If they keep trotting him out for punt duties, his confidence will be crushed before he ever gets a real shot at receiver

Toub needs a swift kick in the ass

He was talking about Beckham not Brown.

I hope like hell we don't have another Sylvester Morris or Snoop Minnis on our hands.

I don't think so but there is a tiny nugget on my brain from past damage as a Chiefs fan

We also set the bar unrealistically high for this guy.

See, this is why people think you're a Skyye Moore hater. Most of your arguments in this thread are fairly solid but with a slight bit of twisting the facts to fit your narrative. Played in games? What about an entire extra year of studying the offense and practicing in it? Are we just going to completely discount that?

And for the record, I think Moore has been a disappointment. And sure, I think the Chiefs expected a little more out of him at this point. To be honest, when I watched his college highlights after the Chiefs drafted him, he didn't really jump out at me that much.

But I figured that I don't watch a lot of college football and add to that that everyone here as well as several tv commentators were praising the pick so it must be a good one. I just figured that people that may know more about football were high on this pick so I might was well get on board, too.

I will say that if you're criticizing the Chiefs for making that pick at that spot well then you had better start criticizing a lot of people. If I recall correctly, there were a lot of people at the time that thought it was a good pick. We also have to consider that perhaps they felt that Skyye was a better fit than a guy like Pickens?

This last part is not directed at you, necessarily, but Chiefs fans need to be patient. I am willing admit that this guy could have a limited ceiling. But Chiefs fans need to recognize that the team and many other so called experts thought that he could also turn into a very good player. And if that happens then we will all be happy. I saw someone in this thread already comparing him to Breeland Speaks. Let's pump the brakes on that one, shall we.

Sounds like a great week for Skyy Moore to have a big game.

I'm pretty sure that experiment is over. In case you didn't notice, Hardman was the PR against the Titans and Toney was the PR this past game.

And this is why I hated when people started referring to Orlando Brown as OBJ. There was already one OBJ in the league. :cuss:

He didn't play in this offense. He didn't study it. He had some familiarity with the terminology due to Kafka being their OC this season, but he wasn't their OC last season.

And by the same token, Toney didn't have a full camp with this team - Moore did. He didn't have 7 weeks of games and practice with this team and this quarterback. Moore did.

There's no reasonable basis to conclude that Toney SHOULD be more 'game ready' than Moore in this offense - unless it's just a straight up talent disparity.

Morris wasn't bad pre knee injury

He’ll be fine… Some players develop at different rates.. Didn’t help he as forced into a SP role he wasn’t comfortable with.. We have a wealth of talent at the WR position… SFC..

Seems to have worked for Tua.

I hope he puts that guaranteed 2.8M away somewhere because he's gonna need it.

Taking the conversation back to the Skyy thread…

The Giants offense is ran by Kafka, that has not only exclusively coached under Andy, but also was drafted by Andy and played for Andy.

Yeah, I’d say Toney had a slight advantage (in understanding route concepts, play design, sight adjustments, reading NFL defenses, etc) over a guy coming out of a small school.

The plays called don’t need to be the same for the offense to be. Obviously Mahomes > Jones by a massive amount.

He was also hurt pretty much the entire time Kafka was running the offense.

So studying a playbook that might have some similar terminology to OUR playbook (but probably not much beyond that given that the Giants are a clear run 1st football team) is comparable to spending an entire camp and several games immersed in our system with our playbook and running our installs?

Oh, and Kafka 'runs the Giants offense' is a bridge too far in its own right. There's no way Dabol has just taken his hands off the wheel after being the OC for the Bills and having Josh Allen on his resume.

The Giants offense is designed by and RAN by Brian Daboll, you know, the career OC who's claim to fame was the Bills offense.

Kafka calls the plays.

It's like saying Reid's offense is RAN by EB. Get out of here with that.

It's Daboll's offense with some Kafka wrinkles and terminology. That's it. This is Daboll's offense. There's probably a **** load more Bills shit in there than Chiefs.

You're out of your mind if you think Daboll just handed the keys over our old QB coach who's never so much as called plays, let alone design an entire scheme.

You guys are making way, way, waaaay too much out of the Kafka connection.

And Toney played in what, 2 games in that system as it is? And in those two games he barely saw any snaps.

So YES, Moore has had much more experience in THIS offense than Toney. That's just a fact.

The point I’m failing to make is that the fair way to compare Toney (or Pickens) and Skyy isn’t current day but once they’ve had an equal chance to acclimate to the NFL game.

I think Toney is *by a considerable margin* a far more talented player, but if you were to judge NFL WRs based on their first 10 NFL games, you’d see a lot of problems.

"He's a smart kid"

"Yeah we had heard he was smart"

"He's a fast learner"

"He gets to the facility before Mahomes"

"Football comes natural to him"

HELLO DUDES. They're straight up telling you. Straight up telling you what's up. They can't stop gushing.

Are they gushing over Moore like that? You think they wouldn't if they could?

Moore, i think, will be fine.

But JFC stop with the excuses.

We understand your stance.

That he's not an elite caliber player, like the rookies we see every year come in and make a splash.

Hey man, we agree. That's we argued for a guy like Pickens who....you know...came in and made a splash. A guy who's showing early signs of being a legit playmaker.

"I like Toney more by a considerable margin" does not favor your stance here, my dude.

I'm just thinking the game hasn't slowed down for him yet. Small school kid, first year....Toney big school and I know he had injury issues but dude is fast with nfl experience and 2 off-seasons. Hoping that's all and Moore will start having a positive impact

Ya'll: "Hey guys, Moore's a small school prospect who's not ready to contribute and will need a season or two to develop into our 3rd or 4th receiving option as I don't view him to have the elite traits like a Toney and other rookie WR's"

US: "NO SHIT"

Pretty much.

Maybe don't take guys like that in the 2nd round would be my answer.

Yeah, the clone part was overstepping and devalues the rest of the information I put in there.

Let me put it a different way.

Toney had 4 seasons in the SEC and 1.5 years in the NFL before arriving in KC.

Skyy has had 3 years in the MAC, 1 offseason and 10 games adjusting to the NFL game. In a system known for taking time to pick up.

I think Skyy is going to have a game in the near future where he catches 5-6 balls for 75 and a TD and then is trusted more and more by Pat and by playoffs is a guy getting a lot more playing time.

I think them having him split time/focus on returns while also learning g Andy’s offense was a mistake that may have delayed his development…but not completely stopped it.

I originally anticipated it taking 8-10 weeks to get him involved in the offense and now think that realistic timeline should be 12-14.

And, yes…I still think his ceiling is Wes Welker (that also split time early in his career splitting time between WR and PR for Amos I before being traded to NE.

Be patient.

They did the opposite with Mecole Hardman - big school, athletic freak, limited repertoire as a WR - and until this year, people were actually wishing the team would cut him.

Maybe it's a Chiefs thing and not a player thing. :shrug:

I’m pretty sure we didn’t hear those things about Moore in training camp but I could be mistaken.

ROFL

Did you forget where you are?

That’s exactly where guys like like should be taken.

Mahomes spent more time pumping Justin Watson's tires than Skyy Moore's...

SEC is far superior in that regards. You play in the SEC you are facing future pros every game.

Good point.

No, that's where guys with polish OR elite tools should be taken. Guys with both should be taken in the first.

Guys with neither are 3rd rounders or later.

And nobody knows if Pickens character concerns would have shown up here already if he wasn’t able to pick up the offense and get on the field as fast as he has in Pittsburgh.

Or if his character concerns played a part in the team trading Claypool.

And every year i said those people were dumb. Hardman has always had a special skill set and the Chiefs utilized it.

I'm not saying you're trying to compare the two here, but there is no comparison to be had between Hardman and Moore's rookie years. That ship has sailed.

We didn't. Sorry i shoulda clarified, they're saying those things about Toney and we never heard a peep like that about Moore.

Maybe a little bit.

And I get it. I had Sam Williams in about every mock I ran this last offseason.

I just think we need to be patient and see how things play out more than a couple months on the debate between Pickens snd Skyy because (at least in my eyes) it’s not as clear cut as DK/Hardman.

One of the top arguments for him at the time was that we was a savvy, polished route runner.

We're at the point now where people are saying "his thing" really isn't "his thing".

Guys that only dropped 4 passes in 3 years?
Guys with elite level combine timing for short area stuff this offense requires?
Guys that break tackles like crazy and have RB skills?

Those kinds of guys?

Both sides are technically correct.

Moore hasn't met expectations.

It's way too early to declare anything about him.

Both can be, and are, true.

Immediate returns are always better than not. Always. That's not even debatable.

Now that doesn't mean Skyy CAN'T develop, but in terms of their development, Pickens and so forth are further ahead, therefore their outlook is going to be greater.

The Steelers will be going into next season building upon what Pickens has already done. They know what they have at the very least. That's the benefit of a player producing in his 1st year.

The Chiefs will be going into next season and we still won't have any idea if Moore is going to see the field much or not.

So no, the fact that he can't get on the field is ALREADY a loss when trying to compare him to others in his class.

One trait - one.

He had a great 10 yard split. Meanwhile his 3-come time was ass and his shuttle only nominally better.

Y'all spent so much time convincing yourselves of things that simply weren't true and now you're left undercutting your own argument. The fact that he was a small school kid is the ONLY reason he was dusting DBs on quick hitters and breaking tackles.

Suddenly quality of competition is an excuse for him when it wasn't being considered by many of you at ALL when he was being touted pre-draft. Hell, you're ignoring it even now when it suits your purposes.

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I don’t think that’s fair.

In his second and third year in college, he ran super precise routes in a simple offense.

This offense at this level requires far more precise ability to not only run routes, but to change your route, cut it more shallow, adjust the flex to go more upfield, etc.

Stuff Skyy never saw in college.

He’s out there thinking a lot and not playing fast or crisp…but I think that will come in time.

I’ll never understand them putting so much on his plate early on by being the primary punt returner and learning every WR position snd all the nuances that come with it.

I’m just glad they pulled the plug on that so the kid can focus

And that. Is why. You don't. Take him. In the 2nd round.

I think we are both arguing from a place of confirmation bias.

If Skyy finishes this year strong and gives us a solid slot option the next 3 years, a mid 2 is a perfect utilization of resources and will earn a sizable second contract.

I also dislike the "Punt returning is too much on his plate" argument.

How in the world is returning punts too much on his plate? All he has too do is catch the goddamn ball. It's not like he's spending hours in the film room studying punt coverages every week.

They had him returning punts because it's a cheap way to get him involved with the team. It was meant to be a benefit to help his growth. To get him on the field.

I don't know where that argument came from, but damn it's a sucky one.

It's not like he's missing snaps being a punt returner.

He's not missing valuable lessons on the sideline watching other WR's run routes.

And it's not like he's a top 4 WR in this offense and taking first team reps, so WTF else does he have to do?

Let that argument die in a fire too pls.

Shit dudes, the Chiefs can't put any LESS on his plate than they already do.

These are going to be fun to read back through in a year or 2.

He could be a contributor in a year or two and it still won't have changed anything that was said here today.

'Solid slot production 2-3 years into his rookie deal' comes from the late 2nd and 3rd days of the draft every single year.

It's a fine salvaging of a 2nd rounder. It most assuredly is not a reasonable starting point for one.

6th on the depth chart and one of the only clear route concepts we've seen dialed up especially to get him the ball in space yielded an INT when he messed up the 2nd route you learn in high school.

Maybe ball boy is more his speed?

I'll concede that point. But I do think there is definitely something to BossChief's argument that Moore came from a small conference playing against lesser talent while Toney was playing against a lot of NFL talent in the SEC. Surely, that has to make a big difference when it comes to adjusting to the NFL. Add to that the fact that different players adjust to it at different rates and this could be what is going on here.

Look, neither of us knows whether or not he will amount to anything in the NFL. I just think it's a little premature to write him off as a bust, which seems to be what some folks are doing. If, in 2 years he has not become much of a receiver in the NFL then I'll say the doubters were correct. At this point, I'd guess that he's not going to be anything special but not a bust, either. Just my .02.

In a year or two, if he develops, that won't magically change the fact that he's behind his peers (draft slot) in his development.

I hope it doesn’t end up like MEH. I still have hope the kid can actually contribute to the team in the future but I’m having doubts.

I wasn’t saying it would take him that long, at all. Quite the contrary. I think that the game is going to slow down for him in the next 2-3 weeks and come playoff time will have a contributing role in the offense that gets him the ball 3-4 times a game. I expect next year for those catches to go up to 4-6 per game and to have sone star type games mixed in.

Year 3, I think he’s a guy that gets more action and will get 1,000 yards receiving and another 200-300 rushing.

I’m saying it will be fun reading back to see which side of the debate flushes out on the winning side, not that it will take that long to come to fruition.

Yup

He might get his shot to perform on Sunday. Might be 3 Chief receivers missing the Chargers game. I hope Moore is able to step up and be a contributor.

I think this will be his chance to earn trust in the coaches and more importantly Pat.

What 3 WRs will be missing the Chargers game?

MVS was just sick
Juju is in protocol

Did I miss anything?

3?

Hardman, Ju Ju, and.....???

What do you see that makes you think this breakout moment is coming this season? Not being an ass, just trying to see things from your perspective.

MVS is not practicing due to “illness”

MVS missed practice today with an illness.

For a lot of rookies with a big jump from college to pros this is the time of year where it starts to slow down for them. With opportunities there with Hardman limited and likely out at the same time as Juju likely being out, I think the kid makes the most of his opportunities and likely feels he “owes the team” after 2-3 costly mistakes.

CP hates it when players not named Patrick Mahomes have to develop. They hated it with Eric Fisher, they hated it with Derrick Johnson. Hell I remember people here who thought Travis Kelce wasn’t gonna be anything when he got injured as a rookie.

It’s not a surprise that they expect the same for Skyy.

Dear Skyy Moore,

Please start producing already so that these guys can shut the **** up.

Your Truly,
htismaqe

Hardman is also missing practice. All 3 of them might be missing on Sunday.

Need the defense to play great and hope that the likes of Toney/Moore/Watson can step up big time. I'm sure the Chargers will double team Kelce on every play. Maybe KC can get a solid run game going and some RB pass plays as well.

There's a difference between a player developing and a player who's biggest contributions have been contributing to turnovers and losses.

We all hope Skye can turn it around but it doesn't change the fact that up to now, he has shown absolutely nothing to show that he will this season. And when a player who has been on a team for 2 weeks looks like a MUCH better contributor, you kind of lose the "the offense is too complicated to expect anything year 1" argument.

Amen.

I defended literally every single one of those guys well before they broke out.

You're painting with an awfully broad brush to avoid taking an argument head on and addressing it on the merits.

Guess that's probably the best lever to pull in defense of Moore at this point, though.

Well, there isn't a better week for Skyy to show what he's got than this week. With JJSS likely out, and with Hardman's status up in the air and MVS being sick, he's certainly getting 1st team reps in practice all week.

Even if MVS and Hardman play (and i expect MVS will), the Chiefs will likely still be managing their snaps, which should mean more snaps for Moore.

He may not have a better a opportunity this season to showcase what he's got than on Sunday.

Pretty much. Skyy should be able to show out some in this game, if JJSS/MVS/Hardman don't play, or if even just one of those guys doesn't play.

You better Belize it!

He also knows we need him to step up this week.

I’ll be disappointed if he doesn’t.

It’s going to be okay guys. I dropped skky last week in one of my fantasy leagues, so he will more than likely ball out!!

I’d be surprised if Juju or Mecole plays. That may even go for the next 2 weeks.

Someone with All-22 access, please cut up a compilation of every play Skyy Moore has run this year already. We need to put to bed this bullshit once and for all.

On the Toney YAC reverse play Skyy was wide open further downfield. Surprised bc Patrick usually goes downfield but this one was clearly designed specifically for Toney as it was a quick release.

Same drive. Right as the ball is thrown Skyy is peeling wide open. Cisco is about 7 yards from him. The safety at the 13 was watching Kelce on the bottom.

Pocket collapsed too quickly so Patrick wisely took the checkdown to McKinnon.

But again Skyy was open.

Wait, the Planet is thrashing him? There are tons of all 22 video out there showing him getting open.

He’s getting open on plays. Not all of them but quite a few. He just isn’t getting specific play designs. He also isn’t Kelce, who Patrick looks for a lot