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If you stop-gap to buy time, fine. But the difference is likely to be a few million per and that's just not really a big enough savings to bother, imo. From a TEAM BUILDING perspective, you could really build a dominant defensive front four with relative ease out of this draft, and be set for quite a while. All while likely adding a significant upgrade at RB and probably a TE or WR addition as well. |
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You miss on draft picks, you gotta go spend to cover that.
It happens. I guess the GOAT QB needs alot more help than we thought. |
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I'm not signing on for Cam Robinson or some other pile of shit just to say we addressed LT with a vet in FA. That's as bad as trotting out Morris again, literally. |
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I'd trade up for a LT prospect in round 1, not blow another 2nd or 3rd on a significant project. |
I'd rather keep trying to develop Kingsley over trading up for one of the guys we'd have available I think.
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I don't like to look at anything over a 1 year timeline (though I get it with Jones/Mahomes). And over a 2-3 year timeline, hammering the DL this draft, focusing on LT in FA and then if necessary approaching the LT position in a better LT year is going to better situate us. A concern I have with the overarching roster construction is that the 2023 and 2024 drafts may end up being little more than Rice and Worthy over a meaningful timeline. What that will do is FORCE us into the FA marketplace. Now you can probably be fine with a 2 year period of relatively average returns on your draft and be okay. But if you have 3, you're going to start to see some frayed edges on the roster and you're going to have to be more aggressive in FA. And by its very nature, you're going to overspend doing it. I think it's really important that we get this draft right. Not just for the players we'd add, but because 3 years of merely average returns from the draft will end up forcing us to make risker decisions in FA that may have really gnarly long-term consequences for us. Because if it's not FA where you decide to do that, it's going to be through re-stocking additional draft capital and that could end up being by trading Karlaftis (I don't see any way we trade McDuffie). We'd start to have to weigh a fair bit of spooky shit. I think easily the best path to 'getting this draft right' is attacking the DL -- very possibly in rounds 1 AND 2. Then maybe you see if there's a trade down at the top of 3 that can get you a little more capital in the 4th and/or through the 5th-6th rounds where we don't have anything. Then again, maybe Hicks takes a step forward, Wiley proves a starting TE and Kingsley/Nourzad end up our starting guards going forward and everything I said is largely rendered moot. But I'd rather let the draft come to us. The best, most sustainable teams in the league typically make their bones doing exactly that. |
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We move the goalposts a LOT with this offense. |
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LT was an abject disaster almost all season. LG was All Pro until Thuney had to salvage LT and then Caliendo was ****ing atrocious. C was All Pro RG was wildly inconsistent RT was middling to okay |
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The Mahomes shit is pretty misguided. Yeah he hasn’t been playing up to his standard, but when we needed him he turned it on until the whole ****ing team fell apart in the SB. Some of you guys need to be more grateful. Peyton Manning had Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Edgerrin James, Jeff Saturday and Tarik Glenn and he only won 1 SB and went to 2. Meanwhile Mahomes won back-to-back SB’s with MVS, Watson, Hardman, Toney, Skyy, Juju and rookie Rice as his WR’s. A little perspective goes a long way sometimes |
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From LG through to RT, Patrick Mahomes got better play than the overwhelming majority of quarterbacks. By a LOT for most of them. You've also assured us that Cam Robinson won't be good enough at LT. And god help us all if the Chiefs sign DJ Humphries. Kingsley is already as good as dead in your eyes. Nothing is going to be satisfactory for you -- Bottom line is you're just going to bitch about the offensive line regardless of what happens. Oh, unless we trade about 70% of our draft capital to move up to 15 and take an OT who's more likely to be worse than Robinson than better over the course of his rookie deal. |
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The same thing you guys all seem to want to do now with Pat. Mahomes won back to back SB's when he had the GOAT tight end playing his ass off and then the best defense in the league. If we want to go with the GOAT talk, he's just gotta make shit happen and win. |
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Guy doesn't pay my mortgage. He's entertainment. That said, I get more enjoyment and entertainment from observing and evaluating the game than I do by just shutting my brain off and saying "Won game -- neat!" |
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Tom Brady went a literal decade only playing in two Super Bowls while playing his best ball in large part because the team stagnated around him. Joe Montana won half of his Super Bowls throwing to the greatest WR of all time. Peyton Manning doesn't even belong in the conversation. Two Super Bowls in his career, one of them playing against a Rex Grossman offense that turned the ball over 5 times and one of them when he was the worst player on his team getting hard carried by a Super Team. |
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You think Joe Montana didn’t have help? You think Tom Brady didn’t have help? Or Bradshaw? Or Aikman? This is a terrible argument dude. It takes a team. And you are out of your mind if you think “help” for Mahomes is 5 LT’s, Justin Watson as WR1 in snap count and an old at the end of his days HOF TE the last 2 years. |
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You guys keep acting like he doesn't have anything to work on. My point is that he absolutely does. And the examples I've provided were almost entirely guys who didn't get there until they were later in their careers (or firmly in their primes) and simply knew ways to work around problems. Mahomes already knows many of those ways. There's more yet to learn. And the only way to learn those things is to acknowledge them. Fortunately Mahomes DOESN'T think the sun rises and sets with him. I've said all along I absolutely believe he'll continue to grow and develop as a player and will be able to do the things that Brady and Manning did so often to help his OL out and make them better than they were. Hint -- that ISN'T running around like he does when he feels pressure. He can already do things they've never even dreamed off. That raw ability is innate -- he has it and they didn't. And he has the drive they had. And he has the processing power. He just needs to realize there's a better mousetrap to be had here and in situations like that, try to be LESS spectacular. That's a lesson that can only be learned through time and experience. There's no reason in the world he won't learn it. Unless he spends as much time convincing himself that we should all just be grateful for what he is as you guys do. I suspect he won't. |
DJ is right here in that relative to your average OL, from LG to RT the Chiefs were more than adequate...
Which furthers the point I've made all month that LT is his kryptonite and they gotta establish some peace of mind for him back there or it won't matter what the rest of the line does. He doesn't handle the blindside pressure well. |
Rather than depend on Veach to strike gold at LT, the easier pathway to fixing your blindside pressure problem is
1) Help the LT a lot more than you have 2) Always make the quick passing game a priority with a solid to good run game to lean back on If you're only hope is "we have to acquire an elite LT", problems will continue... |
The easiest pathway is for the QB to deal with pressure better.
Now sometimes, absolutely just untenable. Guys getting ass kickings immediately and fast pressure isn't gonna work. But when there's none of that and the QB's eyes immediately go down because he's been hit, it's a problem. It ain't gonna matter who you got running routes if he can't get the ball to them. |
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"Help the LT more" is fine, but that's less guys in the pattern.
So you're gonna be throwing into tighter windows at that point. |
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Andy can want to have long developing routes and is OT on an island all day - but it won't work. You can still block with 5 and send 4+ guys into the pattern if you want, but you need to have them on quick routes and/or one-cut and go downfield concepts. The stuff we did against Houston. And unless they get Robinson or maybe Jackson, they should approach this entire offseason planning to do exactly that. Robinson and/or Jackson (or I guess Stanley) can give you the sort of pass blocking you need to try to do more of the stuff they were doing with Fisher/Schwartz. But without one of those guys, you cannot assume that anyone else you're adding will. And you can't try to adapt on the fly again like they did last year. It was obviously limited. |
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I'd imagine that isn't gonna happen with trading up for a LT with the holes the defense will have. |
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These are normal... 2023 #06 LT Paris Johnson Jr, Ohio State (played 2023 at RT, then 2024 at LT) #10 RT Darnell Wright, Tennessee (2023 and 2024 at RT) #11 LT Peter Skoronski, Northwestern (2023 and 2024 at LG) #14 RT Broderick Jones, Georgia (2023 and 2024 at RT, plan to move to LT in 2025) #27 LT Anton Harrison, Oklahoma (2023 and 2024 at RT) 2022: #06 LT Ikem Ekwonu, N.C. State #07 RT Evan Neal, Alabama #09 LT Charles Cross, Mississippi State #19 LT Trevor Penning, Northern Iowa #24 LT Tyler Smith, Tulsa 2021 #07 LT Penei Sewell, Oregon #13 LT Rashawn Slater, Northwestern #17 RT Alex Leatherwood, Alabama #23 LT Christian Darrisaw, Virginia Tech 2020 #04 LT Andrew Thomas, Georgia #10 LT Jedrick Wills, Alabama #11 OT Mekhi Becton, Louisville #13 LT Tristan Wirfs, Iowa #18 LT Austin Jackson, USC #29 RT Isaiah Wilson, Georgia This year's projections from Brugler are #06 LT Will Campbell, LSU #08 RT Armand Membou, Missouri #17 LT Josh Simmons, Ohio State #22 LT Kelvin Banks Jr, Texas #31 LT Josh Conerly Jr, Oregon #34 LT Donovan Jackson, Ohio State There's some variations on where on pretty much all of those guys but it definitely has the look and feel of several of these recent drafts. It could mirror 2023 or 2020 rather closely. If I'm projecting: #04 NE - LT Will Campbell #09 NYJ - RT Armand Membou #10 CHI - LT Josh Simmons #18 SEA - LT Kelvin Banks Jr (move him to OG, safety valve RT) #26 LAR - LT Josh Conerly Jr #27 BAL - LT/G Donovan Jackson, Ohio State This is why I think a pick-flop with MIN might be on the table for Conerly. Give them 63 for 97 in a move from 31 to 24. I'm not talking about throwing a bunch of picks away and moving to 10. You still have 66, 95, and 97 that way. That's if you can't get Alaric Jackson in FA. You probably pivot to re-signing Humphries or picking up a Jaylon Moore but you can't rely on that. |
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Veach thinking what we’re thinking fellas. We are so going DL with that first pick.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chiefs GM Brett Veach says this is a deep running back class, but adds: "In general, I think it's more of a defensive draft." Mentioned the defensive line and linebacker groups as deep.</p>— Charles Goldman (@goldmctNFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/goldmctNFL/status/1894436410863530492?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 25, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> |
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The cost of going up to get any "blue-chip" LT in ANY draft is going to cost a ton of draft capital though. You have to take one with a wart or two and coach them up. Problem is I don't exactly like Heck. Conerly and Banks are better prospects IMO than guys like Tyler Smith, Anton Harrison, and Trevor Penning were. Conerly gets bitch slapped playing out of position at RT by a top-15 ER in a loaded class for a rep and everyone thinks he's dogshit yet he gave up 2 sacks in over 1000 snaps in the BIG10 where half this loaded DL class is coming from. Yeah ok. |
So many different ways Veach can approach LT this offseason.
-Get a FA signing like Jackson or Stanley.....No early round OT drafted and I'd expect Kingsley to be our swing tackle and at some point take over at RT when Taylor is gone. -Strike out on a stud LT in FA, Could finally move Taylor to LT and either sign a cheap RT in FA or spend our 1st on a RT while Kingsley takes over for Taylor in a year or so. -Veach could be Veach and like he has shown in the past be super aggressive and make a crazy trade for a vet(9ers cutting cost and Silverback finally comes to KC for a couple of years?) or some other LT from Miami HA. OR puts all his chips in and trades up using multiple 1sts if needed and grabs a top 3 OT in the draft. Would it really surprise anyone if Veach went with one of these options? My hope is we get Jackson or Stanley in FA and while OTs are kinda think in this years draft, Guard seems like a strong position and while taking a guard early might not be sexy we could be hurting for OG play in a couple of years if not planning ahead. LT-Jackson/Stanley LG-Thuney OC-Creed RG-stud rookie RT-Taylor Spend that #31 on the best guard on the board! Also, NO I'm not confident that Morris or Kingsley can just simply be put in at RG and perform like we need. |
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Now LB, I could see him snagging a guy in 2 if one falls he likes alot. I'm more inclined to think about DE or CB in round 1. |
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We need a LT. This is not helping your argument bud |
Donovan Jackson wouldn't be a terrible fit but we're gonna have to sign someone.
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Kingsley, Morris, or Nourzad should be ready for it. |
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Welp this all but ends the “Kingsley developing at LT” talk. As if the corresponding move to G wasn’t a big enough clue, pretty much all of the KC media guys were floating it.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We asked Brett Veach about If Kingsley could still work at LT this offseason but he emphasized that he has a lot of upside at guard</p>— Cody Tapp (@codybtapp) <a href="https://twitter.com/codybtapp/status/1894450499367141783?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 25, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> |
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Sure, could be Thuney's future replacement, but much more likely that they see him as plug and play at RG. |
Jackson
Thuney Creed Kingsley Taylor Allegretti replacement = Nourzad Swing tackle = Morris Developmental tackle = Driskel Back to impressions instead of football = Caliendo Let’s ****! |
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Drafting a day 1 starting guard early means you gain tons of flexibility going forward. |
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We really need to be thinking about injecting some speed and playmaking into the offense.
Like there are people that would probably be upset but if you came out of the first 2 rounds with Burden and Judkins it would do a **** ton for the offense. |
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Idk what you guys are seeing but I would be extremely frustrated if we took Donovan Jackson over BPA and put him at LT. He’s a major project. He needs to be where belongs at G.
Abdul Carter killed that guy the entire 2nd half. Was whipping his ass. <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Donovan Jackson (LT) in pass pro vs Abdul Carter<br><br>Early on, timely throws, Jackson's two-hand punch, and a mean recovery vs a spin move kept Carter at bay<br><br>The tide began to shift before halftime, when Carter's freaky first step, bend, and white-hot motor started to take over <a href="https://t.co/pSFdiu2iaR">pic.twitter.com/pSFdiu2iaR</a></p>— Taylor Kyles (@tkyles39) <a href="https://twitter.com/tkyles39/status/1889825739920560327?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 12, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> |
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Secondly a WR 3 is a starter, he's also going to be behind 1 guy who is going to get suspended and coming off injury and another who while I like Worthy his body type says you might wanna manage snaps on him and points. |
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That's a good game for any LT going against the best player and pass rusher in the draft, more or less a guy learning the position on the fly. |
At the risk of bringing Crow to this thread breathing fire bc this is his guy….I will be objective and reasonable here.
Conerly was much better vs Carter than Jackson. Not a big fan of Conerly but I think he’s a better LT prospect. <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Josh Conerly Jr. in pass pro vs Abdul Carter<br><br>None of Carter's double swipes worked, but he did dip under Conerly late on a play both showed their burst off the ball<br><br>The ED's only real win came on a double swipe inside where the center made a heads-up play picking up the slack <a href="https://t.co/W1jbt9AKlg">pic.twitter.com/W1jbt9AKlg</a></p>— Taylor Kyles (@tkyles39) <a href="https://twitter.com/tkyles39/status/1889812131820040378?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 12, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> |
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We don't have a LT. We don't have a DT except Jones. We don't have a MLB. Once those questions are answered, I'd love to dive deep into other areas. Superficially, do I want a Round 1 WR to play the slot? Nope. I do like some day 2 guys, especially Jalen Royals, Jaylin Noel, and Tai Felton. Do I really want to spend a day 1 or 2 pick on a RB? Not at all. I'd take any one of Hampton, Johnson, or Henderson if they fell to 63 because I feel they'd be values. I'm content with spending out 4th on a guy though. Some very good RBs will fall into that range. I think there are areas on the defense that need to be shored up and this is a great class to do that in. There are quite a few CBs that fit what we do. There are alot of really good DTs and DEs in this class where we need a #2 and depth. The LB class is really good. We definitely need a WLB and a better depth player in that area. I feel like going all offense early in this draft would be a tough one to swallow. |
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And it's not like those OL were drafted very high. Besides Kingsley who are you talking about? Getting the best OL we can should be the single most important thing to Veach and the Chiefs. Nothing I have seen gives me confidence that Kingsley, Morris or anyone on our roster can step in as our new starting RG and not have problems. Did we all forget with how Smith seemed to take a step backwards when Taylor became our RT? With Taylors DEEEEEEP drops it puts more pressure on the RG than usual. Go sign Jackson or Stanley to fix LT and then get a cheap stud guard at #31! Morris and Kingsley can still be developed. Best case would be Kingsley DOES develop and can take over for either Taylor OR Thuney the following year. |
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Here is Ersery vs Carter. Would rather have him over Jackson as well.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Every one-on-one pass rep between Minnesota OT Aireontae Ersery (#69) and Penn State Edge Abdul Carter (#11) <a href="https://t.co/2Lz4gNxPpr">pic.twitter.com/2Lz4gNxPpr</a></p>— Nate Tice (@Nate_Tice) <a href="https://twitter.com/Nate_Tice/status/1889457936977850819?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 11, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> |
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Politely, but firmly, disagree. Unless Ersey falls to 63 or 66. And even then I’d rather them go another direction. Simmons and Conerly are the only guys I can consider at T as round 1 guys and feel like it is smart or works. |
Conerly is probably a guy that can start at either tackle position day 1. He's a high floor guy and I wouldn't mind it if he falls. I'm just not into trading multiple picks, even for a guy like him.
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He needs to get stronger. A lot stronger. Dealing with NFL grown man strength is the question for him in Year 1. Don’t think it would take much to get him, if anything, if the draft happened tomorrow. Obviously that can change. |
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He'll get manhandled. He would be okay against speed unless it's one of those speed to power guys. The Eagles would've absolutely murdered him in the Super Bowl by just doing exactly what they did to Thuney -- fast, speed to power directly into the chest, knock the guy backwards. Conerly's tape looks good because it's against college players but you can see him struggle against stronger players. |
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Ersery is one of those classic cases where we'll spend 3-4 weeks talking ourselves into a guy who just isn't a 1st round prospect by any definition, IMO. He is a LOT like Kingsley. Lots of talent, good length and athleticism, appears to have the necessary strength. But he's just really raw, IMO. He lacks technique almost as badly as Kingsley did and at this point, a year into his career, I'd be surprised if Kingsley isn't substantially better in 2025 than Ersery would be. Nope. Not interested. Like you, probably not even interested at the back of 2. Oh sure, he's 'worth' that, but there's gonna be someone I like better. |
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But they may value one a fair bit as a guy who can spell Jones. They ran Jones HARD last season. Finding someone that can take some snaps from him and then eventually replace him towards the end of his rookie deal, seems like it wouldn't be a bad idea at all. If you don't do it this year, you're gonna have to do it next year. And this is just a damn good year for it. So why not grab one now when the board is likely going to fall in your favor? |
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tackle to replace Simmons. I don’t think Jackson is a tackle at the next level. I think he is a guard. The only tackle that I really like is Simmons and I don’t think he’s obtainable. To be honest, our best move is likely free agency to fix tackle as much as people hate that route. This is just too good of a defensive class to take a project tackle again. I don’t see how defense is not the clear BPA in the first round, unless it’s a running back and even then I’m not confident that they would pass on a defender. |
Yeah, I'm REALLY not a fan of Donovan Jackson in the first.
I don't get that one at all. That just feels like a lesson we really should've learned by now. Don't. Draft. Versatility. Early. |
This DL class feels like 2016 and 2019. There could legitimately be 9 or 10 of these guys drafted in the first round. There were 8 in 2016 and 11 in 2019.
I don’t think FAU is even a top 50 pick in this class. He’d be pushed down the board by all these monsters. I don’t think Karlaftis would be a first rd pick in this class. The value is just too damn good. And quite honestly we’ll need one of those guys early. Chris is about to enter cautious territory where one year he’s 2022 Kelce and the next he’s 2023 Kelce who has clearly lost a step. Now is the time to prepare for that IMO. |
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It also wouldn't be my first choice by any means. |
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But the usual caveat applies -- I'm ****ing AWFUL at evaluating OL. |
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"> UPDATE <br><br>GM Brett Veach says the left tackle spot and defensive line are priorities for the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> this offseason.<br><br>Per, <a href="https://twitter.com/TheFan965?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@TheFan965</a>.</p>— Chiefs Blitz (@ChiefsBlitz) <a href="https://twitter.com/ChiefsBlitz/status/1894455473958465820?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 25, 2025</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Life would be easier on the tackles if Mahomes didn’t drop so deep.
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Sign Jackson, re-sign Smith I guess, with the money staggered out to miss Taylor, call the line good. Draft d-line early, a RB and WR in the mid rounds and get on with it |
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