LOL, this is another situation where people want to see something that isn't there.

People were saying that Karlaftis was going to finish with 8-10 sacks as a rookie 1st round pick with Chris Jones on his side that's great. With the chances he's had with said snaps and win rate he's shelling out mid round production in comparison to a 1st round pick.

So people having unrealistic expectations is somehow a knock on Karlaftis?

He's shelling out mid round production, but he's one of those most productive rookie edge rushers in a class loaded with them?

You are being nonsensical.

You're forgetting the part where Chris Jones is playing with him too. Yes, mid round production with the chances he's had.

Chris Jones doesn't even line up next to him most of the time. Karlaftis has very little help where it would really count for him which is at WDE.

Everybody complains about how bad our DL and in particular our DEs are but Karlaftis is also somehow supposed to produce more because of the talent around him? You can't have it both ways.

Absolutely ****ing reeruned.

Rose colored excuses, for medial production when an Elite player is being doubled and triple teamed.

At least you admit that Karlaftis should have no expectations at all because it's unrealistic to have any for a 1st round pick.

George is going to finish the regular season strong against mainly division opponents (in college he was a beast against other big10 teams) and I won’t be shocked one bit if he needs the year with 8 sacks…the same total Tamba ended his rookie year with and he had Jared Allen flushing QBs towards him.

Hopefully we add a genuinely good edge guy on the other side so he can finish this pass rush.

Frank Clark has been as disappointing as Orlando Brown has been. At least to me.

If you think Karlaftis was going to show more than he has then you don't know football. Rarely do back half of the 1st rd dline players put up better sack/pressure numbers than Karlaftis so far.

If Karlaftis' win rate is mid round production level, let's see his win rate in comparison to the rest of his peers....

Because IIRC, it's also near the top of this year's draft class.

You're either reeruned or completely disingenuous if this is your takeaway.

Also, pointing out the hypocrisy of complaining about the lack of talent on the DL while simultaneously trying to say that Karlaftis should be playing better due to the talent around him is not "rose colored excuses", it's just the truth.

Do you understand the term “pass rush win rate”?

Then why isn't he finishing plays while QBs just run away from him since he's a step too late or slow. As I said Sam Williams was available and has had more of an impact with less snaps playing for the Cowboys

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Rookie pass rush win rate leaders:<br><br>Kayvon Thibodeaux 14.5%<br>Arnold Ebiketie 12.6%<br>George Karlaftis 12.5%<br>Aidan Hutchinson 11.1%<br>Travon Walker 9.2% <a href="https://t.co/MIi4epn9c2">pic.twitter.com/MIi4epn9c2</a></p>&mdash; NFL Rookie Watch (@NFLRookieWatxh) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLRookieWatxh/status/1597331345910685696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 28, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Clearly "mid round" level win rate!

That's a polite description of both guys, lol

Karlaftis is half a sack behind Williams, who plays on the most loaded front 7 in football, with the best pass rusher in the NFL.

And he has a higher win rate which you've now moved the goalpost to after Karlaftis had back to back games with a sack.

So what is it? Oochie Wally or One Mic?

Clearly!!!!!! Why hasn't he been finishing plays while Burrow,Carr, Allen,Lawrence, Herbert, have been casually running away from him making play that just kills momentum.

A lot of us wanted Sam Williams, but he had significant character concerns that a front office that took guys like Hunt and Hill passed on.

They obviously get that moving on from Tyrann meant they needed to replace leadership qualities to have a sustained strong locker room and always remember Veach does all of his homework and extra credit, so if he passes on a guy like Williams for a guy like Cook, he has a laundry list of reasons he made that decision, not just YouTube videos.

LOL, so Chris Jones is JAG now and Karlaftis has had double the chances.

JFC you talk about win rate when I point out that the guy has back to back games with a sack, now you're back to talking about finishing plays (aka sacks).

You're literally too stupid to argue with.

Weeks ago: Karlaftis isn't getting sacks!!! He can't finish plays!

*Karlaftis has back to back games with a sack*

Today: But he has a mid round level win rate.

*He's actually top 3 in the class in pass rush win rate*

Now: He's not getting sacks!

Strawman bullshit from a ****ing reerun. That post literally said nothing about Chris Jones.

Look in the mirror, if you don't see his limitations with the individuals who free him up to put him in a position to succeed then that's you. The whole season we've complained about the passrush outside of Chris Jones. Karlaftis was suppose to help with the draft capital put in.

You clearly don't even know what a strawman is.

You've moved the goalposts so many times on Karlaftis that I don't even know where they are any more.

Apparently, pressures, sacks, AND a high win rate amongst his peers ALL don't matter.

I think I've proven how dishonest and biased you are on this subject.

He’s only 21 and is a rookie. Big difference in competition from the Big 10 to the NFL. He’s definitely never seen a QB as big and fast and hard to tackle as Josh Allen.

These guys take some time dude. Playing DL is not any easy position. His pressure rate and sack production shows he’s a young kid with potential but needs time to refine his technique.

Tamba Hali has been my comp for him, and he had 8 sacks as a rookie with one fewer game. Having said that, Karlaftis is clearly getting pressures.

If you put prime Jared Allen opposite Karlaftis instead of Frank Clark, you think maybe they have a little better results? Because I do.

Karlaftis is literally among the best of his peers in every category.

It doesn't matter whether it's pressures, win rate, and now even sacks.

But somehow he's giving "mid round production".

I honestly can't believe that people are this ****ing stupid.

I think he works on his speed all offseason with Bobby Stroupe and ****s the whole league up next year

Love the fact he's only 21 years old. Hopefully he turns into a beast over time.

He's not just among the best of his peers in every category, he's younger than all of those guys too.

I understand that his preseason performance led to some ridiculous expectations which has led to some feeling "disappointed", but putting that aside, people aren't even being fair/reasonable at this point.

Tribal Warfare didn't even think he was an NFL DE. Expectations aren't an excuse for his dumbassery because he literally had none. He thought he sucked from day 1.

Now, he just wants to ignore every single statistical comparison to his peers while saying dumb shit like "mid round production".

Completely dishonest and absolutely reeruned.

Precisely my point.

edit: double post

The Frank Clark trade continues to screw the team. I really hope they can get that figured out soon. Gotta replace Frank with a legit pass rusher who doesn't kill the Chiefs' salary cap.

I have no idea how Chief Fan is evaluating him now. We've probably moved on to the magical "eye test" portion of the nonsense.

Exactly, guys with his skill set tend to start slow.

He's not going to win with athleticism and length.

He's going to win with strength, hand-fighting, technique, and savvy veteran moves. To think that a 21 year old rookie isn't going to get better at those things is just dumb. Especially a guy like Karlaftis who has as good of a work ethic and is as dedicated to his craft as anybody.

The problem is that the only options the Chiefs had for this year were old brokedicks that would've done just that.

Yeah that's why I said I reckon he's been a little better the last two weeks and that that wasn't solely shown by sacks, but he also seemed to be getting a little more pressure.

I wouldn't mind seeing them give Leo Chenal a chance as an edge rusher. Someone mentioned that Chenal's athletic score is basically identical to prime Von Miller, with very similar size as well. I know he wouldn't be some kind of world-beater in that role immediately, but perhaps over time he could turn into a legit player in that spot. He seems to have pretty unique athletic traits.

Which is fair.

Trust me dude, I know you aren't anything like Tribal Warfare and some of the others.

3 straight games with a sack. Got a coverage sack today that didn’t tell the whole story. Batted another pass, got some good pressures.

Also had a sack on the first play that went right through his arms. Feel like he’s had 4 or 5 sacks go bc of that this year. Here’s a pic of that play. Had both hands on Wilson.

he's going to end the season with at least 7 sacks

solid, solid draft pick

I thought about this thread the entire game

And Chief Fan was STILL whining about him in the GDT.

He played really solid today. Got a sack and I think a batted ball or 2.

As Veach rebuilds the DL, I think we can be pretty confident that this dude is a piece.

IDK, he brained Wilson today and beat Trent Williams to sack Jimmy in the end zone earlier this year. Consistency is his issue. He disappears a lot.

Exactly what you wanna see from him. He’s learning. Pass rusher moves will only get better next year and he is only 21 years old.

Also, he really is king of the almost sack. Should have had 3 in this game

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Encouraging rush here from Karlaftis. He is starting to get comfortable with more than the bull rush. He is building. My not seem like a big deal but it is a really good development. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/JacobsEyeInTheSky?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#JacobsEyeInTheSky</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> <a href="https://t.co/RKh4Br3BOR">pic.twitter.com/RKh4Br3BOR</a></p>&mdash; Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jacobs71/status/1602819426377777153?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 14, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

It’s crazy. The guy has a better win rate than the number two overall ****ing pick. Also don’t you all think he just MIGHT get a little stronger or grow into his body a tad more since he’s so young ?

yes, should have had 3 sacks

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The tackles don’t even get out of their stance before Karlaftis and Clark and back there. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/JacobsEyeInTheSky?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#JacobsEyeInTheSky</a> <a href="https://t.co/FiYAnIqnsD">pic.twitter.com/FiYAnIqnsD</a></p>&mdash; Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jacobs71/status/1602837258863878144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 14, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Well, it looks like Furious George played good enough in Sunday to shut Tribal up for a minute. That's a nice change for this thread.

chiefs might finish the season with 60 sacks

i have a feeling we finish STRONG defensively

1 coverage sack is something to cheer for/ sarcasm.


The guy is a roleplayer, if he wasn't we wouldn't be complaining about the passrush. It's more of the same with this guy.

No, 3 straight games with a sack is something to cheer for.

Of course, there's really nothing he can do short of being an All-Pro that would be good enough for you.

For somebody who was absolutely certain that Karlaftis was going to be a bust, it sure does seem like your expectations were as high as anybody's.

Never said he was a bust, 2 coverage sacks and 1 on a practice squad QB. That's roleplayer stuff.

The glare of your Rose colored glasses, are blinding you.

If Karlaftis wasn't then we wouldn't be complaining about the passrush.

Thought he had 2 good games before this and this was back to his earlier form, just a step too slow and really struggling to get pressure or impact the passing game. But sacks matter, even hustle ones, so that's been positive.

I still don't think it's happening for this guy until next year. It's a shame because a DL that has pressure pretty much exclusively from Jones isn't ideal.

I think he's coming along. I know a good offseason workout regiment will do him good. Work on speed and power and technique being coached up he can be a blue collar player but we will still need an edge rusher.

I cheer for any sack we can get. A coverage sacks means the defense did it's job and probably offense lost more yards on the sack.

Yep agreed on both points. Think an offseason where he gets a chance to breath, take stock, work on his plans, get S+D work in, will help. We know he'll work, but he probably honestly needs a rest as well.

The Greek Freak is tied for 3rd among top rookie pass rushers with 3.5. Houston had 4 and Hutchinson is beast with 7 and 9 knockdowns. So the Greek is doing just fine amongst his draft class. Hutchinson was the 2nd pick in the draft and the Lions hit a home run. No way could we have traded up for him but we did hit a home run with McDuffie. I think Blake Vermer just went with BAP that's an edge rusher and liked the Greeks motor.


I still like the pick and he is just going get better and help us win a few Championships.

It's not all about sacks. There's been a few times over the last couple games that the opposing QB had to unload because George was in his face. Going from a stand up OLB in a 3-4 to a fist in the dirt DE in a 4-3 takes some time to adjust. If he gets 6 sacks this season (not counting playoffs), I'd say that's pretty damn good. He's a hard working kid that will be just fine with some off season work.

This kid is a young rookie. He will get better. He’s every bit as good as Trent McDuffie IMO.

Will he ever lead the league in sacks?…. No

But coverage sacks are still sacks and better than the alternative.

I could never imagine someone complaining about a coverage sack :shake:

This is a pretty damn shitty spin even for you. You didn't use qualifiers for the other players when comparing him to other rookies before.

Just buck up man and admit he ain't as bad as you want him to be and move on.

You really are reeruned aren't you? Oh well Ill let you just keep making a fool of yourself, you obviously have no desire to admit you are talking out your ass.

When we see Patrick scrambling downfield for a long run or first down we should all recognize how valuable a "coverage sack" is.

This is the problem with saying a guy is going to suck with zero reason and then rooting for your own shitty opinion to come true.


I've been guilty of it myself and try not to do that. I thought Bolton was going to suck but the difference is I admitted it almost immediately instead of trying to hold on to my crap opinion.

That's the difference and it has to do with ego. Tribal are you so ****ing fragile you can't admit when you're wrong? Because you are.

So coverage sacks don’t count as sacks? Bruce Smith has the all time record for sacks. Should those be reevaluated to see which ones are coverage sacks and which ones weren’t? DE is not the easiest position to come into and make an immediate impact outside of being a generational talent (Von and Myles) or sheer luck (Crosby). It’s clear you don’t like Karlaftis which is why you say those supporting him are wearing rose colored glasses. What color glasses are you wearing as you are being hyper critical of him despite evidence showing he’s not bad and still improving?

I'll never understand the Chiefsfan urge to declare a rookie is 'trash' and then try to will it to be true.

Even picks I wasn't crazy about, I WANT to be wrong. Hell, I wasn't high on Karlaftis pre-draft.

There are some people on this board that really don't deserve this era of Chiefs. They deserve some Bill Kenney or Matt Cassel bullshit.

They still go into the record books the same. There are no asterisks.

Been looking for the Dick Vermeil quote from when Michael Strahan broke the sack record. Can't find the quote anywhere, though.
I remember him downplaying the fact that Strahan broke the record.... said something to the effect of, "Most of those were bags, not sacks."
Referring to many of his sacks as "coverage sacks".
Wish I could find the clip or a writeup with the quote..... point is, Vermeil wasn't as impressed with Strahan's pass rushing ability as he was with the Giants' secondary.

Especially with George it’s annoying. He started fb late, his college career happened during Covid. Including a shortened season. And he just turned 21 in April. Relax. I doubt he’s ever a top 5 guy, but if he gets to Hendrickson level, it’s a home run.

BTW. He leads the league in batted balls. Which isn’t exactly a flukey thing. And those can be as impactful as a sack

At the end of the day though Strahan is in the HOF regardless of how Vermeil felt about him as a pass rusher. Way too many stats in football are a result of events beyond just individual effort, especially QB stats.

Look, pass rushing at the NFL is a little like pitching at the major league level. Yeah, you've got your go-to fastball and a curve, and that works in the minors, but to be a great pitcher, you need a really good third pitch and maybe even a fourth.

So a Karlaftis gets drafted, and he's a big, strong kid who bullied guys in college, and maybe he's got heavy hands and little secondary move but he needed more than that to win in the NFL.

So earlier in the year, he was juuuuuust coming up short, not quite getting there. But there's clear improvement, and we're starting to see some stats to back that up. He's showing some different techniques, and he's getting pressures, batted balls, and now the sacks are starting to come.

So, you know, you can wish he was a speed rusher that just blows by OT's at the snap, but that'll never be his game. Expecting that is dumb, and hating the pick because he wasn't that is even dumber. Lots of great pass rushers that win primarily with power in the NFL. Karlaftis is getting better every week.

If anything, he needs to clean up the missed tackles, there were a few this week. Of course, the whole team checked out mid-way through the second quarter and luckily checked back IN just in time to close it out.

He's going to be a building block.

I'll bet Tribal Warfare goes to a McDonald's and complains to the staff, "I thought you guys were FAST food. The Burger King down the street had my food out to me at least a minute quicker."

Karlaftis literally barely missed two sacks where his get off was a major factor, not power or coverage.

Tribal is going to eat shit over the next month...hell probably Sunday.

He's been fine. He will never be the flashy 15 sack Von Miller type. He's way more Ryan Kerrigan 8 sack ceiling type and that's ok

Why can't he be the Tamba Hali 14.5 sack guy

I bet he gets 8 in the regular season as a rookie. I see no reason he can't be a perennial 10 sack guy moving forward.

There just aren’t many “10 per year write it down” sack guys in the league.

If he’s a 6-8 guy, that’s great

I tried to look this up (not because I didn't believe you but I wanted to see something in writing before I posted my thoughts) and the only thing I could find was something called "TeamRankings.com" where it has only Simmons of the Titans as a lineman with one more pass defended (that's the only category for tipped passes) than George but I'm not sure if their numbers are totally up to date.

Point is, he is either first or second by 1 for defensive linemen in deflecting passes, which is huge. Chiefs fans should know this better than anyone since you'll never convince me we win the SB without the three passes batted down by CJ. Karlaftis was a good to becoming great pick and will only get better with time. Not sure why anyone would knock him at this stage.

That offensive line either hates Wilson or has no clue what a snap count is.

That is not a particularly good look for Karlaftis, imo. That's just another prime example of how ****ing awful our ability to tackle is. Unblocked, ignored by the RB, behind Russell, not even close to making enough contact to bring him down and all Russell had to do was tuck his head and take a half step forward.

4 total pressures against the Donks. He’s approaching 40 overall.

The difference between him and Hutchinson is that George has had his hands on QB’s and just hasn’t finished the job even though it still ruins most of those plays.

He should have at least 6 sacks.

he's a ****ing rookie

he's still figuring out the speed of the game

give it time