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alpha_omega 08-07-2023 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdolfOliverBush (Post 17046642)
Does women's soccer generally bring in more revenue than men's, or does that only happen during World Cups?
I don't know, but a loss brings in lots of posts for the official soccer thread of CP.

JPH83 08-07-2023 12:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 17046624)
Why does this matter? Of course women's soccer player aren't nearly as good as men. What matters is what money they pull in. Unlike the wnba women's soccer pulls in a shitload and the growth potential is massive. Little girls idolize Alex morgan the way we idolize players like kelce and mahomes. They pull in entirely different fans and sponsors than men's teams. Do you realize how much money athletic apparel companies have made in women's apparel like sports bras since the women's first world cup?
I don't want to sound mean-spirited but I think there's some truth in Bill Burr's take on women's sports. For a number of them to really kick off it's going to take women actually paying to watch the teams they want us to.

chiefzilla1501 08-07-2023 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdolfOliverBush (Post 17046642)
Does women's soccer generally bring in more revenue than men's, or does that only happen during World Cups?
Men don't need this money as much because they're raking in a bajillion in pro soccer salary. From a national team level men's obviously rakes in more during world cup but the gap closes since women are more likely to make a deep run while men generally do not. This year is an exception, but keep in mind several years ago men didn't even qualify for the world cup at all. This is why you don't hear men complaining. That gap will continue to close as the international game is rapidly growing in popularity.

It doesn't have to be a Tug of war of who deserves more money. Men understand that. Growing women's soccer is great for men. It has a ton of growth potential so everyone makes more money. And if the women's game popularity grows, that carries over to the men when they compete too. The reason why equal pay is pretty important right now is because the women's game needs the most help right now.

AdolfOliverBush 08-07-2023 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 17046674)
The reason why equal pay is pretty important right now is because the women's game needs the most help right now.
The fact that the women's game "needs help" means they don't deserve equal pay right now. They don't bring in as much revenue as men because they can't produce a product of equal caliber.

chiefzilla1501 08-07-2023 12:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPH83 (Post 17046666)
I don't want to sound mean-spirited but I think there's some truth in Bill Burr's take on women's sports. For a number of them to really kick off it's going to take women actually paying to watch the teams they want us to.
For the wnba yes. The uswnt is different. They're killing it in ratings and sponsorships and that includes their exhibition tours in off years. The demand is more than there. Not to mention the gazillions these parents have spent on everything from uswnt jerseys to sports bras and cleats.

What's lacking is investment. From fifa who's done an absolutely shitty job promiting on a world stage, to investors committed to building good teams. It took decades to build MLS not after decades of struggle and that soaked up the priority. But the same devotion and resources were not put into the women's game. For good reason but now that tides changing. What you need is more people like brittany and Patrick mahomes who can commit to growing a market and the league the way the Hunts did. It won't measure up to even MLS but it also doesn't have to to be very successful

chiefzilla1501 08-07-2023 12:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdolfOliverBush (Post 17046694)
The fact that the women's game "needs help" means they don't deserve equal pay right now. They don't bring in as much revenue as men because they can't produce a product of equal caliber.
The men's league needed help for decades. Especially after the fiasco where they didn't even qualify a few years ago. For decades you had major markets pulling in usfl attendance. They got through because US soccer was hellbent on getting through the tough times. In prioritizing men's soccer they didn't put the same attention to women's pro soccer.

That's even assuming a us women's pro league is even vital to success. They're raking in good money even without a viable pro league.. The bigger obstacle has been growing the game internationally which is not a US problem. That's obviously changing.

It's not like they're growing this out of thin air. The demand is there. Sponsors are chomping at the bit to be a part of it. There just hasn't been the commitment to building infrastructure. Equal pay helps quite a bit and that's great for both men and women

GloryDayz 08-07-2023 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 17046419)
That is a reasonable take. I wish more critics shared it. But sadly I think a lot of the critics go well beyond the "shut up and dribble." Most of the uswnt was lowkey but still got sniped. Nfl fans moved on after Kaepernick went away and I think uswnt will drift there too, but I don't know that many critics will move on. Some seem hellbent to cut women and girls down, regardless of their social stance, and that aspect of some of the criticism is gross to me. It's cool to see the sport grow and to see girls excited with dreams to aspire to. Like youre doing you can push back on that messaging without cutting girls down
Make no mistake, not only was the most visible USWNT player "pro" certain political topics, she made it known what political topics she was "anti" toward too, I think that became a sideshow that was an additional distraction that hurt the team.

For the sake of the USWNT I'm very happy she's gone.

GloryDayz 08-07-2023 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyHammersticks (Post 17046529)
Seeing this disgrace to America cry really warms my heart. Karma is an even bigger bitch than she is/was. Good riddance.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-theme="dark"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Megan Rapinoe is a clown. <a href="https://t.co/d3dLTXeq5E">pic.twitter.com/d3dLTXeq5E</a></p>&mdash; Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) <a href="https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1688284238830026752?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 6, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I suspect those players in the locker room are happy she's gone, they just can't say it because they would risk retribution, being cancelled, and even black-balled.

DJJasonp 08-07-2023 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdolfOliverBush (Post 17046694)
The fact that the women's game "needs help" means they don't deserve equal pay right now. They don't bring in as much revenue as men because they can't produce a product of equal caliber.
it has been, and always will be.......all about money.

Once the WNT starts bringing in the same kind of TV contracts and advertising contracts as the men - they'll get paid the same.

That simple.

chiefzilla1501 08-07-2023 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GloryDayz (Post 17046744)
Make no mistake, not only was the most visible USWNT player "pro" certain political topics, she made it known what political topics she was "anti" toward too, I think that became a sideshow that was an additional distraction that hurt the team.

For the sake of the USWNT I'm very happy she's gone.
Yeah, I don't disagree with you. I get why people don't like her.

chiefzilla1501 08-07-2023 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJJasonp (Post 17046768)
it has been, and always will be.......all about money.

Once the WNT starts bringing in the same kind of TV contracts and advertising contracts as the men - they'll get paid the same.

That simple.
The US men make money because we invested heavily in them even when the fans, attendance and advertisers weren't there and the US men's product was so bad they were getting totally schooled on an international stage.

It's actually not that simple because it takes time and investment. The US men are at a maturity stage but only because of decades of effort. Women's soccer internationally is still largely in infancy. Either invest in its potential or watch the world pass us by which it did for men's soccer for decades. You have to skate to where the puck is going as much as you skate to where it is.

tredadda 08-07-2023 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 17046437)
It first starts with FIFA. they notoriously underinvested including tournament pay. They're hopefully starting to finally realize the benefit. They can grow the women's game without cutting down the men's game. They're raking in a shitload from sponsors like Nike who can now explode sales on sports bras. Or women's hygiene product sponsors, for example. The women's international sport is growing which is good for soccer overall. The US losing actually adds to intrigue since the sport is so dependent on international competition. So clearly there is untapped growth potential.

Understandably the focus in the US has been on building a better US men's team. It should be that way. So US soccer went all in on building MLS. They arguably even were willing to skunk the US national team by blackballing men's players who dared to play in Europe. Thank God thats changed. During those years the women did carry a lot of weight. The men lost a lot of money when they sucked and women's revenue helped US soccer rebuild anyway.

MLS and men's soccer are at a maturity point where they can invest in women's soccer. In fact they have more incentive because of equal pay. It's now a collective goal where growing women's soccer also helps men's soccer. And that's doable because they arguably have very distinct audiences. It's not like you're cannibalizing MLS profits. It's a chance to grow new fans and sponsors.
While I appreciate your stance, at least in America sponsors pay for ads where they will get the most eyeballs. Women do not watch women's soccer and men by and large do not care outside of big events like the World Cup. Even then the revenue generated by the men's World Cup dwarfs the women's one. FIFA can't invest more money in tournament pay than they bring in. Perhaps they can bump it higher, but no way the women come close to what the men make without robbing Peter to pay Paul.

If paragraph two is accurate then that says something and it's fair to think the men's team should reimburse the women's one for that.

Good luck on growing women's soccer outside of the national team. We can call it what we want or excuse it how we want, but the fact is no one cares about professional women's sports leagues in America. Men by and large do not want to watch women compete unless they are scantily dressed. Women do not follow women's sports. If they were to care even a little then the whole narrative would change, but as it stands, more women watch men's sports than their own.

tredadda 08-07-2023 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 17046674)
Men don't need this money as much because they're raking in a bajillion in pro soccer salary. From a national team level men's obviously rakes in more during world cup but the gap closes since women are more likely to make a deep run while men generally do not. This year is an exception, but keep in mind several years ago men didn't even qualify for the world cup at all. This is why you don't hear men complaining. That gap will continue to close as the international game is rapidly growing in popularity.

It doesn't have to be a Tug of war of who deserves more money. Men understand that. Growing women's soccer is great for men. It has a ton of growth potential so everyone makes more money. And if the women's game popularity grows, that carries over to the men when they compete too. The reason why equal pay is pretty important right now is because the women's game needs the most help right now.
But it doesn't though. How long has the WNBA been around? Has their "success" fed into the popularity of the NBA at all? 20+ years and they still need the NBA to subsidize them. That should say a lot right there. Growing women's sports is not as easy as you make it.

Also when you say equal pay, what do you support? Equal salary? Or equal % of revenue? In other words if the men get 15% of the revenue they generate, do the women also get 15% of the revenue they generate?

DJJasonp 08-07-2023 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 17046806)
The US men make money because we invested heavily in them even when the fans, attendance and advertisers weren't there and the US men's product was so bad they were getting totally schooled on an international stage.

It's actually not that simple because it takes time and investment. The US men are at a maturity stage but only because of decades of effort. Women's soccer internationally is still largely in infancy. Either invest in its potential or watch the world pass us by which it did for men's soccer for decades. You have to skate to where the puck is going as much as you skate to where it is.
You're ignoring the bottom line: 20 years from now, the women's world cup will still pull a massively smaller amount than the men's world cup.

It has nothing to do with investment, it has to do with viewership, and how popular a sport is.

When the US mens team was awful (80s and 90s?), the world cup was still the largest sporting event in the world.

Women's pay for soccer - just like any other sport - has to do with TV contracts, stadium deals, advertising, etc. etc.

When women's soccer is as popular as men's......they'll see ronaldo and Messi sized contracts.

So yeah, when pigs fly.....

ToxSocks 08-07-2023 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GloryDayz (Post 17046744)
Make no mistake, not only was the most visible USWNT player "pro" certain political topics, she made it known what political topics she was "anti" toward too, I think that became a sideshow that was an additional distraction that hurt the team.

For the sake of the USWNT I'm very happy she's gone.
This.

You want men to start spending money on your sport? Then maybe get out of politics that suggest men = the bad guy.

No? Ok. That's fine. Then let women support your sport.

Oh, what's that? Women in general couldn't give a damn about sitting there for 3 hrs watching sports, let alone PAY for it?

Well that's quite the conundrum you've found yourself in then, isn't it?


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