Maybe then we won't be paying a G the highest amount in the league at his spot though?

That's also very possible. Takes 2 to tango.

Who the **** are you again?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Chris Jones is much dumber than I imagined.

It would be beneficial for both sides to get a deal done now. KC gets to lower his high cap number this year and Jones gets to get his final big $$$ deal.

We do pay elite players though. We just don't pay them a second time. Which going through NFL history is pretty obviously the correct way of conducting business.

Why not?

1. He wants insane money, apparently $30 million.
2. An injury to him ****s your entire team bc of resources in one player (see Buffalo once Von got hurt).
3. He's got maybe 3 years left of being this good before the decline and we get one of them this season.
4. Having 4 solid rushers instead of one great one isn't the end of the world for us.

Follow the tea leaves. Drafted Karlaftis, turned around and drafted FAU, reportedly wanted DT Mazi Smith in the draft, signed Omenihu who is one of the better interior rushers on passing downs.

They've known about this and have been preparing for it

As always, you have absolutely no clue what you’re talking about. Kindly return to your hole while the grown-ups discuss football.

I think they fully expected to pay Jones. Had they not, they would have traded him and done something with the $20M in savings and picks to help this year.

His demands changed when the paper was presented for a pen. Clearly.

I had that happen last week.

Worked out a good deal (that the party had agreed to previously). Then backed out the next day.

It’s no fun for anyone.

A lot of people seem to think trading him now was a part of the plan. If they wanted to trade him, like you said, it would have been before the draft so they could have made preparations for this season. Trading him now puts our D in quite a bind. It isn't built to exist without Chris Jones at the moment.

You trade him now if you get a great offer.

I am guessing Jones doesn't want to get traded, so he didn't show his hand on the holdout until so late in the process so they wouldn't explore that option.

Feels like it is very late in the game of playing chicken, and the much bigger side is about to plow through the other if they refuse to break.

I wouldn't pay 30, sure.

The Bills have 3 or 4 pass rushers they drafted similar to Karlaftis and FAU, but carry on.

3 years of elite DPOY DT play is worth paying for

Having 4 solid rushers is fine, why can't we have that along with an elite one like they'd budgeted in for this year?

They brought in DL because the guys they drafted either didn't work out or left.

You don't trade him now. For ****s sake, give it up.

Yeah, trading him now would require a trade partner who can take the cap hit and send a starter-caliber DT back for him. Pretty slim list there.

Basically, you’d need a front office to do something stupid, too.

Picks plus a player and then pay the guy, too? Hard to see someone being that silly.

Again, I'll take the Khalil Mack trade if anybody's buying.

This mofo wants to be DPOY and skip 8 games.

He's goinna have to wreck it the rest of the season like he's the 2nd coming of the Incredible Hulk !

Why? It's looking like his value will only go down come next offseason. Veach gets a great offer he should trade him.

These players need to stop signing with stupid agents that end up losing them millions and in some cases, tens of millions of dollars.

Allow me to kick you in the ass so hard, you land back in your donk thread, dickweed. Bye now.......

I agree and only a few teams would make sense.

How about Falcons? Wasn't the Falcons Jone's team growing up? Anyways they send a 1st plus say Calais Campbell to man DT for this year.

Falcons could be Chris Jones away from winning that crappy division.

Unfortunately, Aaron Donald is not available, so I don't know why this was brought up, because I'm sure you can't be talking about the guy who literally has 1 DPOY vote in his entire career and only 2 double digit sack seasons and assume that he'll just magically have 3 straight DPOY years.

Not trying to hate on CJ95. He's a phenomenal player, but some people on here have him way too high. We can't act like he's the best defensive player in the league. He's not, nor has he been any year. Very good, of course, but he's never been the best.

I know! Let's get Minny to do it!

Uhh, there's no guarantee you're getting those 3 years of Elite DPOY play, though. He's had 2 years of that caliber of play in his career, 18 and 22. He had a stretch of borderline elite from 19-21, and it's not worth resetting the market for multiple years when he's going to be on the wrong side of 30.

I love chris jones the player.

I hate chris jones the negotiator. This is the second time in three years he has held out while still under contract, thus creating an unnecessary distraction to a team with championship aspirations.

Im at the point that im fine if the chiefs trade him for a tyreek level haul.

He's not resetting the market though.

You're about to have multiple 30 million dollar per year defensive players.

Because we still want to win a SB this year and Mike Danna and Keondre Coburn probably aren't getting that done on the DL.

I think that's on CJ95....he's under contract, play it.

He is, in essence, resetting the market.

Christian Kirk was not the highest paid WR. However, his contract reset the market.

Paying CJ95 would reset the market, a non-generational talent defensive player getting 30M a year.

Week 8 per X (FKA twitter)?

Real or a bluff?

For consistent DPOY talent that's young. Jones is going to be in his 30s for the entirety of any extension and that's when he's going to start declining, even if it is slowly. That's not worth resetting the market by 5+ million.

Presumptively any team that trades for him does it with a new contract and can take on the deal pretty easily.

I'd think $10 million or better in space would be enough to get him a new deal and get him under it.

I mean lets say you're the Jags and you think you can win now with a QB still on a rookie contract. And you've got a guy who would WRECK as a 3-tech in that 3-5 system (and has done so, in fact).

And you have, say, DaVon Hamilton who obviously isn't Chris Jones or anything resembling him, but he's starting caliber. Though he did just have a back issue pop up on him so maybe you're looking at Fatukasi or Roy Roberston-Harris. Again - neither of them are exceptional but they can be short term contributors.


Now I'm not saying it's an obvious yes, but you offer them Jones for Hamilton (physical pending) and a 1st and 3rd - maaaaaybe?

It's not ideal by any means - I REALLY wouldn't want to be playing him in the post-season. But it's also not the only option out there. There are options if we had to go that route. Jones is 100% scheme versatile. You can send him to a 3-4 team or even a 4-3 team looking for a DE (where he was actually quite good last season when used out there).

Any team could use him and many teams could afford him.

But it's obviously a last resort scenario.

That's fine. I don't disagree.

We need to remember this though when we start discussing extensions for an off ball linebacker and a C though.

I'm just not doing it now. The die here is cast. You'd also have a DL that's never played here, coming in with no time here or camp.

You've built your DL around the guy. Now you trade him, we don't have a defense that can hold up to win a SB.

Especially Chicago with a GM groomed under Veach despite them being the popular choice.

So pay him $30 million?

Oh wait - you said don't do that.

Pay him $25 million?

Oh wait - he said HE won't do that.

So...we gonna hope he's got a horse named Khartoum he intends to send to Stud? Gonna go have Luca tell him his his signature or his brains go on the contract?

You're arguing both sides here. If he won't sign a reasonable deal, he won't sign a reasonable deal. Nobody's saying "**** that guy - dump him". We're saying that if he won't sign AND he won't play, then mitigation is the order of the day.

I mean...unless you wanna start putting horse heads in people's beds. And frankly I'm not gonna dismiss that as an option at this point.

Okay - I don't disagree. Call his bluff.

Because I do think he's full of shit.

Buuuuuut - what if he's not? I think those are the scenarios we're playing through at this point. Hold him to week 8, let him reduce his PYS to a point where you can tag/trade him next year and then hope he goes scorched earth in the post-season?

Let him report when he wants to and play it out. About the only option at this point. I'm assuming Veach has already put forth his best and final offer and if Jones wants to conduct business this way, so be it.

No, I'd play out the string and let him walk at this point.

And realize Veach and company ****ed up here by waiting to do the deal and not trading him earlier. Maybe they got played and didn't really have an idea what was coming, but that's why you get paid the big bucks to figure this out. You want props for the Tyreek thing, well, you should have had this figured out.

Honestly?

I'd call Pat and Trav and tell them "Hey, you know your legacy and such and wanting to go back to back? Yeah, here's what we've offered, here's the deal".

I can't imagine they're all too excited about the situation.

This is about the only play I see.

Sure, if someone wants to offer 2 1's...**** I'd take that and tell my fanbase "we've won 2 SB's in 4 years, we need a little rope here this caught us offguard".

I'd probably opt more towards paying him, hoping I get a bit lucky and he plays well and I end up winning another SB or two.

LMAO What's with the defeatist bullshit. We were an offsides away from going to a Super Bowl with a FAR worse defense even with Jones in the fold.

We also led the league in sacks that year and the AFC wasn't exactly what it is now.

And FFS, even worse case scenario Jones just plays out from midseason on, unless you're scared he's actually dumb enough to dog it or fake an injury and completely tank his earning potential

That's kindof an unwritten rule, though.

A) Players don't ask about that sort of thing.

B) Players don't pressure their teammates about it either.

I'm sure Pat and Travis are well aware of what's going on here. And players ALL want to see their teammates and fellow players get paid. They can add - they see where the pinch points are.

I don't think any of that is necessary.

Reading this thread a couple hours ago, I wanted to rename it The Chris Jones GDT.

This team is gong to be just fine, with, or without Jones.
They can't overpay the guy and screw their future for the next several years.

If only it were that simple.

Unless Jones changed his mind or intentionally misled them.

Jesus, are you Soren Petro?

You do realize worst case scenario should've been Jones plays out the 2023 season and we part friends, right? Blaming Veach for not having the foresight Jones and his agent would be reeruned enough to actually hold out given the current CBA seems a bit foolish IMO.

100% this.

I love Jones but it’s Chiefs first baby. We WILL be fine either way.

Probably so.

But even then...if I weren't going to meet what he wanted, I'd have figured coming off a Sb win I'd have the most amount of rope I'm ever gonna have and I'd have struck while the iron is hot and went the Tyreek route.

Eh - they may not be fine without Chris Jones.

I mean they'll be a playoff team, but that's not the target.

This team is a LOT worse without him occupying that attention in the middle

I don't know if it's the Tyreek thing or what....but it's really surprised me how many here think this is a SB type team without Jones in the middle.

A tag and trade in 24 is viable too. There actually wasn't really a reason to trade him this offseason, even if he is being completely bullheaded at the negotiating table.

I don't think he's gonna be a DPOY candidate at age 31.

How many big 3rd contracts for DL have worked out? I would guess very few

LMAO Because it is? We probably wouldn't be the odds on favorite anymore, no, but to act like we'd just drop out of contention altogether is ****ing ridiculous.

At this point, I'm not worried about it. Does Jones make the defense better, sure, but he's not the only piece of the puzzle. There is only one player that would be a game changer, if he went down and we all know who that is.

That 33.5 million dollar anvil for the tag during FA is gonna be tough though.

Yeah...no.

I don't think anyone's saying it's EASIER without Chris Jones, but lots of teams have won Super Bowls without Chris Jones.

I think we'd all rather try it WITH him than without.

Not if he holds out until week 8?

Taking away the teams best defensive player in a tight, difficult conference is going to make this team worse.

Margins are already pretty thin in the AFC.

Yeah. Honestly if he wants to hold out until midseason he's doing us a pretty nice solid. Keeps him fresh for the playoff push and makes the tag and trade route in 202 much more viable.

Yeah, I don't think anyone would argue that it certainly makes things more difficult.

If he sits out to week 8, his PYS will fall substantially and the tag would probably end up being just the average of the top guys. In all this craziness... this could actually be a bit of a blessing in disguise.

He doesn't play till week 8, that's 7 weeks of no payment It'd save us about.... 8.2M from what I see? His hit on the tag and trade at that point probably drop to the average of the top 5 guys which would be around 24.7M next year....

This actually could work. It would also provide us 8.2M counting to rollover cap to next season.

And when he returns, there is no incentive in him not busting his ass to earn a new contract.

Then we have more availability to tag and trade.

Fun Conspiracy Idea: This is the ULTIMATE Burt Vatch 4-D Chess Move.

But this is not a good look for Jonesy.

Hope its a lot of smoke and no fire.

Well at this point, it's up to Jones and he is under contract for this year. If I'm the Chiefs, I cover my bases and plan for the worst case scenario. I think Jones is FOS on the week 8 song and dance. If he's serious, they have to have a plan B in place and have some kind of an idea how to handle it.

These are good points.

I still think the most likely scenario is he reports before Game 1. Probably doesn’t play until Week 3 in that scenario.

Next most likely is a prolonged holdout that sees him reporting around midseason.

Either of those ends with him being moved next year. I would think he would want to avoid a scenario where his game checks are withheld, as I think we determined that might affect his tag number, right? And he doesn’t want to lose any bargaining power with that.

Least likely is he’s traded now/in-season. But good point that cap space won’t be quite as good an issue. You’d need a team that thinks it needs a push over the top to win now.

Saints?
Browns?
Cowboys?
Panthers?
Lions?

Unless the owners of the Browns or Cowboys take over and guide the wheel (or the Panthers, I guess, for that matter), just practically impossible to believe could happen.

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For those catching up

How confident are you that Karlaftis is an immediate 10+ sack guy and Uzi 6-8.

Because without those 15 sacks and more critically, without the pressures and the double-teams, this DL is in trouble.

Y'all really don't remember how many games were nip/tuck right until the 4th quarter last year? Again, we don't beat Cincy without him. We don't beat Philly without him.

How's that not 'a game changer' if we don't have him?

This isn't just some swinging dick linebacker. This was probably the 3rd most impactful defensive player in football last season. He was THAT ****ing good.

It's really REALLY weird to me that folks are going to hand-waive that. Because as 'only one piece of the puzzle' but playing at an insanely high level, this defense was still only okay most of the season in 2022. Take him out of that equation and 'only okay' may be a pleasant memory.

Take him out and you're back to trying to outscore teams and hoping they make a mistake or you win a coin toss. That didn't work in '18 and wouldn't have worked even in '19 had the AFC not been a bucket of dicks that year.

We need the D to complement the O and Jones is the most critical component we have to that.

So I'm not gonna pretend like he doesn't matter. He does - in a big way.

But he's evidently lost his mind.

Did you know that DeShaun Watson has a $64 million cap hit each season from 24-26?

The Browns couldn't give him a new deal if they wanted to. They were absolutely a team I thought of (because sweet fancy moses, Jones and Garrett on the same DL?) but I don't see any way they can pay him.

What a catastrophically ****ing reeruned contract that guy has. I mean it just complete defies all reason. And he ain't even that good!

Huh? Who's hand waving it? Literally everyone here acknowledged that would make things harder. But again, he'd still be playing in the most important games even if he does hold out until mid season and if he actually is dumb enough to go that route he's doing the team a massive favor in salary cap ramifications.

So what exactly is this hand wringing about, again?

The guy who said "we'll be fine with him or without him..."

Yeah, I'd say that's hand-waiving it a bit, no?

Yeah, the D would be way different if there is no Jones. I honestly think they'd have to look at using an odd-man front to try to make that work without him. Karlaftis and Omenihu are stout enough to be 34 E, but NT gets dicey if you're relying on Danny Shelton and Nnadi and Coburn.

It wouldn't spell the end of them being a Super Bowl contender, to me. They'd be one. But they'd go from being a favorite to just another team in the mix.

It's hard to believe he and his agent are far enough off the reservation to actually sit out that much of the season or the whole season. So I can't imagine that happening. It basically ended his boy Lev Bell's career (though he did get one good payday out of it, it wasn't what he was offered).

Yes, he has lost his freaking mind and I have a feeling he is getting really really bad advise from his agent. Bottom line, there is nothing we, or the team can do about it right now. The exception would be to pay him his price of 30-32M a year, or whatever his is asking for. If we do that, it would screw us for years to come. options are rather limited at this point.

Makes last season all that more amazing. He would of likely held out this season anyway. Fresh of an unlikely championship because of so many rookies. Desperation gone after winning 2 out of 3 SBs in 4 years. It's really dream come true stuff as it stands