahomes era. They traded a Hall of Fame player and elevated their Super Bowl winning team to a dynasty.

The 13 second game never happens without Reek.