Those 2 guys you should keep. Young, still improving and unusual skillsets. Jones, in a 4-3, will be near Donald-like. Tyreek, with his speed, is a game changer.

Those two guys you build things around in your schemes.

All the older, often injured, declining guys are the contracts you need to get off of.

Let us hope ALL the GM's from other teams have your same viewpoint, it will make trading him for high value a likely possibility!:clap:

he's not a guy you want taking up 10% of your cap.

New England will pay their own home grown stars typically. Not always, but they do.

They’ve just never had studs like Hill or Jones in the last several years.

This. We finally have our franchise QB. Go for the dynasty instead of year to year haphazard salary cap management. I'd probably make an exception for Hill, though. He truly is a difference maker.

Not just super bowls. Would trade both hill and Jones for a Super Bowl victory.

What the **** are you even saying?

Ehh I think you’re crazy to let guys like Hill or Jones go just because you think that’s what BB would do. At some point you need playmakers to win, and at some point you have to reward your guys for playing well or people are going to question your culture and organizational philosophy.

The only reason Chandler Jones isn’t a Patriot right now is he did some stupid shit involving drugs. But the Patriots would be a lot more dangerous with him and they probably would have won last year’s Super Bowl if he were still there.

Let two superstars walk to still go spend the same money in FA? That is the dumbest s*** I've heard. Then you're paying guys who don't know your system yet and letting guys very familiar with the system that are exceeding expectations walk free.

Guys like Hill and Jones are HOW you win Super Bowls, Ree.

I thought this too.

Then I found out he had back surgery in 2011.

He's had back surgery TWICE. And missed entire seasons because of his back THREE TIMES.

You don't backup the Brinks trucks for that.

Well you know the old saying opinions are like ass's every one has one-some just stink worse than others. :D

So.. you want the chiefs to enter a rebuild.. to try and win a superbowl?

I guess they do. But what sucks is they all don’t get paid much. Brady takes a discount, Gronk makes around $11 million average, Edelman makes around $5 million average.

I do remember Bill offloading Chandler Jones, Jamie Collins and Brandon Cooks (not homegrown but he’s really good).

I’m just ready for their time to come like everyone else. We all want to knock these assholes out and go to the Super Bowl for a change. Hopefully it happens next year.

So there was twice during the season that the ref didn't tell DF that he was in the neutral zone when he was lining up and the ref threw the flag once. That's AR's fault?????? It lends more credence to AR saying something after the game about how the ref normally says something to the coach or player than it does that AR is incompetent.

Hill changes the game in ways that few players can, at any position. BB showed you that with his game plan. Jones is the same deal, he is a game wrecker unlike any DT not named Aaron Donald.

And they’re not older. Gotta keep them.

How mad are you going to be when they keep Ford? And $15 million a year is going to be cheap for any decent pass rusher going forward. The cap is about to go up again, and after the new TV and streaming contracts are settled it will jump higher. If somebody can lock Ford down for $15 million a year they will be getting a steal on a guy that can actually get to the QB. Shit on Ford all you want but remember he has been coached by worthless shit Sutton for his entire career. I'd like to see Ford coached by competent defensive coaches. I guarantee if Ford went somewhere like Seattle he would rape faces after 1 year of coaching there.

Ford is due for another season ending injury. Are you going to be okay with $15M spending half the season on IR?

This is either a troll job or one of the dumbest takes I have ever seen on here. And that's saying something.

I don't pay the bills and I can't get angry at a player for being injured. That's ****ing stupid. If a player goes all Fat Albert Haynesworth on a team then I think the team and the fans would have reason to be angry.

And why is he due another season ending injury? Because that happened last year but not any of the other 5? I am confused by that statement of yours.

Dee Ford tied JJ Watt for most forced fumbles; beat Mack, TJ Watt, and Houston. I don't have strong feelings about Ford one way or another, but it is clear he is a playmaker on a defense that was lacking them. Can he get better still? Yes, and I think he will, especially now that the Chiefs fired Sutton. I don't think you or others have accounted for how shitty Sutton was at coaching. Not just in games but overall. It is clear this team has no idea how to tackle, and it is clear the LBs had no idea what was going on most of the time. I would say it is a miracle Ford and Houston managed the season they each had.

Dee Ford has missed at least one game in every season except one since his sophomore year of college. He's had 3 knee injuries, 3 back injuries, and 2 back surgeries. Since his sophomore year of college, he's missed more than half a season 3 times and been on IR twice in 5 years in the NFL.

Why would you pay a guy like that? The best ability is AVAILABILITY.

And for the record, I was always in the "tag Ford" camp. That hasn't changed. But after thoroughly researching his injury history, I really think the Chiefs have to try and trade him or let him walk.

We're coming off the whole Haglund's thing. Paying Dee Ford $15M is a terrible risk to take when you're gunning for a Super Bowl. The guy has talent but he's got to be on the field and his entire history shows that's not likely to happen two years in a row.

A terrible risk would be signing him to a multi-year big dollar contract.

Tagging him at $15M is an easy decision.

Ford was great btw this year.

The issue with the tag is that it just burns up 15 mil. If he stays healthy and plays like he did this year it’s fine and worth it.

Odds just aren’t good

Not when you have Houston and Berry on the contracts they are on. The only way they can afford to tag Ford and keep him is if they do something with those two.

https://kckingdom.com/2019/02/01/kan...ustin-houston/

Kansas City Chiefs: It’s time to say good-bye to Justin Houston

This offseason will be a big one for the Kansas City Chiefs, but one of the biggest questions they’ll have to answer is what to do with Justin Houston moving forward.
Kansas City Chiefs general manager Brett Veach is entering one of the most important stretch of months of his young career. With the franchise being one off-sides penalty away from playing in the Super Bowl (Thanks, Dee Ford), the 40 year old GM needs to get more than a few things right this off season to keep the Chiefs in contention.

Veach inherited a very messy salary cap situation to put it lightly. Former GM John Dorsey was a master of talent evaluation, but where he always came up short was handling the salary cap. Dorsey married the Chiefs to some very ugly and expensive contracts and it ultimately cost him his job.

He was always a year too late when it came to extending players like Justin Houston and Eric Berry. Houston was reaching the final two years of his rookie contract in 2013-14, and rather than working out a deal before the start of either of those seasons, Dorsey opted to wait and watched him have a career year with 22 sacks.

That following spring, the Chiefs were forced to franchise tag Houston and eventually extend him to a six-year, $101 million dollar deal with an average salary number of $16.3 million per year. Pass rushers certainly aren’t cheap but the Chiefs could’ve saved a ton of money had they gotten the deal done prior to that 2014 season.

Since the major contract, Justin Houston has yet to play an entire season of football and he’s only amassed 30 total sacks between 2015 to now. This isn’t to say that Houston isn’t worth a crap anymore or that he can’t still dominate games, but his level of production isn’t living up to a cap number of $16 million per annually.

In a league where coverage is becoming more of a priority than pass rushing, Houston’s position and cap number aren’t a priority for a Chiefs defense that ranked near the bottom in every statistical category.

Sure, they finished tied for the most sacks in the league last season, but when they faced better quarterbacks like Tom Brady for instance, they were able to get rid of the ball in three seconds or less, negating the strength of the Chiefs defense.

If Houston is willing to either restructure the current deal, or, extending out the deal and spreading the remaining money over more years, then the Chiefs should bring him back.

Assuming the 30-year old line backer isn’t willing to restructure a deal, the Chiefs would save $14 million in immediate cap space with a dead cap number of $7.1 million in 2019. For Veach this is almost a no brainer decision with contracts for Chris Jones and Tyreek Hill looming over the horizon.

You’re probably asking “Why wouldn’t the Chiefs just trade him and get some value in return?”

Well that’s a great question and the Chiefs should at least try and shop Houston first before cutting ties. The only problem is finding a trade partner who is willing to absorb his absurd cap numbers of $21 and $19 million dollars over the next two seasons while also surrendering a draft pick or player to the Chiefs.

In more ways than one, the team making the deal with Kansas City would be doing them a huge favor. Again, this isn’t to say that Justin Houston isn’t a good player anymore and isn’t capable of making an impact for a team. For sure though, he isn’t worth that contract given his recent injury history and production on the field.

The Chiefs need to cleanse themselves of overpaid aging talent and I believe it starts with the release of Justin Houston. Moving on from that cap number will give the Chiefs more flexibility in free agency, re-signing players, and having room to get rookie deals done.

If there is one thing Veach can learn form Dorsey it’s that, it’s better to be a year early than late on certain players. Staying ahead of the curve on Jones and Hill could pay dividends for the Chiefs and their cap situation in the future especially with the franchise staring down the barrel of Patrick Mahomes new contract in 2020.

As mush as we all have loved Houston, it’s time for the Chiefs to say good-bye in 2019.

we'd have almost 50 million tied up between 3 guys who have proven themselves to not be healthy for full seasons. That terrifies me, which is why id rather use that 15 million elsewhere

Hell yes. Cut him and get real LBs and DBs.

You continue to say this, but I don’t remember you ever saying who to get. Do you have anyone in mind, or do you just want to keep screaming to cut him?

I would really like to hear your plan after you cut Ford, and how you spend the $15 million. Who are the real LBs and DBs you target?

It’s just so much damn money.

Pretty much have to move on if he won’t restructure

I'd bet he restructures,and you don't cut him.hes to good to cut, anyone putting that out is just a dumbass.now if he won't restructure that's a different deal

Interesting interview from Geoff Schwartz:

-wonders if the Chiefs will try to find another Tyreek Hill like player in the draft and think about not paying him.
-thinks you have to pay Chris Jones. He’s extremely important.
-thinks Dee Ford is worth paying bc of a pass rush.
-Geoff rarely talks about the Chiefs with his brother, but asked him about Pat. Mitch basically said he has never been as impressed with a young player, especially a QB. Unlike anything he’s ever seen.
-Chiefs offense struggled the first half bc they weren’t on the field enough to even make adjustments. Couldn’t even get through Andy’s first 15 scripted plays to see how it would work to make needed adjustments.
-stopping the run has to be the focus bc of previous point.
-thinks Tanoh and Speaks fit well in Spags system and is interested in how they will do.
-laughs at the Marino talk. Thinks Chiefs will absolutely be back and very soon.
-this was the year to beat the Pats. They were most vulnerable.

Hey Geoff....if it was that easy to find a "Tyreek Hill" in the draft....then everyone would ****ing have one.

No kidding.

Try to replace Hill? LMAO ****ing ignorant.

There’s no other Tyreek Hill.

Tyreek Hill is an enigma. You aren't finding another one of those guys for a while. If we don't pay him....then it will go down as the stupidest decision this team has made in a long, long time.

Lol pay Dee Ford but don’t pay Tyreek Hill

Geoff is all over the place in the media and I really don’t understand why

yeah what in the actual **** kind of opinion was that.

Sure. Let's pay Watkins 16m per but Hill is just too expensive. ****ing stupid.

Note that he said PAY Ford, not "tag" Ford.

Break the bank for Ford and let Hill walk. :facepalm:

I’d like to tell Geoff, hey, maybe we should go out and try to find another Mitchell Schwartz instead of giving him a raise or extension.

I mean it’d be hard as **** to find another one and Pat’s protection would suffer, but at least we’d save a few million!

Yeah that was kinda odd. I do agree with Geoff that Chris Jones has more value than Tyreek Hill and if we had to choose, I’d take Jones.

Tyreek is special, but there are always going to be good WR’s available. There are rarely guys like Chris Jones that come around very often. There aren’t many humans that are that big, that fast and that strong with talent like him.

There are more guys that are physically like Chris Jones in the NFL than there are guys that are physically like Tyreek Hill. Just saying...

This.

You ****ing lock up Hill first 100 times out of 100.

It’s an interesting point in that theoretically you’ve got Mahomes so you’re gonna have to depend on him to make some chicken salad sometimes with the WRs

But hill is pretty important to the offense so they’ll pay him

There’s a big difference between good WRs and special WRs

The Chiefs didn't even find Tyreek Hill in the draft. The player he is today is massively different from the guy they drafted. He has grown so much as a WR. They can't spend 3 years developing another speed guy just to get back to where they are now, right when we have to pay Mahomes. Ride this wave.

Without Hill, Mahomes does go for 50 and 5K.... I’m sure of that

Mahomes is rare in the fact that he doesn’t need a ton of talent to look elite.

For the most part of the second half of the season he didn’t have Hunt or Watkins. He still threw for 24 touchdowns.

Hell, he had no problem putting up points against Chris Harris, Talib, Von Miller etc... when he played with backup linemen, receivers, tight ends and running backs.

How the **** is Dorsey supposed to pay Houston when he has a gun at his head telling him to pay Commander McGimp Leg first? And don't even get me started on Berry.

One of these days I want to have a sit down with John Dorsey. No interview, no filming or taping, I just want to get get HIS take on what went down in KC because I'm getting REALLY ****ing tired of these false narratives regarding cap mismanagement. If the Head Coach and Owner are flat out TELLING you who gets signed, WHEN they get signed, and what you're going to give them, then how the **** is that HIS fault? It's bullshit.

And now THIS media clown wants to trade the OLB on the backside of his career, whose value is far less than the younger pass rusher that we could actually get REAL value for, assuming we can find a team willing to overlook his inability to play 16 games more than one season in a row, and keep the guy with ZERO mental acuity and leadership experience.
Great idea!

The people who want to keep Dee Ford will probably get their reeruned wish. But I've taken notes and when this turd ends up on the bench( most likely )or performs another brain fart in a crucial situation, I'm coming for scalps with no mercy shown.

The Athletic's Nate Taylor believes there's a good chance the Chiefs release OLB Justin Houston this offseason.

Houston just turned 30 last month and has two years left on his contract. He's due to count a team-high $21.1 million against the cap in 2019. It's doable for the Chiefs with Patrick Mahomes on a rookie contract, but Houston's play has slipped in recent years from superstar status to above-average pass rusher. Injuries have played a part. Fellow OLB Dee Ford is also set for free agency this year, but the Chiefs have reportedly considered the franchise tag for him.

I just wanna know exactly how much ****ing cap space they’ve got.

Taylor speculates that it’s around $32M, which makes keeping Ford and Houston more plausible if they want to go that route with having a bunch of high quality pass rushers.

Know what’s crazy?

Tyreek didn’t catch a pass in the 2nd half
Kelce only had 23 yards and didn’t score
We only had 30 total rushing yards from our running game

We still scored 31 points.

According to Spotrac.com we're sitting at $25.5 million in cap space.

It's going to be great when they spend their entire cap keeping Ford and Houston and neither one of them are healthy for the entire season next year.

If that’s the case, HAVE to get rid of one of them.

just five days ago that same site said we had 36 million, nobody really knows except for hopefully the Chiefs.

25.5M is close to what Joel Corry suggested a week or so ago, and he’s a cap specialist guy. So it’s probably pretty accurate tbh.

You can't do it. Changes are coming. As much as we'd like to take the easy way out and "because Chiefs", it's not going to work like that anymore.

Definitely not as fast as we'd like, but I'm telling you; the scrutiny level on these players is headed WAY up. The "buddy-buddy" shit is slowly but surely going to end up in the trash can. There's only ONE player on this team who stays at all costs and who is "the face". Everyone else is expendable.

It has to do with bonuses and escalators built into the current contracts.

Starting with $25.5 million.

Cut: Houston, Sorensen, Ragland and Murray.

That gives you $44.5 million to work with.

Didn't both miss games in 2018?

Oh I forgot you wouldn't know. You don't watch games and aren't a fan.
You just parrot others.

Ford hasn't played a full season in almost TEN YEARS.

Technically, he was available for all 16 games his rookie year but he played so few snaps, he really didn't have a chance to get hurt.

Because he still had Kelce and Tyreek.

And if you replace Houston with Ford that’s about $46.5M, either way, plenty to work with while losing one real contributor.

The Patriots game? Kelce had a touchdown.

Welp I guess they weren’t ****ing around when they drafted Speaks. Looks like they are rolling with him.

I assume you're talking about the franchise tag?

Maybe you are the one printing the false narrative.

Do you have a link to the coach or owner flat out telling Dorsey anything about contracts?

Who got paid first again? Houston or berry?

I meant if Ford is let go instead of Houston

Well then you wouldn't gain any cap space because he's not under contract.

Who got paid first again? Smith or Houston?

sign landon collins and make his cap hit next year be really high so that it can be super low the following years

Ah shit, misunderstood. So it’d be more like $30.5M

Still, plenty to add pieces to the roster

If that happens, it’ll probably be the opposite in terms of structure

We should have a ton of cap room in 2020.

No reason we can't sign a couple of impact FA and offset their cost to next year if cap is tight this offseason.

OOOOH. commander mcgimp leg is alex smith? that makes sense. :rolleyes:


you're a ****ing dumb ass

Way to pay attention, sport.

ANOTHER "great" SAUTO contribution to football talk, ladies and gentlemen! :rolleyes:

Clark knows we’re about to lose at least one good player...

CLARK HUNT: “We’re never going to be able to hang on to all of our great players. The great thing about Brett Veach is that he’s very confident about acquiring players in the draft and in free agency to replace them. He always has a plan. If we were playing chess, he’d kill me.”

And who have an incredible work ethic, elite ball tracking skills, and catch everything thrown at them.