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-   -   Money Class action lawsuit filed over Jackson County assessments (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=349124)

Bearcat 07-11-2023 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdj23 (Post 17012195)
I keep getting emails about the 80k in equity in my house. Zilliow says it's worth 275k, the county says 250k, the bank says 210k. I know a couple of those aren't the best indicators but i think something is lost in translation here.

I'm thinking about doing the reappraisal once my new roof, gutters and siding are done.

You can get a decent idea by searching recently sold houses on zillow and filtering by the specs of your house (which is hopefully how the zestimate does it)... of course, depends on how many similar houses have sold fairly recently.

DaFace 07-11-2023 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearcat (Post 17012198)
I was shopping for rentals in AZ a couple years ago and there were gutted houses on the market for $250k.



I know easy solution is "well, don't live in AZ", but often not that simple for people with extended family, kids, etc.



The ~90k seventy year old starter house I bought in KC 10 years ago is now estimated at $175k, which is kind of nuts for first time buyers on a house that old and not in an amazing neighborhood.

It's a long story to type on a phone, but my MIL was the executor of the estate of a friend who passed away and was responsible for selling his home. He was more of a hoarder than I have seen on any TV show, lived alone, didn't clean. The bathroom sink was held up with a 2x4 and the living room was filled with shelves with easily 5,000 VHS tapes just to paint the picture. We filled four rollaway dumpsters cleaning it out. Not a huge place, maybe 1500sf, but on a decent neighborhood.

We thought it might sell for 100k or so because of the location. The realtor suggested we list it at 275k. It sold for 300k. It was flipped and sold for 575k two months later.

Complete and utter insanity.

George Liquor 07-11-2023 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bearcat (Post 17012200)
You can get a decent idea by searching recently sold houses on zillow and filtering by the specs of your house (which is hopefully how the zestimate does it)... of course, depends on how many similar houses have sold fairly recently.

My buddy sold a similar size ranch house to mine 2 years ago for 250k. Different sides of town but IMO where I live is the more desirable place.

007 07-11-2023 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneWolf (Post 17008831)
Dude, it doesn’t matter what percentage it went up. Are they overvaluing your neighbor’s house? You already admitted they aren’t overvaluing yours.

There are people like Duncan and Inspector who are getting ****ed and I hope on appeal they get their assessments reduced to what is reasonable, but anyone complaining when their property was severely undervalued for years needs to stop.

Now, post your reply of “**** off, Wichita boy.”


It's amazing how everything was overvalued and impossible to sell just 10 years ago. Now,all of the sudden, everything is SEVERELY undervalued and needs correction. Covid happens and suddenly everything became more valuable. ****ing bullshit what they are doing to citizens.

Our escrow jumped $150 per month overnight thanks to property taxes. My home wasn't worth 150k 10 years ago. Now it's worth 275k. I couldn't sell it for that at all. The county knows this too.

Gravedigger 07-11-2023 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdj23 (Post 17012172)
My county is pulling this bullshit too.

Ok since my home is valued so high, can i remove the PMI from my loan?

Bank - haha no we only value your home at x amount of dollars, too low. But we can reappraise it for $500! I'm getting ****ed on both ends of this scam

No shit, can't sell in this market unless you want to be stuck overpaying for a step down, can't refinance at these rates to get out of PMI or change from an FHA loan to a Conventional loan, just not a good scenario for anything at this point.

Woogieman 07-11-2023 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdj23 (Post 17012195)
I keep getting emails about the 80k in equity in my house. Zillow says it's worth 275k, the county says 250k, the bank says 210k. I know a couple of those aren't the best indicators but i think something is lost in translation here.

I'm thinking about doing the reappraisal once my new roof, gutters and siding are done.

Zillow is ok if you are in a homogeneous subdivision, but their algorithms have little nuance, and can't really factor for new roof, HVAC, siding, etc. They ae particularly terrible when it comes to lower level finish.

George Liquor 07-11-2023 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woogieman (Post 17012238)
Zillow is ok if you are in a homogeneous subdivision, but their algorithms have little nuance, and can't really factor for new roof, HVAC, siding, etc. They ae particularly terrible when it comes to lower level finish.

90% of the houses in my neighborhood are similar ranch style houses.

Bob Dole 07-11-2023 07:26 AM

This inspired me to look up my old KC house and it says it recently sold for $266k. I sold it for $90k in 1995. Crazy.

Woogieman 07-11-2023 07:38 AM

[QUOTE=bdj23;17012244]90% of the houses in my neighborhood are similar ranch style houses.[/QUOT]

Zillow will probably be in a reasonable range then if there has been a fair amount of transactions in the subdivision since 2022

Woogieman 07-11-2023 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Dole (Post 17012249)
This inspired me to look up my old KC house and it says it recently sold for $266k. I sold it for $90k in 1995. Crazy.

lol...my first house was in Waldo, bought it around 1995 and I had to move to the burbs about 4 yrs later because I couldn't keep the burglars out. Bought it for $72, sold it for about $125 and thought I made out like a bandit. The last transaction from 2021 was $270k, and EVERY interior detail was the same as when I left. Buying and holding was one of the few ways for the middle class to stay afloat.

Hammock Parties 07-11-2023 08:07 AM

Seems fair!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">As Jackson County prepares to field thousands of 2023 property value appeals, the Missouri State Tax Commission recently agreed to reduce the Country Club Plaza&#39;s assessments — from 2019 — by more than $112 million. <a href="https://t.co/RWh3yteYy1">https://t.co/RWh3yteYy1</a></p>&mdash; Kansas City Business Journal (@KCBizJournal) <a href="https://twitter.com/KCBizJournal/status/1678630302632083457?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 11, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Eureka 07-11-2023 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 17012192)
Eh, depends on where you live I guess. The median home price in Denver these days is about $600k. I can't imagine having to save up $150k just for a down payment. I'm fortunate to have been able to buy right before the climb began.

I paid just over $200k for our place in 2009. These days, that'll barely buy you a full strip it to the studs remodel project in a shitty neighborhood.

Younger generation just has to adjust. Something like a 5 year savings plan and expect the market to lower a bit and interest rates get better. They'll learn to live frugally for a bit and appreciate what they accomplish. During the 5 year plan they can work on their credit, learn to budget, and study the market. Sure it's a harder road but at least they have a path. Got to get creative like living with parents or have roommates etc.

It's not as easy as 2009 but there can be a way.

BigRedChief 07-11-2023 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneWolf (Post 17012187)
Younger generations can afford to buy homes, but for the most part they are unwilling to sacrifice to go it. They would never stoop so low as to not live in the same type of house their parents live in or they can’t fathom buying a fixer upper and putting sweat equity into it. They’d rather rent so they don’t have the responsibility to take care of anything and then bitch that the system is ****ing them over.

I got married and decided to live in her house in Aurora. Small ass house in Aurora that needed a shit ton of work. We did the work. Used that money for a down payment in a 3500 sq. foot house in Lees Summit suburbia. Sold that 19 years later, used the proceeds to buy a house on the water in Florida.

I'd bet anyone over 40 is doing the same thing. Thats how the majority of the working middle class got ahead in their lives.

BigRedChief 07-11-2023 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaFace (Post 17012192)
Eh, depends on where you live I guess. The median home price in Denver these days is about $600k. I can't imagine having to save up $150k just for a down payment. I'm fortunate to have been able to buy right before the climb began.

I paid just over $200k for our place in 2009. These days, that'll barely buy you a full strip it to the studs remodel project in a shitty neighborhood.

Prices have exploded down here too. I couldn't afford to buy my house today.

Hammock Parties 07-11-2023 08:39 AM

Missouri sides with Country Club Plaza in outstanding appeals of 2019 property values

Quote:

The Missouri State Tax Commission has agreed to set aside Jackson County's assessment values for most properties owned by the Country Club Plaza — from two tax cycles ago.

The Country Club Plaza JV LLC, a 50-50 joint venture between Taubman Centers and The Macerich Co., saw value reductions for 20 of its 29 property parcels, or all of those for which it had outstanding appeals for the 2019-2020 tax cycle. The shopping center owners first filed the appeals from determinations by the county's Board of Equalization in February 2020.

The result from the state tax commission's June 30 decision and order was a $112.2 million, or 38.4%, decrease in value for the 20 Plaza parcels in question — from $291.8 million to $179.65 million for 2019-2020. The Plaza's property holdings overall decreased by 32.4% in that tax cycle — from $345.8 million to $233.6 million — counting four more parcels for which the shopping center owners dismissed appeals, and five others for which it did not contest county assessments.

The Plaza since 2019 has ranked as Jackson County's third largest taxpayer, behind two Evergy entities rooted in legacy Kansas City Power & Light Co. operations. It was uniquely large but hardly alone among local property owners that pushed back against Jackson County's 2019 assessments. A state audit later found that the assessments yielded value increases more than 70% higher than those in other Missouri counties, and more than 21,000 appeals.

The Plaza's owners initially sought even lower values for the 20 properties subject to the state commission's recent ruling, down to $122 million, based on a 14.9% increase from 2018. The commission's $179.65 million number matches the sum of values the Plaza subsequently presented from Lenexa-based Mainland Valuation Services, which assumed market rent and market occupancy in appraisals for each parcel. Those appraisals represented "substantial and persuasive evidence establishing overvaluation," the state tax commission found.

During a two-day evidentiary hearing in November 2021, Jackson County's attorneys argued that the Plaza's appraisals were misleading and did not account for the properties' highest and best use as "a single economic unit as a lifestyle center for shopping, dining and entertainment," as they had been acquired by current ownership for $660 million in March 2016.

But the state tax commission sided with the Plaza, describing that argument as "not credible" in its decision. While Taubman and Macerich bought the properties as a collective, each is leased, assessed and taxed on an individual basis. Standalone Plaza parcels also since have been sold, such as the Valencia Place office tower, the commission wrote.

Some, including local taxing jurisdictions, historically have questioned Jackson County's accuracy in capturing the Plaza's fair market value — or, alternatively, whether its owners paid well above that value — when subsequent assessments have fallen well below its $660 million sale price. The state commission's decision notes that that figure extended beyond real property and improvements to include "personal property, art, contracts, financial instruments and other intangibles as well as all assets and rights to operate the Country Club Plaza."

The commission's June 30 decision gives Jackson County 30 days to file an application for it to be reviewed, with "specific detailed grounds upon which it is claimed the decision is erroneous." A representative said the county's Assessment Department did not have a decision on the matter from the County Counselor's office as of late last week.

It's not clear what tax revenues the Plaza stands to recoup from a potential final resolution of its 20 appeals. Once a county tax collector receives notice of a property owner's appeal to the state commission, any taxes paid under protest are held in an escrow fund until such a resolution occurs. Jackson County received a cumulative $23.75 million in tax receipts from the Plaza in 2019 and 2020, its annual financial reports show.

The state tax commission's decision is poised to have ramifications for additional appeals the Plaza has outstanding for the 2021-2022 tax cycle. It seeks a $196.5 million decrease for 24 parcels, from the county Board of Equalization's $328 million figure to a proposed $131.5 million.

A representative said the Plaza also will appeal its assessments for the 2023-2024 cycle, for which the county valued all of its properties at $401.9 million.

"We are very pleased that the State Tax Commission ruled in our favor regarding our appeals of the 2019 and 2020 tax assessments for Country Club Plaza," a Plaza spokesperson said. "This decision gives us great confidence in the strength of our legal arguments for our additional pending appeals for which we believe will result in the same outcome."

The county Board of Equalization on Friday agreed to extend its deadline for appeals of 2023 assessments from Monday to July 31. County officials said at least 22,000 residents already have filed appeals as of last week, in connection with what they estimated were 30% and 25% respective average increases for residential and commercial properties.


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