It was called - umpire at 3b clearly put his arm straight up as Arenado pursued the fly. That was when the IF fly was called (and why the runner at 1b was still declared out).

At that point the rule is that the force is no longer in order and any runner has to be tagged. So when DeJong took the relay at 3b, tagged the bag and fired to 2b, nothing actually happened and that runner is still safe. The throw to 2b was also not a force.

The problem comes with the umpire at 2b. He made an 'out' call at 2b, presumably because he missed the infield fly call. In calling the runner out on the force, he presumed the runner vacated the bag after being called out. That's when the umpire realized he ****ed up and called time.

Since he called time before the tag was put on the runner, he waived off the out (even though the tag should've secured the out). The problem is that his presumption was incorrect - the runner had overrun the bag independent of the out call. Calling time was A) wrongheaded and B) just wrong. It was based on a faulty assumption and frankly even if it wasn't, the umpire doesn't get to just call time mid-play like that.

The runner at 2b should've been out (runner at 3b safe) but the ump at 2b gacked the call and then the crew chief backed his guy.

Yes, had they tagged the runner at 3rd initially instead of stepping on the base it would have been game over. I wonder if the ump just wasn't heard. It is strange all around. You don't run if you hear the infield fly called, or at least you should be damn sure you can make it, and that certainly wasn't the case.

Based on that, then the runners should have scored in the ATL playoff game?

They didn’t advance in that game. The butthurt in Atlanta was that the infield fly shouldn’t have been called in the first place.

Correct.

Braves were pissed that IF fly was called at all. Once it's called, it's final. The instant the IF fly was signaled, the batter was out.

The runners advanced (which they could do either way) but the batter was out regardless of what happened at that point. When the ball fell between Kozma and Holliday, the Braves believed it should've been bases loaded and 1 out instead of runners on 2nd and 3rd and two out.

By rule they were wrong. And frankly I still believe the umpires got that call right.

And the IF fly rule is the simplest rule imaginable yet it ALWAYS gets screwed up somehow.

I got in an argument with a buddy on a slow-pitch team where he popped up a ball with a runner on 1b to SS and walked down the line. The umpire didn't call IFF, the ball hit the ground and the SS went ahead and turned the DP.

He was pissed that IFF fly wasn't called - it isn't supposed to be. He was wound up because the IFF is designed to keep the 'intentional drop, turn the DP' thing from happening. I had to explain to him that it doesn't consider a batter being lazy or throwing a temper tantrum and getting himself forced out at 1b for the DP.

There has to be 2 baserunners who are in a 'force out' position (i.e. 1st and 2nd or 1st, 2nd and 3rd) and less than 2 outs. If there are runners at 2nd and 3rd, no IFF. If there's just a runner at 1b, no IFF because the idea is that the runner at 1st still runs to 2b and the runner at the plate replaces him at first if the ball is dropped. If there are 2 outs there's no IFF because there is no utility in letting the ball drop.

It's really damn limited. And its impact is also super straightforward. It's really bizarre to me that fans, players and occasionally even umpires will mess this up. The best I can figure is that the confusion springs up when players just don't hear the call.

And yes, the Braves play was absolutely an IFF call even though it was in the OF grass because Kozma (an IFer) had settled under the ball and could've let it drop, then fired to 3rd for one and back over to 2b for two.

Would you guys rather have the Giants or the Dodgers in a one game showdown?


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Dodgers.

Not because they're easier to beat - but because they're far harder.

Gimme a coin-flip game. Bad teams can beat good teams in a single game. Have the worst team in MLB play the best team 10 times and 1/3 of the time, that shitty team will win.

Have them play 10 seven game series and the shitty team won't win a single one of those series.

Gimme the Dodgers in a coin-flip game. If we can knock them off, we have the Giants and Braves/Phillies/Brewers to get through for another pennant. Well the Cardinals can play any of those 4 straight up. The Dodgers are the only ones a clear step ahead of the Cardinals talent wise. We might get lucky in a 1-off play-in game, we won't be beating them in a 5-game seris.

I want NO part of seeing Scherzer - Buehler - Kershaw - Scherzer - Buehler in a 5 game series against a team that has Justin Turner as probably its worst regular player.

Give me the Dodgers in the WC game. It's the only real shot we have at getting to the NLCS.

The rule also states "ordinary effort." Kozma was probably 100 feet from his position and the only time he really "settled" under anything was at the exact moment he peeled off of the play and let the ball drop as it landed another 10 feet behind him.

Even if he intentionally let the ball drop in front of him there's no way a double play is made as he was so deep in the outfield both runners were taking leads on the play. The runner on 2nd was 20 feet off the bag when Kozma was "settling under the ball."

How far would you say that ball would need to travel from where it dropped to 3B and then to 2B? 300 feet, give or take? Even if they are throwing the ball 90mph with picture perfect placement on the throw and record speed on transfers, it's mathematically impossible to get that ball to 2B before an even below average MLB runner, that's at least 1/3 of the way to 2B, could get there. The throw would get there at least 1 second late. And in terms of throwing a baseball 90mph 90 feet, 1 second means the 3B hasnt even released the ball yet.

Dodgers as DJ said, because they are going to be tough to beat. 1 game is our only chance. No way we best then in a 7 game series.

Loser say what?

So, I'm enjoying this run.

But I'm still incredibly pissed off.

FO literally did nothing during the season to make the team better. Happ and Lester are just warm bodies who are pumpkins and a historic win streak literally is putting them in a play-in game.

This team could have been division contenders if the FO literally did anything in June to stabilize the rotation or improve the bullpen.

There is 17

Punched their playoff ticket with No. 17. :thumb:

I guess I'm eating a full murder of crows because I thought they'd be lucky to finish at .500.

I hate to say this, but to be fair, they were underperforming, looked lackadaisical all the time and uninterested.

Who would we have given up? Gorman? Liberatore? Unless your trading them, your not getting a difference maker. So trading shit for shit and hoping to get some positive innings out of the old geezers was the best you can do.