Yep, looks like he did just that

He chose neither.

I think there's a bit of an unwritten rule that says you don't block guys for interviewing for promotions (I'm of the belief that when teams do that, they're running cover for the guy they're 'blocking').

I think Clark swallowed hard, recognized the scouting success Dorsey had, hoped that he'd be able to keep Ballard and if he couldn't, that Dorsey could man the ship on his own.

But/for the record, it sounds like Dorsey would've gotten the ax and Ballard promoted. But I think that was a tough pill for Clark to swallow without knowing for sure. The slapdickery around Maclin was probably what he needed to see.

He stayed on 16 against a 10.

Maybe it's smart, maybe it's not, it's defensible either way and completely outcome determinant.

Personally, I always hit on a hard 16 (showing 7 or better, of course) but I don't criticize those that don't. The odds are tight either way and you can't know if you were right until the cards fall.

He stayed and hoped it worked out. When the Maclin thing came down, dealer flipped an 8. Shit happens.

Interesting stuff. Starting to make more sense. I still think you go with the scout heavy Veach and hope he grows into the other stuff. In the end, the draft is the lifeblood.

In other news Favre wants to be a coach or a gm

What more could he have done at this point?

The specific examples given in the article don't seem to rise to the level of firing a GM with a very good eye for talent. Hogan was a wasted pick, but it was a 5th rounder. And extending Fisher and LDT weren't horrible moves.

It appears that he was aware of the problem but didn't look into it any further until after Ballard was allowed to leave.

I agree, it's 100% Clark's fault. He's set it up to where the head of each department (Coaching, Team President and GM) report to him, not to each other or another buffer.

Had all three of those department heads reported to a COO, then as CEO, Clark would have likely made the decision some time ago.

IMO, either Clark needs to be more involved in the Day to Day operations (i.e., literally work at One Arrowhead Drive all year) or he needs to hire a COO to oversee the franchise and keep him informed.

Clark is also not getting good PR advising on how to handle this situation apparently.

The best thing to do would have been to have a press conference, address what happened, rather than allowing the drip drip rumors/speculation to leak out.

The story could have been essentially put to bed as the NFL enters its slowest time of year and then the focus in late July would be on the hiring of the new GM and the start of training camp.

Now the focus of the press conference to announce the new GM (assuming there is a press conference and Clark is present/taking questions at it) will still be on the decision to fire Dorsey.

Not good PR management.

See Post 1849

You expect Clark to come out and say why he fired a GM?

Does opening yourself up to a lawsuit seem like it would bring positive PR?
Does justifying your decision to the masses by publicly airing dirty laundry between you and a former employee bring positive PR?
Can you imagine what prospective GMs would think if Hunt was unprofessional and discourteous enough to drag this fractured relationship into the court of public opinion?

Clark stating that it was a mutual parting-of-ways is the professional and smart thing to do.

So were two Pro Bowlers in DJ Alexander and Ty Hill.

"But it was a 5th rounder" is a shitty excuse.

Those are valuable picks.

He never stated that it was a "mutual parting".

“I notified John that we would not be extending his contract beyond the 2017 season, and after consideration, we felt it was in his best interests and the best interests of the team to part ways now,” Hunt said.

That's a firing.

No they aren't.

They're lottery tickets that pan out about 10% of the time based on studies done. Not batting 1.000 on your 1/10 shots is most assuredly not an indictment on one's performance.

"It was a 5th rounder" is a wholly acceptable justification. The odds of succeeding with a 5th round pick are only slightly higher than any run of the mill UDFA. And as such, their marginal value is next to nothing.

so Ballard was the brains that kept all this working.

Indy got a good one

I am pretty sure all the picks are valuable. You just have to know what you need and what player has the capability of learning how to be an NFL player.

Oh I see, this one decision which you have zero knowledge of what was actually going on behind closed doors means Clark hasn't done well.

Got it.

I think Clark has earned the benefit of the doubt up to this point.


BTW who was the GM that traded 2 2nd round picks for Alex Smith?

Agree to disagree.

There are scores of 5th rounders across the league, including two Pro Bowlers currently on the Chiefs roster.

It's fine if fans want to refer to them as "just" 5th rounders but I doubt you find a guy in the league that feels that way.

That wasn't the conclusion that I had drawn from the article.

I've failed to see a reason why they couldn't have hired someone to fill Ballard's job to help Dorsey with with organizational duties. He might not have been the prototypical GM but surely had to be acknowledged for the players he's drafted.

Bringing in a constant influx of cheap talent will keep you out of cap-hell and competitive.

As far as I can tell, they haven't had to cut any productive players. Maclin was borderline...

Unless they hope to find someone that is relatively good in both qualities... hopefully

1. Nobody fires their GM this late. It was a poor business move.
2. Clark wanted to keep Pioli after he burned his franchise to the ground.He hasn't earned my trust.
3. Who was the GM that drafted 3 all pro's in 4 years?

The details are slowly leaking out, so I disagree with the notion that anyone has "zero knowledge" of what was happening.

Hard to argue against these points. The calamity that has resulted in Dorsey's firing is as much to me a result of an owner that is less dialed into the day-to-day operations of the franchise than he likely should have been IMO.

If the details are accurate then Dorsey was basically doing his own thing and not listening to the scouting department (Kevin Hogan was the example given) or others so I have no issue with what Clark did.

Its fairly obvious Maclin was the final straw and that happened after Ballard left.

For all we know Clark was trying to make it work and that was the tipping point.

Though if player evaluation is his strong suit it is hard to get upset for him making the final call. So he blew a 5th rounder.

Not really upset with the McClain thing. Well besides the tampering and losing a 2nd rounder was upsetting. He was never worth a 2nd rounder to begin with and the penalty seemed harsh considering that pretty much everyone did it as well, just a little better at it. But he really never fit the offense. He is a speed wr and we have a QB who only throws short.

The cap problems I can understand. The Hogan/McClain not so much.

Albert Breer interview on 610: He says that the feeling in summary was that Dorsey was a great scout, not a great general manager.

What if it is that simple? Given all that we know, that seems like a fair viewpoint.

Too simple for this place. Here we need a grand conspiracy or it's not true.

It very well may be that simple. The feeling for many of us is that if it is that simple then it feels like a huge mistake and that Clark is placing too much value on the business side vs the talent side.

It's like divorcing your supermodel because she's a terrible cook. You can find a new wife that can cook without any trouble, but chances are she's gonna be ugly.

I disagree.

If the leader of the organization is sloppy, unorganized, increasingly insular, doesn't share his thoughts and motives while making head scratching decisions, all signs point to disaster.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: John Dorsey is not the only guy in the NFL that does a agreat job of scouting and drafting.

A 22-4 disaster? What head scratching decisions (plural) are you talking about? There is voicemail to Maclin and......

Good ****ing god

I understand that point of view and am willing to admit that I really don't have the background to say for sure that Clark made a mistake here. There is so much we don't know about who the real genius is behind finding the hidden talent we've found over the last 4 years. Dorsey may be getting way too much credit. If that is the case then this was probably the right move because Dorsey did have serious flaws on the contract/cap side.

The frustrating part is that we will never know for sure how this went down and will only find out over the next few years whether it is as easy as you say to find someone who can keep drafting well.

What? How much more info do you need?

Terez, Mellinger, LaCanfora, Jason Cole and now Breer have each added more pictures to the puzzle.

It's pretty clear what "went down".

Typical quote from an insular Chiefs fan.

You guys wonder why other teams are having better, quicker success (along with Super Bowl appearances and victories) than the Chiefs every year.

The Chiefs hire a guy that was more scout than GM, won a bunch of regular season games, was fired and now, he's impossible to replace.

This type of dumbassery is maddening.

Duffy could be joining this team about a week from now

As GM?

Wrong thread my bad but Danny Duffy as gm hmm couldn't be any worse than Pioli

Which is why if Clark was souring on Dorsey, he should have pulled the trigger then.

"As one source explained it, “It wasn’t dysfunction so much as it was decisions were being made that seemed to come out of nowhere. So that existed, but the people here weren’t aware that ownership was aware of it. … You look back now, how it worked out, and ownership was more aware that it didn’t need to be run that way.”

So, Dorsey was a poor communicator and whiffed on a 5th round QB. That's pretty thin justification from CHunt.

GM Ballard will be our QB Marino.

If only...because Chiefs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dysfunctional? Clark? Heh.
On a side note, 25,000 posts.

As usual you are clueless.

Since Ballard left and Dorsey's so called ineptitude/gut instinct kicked in what has happened?

- Signed Logan to replace Poe. (most people on this board approved the signing and thought it was an overall gain).
- Extended Berry. (most people wanted Berry extended considering the role he plays in the Defense. Plus, Berry basically won two games for the team last year. There is some criticism he didn't get the deal done the year before, but IMO, it was a very peculiar situation with a player returning from cancer, etc.)
- Extended LDT. (Mixed views on this extension. Only time will tell if it was good or bad).
- Drafted a QB in the first round for the first time since Blackledge. (Overwhelming fan approval).
- Had a solid draft on paper - typical Dorsey low floor high ceiling DL, a good RB, etc.
- Released Maclin . (Probably the right move considering his inability to stay healthy, but handled poorly in terms of PR).

Sorry, but the off-season positives far outweigh the negatives.

They are many head scratchers. Contracts and draft picks getting cut and other things.

I sure hope not. Ballard crushed it this offseason. Outstanding deals in FA and a good draft.

Per Albert Breer on 610: Fitterer and Cowden are known as "extremely detail oriented and organized".

Well that says a lot. Interesting that Howie Roseman was essentially a Brett a Veach in philly when he got moved up. Veach would have plenty of time to learn the job throughout the season.

You are missing the part where Clark had to step in and get Berry's contract done because Dorsey couldn't or wouldn't.

And the Maclin move is bad no matter how you want to look at it. Not because he is critical but because we paid $24MM to him on a 2 year contract basically and are eating dead $ because of it.

The Berry situation was a no win situation for a GM. If he signed Berry immediately on his return without seeking some type of pay back guaranty in the event his cancer comes back, or he was not able to play, everyone would have crucified Dorsey.

Did you want Maclin? Were you happy when he was signed? Did he seem like an excellent fit his first year?

If there is one thing this team needs, it's a better strength and conditioning coach.

Cowden should take care of the "hire Cowher, hire Gruden" portion of the fanbase.

Clark had to do Berry's contract, thats inexcusable, I don't know what else to say to that.

Maclin set the Chiefs season record for reception by a WR in 2015 and caught 10 TD's so yea I wanted him and I was happy with him. He was also a Reid want.

And frankly I would still rather have him rather than cutting him after a down year he had injuries. And he isn't injury prone.

Maclin is gone due to terrible cap management. Period.

Ok, fine, we know what went down. I guess what I mean is that unless I'm actually witnessing how things happen and what the environment was actually like, I tend to be skeptical about second hand opinions.

For my part, I don't wonder why other teams have quicker success than us. It comes down to QB. Name one team that has had quicker and more success than us with a worse QB. This is not me bitching about Smith, simply stating the fact that it is an accepted fact that Smith is not as good of a QB as Peyton Manning, Russel Wilson, and maybe Dak Prescott. What other team has had more quick success than we have had except for the Broncos, Seahawks and Cowboys? Those teams had a good supporting cast that just needed a spark at QB to really take off. I'm giving Reid and Dorsey equal credit for turning the team around. Dorsey got guys who could play and Reid coached them up.

I'm not saying he's irreplaceable, just that his record is good enough that firing him now, during an unusual time to fire a GM, based on the reasons that have been suggested by reporters seems like an overreaction. If Dorsey goes for more than a year without getting another crack at GM or returning to GB to wait out Thompson, I will be surprised and will say that Chiefs' fans take on his skills as a GM were incorrect. If he was as bad at the non-scouting part of being a GM as is being suggested then there is no way any team should ever consider him for GM again. We are basically saying that no amount of success in the draft can overcome the negatives he carries with him as a GM.

They drafted Hogan then Foles became available...He ended up winning a game. Russell was a strange one but Hill more than made up for it. How many rookie all-pros have been drafted in the 5th round...ever?

Did you know Denver hasn't drafted a pro-bowl player in 5 years? People are taking for granted how hard it is to do..it's become expected in KC.

As far as the Berry deal...I dont blame Dorsey one bit for how he handled it. Berry is a being prima donna bitch...he got payed $10,600,000 on the tag after missing (and being paid) the previous year. He can pout all he wants. Dorsey was protecting Hunt in case Berry tanked. It was a situation the has never happened in the NFL...and needed to be approached with caution.

You dont make a player, that is in cancer remission, the highest paid at his position on a whim and hope...

When the NFL does its revisionist 2016 re-draft article..both Hill and Jones will be top 10 picks. That is insane value for a mid-2nd and 5th rounder. They also re-drafted Kelce and Morse in the 1st. So that's 4 1st round grades on two seconds, one third and a fifth round pick.

Schwartz was a 2nd team all-pro last year too, Shawn Smith was a steal, Maclin set a KC WR record...and then there is Peters.

I'm less than optimistic that the new GM will replicate that stellar track record...

Eagles released dgb. would CP want to get him

Hell no!

It's a lot easier to "crush" the offseason when you have $53 million in cap space there to work with.

Why not try to renegotiate with Maclin? Supposedly it was never even attempted.

Cap space doesn't have anything to do with the draft.

Uh, yeah, it does

I don't remember seeing him play at all. Is he that bad?

Do you really expect John Dorsey and Clark Hunt to detail every event for you?

This is short sighted nonsense.

Instead of signing a journeyman QB in 2013 or giving the starting job to Chase Daniel, the Chiefs traded two second round picks for Alex Smith, who's proven to be a short term solution and has one playoff win in 4 attempts.

Meanwhile, teams like the Raiders, Titans and Buccaneers didn't go for a "Quick Fix" and are set up long term with their quarterbacks and franchises.

Now, the Chiefs are way behind the 8 Ball and are essentially starting over in 2018, as it's likely they'll start the 2nd year QB while losing players like Hali, DJ, Bailey, Colquitt and more. Not only is their cap in bad shape, even after they cut these players, they'll need to find adequate replacements.

Wut

It's pretty clear that you have no experience in upper management or with CEO's. If there's a slowly, festering toxic environment in the workplace, that will bring an organization of any kind down more quickly than you can imagine.

Clark felt that was already happening and put a stop to it.

Who is "we"?

What? Maclin is nearly the definition of injury prone.

We don't need Maclin. Should he have been offered a restructure? Probably. Should Andy have been told? Hell yes. Should it have been handled better? Of course.

We need our young WRs to get on the field to get experience for when Mahomes starts next year. Dorsey wanted Maclin off the team no matter what most likely and we needed the money. It was handled like ass but the result would have been the same.

I don't know how you have the energy to fight this stupidity, Dane.

People still bitching about Alex Smith? Jesus.

I have a bad cold and can't really do much else today :D

solid! :clap:

Oh bullshit. Rookie salary slotting minimizes the draft salary cap impact. In fact, the Colts had a rookie salary allotment 800k higher than the Chiefs. 6m for the Chiefs and 6.8m for the Colts. No excuses.

Shut the **** up, Dummy.

Why do you think the Chiefs had to cut Jeremy Maclin?

BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH CAP SPACE TO SIGN ALL OF THEIR DRAFT CHOICES.

Hunt and Kpassagnon signed just a few days after Maclin was cut.

And Mahomes STILL isn't signed.

You're a ****ing dumb ass.

No, I don't expect that.

I don't know what you are arguing against with the comment about the Raiders, Bucs and Titans. Your initial comment was that I wonder why other teams have quicker and better success than the Chiefs. I'm saying I agree that it's due to getting the QB right. We went for the best option to get winning seasons, but probably not SB wins. I think we are on the same side of the argument here. I'm not sure how what I said came across as saying the way the Chiefs went about solving the QB issue was the right way. I understand why they did it and it's been fun to win, but I am glad we've got Mahomes now and are trying to build the team the right way.

I was trying to make the point that teams that have improved faster than the Chiefs and have been more successful all had better QBs than Smith. The Broncos, Seahawks, and Cowboys were all teams that waited for the right QB to come along and got them. While they were waiting they built a strong roster outside of QB. Then with a good QB they were poised for quick success and except the Broncos, will maintain it. The teams you listed are the same way. Good examples.

I don't disagree that Clark should take action to fix a dysfunctional workplace. I just think he should have done it sooner. It's just hard to imagine that Clark would have gone from being okay with keeping Dorsey when he knew Ballard was going to leave, to firing him in the short amount of time that elapsed.

That was poorly phrased, my bad. I post from my phone and usually don't write the entire post in one sitting.

Hope you feel better and get over that cold. Not trying to pick a fight with you here.

How am I bitching about Smith?! I even said "I am not bitching about Smith"!

That's not an accurate assessment...as I've posted before, Carr has been the only QB KC could have had a reasonable shot at since signing Smith. Should they have moved up for Bortles? Dorsey waited until there was a QB they liked. The Chiefs arent losing anyone that isn't past their prime with the exception of possibly Bailey..and he missed almost all of last season. DJ looked slow last year before he was hurt. They are hardly starting over..their O-line is set, Houston and Berry are signed. Have Jones and Hill...Kelce.

You're making it sound like KC is going to have to cut their top players...

I think Dorsey planned on the mass exodus of their aging players next year...

One would have to be blind as a bat to not see that.

and i cant stop thinking, if it looks bad now, wait til dorsey comes clean and unloads on the chiefs organization. THAT is gonna be ugly!

i've really been round and round about this and it still ticks me off. ultimately, however, the guy that writes the checks wants his $ spent responsibly, and dorsey wasnt doing that.

if it really got noticeably worse in the management and organizational aspects after ballard left, clark had no choice but to make a change.

you can hire a scout type of guy who still needs seasoning, and pair him with a business oriented assistant to make it work well. i think i'm on board with veach and make sure he's got a right hand man with some management experience.

The Chiefs chose the quick and easy route. That's a fact. I'm not saying it was the wrong decision or the right decision but it's a fact, nonetheless.

And there's absolutely no doubt this team would be in a better position moving forward had they chosen Carr over Dee Ford (who I like as a player but obviously isn't a QB).

2014: Carr, Bridgewater, Garappolo, McCarron
2015: Hundley, Petty
2016: Lynch, Brissett, Kessler, Prescott

Can we not throw Wilson on the list? I think we can.

Dorsey wasn't the GM in 2012

Just saying another opportunity missed.

That doesn't apply to Dorsey, although he had his own "Wilson moment" by passing on Dak Prescott multiple times.

Had he taken Prescott instead of KeiVarie Russell, the Chiefs fortunes may have been very different last season.

What's the ****ing holdup? Clark's sick of handing out mega contracts for his GMs all of a sudden?

I wonder if Clark is actually leaning towards Scott Fitterer (I kind of prefer this option) and money is a bit of a tie-up. I don't think we'd be having negotiation problems like this if Clark were just going to promote from within.