No, it's like sink or swim with no favoritism. He plays for Chiefs, why would I want him to fail.

He has 1/4 of the rush snaps Karlaftis has because he didn't need to unseat Mike Dana for starters reps. On a per snap basis he's significantly better than Karlaftis has been and simply watching him play demonstrates that.

And we could have taken him and Karlaftis BOTH.

One has NOTHING to do with the other.

Yes it does, because you know very well if the Chiefs selected him as DE they wouldn't double up considering the other needs

Eh, this is the same thing people say to me about Moore and I WANT Moore to succeed. Again, before we got Toney, I was calling for Moore to start at the X to potentially provide a man coverage weapon on the backside.

Pointing out your preferred course in expressing your frustration in a chosen path hardly seems out of bounds.

I don't disagree.

Doesn't mean a bad argument ought not be pointed out.

Megatron made a bad argument.

What they would've done is fairy immaterial given that they clearly had Moore ahead of Williams.

It was a draft board problem, IMO. A well-set board yields both players and there's nothing inherent to the process that would've prevented that.

Sam Williams had off the field concerns that gave him a 0% chance of being draftted in the 1st. He wasn't even drafted in the top 50.

It's ****ing stupid, and Tribal Warfare has been a ****ing moron about Karlaftis from the beginning.

Whether it's him saying that his only shot to be good would be to bulk up and play 3T, or the implication that he's going to be a 1 sack a year guy for his entire career based on the first half of his rookie season, his takes have been asinine.

Okay, well there's good info. I wasn't aware that Williams didn't have as many snaps. And I haven't seen him play much this season either. i don't have the luxury of watching every game right now, so i think I've only seen about a half of any DAL game so far.

It's about the degree of disagreement and the rigidity of people not ever realizing that they might be overdoing it.

I don't put you in the category, at least not after I told you to stop. :evil:

And don't get me wrong, I like Tribal, always have. But in this case, it sure seems like his mind is made up and has been for a long time.

Oh, I didn't know that. Fine, i guess. Carry on then.

Says this-

Then says this -

And yet you may recall, I looked into Williams and asked "hey, is this Freshman year thing really the 'off the field concerns' that everyone is up in arms about?"

And was advised that really was the extent of it. To which I responded "This dude has the measurables and production of a top 10 pick - why is he sliding as far as he is?"

I think he's overplaying his hand w/r/t Karlaftis, but to say "well nobody would've thought of Williams as a 1st round pick" isn't fair either - I absolutely thought he was a guy worth taking in the 1st and I believe others did as well.

I mean outside of Walker and Thibodeaux, I didn't see an edge in this draft who's raw talent exploded off the screen more than Williams did.

That's my opinion, and wanting to be proven wrong.

And like I tried to tell you during the process, it wasn't going to happen.

Nobody said "well nobody would've thought of Williams as a 1st round pick".

You were far from the only person that saw 1st round talent in Sam Williams. Many of us loved him.

But that doesn't change the fact that he was never going in the 1st round.

I had a ton of Mocks with Karlaftis and Skyy at 29/30 and Williams in the 3rd….so I would have been in love getting them…but honestly, I like what we did over that.

Just look at this exchange with me and Pest (might've been wrong or just mixed the two up but I thought me and DJ had a similar exchange as well).

It sure seems like a theme of the draft was to take “clean prospects” in regards to injuries snd character concerns.

Pretty much all of them fit that bill.

Maybe Andy felt the locker room needed new young leadership with Tyrann leaving and wanted to avoid character concerns that might have created minor derailment by picking guys like Williams and/or Pickens.

Remember, they have 20x more in depth info on what actually happened than we do.

I can still be pissed we didn't take him at 54, right?

Because even I didn't have him ahead of Karlaftis as an overall prospect. Once Karlaftis made it to 30, that was a no-brainer to me.

Oh no.

Pest wanted to package 2 first rounders to move up and take Jermaine Johnson.

Baby, what is you doin'?

Interesting that Karlaftis has 5 batted passes when scouts were on him about his arms being small.

Pretty sure that was a reason he fell to us

Rookie doesn't have 10 sacks already, he sucks /CP


This place is ****ing reeruned 95% of the time.


Clinging to that 5% like it's crypto.

Hey ****er....at least I wasn't on the "Trade everything to take Jameson Williams". The dude that STILL can't get on the ****ing field.

And I'm not saying that was you.

And in my defense....that was when it was pretty much a given that Jermaine Johnson was going in the top 10-15 picks.

Lol, and George's arms are about 1 inch short of the "NFL ideal arm-length for a DE," or some dumb shit. Not an inch short of the minimum required (whatever stupid length that might be) but short of the "ideal length," by about an inch.

Can't make up just how stupid a demarcation that is.

Was it O.City?

It's always O.City.

ROFL

U ****in wot, m8?

By the time the draft rolled around....it was a good portion of posters. See below.

That’s a way too early take. He was always expected to miss most if not all of his rookie season which is why he dropped to the bottom of Round 1. Wait until next season to see if waiting on him was a wise use of a high draft pick.

Hey, I didn't actually WANT them to do it. I just thought that's what they'd do.

Don't backtrack now, Brooke.

How is Jermaine Johnson doing? That's who everyone wanted when we traded up for McDuffie.

I'm not stuck here with you, you're stuck here with me.

Pretty forgettable; not on the field much.

3 sacks but only 5 total pressures. His 'rates' out to about the same as Karlaftis has, but if you're being used in a limited capacity, you'd better be pretty impactful when you're out there (as Sam Williams has been).

Johnson is playing at roughly the same level as Karlaftis but in a far smaller volume.

ROFL She's back!

Bump!

Loved seeing him finally get that sack, just to see him get excited.

Don't remember seeing him that much except that sack and that TFL though. Which might just mean that he did his job and/or didn't do something stupid.

Kudos to the Greak Phreak though!

I felt like I saw him setting the edge pretty well today. Although he didn't get off the block but he did stop the run from bouncing outside.

ANY high-round rookie D lineman that doesn't have more than two sacks their rookie year is a complete bust.

I'm sick of the homers on CP trying to deny what is an obvious truth about Karlaftis. That sack today, which means he has all of 1.5 sacks on the season, doesn't mean anything. He's a total bust, just like the D-tackle that we took in the 2nd round who got only two sacks as a rookie in 2016.

That Chris Jones guy is totally worthless today. Of course, he was 22 as a rookie instead of 21 like the Greek Freak.

Meh, there are posters on CP who don't think Jones is worth his current contract. If you want to appear ridiculous, you best up your game.

They were playing a ton of contain on Perkins, he did his job. He shot out of a cannon on that sack.

Glad he got that sack. He was fine against a terrible OL. I really liked the pick, still think he'll improve significantly, but if anyone said they thought he'd have just 1.5 sacks at this point in the season I reckon they'd be lying.

I think the truth is that very few late 1st round edges make big impacts straight away. Even the top edges in this class have been struggling for production.

Hopefully he can kick on next year.

Anyone watching his tape over the last four or five games will have seen that he's been beating his man and came very close to getting a sack but the qb's were getting the ball out just a second quicker or his fellow defender gets there and earns the sack just as he gets there. Trey Hendrickson is his comp to me and Trey had two sacks combined in his first two seasons. Then got four and a half in his third season and took off from there. We just have to be patient with the kid and I'm sure it will work out fine.

Could be a fair comparison, but Hendriksen was a 3rd pick.

There are a couple of guys picked after him who look like they're playing better - Williams, Ebikitie, even Enagbare. But that's always the way it is, and I don't disagree that in general late 1st RD DEs aren't always guys you expect to explode straight away.

He would have been a first in a redraft.

Same with Sneed, etc.

Yep, I think there a lot of people that don't understand the strategy we play against mobile QBs.

"Why aren't you rushing hard upfield to get to the QB? Waaaaaa!!!"

Meanwhile, Jalen Hurts (at least I think it was the Eagles game, if memory is correct) abused the Packers for rushing too hard upfield last night.

I don't know, man. I didn't really watch any Purdue games so I knew nothing about this guy and therefore didn't really say much. But I do recall that there were a lot of people that said he wasn't a big sack getter, just that he had a high motor and got lots of pressures.

Hopefully, he takes off sooner than that. :hmmm:

Defensive Line is one of those positions where a rookie can make immediate huge impact but it often takes a year or two to see what a player will really be.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Rookie pass rush win rate leaders:<br><br>Kayvon Thibodeaux 14.5%<br>Arnold Ebiketie 12.6%<br>George Karlaftis 12.5%<br>Aidan Hutchinson 11.1%<br>Travon Walker 9.2% <a href="https://t.co/MIi4epn9c2">pic.twitter.com/MIi4epn9c2</a></p>&mdash; NFL Rookie Watch (@NFLRookieWatxh) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLRookieWatxh/status/1597331345910685696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 28, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

He’s legitimately doing better but he still has a ways to go. Good sign seeing him have consecutive sack games

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Most QB hurries by rookies this season:<br><br>George Karlaftis 26<br>Aidan Hutchinson 26<br>Travon Walker 21<br>Kayvon Thibodeaux 21<br>Arnold Ebiketie 16 <a href="https://t.co/PokNvi9gWy">pic.twitter.com/PokNvi9gWy</a></p>&mdash; NFL Rookie Watch (@NFLRookieWatxh) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLRookieWatxh/status/1600689827816562688?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 8, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

bet he gets 5 sacks in the last 5 games

Always a step too late or slow finishing the play

Lol figures he has back to back games with a sack and you still want to push this narrative.

First pressures weren't enough, now apparently sacks aren't either.

The guy is a 21 year old rookie and he's getting better.

Against a practice squad QB and a coverage sack. With his win rate he should have at least 5. Hutchinson has 7 sacks Jermaine Johnson has 7 and Williams has 3.

You can't teach speed he's a" try hard" white guy who has had the most snaps taken by a rookie DE. Thus more chances with average results. Keep those rose colored glasses on

Isn't his win rate actually kinda low. I'm sure it was around 11% a few weeks back, maybe it's ticked up. But yeah, this season he's just a guy trying hard every snap and not getting near enough to the QB.

He also has Chris Jones taking multiple blockers leaving him with 1 on 1 snaps against OTs which is an easy task for Karlaftis to take advantage because he was always double teamed when he was at Purdue which effected his ability to register sacks/finishing a play.

This sentiment has been conveyed during the preseason but has been walked back because of Karlaftis' physical limitations to close.

Now tell us more stats about how good CEH is, and about how we should sign OBJ to top LT extension...Because that's what you do. And mock everyone else who has a different opinion than you,which turns out to be right later on. LMAO

Jermaine Johnson has 7 sacks?

No, he has 2.5. Same as Karlaftis.

Hutchinson was the #2 overall pick. Is that our expectations for a guy we took at 30?

God damn you're reeruned.

Oh looks like somebody is a little butthurt that I called them out for being a ****ing whiny bitch for the last 6 months.

I never said I was always right dumbass, but definitely far more often that you two whiny ****s.

Let me guess. You were suuuuuuper patient with Justin Houston in his 2011 rookie season.

He has admitted his opinion is 100% based on who he wanted to draft and he is mad about it. Pretty comical. His hate for George has nothing to do with George's performance and is solely to do with he didn't get what he wanted.

The funniest thing is he hasn't even been proven right at this point to even be mad about it.

you guys know full well karlaftis is getting 2 sacks sunday and we're going to be stroking it hard in this thread

It's really hard to have a conversation with someone when blanket facts are wrong.

Thibodeaux has 2 sacks as well in case anyone cared to bring up how many more he sacks has than Karlaftis...

I just don't understand it. No one is claming Karlaftis or Moore has played at a superstar level. There are those of who are judging them as a final product and those of us who understand that these are rookies with inevitable growing pains and maturation.

There are also those saying he's a rookie who'll need time but hasn't been particularly good. I reckon the last 2 games he's been a little better, not just shown by the sacks.

He was an end of the first/early second round DE.

People having expectations of this going differently or similarly to a learning curve of a guy going in the top 5 at DE were always going to be upset/wrong. That's on them.

I'm sorry, but when he was just getting pressures and not sacks, I could understand, but now that the sacks are coming, if you're still not satisfied, it's because your expectations are clearly too high or you don't want to be.

Karlaftis is doing exactly what you want your SDE to do. You want huge sack production? That is the WDEs responsibility. Get after Frank Clark

He has identical measurables to Nick Bosa and doesn’t turn 22 until next April. I’m going to relax on this one. I don’t think he’ll ever be a consistent high teen sacks guy. Probably closer to 10-13 a year. But that will still be a win

If sacks are all that matters (and not pressures), OBJ is going to reset the LT market.

If pressures actually matter, then not so much.

anyone claiming sacks are the end all be all needs to watch this. Trey Hendrickson didn’t have a sack on the boxscore but he was ruining plays for us and putting Orlando Brown Jr in hell.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Trey Hendrickson didn&#39;t have a sack on Sunday, but he was still generating a ton of pressure. He had whatever he wanted against Orlando Brown. Either swipes around the outside or speed to power right through him. <a href="https://t.co/17BEwkf370">pic.twitter.com/17BEwkf370</a></p>&mdash; Mike (@bengals_sans) <a href="https://twitter.com/bengals_sans/status/1600120937277423618?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 6, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Anyone, claiming not finishing a play is ok is just making excuses for a limited player. Who's suppose to help the passrush yet the Chiefs still need a better passrush.

Sacks don't qualify as finishing plays now?

Just admit that you've now moved the goalposts. At least that would be intellectually honest.

Be honest, you're being homer if you're not looking at the situation of 5hose sacks a coverage and a sack against a 3rd stringer. I even said as such before the Rams game

So we've established that pressures weren't good enough because they weren't sacks, now sacks alone aren't good enough either.

You posted the other rookie's sack totals (some which were completely off) with ZERO context. I'm sure none of those were coverage sacks and they were all agaisnt All-Pros.

What a twat you are.

I'm not trying to troll here, I just don't see Karlaftis making these kinds of plays consistently.

And Trey Hendrickson was as a rookie?

Karlaftis has already surpassed his rookie sacks total.

It's absurd that you guys think a 21 year old rookie is supposed to be a finished product.