maybe 24 wasn't a wise number for a WR to pick, down the field that number has always been for DBs maybe at a sub conscience level Pat see's #24 and his first thought is don't throw to that number unless I'm checking down to a RB!

His failure on special teams contributing to us losing to Indy has left half of CP hating him.

Its tough. When you have Mahomes at QB and you're always in the mix for a SB, the young players mistakes get magnified x1000. We're kinda impatient and want everyone to ball out the moment they touch the field. At least that's what I've noticed.

I just dont think Patrick trusts him right now after a couple INT’s thrown his way and the fumbled kicks. Not all on Skyy. It may be subconscious for Pat. Making things worse for Skyy is a very deep WR group. He would probably have 35 receptions for last years team but now are STACKED at WR.

I think it will work itself out. Guy can play.

Agreed. Chief Fan has this bizarre need to make a determination on a player as soon as n hits 9 games or so.

Unfortunately, getting open and being in the place you’re supposed to be when you’re supposed to be there in a timing offense like this one aren’t mutually exclusive.

Up till this point, Pat doesn’t trust the kid because he hasn’t shown to deserve that trust.

He’s going to have opportunities to earn that trust in the coming weeks and it’s up to him what he does with those opportunities.

I’ve seen Pat frustrated with the kid 2-3 times.

All rookies make mistakes, the good ones learn from them and strengthen their game through the struggles by not repeating mistakes.

That’s what we need to see from Skyy.

Karenplanet is very impatient.

We just need to stay on the bus, and trust the driver.

We didn't draft him to return punts.

I can see this point. Mahomes throws you the ball and you weren't in the spot you were supposed to be.... everyone in the stadium knows he's pissed off at you. That seems to piss him off on the field more than anything,

Virtually every play you can take any given WR and find a time that he's "wide open". That doesn't mean he's where he's supposed to be when he's supposed to be there. Moreover, it doesn't mean it wasn't a designed clear out or that he was a primary option on the play.

In the grand scheme of things...it doesn't mean much.

What we know is that Andy Reid is one of the most gifted offensive minds the league has ever seen. We also know that Patrick Mahomes is maybe the most dynamic and effective QB the league has ever seen.

And NEITHER of these guys seem compelled to get the football to Skyy Moore. Meanwhile Kadarius Toney came in and 2 weeks later was getting looks.

That's a hell of a lot more demonstrative of what's happening out there than a screen capture of an 'open' player.

Evidently he isn't Toney or even Justin Watson either.

Everything is relative and relative to a brand new player and a complete JAG, Skyy Moore has been an afterthought in this offense.

A complete JAG after 9 games? Don't you think that's a little extreme?

He gets openly frustrated by 'effort' mistakes more than anything.

Think of the times he's really gotten on Hardman in the past and again on Moore this season - they're plays where the guy didn't finish the play off. He quit on the route or didn't go all out to get to a ball.

Mahomes seems somewhat patient when it comes to mental errors (he didn't react when he threw that pick against SF when Moore clearly blew the route). He seems to understand that this is a process.

But if he's getting frustrated with a player on the field, it's probably because he doesn't think that player finished the play off. Then when you see Moore jake a downfield block and notice the contrast in how he speaks of Toney (or even Watson) vs. Moore - well, some pieces start to fall into place.

Justin Watson is the JAG to whom I am referring.

Ah yes, I see it now. My apologies.

I keep harping on this but that was the play that really turned me off. I can live with mistakes if the effort is there. Not giving the proper effort when the ball is not in your hands is almost unforgivable.

This.

I don't even think he's "peeling" open on that play either. #23 is covering that zone he's in and only leaves when the pass is thrown to go make the tackle. And Skyy was about to run right into another players zone so he would have been open for all of 0.5 seconds even if Mahomes didn't throw it when he did.

Comparing Toney and Skyy is odd. It’s literally apples to oranges.

Toney was an All SEC top 20 drafted talent. He was expected to be a #1 caliber WR. And here he will have every chance to be what Tyreek Hill was for us.

Skyy was never projected by anyone to be a #1 WR. He was always projected to be a quality starting WR, but not Toney.

And yes he is getting open. The reverse play was a specific play design for Toney. Even though Skyy was wide open 15 yards downfield Patrick threw it 3 yards quickly to Toney.

Toney is obviously more talented than Skyy. And he’s gonna get even better.

Skyy needs more experience just like…a lot of rookies. Getting upset that he isn’t setting the world on fire is bizarre especially when the offense looks great.

I can't speak for anyone else but I don't think anyone expects him to set the world on fire. Just be where you're supposed to be and give the effort you're supposed to give.

Gotta love these fading expectation arguments.

We went from "our new Wes Welker" to "Andy's offense is too hard" to "well Toney is actually talented so it's different ok".

"He was the best receiver in the draft!"

"Well Akshually you shouldn't expect him to stay ahead of Justin Watson on the depth chart..."

Yeah - things have changed a bit since April...

My dude - we have Antonio Brown comparisons in this very thread. There are people trying to say he has HoF talent.

Meanwhile the 'haters' compared him to Sterling Shepard and are now being accused of 'being upset' when the guy can barely play 15 snaps without messing up.

And we have people pointing to designed clear-outs as proof he's "Getting open" as though that means anything.

I mean c'mon. There's one side that's been unreasonable throughout this process - it ain't mine.

Who said he was Wes Welker? LMAO

"Guys, he played in the MAC - he's not used to these defensive concepts and the speed of the game. Why do you have such unreasonable expectations of him!!"

{ahem}

None of this is new. None of these points are novel or anything that wasn't considered by some of us months ago.

And none of them even begin to undercut the original argument which is that Skyy Moore, while not a bad developmental player, was not a 2nd round caliber prospect.

"Well Kadarius Toney is actually talented" isn't the own you think it is, fellas.

And when even my 'hater' expectations were clearly FAR too high...well I guess it's my own fault for expecting he'd be able to hold off premium talents like Justin Watson to maintain his spot in the pecking order. Oops - my bad.

You sure you wanna ride this train?

There's more. And plenty of it.

BossChief is the eternal optimist on this board. He says that about everyone LMAO

Staylor compared him to Diontae Johnson which seems pretty appropriate to me. I thought he could be our version of Hunter Renfrow.

Neither of those guys are #1 WR’s and were never expected to be

Moore has probably been the biggest disappointment thus far outside of the Chiefs running game problems.

Diontae Johnson - 3rd round
Hunter Renfrow - 5th round

Again - I don't hate the guy. I just think we overdrafted him. I think Sam Williams is who we should've drafted and then if Moore had fallen to the pick we used on Cook I'd have been less frustrated had we taken him there (though I still think it's too high) and if he'd have fallen to the 3rd I'd have been pretty content.

I don't know how many ways I can say "not a 2nd round prospect" only to have y'all agree with me by disagreeing we can pull off here.

Maybe you don't understand the origins of this debate then.

Instead of sitting there trying to shit on guys like me and DJ like we're just these unreasonable Skyy Moore haters.

Half of ya'll are completely making up shit about our arguments instead of just paying attention to what we're actually saying.

Instead of listening, ya'll go on to full on defense mode and dramatize our position in the complete opposite direction. Instead of understanding what we're saying, some of ya'll take it to the extreme and claim that's our position.

At this point it isn't even about the player or the person that is Skyy Moore.

It's about the blatant CP homerism and outright denial in the face of evidence. It's a never ending list of excuses and ever increasing lowered expectations.

My position has not changed.

1. No, i never liked him coming out of college as a 2nd round pick. Nothing in his "tape" jumped out to me. He didn't demonstrate truly elite traits you could hang your hat on IMO. I made this known well before the draft. It was never anything personal with Moore, i just value other traits and thought the Chiefs could use a real perimeter WR that could accentuate Mahomes, not require Mahomes to be magical to make him work.

2. Upon drafting him, it was well known i didn't prefer him over the guys we passed up on, but still supported him as i think it's a fool's errand to bet against Reid and Mahomes. I said i expect him to still produce at some level because honestly, Reid and Mahomes can make an offense go with 22 guys off the street.

3. I scoffed at the idea that Reid won't play rookies when THAT was the excuse.

4. I scoffed at the idea that Reid's offense is simply too hard for rookie WR's and espoused that if he were talented enough, Reid would get him the ball much like he does with all of his offensive toys.

.......

Then when the guy can't get on the field and 7th round rookies can, and then when Reid gets a guy onto the field and feeds him and he hasn't even been on the roster for a week or two....and when other players drafted around him are producing in a manner that matches their college "tape"....we still get talked down to like we're just a bunch of haters who have no idea what they're talking about and just hate Skyy Moore.

Dudes.....GMAFB

And to the inevitable "you wouldn't give up a 2nd round pick for Johnson or Renfrow!?!" argument (that we've already had), again, as noted, if a guy comes out and blows up, who cares about 'overdrafting'? At that point it's all null.

But you don't put the odds in your favor doing it the way we did. And that was the purpose of the real time disagreement over the pick - to point out that this ISN'T the kind of bet that should be made, not when a guy with blue chip talent like Williams was there to be had.

Moore very well could go off this weekend.

I DO think he's a smooth athlete. I do think he has good hands. I think he has good enough speed.

I'm not "Out" on Moore. I'm not calling him a bust.

I'm saying he's not the guy CP tried to convince me he is and early returns aren't working in your favor and your excuses suck.

I think he needs to play through the whistle and pull his head from his ass. I'm still puzzled as to how he blew a dig route. I just don't get that one at all.

And perhaps Andy can make things easy for him and he can put some numbers up. But hell, Andy could do that for Watson as well.

I just don't see anything that tells me NOW is the time the he's suddenly going to be a guy who's manufacturing yards in the way you would hope for from a 2nd round pick. If he's just a Justin Watson sort of 'take what's available' receiver - what was the point?

I can't see him being orders of magnitude different than he was 2-3 weeks ago. I guess we'll find out - seems like he's gonna be one of the few guys we have available and somebody's gonna have to be making plays out there...

This could be a big weekend for Marcus Kemp

Really?

It's a joke, but I do expect him to be active if Lammons can't go.

Right. SOMEBODY will have to make some plays out there and Moore is as good of a candidate as any.

Whether he's ready or not, the Chiefs will have to dial up plays to get more involved assuming two of our top 3 WR's aren't available.

And you hit there, "Manufacture plays on your own". And that's why i was hell bent on Pickens etc instead of Moore: The ability to create a play when there isn't one, not just be the beneficiary of an excellent system, coach and QB. The ability to bail your QB out, is what i'm looking for.

I have NO doubt that Moore can become a guy who benefits from the system, coach and Qb and be able to produce when his number is drawn and Mahomes puts a dot on his ass.

But goddamnit dudes, Albert ****ing Wilson could do that. Byron Pringle could do that.


........

Something Reid said the other day regarding Toney really stood out to me. He said, "The QB trusts him".

Mahomes trusts Kelce. He trusts JuJu. He's gaining some trust in MVS. He's never really trusted Hardman and he hasn't trusted Moore.

But for some reason...he trusts Toney. And we saw that trust when he threw one up to him in double coverage.

So there's clearly something going on there that's preventing Mahomes from trusting Moore.

"He's been in this system for 5 years!!!"

I mean that one just writes itself.

I know it was a miniscule sample size, but didn't he flash at some point in week 1/2/3 in the WR role?

I feel like he had a hard as hell hand snag in traffic, and another good play with some YAC.

I'm not out on him at all just yet. I think he'll be a fine addition later this year and will probably make a big step next season.

I remember he had a youtube video talking about how crazy the level of detail is with Mahomes about hand placement mid route and through the catch process.

Its gotta be like going from a high school algebra 1 class to a calculous class at Harvard.

I keep lobbing them up there, you keep knocking them out.

Then stop drafting guys in the 2nd round that need that much time to produce or develop.

Week 1, IIRC.

He made a nice little 'pick' out out of the air on a ball that's definitely intercepted if it goes off his hands.

And then he had another fairly straightforward pitch/catch that yielded some YAC, yeah.

But for all the "I know he can be X" we hear from guys, boy - you're letting that ONE catch do a lot of work because that little snag is literally the only thing he's done on a football field this year that demonstrates any kind of innate ability to be a difference maker.

But there's always next week...

He had a pretty high ceiling coming out of college. Route running, athleticism and hands were there.

He has not been what I thought he was going to be this early but the 2nd half of the season will tell us more about him. Juju being out sucks but this is a good opportunity for the kid to make plays.

I think he’s just behind the gun here. He’s not taking snaps this year from Juju, MVS or Hardman. Now he’s definitely not taking snaps from Toney, who will probably take snaps from Hardman himself.

If we didn’t have Toney I think Moore would be the one getting the plays that Toney got last week.

In his limited opportunities he's flashed the ability to snatch the ball with his hands, which is an excellent trait. And i do think he looks like a smooth athlete out there, and a natural hands catcher.

I think he will develop into a nice complimentary pass catcher. I think he has the ability to do so. I'd even say i'd expect him to.

But a nice, developmental, complimentary pass catcher is kind of a bitter pill to swallow when there was talent in the 2nd round that jumped off the page much more than Skyy did, and is currently showing early returns.

I think the crux of MY position regarding this debate boils down to: Don't piss in my cereal and tell me it's milk.

I think you're fooling yourself.

People keep saying this, but I don't think he's shown anything that would lead anything to think he's gonna be the guy they use for the jet sweeps and such they use Hardman (and now Toney) for.

He's shown a couple times to have nice hands I guess though.

Yeah, I don't really see where that stuff comes from to be honest. He definitely hasn't shown much of that in the NFL to this point.

Yeah, Kccrow likes that one. "Skyy is the eventual replacement for Hardman", he likes to say.

I couldn't disagree more.

How many Jet sweeps has Moore taken this year? MAYBE 1? idk.

Zero - and there's a very good reason for that.

They've been giving him traditional routes. If they had any desire to see him in that Tyreek/Hardman speed sweep, screen, misdirection sort of role i'd imagine we'd have seen some of that by now.

Their usage kinda tells you how they view the player.

Still not sure where I'm supposed to see this.

A 10 yard split and dusting the MAC?

This gets back to where we were a couple days ago when it was suggested he had 'elite level timing in short area skills' - he simply doesn't. Never did.

It's a thing folks have convinced themselves of that...isn't.

Does he have quick feet? Yeah - but they don't seem to translate to his 3-cone time. Does he have a fast 10 yard split? Yeah - but his 40 is...okay. And frankly, we've seen Toney already make a play where slowing down created a throwing lane as he approached the sideline. Merely having a good 10 yard split doesn't mean you have a premier short-area skill.

To this point there are declaratory statements that continue to be made that simply aren't supported by the evidence we've seen. None of that is permanent, but it's absolutely the present lay of the land.

Big opportunity for Moore vs the Chargers. If Moore can’t do it in this game then he probably won’t this year.

I was just about to post this as well. Great opportunity for him with it looking like Mecole and JJSS are out.

4.41 isn’t exactly slow. It’s a solid time. Not elite but fast.

His short speed is absolutely his best quality. 10 yard time was elite. 99th percentile. I think that you’re referring to his lateral speed which I agree was not great as seen on his 3 cone.

He also has huge hands and had a great catch rate in college. Again as a WR, not a returner.

The Arizona catch he made and some of the others like the sideline catch in Chicago in preseason was absolutely who I thought he’d be. And he’s flashed that at times.

I think putting him at returner (which he never did) bc of his hands in college was a mistake and hurt his confidence. And of course he made a mistake running a route in SF.

But they need to get him out there, especially now. Give him a look and see what he can do. We’ve seen flashes.

Now is the time.

Sammy Watkins was a 4.45+ guy. 4.41 is more than fast enough.

They were having him do that stuff in training camp IIRC. Might actually get some of those looks now, unless Toney gobbles them all up.

4.41, 4.45, whatever it takes

Well Juju and Hardman are almost certainly going to be out this week. There's no reason he shouldn't get a season high amount of snaps. He needs to capitalize.

It will be interesting to see how many targets Toney takes away from Moore. Because Toney is obviously WAY more talented.

It might not matter. If Mahomes doesn't trust him enough to throw him the ball he could play 100% of the snaps and it wouldn't mean shit.

Yep.

This is really his best opportunity so far and will probably be his best opportunity all year. Time to make it count.

Hardman headed to IR

Source?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...471ce1c66f.jpg


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Antonio Brown was a 6th round WR......

Just goes to show you that players develop in different ways.

Most Chief fans are already writing Skyy off.

I don't know if it's most, but a good chunk of Chief Fans certainly seem to prefer to rush to judgement. I'll admit that I don't get it.

The hysterical/troll tends to get the most attention.

What else is new?

Funny how the weathermen that stick their hands out the window to tell you its raining don't draw a lot of eyes.

You're correct, if all you have to say on a topic is "eh, just wait longer" - nobody's gonna engage much. There's literally no discussion to be had at that point.

You wanna ride the fence - I'm not gonna stop you. But don't fool yourselves fellas, that's ALL you're doing here.

Sky has some high end abilities and has the intelligence to keep improving.

I’m confident…FWIW…that Sky is a player.

It’s there, it just needs to be coached up, and given a chance.

Hoping he can put on a show coming off the bench.

C’mon Skyy, get your ass out there and do something!!!!

Nothing in that post is wrong, outside of him being able to field punts (and it’s noted that’s what Veach said about the pick)

Best in slot but can play outside.
Can return punts and kickoffs (Veach said this would be part of his initial role in KC)
Elite quicks
Elite acceleration
Smaller in stature
Not a deep threat, but has the speed to be.
Very reliable hands
Good vision on adjustable routes
Smart

Skyy is bigger, but comparable.

—-

Wes didn’t catch his first pass until he was into his second year and had 29 catches for 439 yards snd no scores in his second year. That post snd others like it compare the players upsides and I don’t think they’re far off.

Time will tell if I’m wrong or not, not his first 9 nfl games.

Orly?

I really, really hope he shows something against the Chargers. I wanted Christian Watson, and he has been great the past two weeks with like 5 TD catches, and then I would have taken Pickens over Moore.

If he continues to make zero contributions, it will be hard to not be disappointed with taking him in the draft.

So, I was initially upset with the pick, but some of his supporters on CP made very good points in their arguments, and I ended up feeling optimistic about Moore. Now I am just hoping to see something that will help me be optimistic again.



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Soon my friend……soon

This next stretch of games will be the opportunity for Skyye to either show he is ready for more or get pushed down further in the depth chart.

We all know that development comes at different rates for everyone. Personally, I am disappointed as I was hoping that he would be a short yardage catch guy for us. I thought he would be able to create separation quickly and be our 1st down maker.

I would put myself on the over-hype side for Skyye as I knew we needed a "guy" after Tyreek left. I am happy that Thomey looks more like that guy and still hold out hope that Skyye will be the possession receiver as well.

As of now, Skyye has been a disappointment. I do not like him fielding punts at all even though that is his best chance for making an immediate impact.

Here's to hoping he steps up!

2 receptions on 3rd down including this one cooking Derwin James

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Skyy Moore vs Derwin James on 3rd down! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> <a href="https://t.co/cEPR0aSS8B">pic.twitter.com/cEPR0aSS8B</a></p>&mdash; ������������ @���������������� (@FTBeard7) <a href="https://twitter.com/FTBeard7/status/1594535607782735873?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 21, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Multiple clutch catches including this one:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Skyy Moore’s November <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MACtion?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MACtion</a> superpowers continue to show up on SNF for the Chiefs.<br><br>Makes an incredible adjustment on the Mahomes scramble drill to pick up another first down. Has a career-high 4 receptions for 50 yards tonight. <a href="https://t.co/sSoJt6U4gJ">pic.twitter.com/sSoJt6U4gJ</a></p>&mdash; Seven Rounds in Heaven (@7RoundsInHeaven) <a href="https://twitter.com/7RoundsInHeaven/status/1594540059293777920?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 21, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Also had a good catch on the game winning drive.

This guy has to play. He’s good at football

Again, why not give a rookie a few games? What's with the need to rush to declare a rookie a "bust?" I still don't get it.

That first route was a thing of beauty.

Bea ute iful

That game is about what I expected when I first saw what he was in college, which was basically the same time he was drafted because I dont give a **** about college players until their name is called when the Chiefs are on the clock.

I dont know why we dont run him across the middle more often, though.