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Pitt Gorilla 09-29-2011 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy (Post 7953872)
True, but each passing moment that we don't hear "We are a faithful member of the Big XII conference" or some such drivel is a moment closer we are to leaving.

Oh, I think we are as good as gone. BUT, somebody could still **** it up.

Dr. Gigglepants 09-29-2011 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla (Post 7953982)
Oh, I think we are as good as gone. BUT, somebody could still **** it up.

Is the consensus that we will make an announcement middle of next week still? I'm starting to feel like MU is finally taking control of the wheel of their car, but the week delay makes me nervous. Are we going to take to the streets lighting things on fire if we wait all this time, and on Wednesday of next week come out with the flowery language about how much we love and are dedicated to the Big XII?

beer bacon 09-29-2011 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Gigglepants (Post 7954001)
Is the consensus that we will make an announcement middle of next week still? I'm starting to feel like MU is finally taking control of the wheel of their car, but the week delay makes me nervous. Are we going to take to the streets lighting things on fire if we wait all this time, and on Wednesday of next week come out with the flowery language about how much we love and are dedicated to the Big XII?

Curators vote to give Deaton authority to explore conference realignment/expansion on Tuesday. They probably won't announce we're going to the SEC at at that time, but that is what it will mean.

mrbiggz 09-29-2011 09:53 PM

It sounds to me that Deaton put the Big12 on notice when he said at the press conference last week that his primary responsibility before anything is to MU. Then almost simultaneously the big12 announces publicly that the schools are requesting first and second tier rights to games while the UT's network is totally off negotiating table.

I'd be very surprised if we don't make an announcement to make a move to the SEC over the next few weeks.

eazyb81 09-30-2011 07:36 AM

LMAO, I doubt this article by Mellinger will be popular on here, but he's right.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/09/29...et-behind.html

Quote:

This is the time to get behind Missouri, Pinkel

SAM MELLINGER COMMENTARY


Maybe you don’t like Missouri. Maybe you root for the Jayhawks or went to Kansas State or some other school. Maybe you’re like a particularly intense friend of mine who considers the idea of cheering for the Tigers against anyone other than proven terrorists repulsive.

Maybe you should reconsider.

The Big 12’s best future — not its survival, but its best future — depends on how Mizzou’s showdown with Texas ends. Missouri’s beefs are all of our beefs. In other words, you should root for the Tigers.

No matter what the Southeastern Conference says officially or publicly, the league is very clearly holding a spot open for MU, and that leverage is the best hope for K-State since Bill Snyder’s return and for KU since Mario Chalmers’ jump shot.

We are a parochial city and a region divided by our rooting interests and backgrounds, but to paraphrase a line, right now we are all Mizzou fans.
And Gary Pinkel is our leader.

MU’s football coach calls the Big 12 infighting “sad” and “embarrassing,” points out that everyone knows the problems but nobody fixes them, and every word is true until he claims to be out of the loop.

Pinkel, whether intentionally or otherwise, has made himself the loop. With Texas A&M (and Nebraska) out, Missouri is third in the league’s power hierarchy. And after taking MU from the mess of Larry Smith to six consecutive bowl games, Pinkel is the school’s most important employee and recognized voice.

There is no whining in this, no stepping out of place. Pinkel is only telling people — publicly and otherwise — how he feels. You could say Pinkel is spending capital he’s built up from his success, except he’s actually building even more capital. Here’s a guy who answers questions honestly, using his influence to fight for his school.

Pinkel is uniquely positioned to speak on this, to put pressure on Texas to come closer to the middle on revenue sharing and the other contention points. Bill Self coaches the wrong sport, and Bill Snyder would sound too self-serving.

But Pinkel’s perspective is also KU’s and K-State’s, so in that way, he is the most public advocate for our region.

The league will survive with or without the Tigers, but the context of previous departures and premature statements of unity from others would position MU’s dropping out as the lowest moment yet.

Last summer’s departure of Nebraska and Colorado brought all the league’s problems to daylight. Texas A&M’s illustrated the scale. Missouri leaving would show that things will never change.

Mizzou is the Big 12’s last hope for positive change.

MU will and should do what’s best for the school. Pinkel appears convinced that means leaving for the SEC, and the Tigers are in a terrific position, but if everyone involved can remove emotion and ego they’ll see that the Big 12 can still be the best spot for all.

There would be no better path to the national championship than through a nine- or 10-school Big 12 without a league title game.

Missouri has won 40 games in four seasons in this conference, and it’s able to make a legitimate claim to being one of the nation’s top 20 programs without having to run the SEC gantlet.

Missouri could compete in the SEC, but it would have better access to the BCS and other major bowl games through the Big 12.

The conference’s year and a half of bickering in both backrooms and in public has to end. The buildup and the Pac-12’s thanks-but-no-thanks to Texas and Oklahoma puts everyone back at the table. We’ve seen this happen before, but never with the power brokers publicly rejected and without better options to hang over the heads of other schools.
This time it’s Missouri with the option, and it’s a good one.

People in Columbia are much less concerned about Texas making money from the Longhorn Network than taking a perceived recruiting advantage by showing high school games or highlights on it. Missouri cares less about Texas and Oklahoma making the rules than it does about knowing everyone will be around in 10 years.

Missouri can help ensure that, with real leverage that could convince Texas to agree to more equality throughout the league.

This is the best hope for Kansas City to maintain its best sports world. MU’s fight is Kansas City’s fight.

Besides, if you’re a KU or K-State fan and this saga doesn’t play out the way you hope, then those old feelings about Mizzou will come back quick enough.

kchero 09-30-2011 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eazyb81 (Post 7954461)
LMAO, I doubt this article by Mellinger will be popular on here, but he's right.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/09/29...et-behind.html

As a Mizzou fan, I would prefer to stay in the B12, but if these issues are not addressed then Mizzou (and everyone else) will have this problem in the B12 down the road and be in the same position that we all have been in for the past two years. Hopefully this appearance of defection to the SEC takes some notice in Dallas.

HolyHandgernade 09-30-2011 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eazyb81 (Post 7954461)
LMAO, I doubt this article by Mellinger will be popular on here, but he's right.

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/09/29...et-behind.html

Here's what I don't get about the article: he says we should be Tiger fans because MU is standing up for us, but doesn't list any of the issues that they are supposedly standing up for. What good fight are the Tigers fighting here? Maybe there are some, but all it looks like to me is that MU thinks it can get a better deal elsewhere, and as a KU, KSU or ISU fan, I'm supposed to say "you go boy!"? "Please leave so the conference takes another value hit so that we can potentially earn less in it."

Does that make sense to anyone?

Look, if MU wants to leave, more power to them. I just don't understand why I'm a fan of it. I haven't seen MU fans and their list of demands to "fix" the conference being opposed by Texas. All I see out of MU fans is a desire to get away from Texas. I can understand that, I just don't get why I'm a fan of that.

Pants 09-30-2011 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade (Post 7954506)
Here's what I don't get about the article: he says we should be Tiger fans because MU is standing up for us, but doesn't list any of the issues that they are supposedly standing up for. What good fight are the Tigers fighting here? Maybe there are some, but all it looks like to me is that MU thinks it can get a better deal elsewhere, and as a KU, KSU or ISU fan, I'm supposed to say "you go boy!"? "Please leave so the conference takes another value hit so that we can potentially earn less in it."

Does that make sense to anyone?

Look, if MU wants to leave, more power to them. I just don't understand why I'm a fan of it. I haven't seen MU fans and their list of demands to "fix" the conference being opposed by Texas. All I see out of MU fans is a desire to get away from Texas. I can understand that, I just don't get why I'm a fan of that.

Dude, it's well documented that Mellinger is a complete dumbass. I don't think he's written a good article in his whole professional life.

patteeu 09-30-2011 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HolyHandgernade (Post 7954506)
Here's what I don't get about the article: he says we should be Tiger fans because MU is standing up for us, but doesn't list any of the issues that they are supposedly standing up for. What good fight are the Tigers fighting here? Maybe there are some, but all it looks like to me is that MU thinks it can get a better deal elsewhere, and as a KU, KSU or ISU fan, I'm supposed to say "you go boy!"? "Please leave so the conference takes another value hit so that we can potentially earn less in it."

Does that make sense to anyone?

Look, if MU wants to leave, more power to them. I just don't understand why I'm a fan of it. I haven't seen MU fans and their list of demands to "fix" the conference being opposed by Texas. All I see out of MU fans is a desire to get away from Texas. I can understand that, I just don't get why I'm a fan of that.

I don't think you're reading the article right. Mellinger isn't telling you to root for MU to get the best deal they can by leaving the conference. He's telling you to root for them to get whatever concessions they think are necessary from Texas to convince them that staying is the better option. The assumption is clearly that whatever those concessions are (and you're right that he's not very specific about them), they're the same things that KU, KSU, and ISU want but don't have the leverage to demand.

I'm OK with going to another conference, but I'd much rather see Big 12 reform that makes staying put the better option. For example, if Texas agreed to transform the Longhorn Network into a Big12 network with all revenue shared equally (admittedly an unlikely prospect), that would be a huge incentive for Mizzou to re-commit to the Big 12 and an enormously stabilizing development, IMO.

Pants 09-30-2011 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 7954535)
I don't think you're reading the article right. Mellinger isn't telling you to root for MU to get the best deal they can by leaving the conference. He's telling you to root for them to get whatever concessions they think are necessary from Texas to convince them that staying is the better option. The assumption is clearly that whatever those concessions are (and you're right that he's not very specific about them), they're the same things that KU, KSU, and ISU want but don't have the leverage to demand.

I'm OK with going to another conference, but I'd much rather see Big 12 reform that makes staying put the better option. For example, if Texas agreed to transform the Longhorn Network into a Big12 network with all revenue shared equally (admittedly an unlikely prospect), that would be a huge incentive for Mizzou to re-commit to the Big 12 and an enormously stabilizing development, IMO.

I think HH just wants Mellinger to maybe tell us what those concessions are instead of pulling some random general statement out of his ass. Mellinger has no idea what Missouri is really thinking nor what they're trying to achieve.

Dr. Gigglepants 09-30-2011 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pants (Post 7954511)
Dude, it's well documented that Mellinger is a complete dumbass. I don't think he's written a good article in his whole professional life.

I agree to an extent. He had a point, just didn't convey it in a clear convincing matter. Or is this just a couple KU fans not wanting to admit that he is right, despite the poorly written article.

beer bacon 09-30-2011 08:36 AM

Why would Texas make any concessions? The conference isn't going to die if Mizzou leaves, and the rest of the schools are just happy to be here. Bevo just needs the Big 12 for another five or six years while they build the LHN.

OnTheWarpath15 09-30-2011 08:38 AM

Question for Mizzou fans:

Why in God's name do those of you that would "prefer to stay in the B12" feel that way?

patteeu 09-30-2011 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pants (Post 7954544)
I think HH just wants Mellinger to maybe tell us what those concessions are instead of pulling some random general statement out of his ass. Mellinger has no idea what Missouri is really thinking nor what they're trying to achieve.

I don't think you have to know what the specific concessions are to believe that they'd be good for the little sisters of the league. It would be nice to know them, but I think it's highly unlikely that Mizzou is trying to cut a deal that only benefits Mizzou and leaves the conference just as unstable as before.

patteeu 09-30-2011 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7954552)
Question for Mizzou fans:

Why in God's name do those of you that would "prefer to stay in the B12" feel that way?

"Prefer to stay in the B12" comes with a caveat. I'd only prefer to stay in the B12 if the reformed B12 is the better deal. Why in God's name would a Mizzou fan rather go to another conference if staying in the B12 is the better deal and how can they rationalize that?

The reason I would like to see the reformed B12 end up being the better deal is that I live in Kansas City and the city benefits from being in the heart of a conference that contains all the local major schools rather than on the edge of two different conferences and also because of the traditional rivalries.

Pants 09-30-2011 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 7954553)
I don't think you have to know what the specific concessions are to believe that they'd be good for the little sisters of the league. It would be nice to know them, but I think it's highly unlikely that Mizzou is trying to cut a deal that only benefits Mizzou and leaves the conference just as unstable as before.

Well, I don't know that Missouri is negotiating with Texas at all. Are they?

Dr. Gigglepants 09-30-2011 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7954552)
Question for Mizzou fans:

Why in God's name do those of you that would "prefer to stay in the B12" feel that way?

Probably because they feel we would disappear in the SEC, as opposed to the whopping 2 Big XII title games we've been to in the past 15 years (and how did each of those go?). Seriously, now that there is no Big XII title game, we have literally zero chance of ever winning a title. What are the odds that OU AND UT both have a down year, AND we don't shit the bed against a team we should have beaten at least once?

I don't see any difference between the conferences ad far as our performance. We're an average team in the Big XII and the SEC, and if anything I see Mizzou building a 50 foot wall around the State of Missouri as far as recruiting goes if we do make the move.

The only real difference between the conferences is one plays fair with all its members, one doesn't.

patteeu 09-30-2011 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pants (Post 7954564)
Well, I don't know that Missouri is negotiating with Texas at all. Are they?

That's the premise of Mellinger's article. I don't have personal knowledge of the negotiations, but you'd think Mizzou would be exploring all options, including the option of improving the B12 enough to make it worth sticking around.

DJ's left nut 09-30-2011 08:48 AM

Sorry, but Mellenger clearly still doesn't get it.

He was on the right track until he spun right off the rails with a line straight out of the Kevin Keitzmann handbook:

Quote:

There would be no better path to the national championship than through a nine- or 10-school Big 12 without a league title game.

Missouri has won 40 games in four seasons in this conference, and it’s able to make a legitimate claim to being one of the nation’s top 20 programs without having to run the SEC gantlet.

Missouri could compete in the SEC, but it would have better access to the BCS and other major bowl games through the Big 12.
Repeat after me: A 10 team XII is nothing more than a dead conference walking. Pledge media rights all you want - this conference will come apart the day after that 6 year period expires (if not before; UT and OU could pretty much deal with any penalty clause they wanted to if it came right down to it).

In the current landscape, you're growing or you're dying. There isn't stability in this conference, IMO. There won't be stability in this conference unless some serious pride is swallowed and leadership wakes the !@#$ up (I don't anticipate either).

If they scrap the entire set of by-laws and conference regulations, take the B1Gs and adopt them, add at least 3 more teams (at least one of which is BYU and only one of which is a city college) and sign long-term contracts (i.e. ten years) with completely cost-prohibitive poison pills, then maybe the conference can stay together, stablize and become a viable long-term home.

But I really don't see any of that happening. There is too much wounded pride in Norman and way too much ego in Austin.

And even if it did - I still think I'd want to jet. There's something to be said for running with the big dogs every week.

OnTheWarpath15 09-30-2011 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 7954562)
"Prefer to stay in the B12" comes with a caveat. I'd only prefer to stay in the B12 if the reformed B12 is the better deal. Why in God's name would a Mizzou fan rather go to another conference if staying in the B12 is the better deal and how can they rationalize that?

The reason I would like to see the reformed B12 end up being the better deal is that I live in Kansas City and the city benefits from being in the heart of a conference that contains all the local major schools rather than on the edge of two different conferences and also because of the traditional rivalries.

Thanks for your response.

But with all that said, do you (personally) think there's any chance that a reformed B12 is even likely?

Again, from the outside looking in, as long as the B12 exists, it's going to be X amount of teams being Texas' bitch. I don't see Texas giving a shit if Missouri leaves, they'll just invite some other suckers to take a shit deal and join the B12.

As I don't have a dog in the fight, I don't understand the loyalty to "rivalries." If one of my teams (Chiefs/Cardinals/Blues) were moved to a different division/conference, I really wouldn't give a shit.

patteeu 09-30-2011 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Gigglepants (Post 7954574)
Probably because they feel we would disappear in the SEC, as opposed to the whopping 2 Big XII title games we've been to in the past 15 years (and how did each of those go?). Seriously, now that there is no Big XII title game, we have literally zero chance of ever winning a title. What are the odds that OU AND UT both have a down year, AND we don't shit the bed against a team we should have beaten at least once?

I don't see any difference between the conferences ad far as our performance. We're an average team in the Big XII and the SEC, and if anything I see Mizzou building a 50 foot wall around the State of Missouri as far as recruiting goes if we do make the move.

The only real difference between the conferences is one plays fair with all its members, one doesn't.

Since you don't see any other real differences, which conference would you want to see Mizzou in if both conferences played fair with all of their members and why?

Mr. Plow 09-30-2011 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Gigglepants (Post 7954574)
Probably because they feel we would disappear in the SEC, as opposed to the whopping 2 Big XII title games we've been to in the past 15 years (and how did each of those go?). Seriously, now that there is no Big XII title game, we have literally zero chance of ever winning a title. What are the odds that OU AND UT both have a down year, AND we don't shit the bed against a team we should have beaten at least once?

I don't see any difference between the conferences ad far as our performance. We're an average team in the Big XII and the SEC, and if anything I see Mizzou building a 50 foot wall around the State of Missouri as far as recruiting goes if we do make the move.

The only real difference between the conferences is one plays fair with all its members, one doesn't.

Yeah, but assuming that they are going to try to get back to 12 - MU would dominate the "North" in football giving a Big 12 title game & possible BCS bowl game nearly every year.

You won't get that in the SEC.

dirk digler 09-30-2011 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 7954535)
I don't think you're reading the article right. Mellinger isn't telling you to root for MU to get the best deal they can by leaving the conference. He's telling you to root for them to get whatever concessions they think are necessary from Texas to convince them that staying is the better option. The assumption is clearly that whatever those concessions are (and you're right that he's not very specific about them), they're the same things that KU, KSU, and ISU want but don't have the leverage to demand.

I'm OK with going to another conference, but I'd much rather see Big 12 reform that makes staying put the better option. For example, if Texas agreed to transform the Longhorn Network into a Big12 network with all revenue shared equally (admittedly an unlikely prospect), that would be a huge incentive for Mizzou to re-commit to the Big 12 and an enormously stabilizing development, IMO.

You are spot on about Mellinger's article and I agree if everything was equal I think MU should stay in the Big 12. But we know that is not the case and I don't believe it ever will be with Texas running the show.

KChiefs1 09-30-2011 08:51 AM

Mizzou has to get out while they can! The Big 12 is doomed & who wants to bend over for Bevo all the time?

patteeu 09-30-2011 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7954580)
Thanks for your response.

But with all that said, do you (personally) think there's any chance that a reformed B12 is even likely?

Again, from the outside looking in, as long as the B12 exists, it's going to be X amount of teams being Texas' bitch. I don't see Texas giving a shit if Missouri leaves, they'll just invite some other suckers to take a shit deal and join the B12.

As I don't have a dog in the fight, I don't understand the loyalty to "rivalries." If one of my teams (Chiefs/Cardinals/Blues) were moved to a different division/conference, I really wouldn't give a shit.

I'd say that the odds are against the B12 reforming to the extent I'd like to see. I think it's possible that it will reform far enough that Mizzou decides to stay, either out of inertia and a sense of tradition or based on hopes of eventually getting into the B1G. But I think the most likely outcome is that it doesn't reform enough to keep Mizzou and Mizzou goes to the SEC.

dirk digler 09-30-2011 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Gigglepants (Post 7954574)
Probably because they feel we would disappear in the SEC, as opposed to the whopping 2 Big XII title games we've been to in the past 15 years (and how did each of those go?). Seriously, now that there is no Big XII title game, we have literally zero chance of ever winning a title. What are the odds that OU AND UT both have a down year, AND we don't shit the bed against a team we should have beaten at least once?

I don't see any difference between the conferences ad far as our performance. We're an average team in the Big XII and the SEC, and if anything I see Mizzou building a 50 foot wall around the State of Missouri as far as recruiting goes if we do make the move.

The only real difference between the conferences is one plays fair with all its members, one doesn't.

I think you are forgetting though that MU would have been in the 2007 NC game if it wasn't for the Big 12 title game.

DJ's left nut 09-30-2011 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7954580)
As I don't have a dog in the fight, I don't understand the loyalty to "rivalries." If one of my teams (Chiefs/Cardinals/Blues) were moved to a different division/conference, I really wouldn't give a shit.

Really?

I'd be bummed if the Chiefs left the Raiders and Broncos, especially if it were a lateral move.

And I'd be pissed if the Cardinals ended up in that glorified shithole of a softball league - the AL.

If all things are equal, I understand the 'rivalry' aspect of it. However, A) All things aren't equal and B) The rivalry element will never be dispositive. In college football, moving to the SEC w/ the history and tradition of the conference trumps the XII rivalries w/ Kansas and...well really only Kansas.

KChiefs1 09-30-2011 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7954580)
Again, from the outside looking in, as long as the B12 exists, it's going to be X amount of teams being Texas' bitch. I don't see Texas giving a shit if Missouri leaves, they'll just invite some other suckers to take a shit deal and join the B12.

Stated perfectly!

90% of MU fans see it the same way. Why doesn't everyone??????

Pants 09-30-2011 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7954580)
Again, from the outside looking in, as long as the B12 exists, it's going to be X amount of teams being Texas' bitch. I don't see Texas giving a shit if Missouri leaves, they'll just invite some other suckers to take a shit deal and join the B12.

Can you please describe this shit deal and tell us how it compares to the SEC deal MU would get by moving?

Dr. Gigglepants 09-30-2011 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 7954585)
Since you don't see any other real differences, which conference would you want to see Mizzou in if both conferences played fair with all of their members and why?

SEC

I understand the negative impact the move would have on Kansas City, I don't really buy that it would impact any local rivalries. Just agree to play KU every year as part of the non conf. schedule in both football and basketball and call it a day. I'd rather have only 1 loss to KU in bball every year anyway. Plus, you could make it towards the final week of non conf play, maybe during the New Year time period, maybe even have it neutral site every now and then. That sounds more fun than getting pounded twice a year in the conference schedule to me.

I would rather see teams like LSU, Bama, Tenn, FL, etc. come to Columbia and play football. That would be fun if you ask me. Plus the money and exposure for the school and program should be better. I don't actually know that last point after all the TV contracts get renegotiated and what not, but it seems highly likely.

OnTheWarpath15 09-30-2011 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 7954602)
Really?

I'd be bummed if the Chiefs left the Raiders and Broncos, especially if it were a lateral move.

And I'd be pissed if the Cardinals ended up in that glorified shithole of a softball league - the AL.

If all things are equal, I understand the 'rivalry' aspect of it. However, A) All things aren't equal and B) The rivalry element will never be dispositive. In college football, moving to the SEC w/ the history and tradition of the conference trumps the XII rivalries w/ Kansas and...well really only Kansas.

See, I don't give a shit. Never really have. Teams move, and build new rivalries. Personally, I think the concept of rivalries is a bit overrated.

We completely agree on Mizzou/SEC however. I know a lot of guys give DaKCManAP shit when he says the SEC is the best conference going, but he's 100% correct.

Unfortunately for you Tiggers, you'll probably **** this up and stay in a dying B12.

mikeyis4dcats. 09-30-2011 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy (Post 7952827)
There have been a couple of tweets today saying Deaton has resigned as president of the Big 12, but Gabe DeArmond just answered a tweet about it saying he has not heard anything about it.

the issue isn'treally football and basketball, it's all the non-revenue sports - baseball, lacrosse, soccer, volleyball, wbb, etc that would be costly to travel great distances.

Dr. Gigglepants 09-30-2011 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler (Post 7954599)
I think you are forgetting though that MU would have been in the 2007 NC game if it wasn't for the Big 12 title game.

And how would we get to the NC game with a regular season loss to OU, in a Big XII without a title game? If I'm interpreting your post correctly that is.

KChiefs1 09-30-2011 09:01 AM

MU would have to expand their stadium if they joined the SEC.

OnTheWarpath15 09-30-2011 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KChiefs1 (Post 7954628)
MU would have to expand their stadium if they joined the SEC.

Why?

They currently seat 71K, IIRC.

That's more than 4 current SEC schools.

dirk digler 09-30-2011 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Gigglepants (Post 7954627)
And how would we get to the NC game with a regular season loss to OU, in a Big XII without a title game? If I'm interpreting your post correctly that is.

They were ranked #1 in the BCS prior to the Title Game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_BCS_computer_rankings

KChiefs1 09-30-2011 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7954631)
Why?

They currently seat 71K, IIRC.

That's more than 4 current SEC schools.

Demand for tickets would skyrocket.

KChiefs1 09-30-2011 09:05 AM

Per Twitter: DaveSittler Source: Neinas "working hard at re-recruiting Mizzou and talking them down off the ledge" and away from jumping to SEC.

DaKCMan AP 09-30-2011 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Plow (Post 7954587)
Yeah, but assuming that they are going to try to get back to 12 - MU would dominate the "North" in football giving a Big 12 title game & possible BCS bowl game nearly every year.

You won't get that in the SEC.

I wouldn't eliminate the possibility that if the Big XII does expand back to 12 teams that they don't pull a Big X and put OU in the North and UT in the South creating the possibility of those two meeting in the Big XII Championship Game.

eazyb81 09-30-2011 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7954552)
Question for Mizzou fans:

Why in God's name do those of you that would "prefer to stay in the B12" feel that way?

Major Kansas City bias towards the small minority of Mizzou fans that want to stay. KC is the center of the Big 12 and would be on the outskirts of the SEC's footprint. It is unlikely the SEC bball tourney would ever come to KC (as hilariously minor as that is in the grand scheme of things).

The Curators have reportedly said over 90% of Mizzou fans appear to be in favor of leaving.

ChiefsCountry 09-30-2011 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KChiefs1 (Post 7954633)
Demand for tickets would skyrocket.

Then you charge more.

ChiefsCountry 09-30-2011 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP (Post 7954638)
I wouldn't eliminate the possibility that if the Big XII does expand back to 12 teams that they don't pull a Big X and put OU in the North and UT in the South creating the possibility of those two meeting in the Big XII Championship Game.

OU and UT only want to play each other once though. They really don't want a rematch in the Big 12 championship game.

OnTheWarpath15 09-30-2011 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KChiefs1 (Post 7954633)
Demand for tickets would skyrocket.

Which means you raise ticket prices. No need to expand the stadium, IMO.

Hell, I'm not even that big of a CFB fan, but if Mizzou moved to the SEC and had the likes of Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, etc on their home schedule, you bet your ass I'm making the trip to Columbia a few times.

I'm not wasting my time/money to see ISU/KSU/KS, etc.

Dr. Gigglepants 09-30-2011 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler (Post 7954632)
They were ranked #1 in the BCS prior to the Title Game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_BCS_computer_rankings

I was at the game, I'm aware of their ranking at the time and the implications of the loss. I'm saying we lost to OU in the regular season in 2007. If that happens now, with no title game, what are the chances we are ranked #1, are in a position to win a Big XII title and go to the NC game? How do you win a 9 or 10 team league with a conference loss? If all the stars do align and you win the Big XII "title" with a conference loss, what are the odds you're #1 in the country and get a NC game bid?

Frazod 09-30-2011 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP (Post 7954638)
I wouldn't eliminate the possibility that if the Big XII does expand back to 12 teams that they don't pull a Big X and put OU in the North and UT in the South creating the possibility of those two meeting in the Big XII Championship Game.

Sounds great. Perhaps they could take a page from the B1G and name the divisions Lackeys and Losers.

DJ's left nut 09-30-2011 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KChiefs1 (Post 7954628)
MU would have to expand their stadium if they joined the SEC.

Faurot was built in 1925, IIRC.

It's been updated a couple of times, but there's no question that the bones of the stadium are closing in on a century old at this point.

They have an 'SEC caliber' pressbox and suite setup, but the rest of it just doesn't look up to par. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for them to go to the donors and ask for some capital improvement money.

Unfortunately the Laurie door may have slammed shut with the Paige Sports Arena debacle, but perhaps the Kroenke's have some spare change in their couch cushions.

I will say this, however - when Faurot is really rocking and the stakes are high, it can stand with most stadiums in the country:

http://missourisportsblog.com/wp-con...-shot-Copy.jpg

It isn't a terrible stadium, but it could use an upgrade. That wide bowl look just seems dated; I'd like to see them go to a 2-tier stadium with steeper angles, but that's just me.

patteeu 09-30-2011 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Gigglepants (Post 7954627)
And how would we get to the NC game with a regular season loss to OU, in a Big XII without a title game? If I'm interpreting your post correctly that is.

I don't think there's any reason to believe that Mizzou will always lose to OU. Mizzou is competitive now and everything could change dramatically the next time the two schools change coaches or one of them whiffs on a QB. Texas, Oklahoma, and Nebraska all went through several down years at one point in the not so distant past. I was at Texas during the Mackovic years in the early 90s when they were in the middle of a 15 or 20 year slump. Oklahoma wasn't any good during the 90s either. And Nebraska struggled for several years after Tom Osbourne left.

I think Mizzou can be competitive in the SEC too.

dirk digler 09-30-2011 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Gigglepants (Post 7954650)
I was at the game, I'm aware of their ranking at the time and the implications of the loss. I'm saying we lost to OU in the regular season in 2007. If that happens now, with no title game, what are the chances we are ranked #1, are in a position to win a Big XII title and go to the NC game? How do you win a 9 or 10 team league with a conference loss? If all the stars do align and you win the Big XII "title" with a conference loss, what are the odds you're #1 in the country and get a NC game bid?

As always it will probably come down to who you lost to, when and where you lost to and if any of the other teams have 1 loss.

Just remember that year Ohio State went to the Championship game with 1-loss in conference the next to last week of the season at home against an unranked Illinois team with no Big 10 title game.

OnTheWarpath15 09-30-2011 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 7954656)
Faurot was built in 1925, IIRC.

It's been updated a couple of times, but there's no question that the bones of the stadium are closing in on a century old at this point.

They have an 'SEC caliber' pressbox and suite setup, but the rest of it just doesn't look up to par. It wouldn't be the worst thing in the world for them to go to the donors and ask for some capital improvement money.

Unfortunately the Laurie door may have slammed shut with the Paige Sports Arena debacle, but perhaps the Kroenke's have some spare change in their couch cushions.

I will say this, however - when Faurot is really rocking and the stakes are high, it can stand with most stadiums in the country:

http://missourisportsblog.com/wp-con...-shot-Copy.jpg

It isn't a terrible stadium, but it could use an upgrade. That wide bowl look just seems dated; I'd like to see them go to a 2-tier stadium with steeper angles, but that's just me.

It could absolutely use an upgrade, but it's not absolutely necessary to be part of the SEC, as implied.

Dr. Gigglepants 09-30-2011 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirk digler (Post 7954664)
As always it will probably come down to who you lost to, when and where you lost to and if any of the other teams have 1 loss.

Just remember that year Ohio State went to the Championship game with 1-loss in conference the next to last week of the season at home against an unranked Illinois team with no Big 10 title game.

I guess all the stars can align, I just don't really see a clear path to the NC game in either a 9 or 10 team Big XII, or the SEC. Also that was TOSU, Mizzou got passed over for the orange bowl that year for ****ing KU. That should tell you all you need to know about where Mizzou will rank if there is another team to consider in the mix.

Dr. Gigglepants 09-30-2011 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patteeu (Post 7954658)
I don't think there's any reason to believe that Mizzou will always lose to OU. Mizzou is competitive now and everything could change dramatically the next time the two schools change coaches or one of them whiffs on a QB. Texas, Oklahoma, and Nebraska all went through several down years at one point in the not so distant past. I was at Texas during the Mackovic years in the early 90s when they were in the middle of a 15 or 20 year slump. Oklahoma wasn't any good during the 90s either. And Nebraska struggled for several years after Tom Osbourne left.

I think Mizzou can be competitive in the SEC too.

Not saying you're wrong, but with the UT and OU of the past decade is hard to imagine ever having another 15-20 year slump. I agree, MU will be just as competitive in the SEC. Perennial 8 maybe 9 win team, then once every 4 or 5 years a dark horse favorite with a shot to make it to an SEC title game.

OnTheWarpath15 09-30-2011 09:19 AM

Potentially stupid question because I don't follow CFB that closely, but since I've seen a few people talking about BCS bids and the like:

Assuming Mizzou goes to the SEC - wouldn't it be possible that they could be say, 9-3 and be ranked higher in the BCS rankings because they play a much tougher schedule in the SEC than if they were say 10-2 in the B12 playing the weak sisters of KSU/KU/ISU?

duncan_idaho 09-30-2011 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Gigglepants (Post 7954650)
I was at the game, I'm aware of their ranking at the time and the implications of the loss. I'm saying we lost to OU in the regular season in 2007. If that happens now, with no title game, what are the chances we are ranked #1, are in a position to win a Big XII title and go to the NC game? How do you win a 9 or 10 team league with a conference loss? If all the stars do align and you win the Big XII "title" with a conference loss, what are the odds you're #1 in the country and get a NC game bid?

The chances are pretty slim that a one-loss Big 12-whatever team would rise back to No. 1 in the rankings, but it is possible.

Recipe:

The one loss must come in the first half of the season
Must be fairly highly rated at the time of the loss
The loss must be to a team/in a fashion that doesn't crush your rankings
There must be no more than one undefeated team in the country
If the undefeated team isn't from the SEC, all SEC teams must have at least two losses
Teams ahead of you after the loss will have to lose

Basically, exactly what happened in 2007. Missouri fell from 11 to 14 or so after the loss in Norman. Then Oklahoma lost once more, to give the Sooners two regular season losses. And everyone in front of Mizzou lost at least once before the end of the regular season.

LSU lost twice, and the SEC had no other team in that range.

I mean, in 2007, substitute Missouri's win vs. Texas A&M for a win versus Texas and the win against Colorado for a win against oSu. At the end of the season, Missouri would have been 11-1, having just defeated the number 2 team in the country the same week that No. 1, No. 2 and No. 3 all lost (remember: West Virginia and Ohio State both choked in the closing weeks).

They would have been a shoe-in to the title game at that point. Only the loss to OU knocked 'em out.

DJ's left nut 09-30-2011 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KChiefs1 (Post 7954635)
Per Twitter: DaveSittler Source: Neinas "working hard at re-recruiting Mizzou and talking them down off the ledge" and away from jumping to SEC.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/pictu...&pictureid=982

duncan_idaho 09-30-2011 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut (Post 7954682)

From what I hear, Mizzou's demands are very unlikely to all be met, and it's unlikely they stay unless all demands are met.

I'm sure Neinas will make a pitch, but unless that includes neutering the LHN (No buying/selling of Big 12 games, no high school games, no high school highlights, etc) and adding some really high-quality members (BYU is that level, but Lousiville/Cincy are just awful), there's not much to sell to Mizzou at this point.

Dr. Gigglepants 09-30-2011 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 7954673)
The chances are pretty slim that a one-loss Big 12-whatever team would rise back to No. 1 in the rankings, but it is possible.

Recipe:
...

They would have been a shoe-in to the title game at that point. Only the loss to OU knocked 'em out.

What are the implications of not having aTm or NU on our schedule? Will our SOS be high enough to get us to #1? Even if we beat OU and UT and win the "title," what if there is an undefeated PAC and and undefeated SEC team? If we beat OU and UT, it's pretty likely at least 1 of them didn't finish the season ranked. Would we even stand a chance at getting the NC game under the BCS system?

I realize that in today's CFB, your scenario where everything aligns perfectly is probably more likely than an undefeated school from 3 conferences.

DaKCMan AP 09-30-2011 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7954671)
Potentially stupid question because I don't follow CFB that closely, but since I've seen a few people talking about BCS bids and the like:

Assuming Mizzou goes to the SEC - wouldn't it be possible that they could be say, 9-3 and be ranked higher in the BCS rankings because they play a much tougher schedule in the SEC than if they were say 10-2 in the B12 playing the weak sisters of KSU/KU/ISU?

Higher ranked - yes. But currently only 2 teams from each conference can go to a BCS bowl. With expansion they are looking to petition that so that, say, 3 SEC teams could go to BCS Bowls.

duncan_idaho 09-30-2011 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Gigglepants (Post 7954700)
What are the implications of not having aTm or NU on our schedule? Will our SOS be high enough to get us to #1? Even if we beat OU and UT and win the "title," what if there is an undefeated PAC and and undefeated SEC team? If we beat OU and UT, it's pretty likely at least 1 of them didn't finish the season ranked. Would we even stand a chance at getting the NC game under the BCS system?

I realize that in today's CFB, your scenario where everything aligns perfectly is probably more likely than an undefeated school from 3 conferences.

At that point, honestly, it would probably depend on which teams were ranked higher at the start of the season. I'd assume the SEC team gets one spot. The PAC spot would depend on who it was (and honestly, the 12-team PAC really is no better than the current Big 12-3).

Look at this season. UT and OU are both ranked (OU really highly and UT at a middle level). Oklahoma State is highly regarded. Going undefeated through that gauntlet would be more impressive than anything a PAC team could do.

Really would depend on the year, though. I don't think the additions of Utah and Colorado exactly turn the PAC into a monster.

USC is down (and will be for a while, thanks to the hits)
UCLA is even more disappointing as a program than Mizzou
Stanford is probably due for another spell of mediocrity after Luck goes No. 1 (to the Chiefs!)
Oregon is really good but also facing sanctions.

The rest of that league is not very impressive right now.

Dr. Gigglepants 09-30-2011 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 7954726)
At that point, honestly, it would probably depend on which teams were ranked higher at the start of the season. I'd assume the SEC team gets one spot. The PAC spot would depend on who it was (and honestly, the 12-team PAC really is no better than the current Big 12-3).

...

The rest of that league is not very impressive right now.

So who ya got? Big ?? or SEC and why?

DaKCMan AP 09-30-2011 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 7954726)
At that point, honestly, it would probably depend on which teams were ranked higher at the start of the season. I'd assume the SEC team gets one spot. The PAC spot would depend on who it was (and honestly, the 12-team PAC really is no better than the current Big 12-3).

Look at this season. UT and OU are both ranked (OU really highly and UT at a middle level). Oklahoma State is highly regarded. Going undefeated through that gauntlet would be more impressive than anything a PAC team could do.

Really would depend on the year, though. I don't think the additions of Utah and Colorado exactly turn the PAC into a monster.

USC is down (and will be for a while, thanks to the hits)
UCLA is even more disappointing as a program than Mizzou
Stanford is probably due for another spell of mediocrity after Luck goes No. 1 (to the Chiefs!)
Oregon is really good but also facing sanctions.

The rest of that league is not very impressive right now.

The biggest problem for the Big XII is not having a conference champ. game.

All else being equal a SEC, ACC, Big X or Pac-12 team would get the nod.

duncan_idaho 09-30-2011 10:00 AM

If Missouri HAS to move now, the only thing really on the table is the SEC. I would prefer the BiG over the long haul, but I'm not sure they make a move now.

I would not be crushed if Missouri waited for a few years if they were certain the SEC would be on the table at a later date. This looks like a possibility IF the ACC holds together and the SEC truly doesn't want to add anyone from inside its current footprint. UNC/Va. Tech/Virginia/Maryland aren't happening. That leaves Missouri in pretty good shape as it regards to SEC expansion (unless the SEC looks ready to settle for West Virginia).

I have some real misgivings about the move to the SEC. It would not be as rosy as many Mizzou fans assume. I think the presence and importance of aTm in Texas is severely overstated by Aggies and pro-SEC movers alike. If the Big 12 still exists, aTm/SEC is still the second-best show in state. And the SEC still has to recruit through the Big 12 bubble that has held schools like Arkansas out - or at least limited their imprint.

I think moving to the SEC with the Big 12 still in place would be damaging to Missouri's Texas recruiting efforts. It MIGHT help in-state. It MIGHT help in Louisiana and Florida.

I've seen some Mizzou fans claim it would be an easy sell to Midwest border states (come play in the best conference in America!), but the only state that has significant talent is Illinois (Chicago), and those kids are Big Ten all the way.

It would probably be a strong move for hoops and good for the overall athletic department. But football would take some hits on the recruiting trail until it sunk better contacts in LA and FL and GA.

duncan_idaho 09-30-2011 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP (Post 7954760)
The biggest problem for the Big XII is not having a conference champ. game.

All else being equal a SEC, ACC, Big X or Pac-12 team would get the nod.

I'll buy SEC and BiG.

Not so much on ACC or PAC.

The ACC is an unimpressive football conference unless/until Florida State and Miami get rolling again.

The PAC generally has one really good team, a top 25 team, and a bunch of crap. Unless Stanford sustains its run sans Luck and Harbaugh (unlikely), it's USC and Oregon (which doesn't carry the weight of Oklahoma and Texas).

The Big 12's top 4 most years will compare favorably with the top 4 in the ACC/PAC. Big 12 schools could also help themselves by playing a serious out-of-conference opponent every year (something OU already does).

DaKCMan AP 09-30-2011 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 7954782)
I'll buy SEC and BiG.

Not so much on ACC or PAC.

The ACC is an unimpressive football conference unless/until Florida State and Miami get rolling again.

The PAC generally has one really good team, a top 25 team, and a bunch of crap. Unless Stanford sustains its run sans Luck and Harbaugh (unlikely), it's USC and Oregon (which doesn't carry the weight of Oklahoma and Texas).

The Big 12's top 4 most years will compare favorably with the top 4 in the ACC/PAC. Big 12 schools could also help themselves by playing a serious out-of-conference opponent every year (something OU already does).

I said all things being equal. If you have undefeated Oregon/Stanford or an undefeated Va Tech/FSU/Miami and they win another quality game in a conf. champ. while the Big XII team sits idle, the Big XII team will get jumped in the rankings.

Pitt Gorilla 09-30-2011 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho (Post 7954768)
If Missouri HAS to move now, the only thing really on the table is the SEC. I would prefer the BiG over the long haul, but I'm not sure they make a move now.

I would not be crushed if Missouri waited for a few years if they were certain the SEC would be on the table at a later date. This looks like a possibility IF the ACC holds together and the SEC truly doesn't want to add anyone from inside its current footprint. UNC/Va. Tech/Virginia/Maryland aren't happening. That leaves Missouri in pretty good shape as it regards to SEC expansion (unless the SEC looks ready to settle for West Virginia).

I have some real misgivings about the move to the SEC. It would not be as rosy as many Mizzou fans assume. I think the presence and importance of aTm in Texas is severely overstated by Aggies and pro-SEC movers alike. If the Big 12 still exists, aTm/SEC is still the second-best show in state. And the SEC still has to recruit through the Big 12 bubble that has held schools like Arkansas out - or at least limited their imprint.

I think moving to the SEC with the Big 12 still in place would be damaging to Missouri's Texas recruiting efforts. It MIGHT help in-state. It MIGHT help in Louisiana and Florida.

I've seen some Mizzou fans claim it would be an easy sell to Midwest border states (come play in the best conference in America!), but the only state that has significant talent is Illinois (Chicago), and those kids are Big Ten all the way.

It would probably be a strong move for hoops and good for the overall athletic department. But football would take some hits on the recruiting trail until it sunk better contacts in LA and FL and GA.

I appreciate your take on this. I would note, however, that LSU has little trouble recruiting Texas, even without an A&M.

duncan_idaho 09-30-2011 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP (Post 7954787)
I said all things being equal. If you have undefeated Oregon/Stanford or an undefeated Va Tech/FSU/Miami and they win another quality game in a conf. champ. while the Big XII team sits idle, the Big XII team will get jumped in the rankings.

Fair enough. Of course, it would depend on the situation each year.

I'm just thinking of all the times the ACC championship game has been a stinker (one good, top 10 team vs a fringe top 30 team). I thnk the PAC game is going to be like that most years.

WilliamTheIrish 09-30-2011 10:29 AM

That was one of the great National Lampoon covers of all time.

eazyb81 09-30-2011 10:31 AM

Damn, Clay Travis at Outkick The Coverage has just been killing it on the SEC expansion storyline. If any Mizzou fan isn't reading him by now you should be.

http://outkickthecoverage.com/realit...uri-in-sec.php
Quote:


Reality: There Are No Barriers To Missouri in SEC


Published on: September 30, 2011 | Written by: Clay Travis


Trust me, Missouri fans, your fan campaign to push the Missouri Tigers in to the SEC has been a complete and total success. Now you've got to keep up the SEC fight for just a couple of more weeks. I told you earlier this week I'd give you an update based on what I'm hearing so here it is: You're still the front-runner to be the SEC's 14th. Even more so than you were a week ago. Indeed, your board of curator meeting on Tuesday just happens to be the day before the SEC athletic directors will be meeting on Wednesday. Coincidence? Maybe. But I doubt it.

Let's dive in and consider the situation that Missouri faces so you guys have better information to combat those who would argue that Missouri's fate is hemmed in by the buyout that would be owed under the Big 12 bylaws, by lawsuit threats, or by other nonexistent issues. Missouri factions that don't want to leave are saying the cost would be $40 million and that a lawsuit would ensue that could cost even more. Please. That's not the case. The actual cost to Missouri for jumping to the SEC would be in the neighborhood of $12 million. And if the school really fought it could end up being nothing at all.

Let's discuss these details so you're armed with actual facts as opposed to propaganda from those who don't want the Tigers to leave.

The Big 12 bylaws are complicated and weak.

OKTC broke down the bylaws for a proposed Texas A&M move to the SEc over a month ago, but now we're going to do the same for Missouri. Here is the relevant portion of the Big 12 bylaws when it comes to a member leaving:

3.1 Membership.

Each Member Institution shall remain a member of the Conference until July 1, 2006 (the “Current Term”) and during any Additional Term (as defined below). Unless a Member Institution gives written notice that it will withdraw from the Conference at the end of the Current Term or the then-current Additional Term to all other Member Institutions and the Conference (a “Notice”) not less than two (2) years before the end of the Current Term or the then-current Additional Term, as the case may be, each Member Institution shall remain a member of the Conference for an additional five-year period after the end of the Current Term or the then-current Additional Term, as the case may be (each, an “Additional Term”) unless such member is a Breaching Member. Each Member Institution agrees that in the event such Member desires to withdraw from the Conference, that it will in good faith give Notice not less than two (2) years before the end of the Current Term or any Additional Term, as the case may be. No Member Institution shall be entitled to distribution of the then-current revenues from the Conference after the effective date of its withdrawal, resignation, or the cessation of its participation in the Conference (the “Effective Date”).

3.2 Effect of Giving Notice.
If a Member Institution gives proper Notice pursuant to Section 3.1 (a “Withdrawing Member”), then the Members agree that such withdrawal would cause financial hardship to the remaining Member Institutions of the Conference, and that the financial consequences cannot be measured or estimated with certainty at this time. Therefore, in recognition of the obligations and responsibilities of each Member Institution to all other Member Institutions of the Conference, each Member Institution agrees that the amount of revenue that would have been otherwise distributable to a Withdrawing Member pursuant to Section 2 herein for the final two (2) years of the Current Term or the then current Additional Term, as the case may be, shall be reduced by fifty percent (50%), with the remainder to be distributed to the other Member Institutions who are not Withdrawing Members or Breaching Members (as defined below) as additional Conference revenues in accordance with Section 2 herein. The Member Institutions agree that such reduction in the amount of revenues distributed to a Withdrawing Member is reasonable and shall be in the form of liquidated damages and not be construed as a penalty.

3.3 Effect of Withdrawal From Conference Other Than by Giving Proper Notice.
If, other than by giving a proper Notice pursuant to Section 3.1, a Member Institution (a “Breaching Member”) withdraws, resigns, or otherwise ceases to participate as a full Member Institution in full compliance with these Rules, or gives notice or otherwise states its intent to so withdraw, resign, or cease to participate in the future (a “Breach”), then the Member Institutions agree that such Breach would cause financial hardship to the remaining Member Institutions of the Conference, and that the financial consequences cannot be measured or estimated with certainty at this time. Therefore, in recognition of the obligations and responsibilities of each Member Institution to all other Member Institutions of the Conference, each Member Institution agrees that after such Breach, the amount of Conference revenue that would otherwise have been distributed or distributable to the Breaching Member during the two (2) years prior to the end of the Current Term or the then-current Additional Term, as the case may be, shall be reduced by an amount that equals the sum of the aggregate of such revenues times the following percentages (such sum being the “Aggregate Reduction”); if Notice is received less than two years but on or before eighteen months prior to the Effective Date, 70%; if Notice is received less than eighteen months but on or before twelve months prior to the Effective Date, 80%; if Notice is received less than twelve months but on or before six months prior to the Effective Date, 90%; or if Notice is received less than six months prior to the Effective Date, 100%.

After such Breach, none of the revenues that otherwise would be distributable to a Breaching Member shall be paid to the Breaching Member until the aggregate amount so withheld (the “Withheld Amounts”) equals the Aggregate Reduction; thereafter, all revenues that would otherwise have been distributable to the Breaching Member shall be so distributed. If the Withheld Amounts are less than the Aggregate Reduction, then the Member Institutions acknowledge and agree that the Conference shall assess such Breaching Member an amount that equals the difference of the Aggregate Reduction less the Withheld Amounts, and the Breaching Member agrees that on or prior to the Effective Date it shall repay to the Conference such amount from revenue that previously had been distributed to such Breaching Member. The Withheld Amounts and any such repayment of the difference of the Aggregate Reduction less the Withheld Amounts shall be distributed to the other Member Institutions who are not Withdrawing Members or Breaching Members as additional Conference revenues in accordance with Section 2 herein. The Member Institutions agree that such reduction in the distribution of revenues to a Breaching Member is reasonable.
...
1. The relevant portions of the Big 12 bylaws that will now be discussed are in bold. Let's start with the liquidated damages provision for leaving early.

The worst case scenario for Missouri is damages in the neighborhood of $26.1 million. How do I arrive at this number? This year the Big 12 distributed $145 million to its member institutions. That's around $14.5 million per school. So the way I'm reading this contract the most the Big 12 could withhold from a member institution is around $14.5 million a year. (This number will grow over the next several years, but not excessively).
That's because Missouri would fall into this portion of the Big 12 bylaws: "if Notice is received less than twelve months but on or before six months prior to the Effective Date, 90%." The rough total that would be owed if the full buyout was to be paid? $26.1 million.

This, by the way, is the same provision of the bylaws that Texas A&M's depature is governed by. So the Aggies have decided that this amount of money is no barrier to departure. So long as Missouri notifies the Big 12 of its departure prior to December 1, 2011, it will fall under the same provision of the bylaws as Texas A&M. That's important because A&M and Missouri would be treated the same.

2. But Missouri and A&M will probably pay much less than $26.1 million. Why? The precedent already set by Nebraska and Colorado.

Recall that Nebraska and Colorado left the Big 12 last season. Reports were that the two schools would face substantial buyouts. Indeed the Big 12 initially demanded $19.4 million from Nebraska and over $14 million from Colorado. But then Nebraska paid a settlement of $9.25 million and Colorado paid a settlement of $6.86 million.

What happened?

The Big 12 bylaws came into play.

Look back at the liquidated damages provision of the bylaw for the true ticking time bomb: "each Member Institution agrees that the amount of revenue that would have been otherwise distributable to a Withdrawing Member pursuant to Section 2 herein for the final two (2) years of the Current Term or the then current Additional Term, as the case may be, shall be reduced by fifty percent (50%)."
Okay, that means the payment amount is actually going to come from 2015 and 2016, the final two years of the "Additional Term."
Only, you guessed it, A&M and Missouri would be gone by then so neither school will receive a dime of revenue from the Big 12 in 2015 or 2016.
So if you apply the above language, 90% x 0 = 0.

Uh oh.

Now, I don't think the legal argument would win -- most judges would probably apply the intended liquidated damages clause holding that the purpose of a liquidated damages clause is actually to have a liquidated damages clause -- but it's definitely yet another flaw in a tremendously flawed Big 12. And could a judge be unwilling to give the benefit of the doubt to a huge entity like the Big 12 that made this drafting mistake? Of course.

This is a flaw that's so gigantic the Big 12 might not want to sue under the contract for fear of losing and providing notice to all members that the exit fee for the next couple of years is $0.

Nebraska chancellor Harvey Perlman said lat year he believed he had a strong argument against giving up any money.

'I'm also cognizant of the risks associated with litigation," Perlman said last year. "What I think is the law may not turn out to be the law. I'm disappointed, as an academic, that my curiosity about the legal claims won't be resolved. But when you look at everything, I think it made sense in this setting to get this behind us and avoid the risks of litigation.'"

Certainly the Big 12 believes this is a litigation risk as well, it's why the league ultimately settled with Nebraska for $9.25 million and with Colorado for $6.86 million.

That settlement represented 47.6% of the payout that both schools would have owed under the bylaws. If A&M and Missouri did the same with its projected $26.1 million that would come to $12.4 million.

That, my friends, is no penalty at all.

3. The Big 12 lawsuit risk is dead
.
The SEC admitted Texas A&M without receiving waivers from the remaining Big 12 schools that are still holding out.

That's an important detail because it confirms what I told you guys a few weeks back: Baylor had no legitimate grounds to file a lawsuit against the SEC. Effectively, the SEC called Baylor's bluff by admitting A&M.

Any potential lawsuit is even more undercut now for two reasons: a. the Big 12 is going to raid another conference to add a member. The conference, therefore, has unclean hands in any lawsuit. How can any member of the Big 12 argue against taking a team from another conference when it is doing the same? and b. Interim commissioner Chuck Neinas made a blockbuster comment that hasn't received much attention. Asked whether the Big 12 would survive without Missouri Neinas said:

“Yes, I think it could be viable because there’s a lot of strength in the conference."

So if the conference is still viable without Missouri, how could there be any damages other than those included in the Big 12 bylaws if a member leaves?

Put simply, Ken Starr's threat of a lawsuit is dead.

4. Missouri's revenue opportunities in the SEC are massive.

That's because an SEC Network in partnership with ESPN is coming.
Texas A&M and Missouri are a big part of the SEC's plans for that network. So are Virginia Tech and N.C. State. But that's in the future. For now, Missouri and Texas are important footprints and markets for the network.

5. So what needs to happen for Missouri to join the SEC?

Just follow Texas A&M's roadmap.

Give your leaders the authority to explore conference options, then divorce from the Big 12, then accept the SEC's offer.

It's as simple as one, two, three. Do that Mizzou, and welcome to the SEC.
SEC presidents are thrilled with your academics, you'll fit in well athletically, and the SEC Network is about to make it rain down money.

If Missouri wants to join the SEC, it's barriers to entry are minimal. OKTC told y'all nearly a month ago that Missouri was the SEC's 14th. Now I'm telling you this, it's close to fruition if the Mizzou fans keep up the push to go South.

duncan_idaho 09-30-2011 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla (Post 7954811)
I appreciate your rake on this. I would note, however, that LSU has little trouble recruiting Texas, even without an A&M.

LSU has 14 Texas kids on its roster, and its national imprint is a lot higher than Mizzou's. Baton Rouge is also closer to Dallas/Houston than Columbia, MO.

They're still only averaging somewhere between 2 and 3 Texas kids a year. Not that impressive, IMO. I know their main focus is on LA kids, but still...

Missouri will have to do much better in Texas than either Arkansas or LSU currently do to keep its program at the current level.

beer bacon 09-30-2011 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7954671)
Potentially stupid question because I don't follow CFB that closely, but since I've seen a few people talking about BCS bids and the like:

Assuming Mizzou goes to the SEC - wouldn't it be possible that they could be say, 9-3 and be ranked higher in the BCS rankings because they play a much tougher schedule in the SEC than if they were say 10-2 in the B12 playing the weak sisters of KSU/KU/ISU?

Very possible. Off the top of my head Mississippi State was ranked 4 or 5 spots ahead of MU at the end of last season, and they had one less win.

Saulbadguy 09-30-2011 12:54 PM

Pete Sampson

Post #19376
South Bend, IN
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Re: ND to Big 12? Reply

________________________________________
I have heard this, although a slightly different version.

What I've heard on this front is that the Big 12 would add BYU, TCU, West Virginia, Louisville and Cincinnati, thereby killing the Big East in its current version as a football conference. The Big 12 would then invite Notre Dame into the league for its applicable olympic sports but football would remain independent. The Big 12 would then be at 14 schools and Notre Dame would agree to a situation similar to what Kevin White agreed to with the Big East in football, basically that Notre Dame play three Big 12 teams per year. Don't be surprised if Notre Dame changes up its Thanksgiving week routine and Texas becomes an annual series there, replacing the Longhorns game with Texas A&M. That's the hope from Texas at least.

With Notre Dame a partial member of the Big 12 at 14 schools, Notre Dame would have the first right of refusal to join in full with football should the next conference realignment step force Notre Dame into a football conference, i.e. suddenly there are four 16-team super conferences and break away from the NCAA. That doesn't mean Notre Dame would be locked into the Big 12, but they'd at least have a foot in the door there.

Pete Sampson
Editor - Irish Illustrated
psampson@rivals.com

HemiEd 09-30-2011 12:55 PM

So is Mizzou in or out today? :D

Pants 09-30-2011 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saulbadguy (Post 7955131)
Pete Sampson

Post #19376
South Bend, IN
MyFanPage
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Re: ND to Big 12? Reply

________________________________________
I have heard this, although a slightly different version.

What I've heard on this front is that the Big 12 would add BYU, TCU, West Virginia, Louisville and Cincinnati, thereby killing the Big East in its current version as a football conference. The Big 12 would then invite Notre Dame into the league for its applicable olympic sports but football would remain independent. The Big 12 would then be at 14 schools and Notre Dame would agree to a situation similar to what Kevin White agreed to with the Big East in football, basically that Notre Dame play three Big 12 teams per year. Don't be surprised if Notre Dame changes up its Thanksgiving week routine and Texas becomes an annual series there, replacing the Longhorns game with Texas A&M. That's the hope from Texas at least.

With Notre Dame a partial member of the Big 12 at 14 schools, Notre Dame would have the first right of refusal to join in full with football should the next conference realignment step force Notre Dame into a football conference, i.e. suddenly there are four 16-team super conferences and break away from the NCAA. That doesn't mean Notre Dame would be locked into the Big 12, but they'd at least have a foot in the door there.

Pete Sampson
Editor - Irish Illustrated
psampson@rivals.com


**** yeah, sounds good to me. Let's get this thing over with.

Raiderhater 09-30-2011 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saulbadguy (Post 7955131)
Pete Sampson

Post #19376
South Bend, IN
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
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Re: ND to Big 12? Reply

________________________________________
I have heard this, although a slightly different version.

What I've heard on this front is that the Big 12 would add BYU, TCU, West Virginia, Louisville and Cincinnati, thereby killing the Big East in its current version as a football conference. The Big 12 would then invite Notre Dame into the league for its applicable olympic sports but football would remain independent. The Big 12 would then be at 14 schools and Notre Dame would agree to a situation similar to what Kevin White agreed to with the Big East in football, basically that Notre Dame play three Big 12 teams per year. Don't be surprised if Notre Dame changes up its Thanksgiving week routine and Texas becomes an annual series there, replacing the Longhorns game with Texas A&M. That's the hope from Texas at least.

With Notre Dame a partial member of the Big 12 at 14 schools, Notre Dame would have the first right of refusal to join in full with football should the next conference realignment step force Notre Dame into a football conference, i.e. suddenly there are four 16-team super conferences and break away from the NCAA. That doesn't mean Notre Dame would be locked into the Big 12, but they'd at least have a foot in the door there.

Pete Sampson
Editor - Irish Illustrated
psampson@rivals.com


I would be all for that. However it seems something akin to a pipe dream to me.

HemiEd 09-30-2011 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeyis4dcats. (Post 7954626)
the issue isn'treally football and basketball, it's all the non-revenue sports - baseball, lacrosse, soccer, volleyball, wbb, etc that would be costly to travel great distances.

Wow, that is the first post I have seen mentioning this. That would be a big deal

KChiefs1 09-30-2011 01:34 PM

Kietzman just doesn't get it or he is trying to save his Wildcats from oblivion.

Setsuna 09-30-2011 02:04 PM

The Big XII can have WVU. Their fans are worse than Philly fans and Steelers fans.

Pitt Gorilla 09-30-2011 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pants (Post 7955140)
**** yeah, sounds good to me. Let's get this thing over with.

It sounds horrible. MU really needs to GTFO.

|Zach| 09-30-2011 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saulbadguy (Post 7955131)
Pete Sampson

Post #19376
South Bend, IN
MyFanPage
Add Buddy
Ignore
Re: ND to Big 12? Reply

________________________________________
I have heard this, although a slightly different version.

What I've heard on this front is that the Big 12 would add BYU, TCU, West Virginia, Louisville and Cincinnati, thereby killing the Big East in its current version as a football conference. The Big 12 would then invite Notre Dame into the league for its applicable olympic sports but football would remain independent. The Big 12 would then be at 14 schools and Notre Dame would agree to a situation similar to what Kevin White agreed to with the Big East in football, basically that Notre Dame play three Big 12 teams per year. Don't be surprised if Notre Dame changes up its Thanksgiving week routine and Texas becomes an annual series there, replacing the Longhorns game with Texas A&M. That's the hope from Texas at least.

With Notre Dame a partial member of the Big 12 at 14 schools, Notre Dame would have the first right of refusal to join in full with football should the next conference realignment step force Notre Dame into a football conference, i.e. suddenly there are four 16-team super conferences and break away from the NCAA. That doesn't mean Notre Dame would be locked into the Big 12, but they'd at least have a foot in the door there.

Pete Sampson
Editor - Irish Illustrated
psampson@rivals.com

Mizzou baby is skeptical.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...82527202_n.jpg

KChiefs1 09-30-2011 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58 (Post 7954646)
Which means you raise ticket prices. No need to expand the stadium, IMO.

Hell, I'm not even that big of a CFB fan, but if Mizzou moved to the SEC and had the likes of Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, etc on their home schedule, you bet your ass I'm making the trip to Columbia a few times.

I'm not wasting my time/money to see ISU/KSU/KS, etc.

If Missouri does indeed move to the SEC, expect a push for some upgrades to the football facilities. Memorial Stadium doesn't have the same "wow factor" that's standard around the SEC. Same goes for the team's indoor practice facility. If fans want the Tigers to play with the big boys of the SEC, they might have to buck up and pay for some new trimmings, too.

|Zach| 09-30-2011 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KChiefs1 (Post 7955435)
If Missouri does indeed move to the SEC, expect a push for some upgrades to the football facilities. Memorial Stadium doesn't have the same "wow factor" that's standard around the SEC. Same goes for the team's indoor practice facility. If fans want the Tigers to play with the big boys of the SEC, they might have to buck up and pay for some new trimmings, too.

Wah? Their indoor athletics complex is amazing.


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