This is a really strange argument for Franklin.

I don't care about just reading college production as a predictor for NFL success.

The analytics bros LOVE that shit. And when it doesn't work they can change their formula to "draft capital"! How convenient to never be wrong on a player.

ROFL

Parris Campbell was the slot focal at Ohio State with Terry McLaurin on the same team.

Parris did get drafted higher. It was a BIG mistake.

In his final year at Ohio State Parris had 90 catches for 1063 yards and 12 TD's.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb...ampbell-1.html

Terry McLaurin was the better WR and better pro prospect but he had only 35 catches for 701 yards and 11 TD's.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb...claurin-1.html

Just because Frankin was made a focal in college doesn't mean he will be one in the NFL.


If we are talking Adonai Mitchell and Troy Franklin, one has the skillset to be an NFL target hog and impact player, one does not. Franklin's traits do not line up with being an impact player at the next level.

Look at the traits. Look at how they work in combination and then how that will work at the next level.

Franklin has one + NFL trait, straight line speed. He does not have + Hands, Route Running, or ability to catch the ball in tight spaces. His acceleration is not special either.

Adonai has +Size/Power, + Hands, and +Route Running. In combination it will give him the opportunity to be a #1 NFL WR and eat 10+ targets a game.

Teams now pay 25+ million for that.

What Franklin does I can grab a vertical speed decoy for 5 million a year in FA.

If he was an elite vertical 2 then you pay more like 12-15 million. But I don't see that upside either.

And Mahomes has said that he wants a jump ball receiver.

If we grab him in the 3rd, I would be very happy. If he runs 4.4 flat or faster, he will probably be a 2nd round pick.

I can see the footnote now about the receiver with the great WR father from this draft that people will remember us actually Rice, who played with Mahomes, and not Harrison Jr. who played with a really bad QB.

Paired with Mahomes, either will be better than Flowers.

Flowers has Lamar at QB, and no matter how much he improves, he will never be Mahomes.

I haven’t run through everything because I’m late to the party but I’d peg him mid second just guessing now

I'm going to be blatantly honest with you with what I see with Mitchell and it's not what you see.

Let's start with him physically. He has a bad build for his size and doesn't show great play strength. I know that you keep preaching strength, I don't see it. Not at all. I think NFL press corners, something he didn't really face in college, are going to give him a lot of problems (more in a bit). He doesn't show a strong ability to go up and get the football. I question his vertical.

He's also slow. His releases are painfully slow. He won't be facing #2 PAC-12 CBs when he gets to the bigs. He's going to have to play against really good players who will even more easily stay in phase with him. He's also going to be an EASY jam at the line. He leaves the line on a vertical plane. With a relatively slender build for his height, a slow release, and no real threat of beating NFL corners deep, press will be a major issue. Obviously not all teams play press, but the ones that do will give him issues.

His route running is not as advanced as some scouting reports seem to indicate. It's relatively undeveloped in my opinion. His only real go-to move is a subtle head juke and stutter-go that can't be his only staple in the pros. He's not crisp, he rounds his routes. He telegraphs routes quite a bit and he doesn't have much quickness out of breaks, though he is smooth in transition. I think there's a big difference between making quick, sharp breaks and being smooth... they are mutually exclusive. Imagining that he's going to get any kind of open release in the NFL is hard to think positively about. I think he's going to have to work extremely diligently on his route running in the NFL and become much more sophisticated, to the point of being a technician.

He never really had to face double coverage. He was always 1-on-1 with the opposition's 2nd best CB, at best. Teams always had to roll coverage to stay on top of the better college WR, Worthy. They also had to account for Ja'Tavion Sanders, who is probably also a top-40 player in this draft.

Mitchell does have good hands, and that's a major positive. You can coach the routes, that's a positive. But I just don't think he has enough of anything to be particularly great in the pros. I'm not saying he's going to be a bust or a really bad player but I don't know that I'd draft him and hope he's an "alpha." I saw a lot more on Tee Higgins' tape coming out that I don't see with Mitchell, especially his play strength and ability in tight coverage. That's what scares me. I see Higgins as Mitchell's ceiling but I think his floor is lower to put it in draft terms.

I know Steve Smith doesn't like him at all. That's not the end-all-be-all, obviously, but I think it more or less echoes my hesitation. I don't think he's an "alpha" WR. I think it'll be an uphill battle to be a quality #2 but there is at least enough there to hope he can become that. And that is where we defer largely on opinions. A team that can be patient and values height and not as much speed, like maybe Dallas, should look really hard at this kid. KC, not so much.

He was used as a screen machine and not asked to do much downfield. He also played against lesser competition. His 40 time is better than expected and, like I mentioned earlier, he ran some great routes at the senior bowl. He might be too much like Rice for us to draft, but he’s definitely trending upwards.

You could just get a prescription for viagra

Here is some comic relief. Man, watching all these receivers makes me hope Toney isn't on the team much longer.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3IxN...JsM3Y2cGtwZg==

I dont get it.

The fact Kollman talks about Adonai Mitchell the way he talked about Edwards-helaire kind of turns me all the way off on him.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...fce41ceac1.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

So if you want a WR that can get off press and run top end routes why the hell are you on little, weak Worthy?

Worthy at 40 lbs less has less craft in his routes than the much bigger Adonai and Sanders the TE prospect.


:hmmm:

Being 40 lbs heavier or lighter doesn’t always equate to being stronger or weaker.

Worthy might just be Andy’s new DeSean Jackson. And DeSean was not a big or thick bodied dude. He was 5’9” 169 lbs.

Certainly possible Andy wants that element back in the offense. To me it depends on what they do in FA. Mooney might be the option for that role

Yeah, sure.

The next DeSean Jackson, a LEGENDARY deep threat is exactly the same as little Worthy.

ROFL

Zay Flowers is not a first round pick and little Xavier is DeSean Jackson.

The I love Punting guy weighs in on offense...


ROFL

If you're gonna draft a guy to do that, keep the Mooney $ and go sign another TE or DE

Little Worthy is the same size as Legendary Deep threat

We're dealing with a literal reerun here.

Like, Like Literally?


https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...J0xNsf0cF1uA&s


;)

And that's where the comp ends.


Why would other NFL teams allow the Chiefs to draft the next DeSean Jackson, a player that would immediately be a top ten WR talent if he stepped on the field?!


LMAO

You're right. Worthy doesn't have elite speed and start/stop ability like DJax.

You still did not answer the question.

If Worthy is a top ten WR the moment he steps on an NFL field why is he not going top ten?

Dude is killing Worthy when Zay Flowers was a literal midget who had to go on the meat diet just to get to 180 lbs by the combine. Pretty clear he’s playing in the 170’s.

Would Zay Flowers be a first rd pick this year? Keep in mind nobody touched any of the WR’s in the top 20 last year.

Maybe end of the 1st rd

If you watch Flowers and Worthy both play and you prefer Worthy I have no idea what you are looking at.


;)

A hypocritical reerun who talks in circles and gets called on it.

My favorite part is the Tapout he uses whenever you catch him in a lie/circle LMAO

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We just have different standards for offense.

I have high standards and you do not.

You are fine with mediocre offense and struggle sessions with Mahomes at QB in his prime.

I would prefer to utilize the Chiefs best player as weapon instead of your fantasy of making him a Alex Smith game manager.

Why didn't DJax? What a stupid question.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Xavier Worthy says he has met with the Chiefs. <br><br>Could be the Chiefs round 1 pick to improve their struggling WR room <a href="https://t.co/GhZCzxiBDP">pic.twitter.com/GhZCzxiBDP</a></p>&mdash; Jace Andrews (@JaceAndrews_) <a href="https://twitter.com/JaceAndrews_/status/1763576973001916896?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 1, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

:)

CP: “oh boy a speedy electric WR for us to upgrade the offense and score more points like the Mahomes years before 2023. How exciting!”


Reerun poster who hates Worthy: “you don’t want to score points. You want to punt and make Patrick a game manager.”

<div style="width:498px;max-width:100%;"><div style="height:0;padding-bottom:100.4%;position:relative;"><iframe width="498" height="500" style="position:absolute;top:0;left:0;width:100%;height:100%;" frameBorder="0" src="https://imgflip.com/embed/8hmd2a"></iframe></div><p><a href="https://imgflip.com/gif/8hmd2a">via Imgflip</a></p></div>

Different league back then.


I didn't follow the draft the way I do know back then. I do remember watching a few games with DeSean at Cal and he was a WOW talent then in college, even to my totally untrained eyes.

The NFL now has far more eyes on these players and a player that is an incredibly dynamic deep threat isn't lasting till end of 1st round.

Jaylen Waddle was a Wow vertical and he went top ten.

When did Tank Dell get drafted just last year?

Little Dell broke.

Not a "tank".

But if you are pushing Worthy as a 3rd round pick, that's fair.

A freak injury that could've literally happened to anybody means he "broke"?

:o)

Dell would easily be a 1st in a redraft, even after the injury.

How many catches and TD's did he have in the playoffs?

Speaking of "non sequiturs".

Wanna be real, Worthy is a WR type that the Chiefs have drafted repeatedly, Mitchell is a type that they haven't drafted since Reid has been here so we'll see if the trend continues.

Drafting a tiny slot WR with one + NFL trait would feel like the Skyy Moore selection again.

Skyy Moore doesn't have any elite traits none.

He had a + release.

So not a great impact trait but that was the +.

Skyy Moore is actually a lot like Zay Flowers, just not as skilled. Not a tall guy and doesn’t have blazing speed. Not gonna haul in catches or burn DB’s down the field. Works the intermediate and in bunches.

Worthy is a tall dude that is gonna burn guys downfield. And MVS’s role is valuable when the WR actually catch the ball. Plus you can do a lot more with him than you ever could with MVS.

Don’t get the Worthy hate tbh

Zay Flowers quickness and acceleration creates separation though, Moore doesn't move like that.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/rWgLO...giphy.gif&ct=g

Everyone all year bitched when Nagy/Andy called horizontal passes, especially against the Raiders, but ask yourself why they did that?

Hardman was out, Toney was benched and Mahomes wouldn’t even look at MVS (Patrick later admitted he needed to throw to him). So there was no deep threat and the Raiders knew this.

Need to bring this back. This is what was missing this year and can be schemed through cover 2.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/999G3GHAa4Y?si=yIE5k68dRL3iB1MI" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

No idea why you wouldn’t want this kid. He’s a representation of what was missing.

I'm doubtful Worthy makes it past the Cowboys.

Whoa another WR for them? That would be kinda weird.

It's not about wanting him. It's about WHERE do you want him.

Franklin has shown more. Legette looks raw AF as a WR, but damn there's some serious tools there. He's one of the most intriguing guys in the draft at WR imo.

Jovan Baker too.

There's a lot of guys this year that will be 2nd-3rd round picks that with some real interesting tools.

I look at a guy like Worthy, and sure, i like him. Not sure though what makes him a 1st round draft pick.

Im doubtful Worthy is a 1st round pick, lol.

Sorry. I was high. The comment said peg, which implies strap-on, which implies.....yeah, sorry

Worthy has Chiefs style of WR written all over him is what to notice.

Then why would you not just take Franklin assuming he's there.

Man, I saw a complete career highlight video of Worthy a couple of nights ago, and that kid is tough as hell. He took some huge shots and was never even slow to get up.

And I think he has 2 elite traits. His speed is elite, and his ball tracking is absolutely elite. And he makes some ridiculous catches.

He isn't my first choice, but it he has the Chiefs pick, I would be very, very happy.

I'm a big fan of Franklin, but the Chiefs haven't leaned heavy into guys who are 6'3.

I'm just saying the history of the way the Chiefs have drafted since Reid has been here at the WR position, Worthy checks a lot of the boxes.

WR is a draft need of theirs. Seems like a pick Jerry would make.

Im hard pressed to believe that will have any impact at all. That's not a thing.

We drafted Mecole Hardman over DK Metcalf...

Sky Moore was on some mock drafts to the Chiefs in the 1st round his draft year.

I agree he shouldn't be drafted in the 1st. The negatives about him should make a person hesitate. What is said about him is his slight frame presents injury risk, struggles in press coverage and easily knocked off his route, doesn't consistently win on the outside which may translate into more of a role player at the next level.

Don't forget his route running and change of direction are also not what you would want from a tiny player.

So.

Maybe Nagy sees Worthy as a gadget slot.

The Franklin vs Worthy debate reminds me of the Flowers vs Hyatt debates of last year.

Not seeing a lot of debate about those two. Most that like one, like both. The consensus is definitely Franklin though.

Man. Drafting Worthy in the first over Franklin is an egregious mistake. The production is not there for Worthy. He’s one dimensional.

Yeah, there shouldn't be a debate at all.



Franklin bores me but at least be could be a MVS replacement.

Would I spend a 1st on that?

No, but at least that is worth 5-8 million a year in FA.

Not great value but still better value than a Skyy Moore who could be replaced with a practice squad player.

Brenden Rice, WR, USC
Height: 6-3. Weight: 210.
Projected 40 Time: 4.55.
Projected Round (2024): 3-5.

2/24/24: With Jordan Addison in the NFL, Rice helped pick up the slack in 2023 and turned in a strong senior year for the Trojans. He totaled 45 receptions for 791 yards and 12 touchdowns in 2023. Rice was a reliable receiver for Caleb Williams, using his size and polished route-running to make catches for his quarterback. Rice has good size and uses it well to make contested catches. If he runs well during the leadup to the 2024 NFL Draft, that could help him to rise. Rice is the son of NFL great and Hall of Famer Jerry Rice.



Luke McCaffrey, WR, Rice
Height: 6-1. Weight: 202.
Projected 40 Time: 4.53.
Projected Round (2024): 4-6.

2/24/24: McCaffrey caught 71 passes for 992 yards and 13 touchdowns in 2023. During 2022, he caught 58 receptions for 723 yards and six touchdowns. McCaffrey is the younger brother of 49ers running back Christian McCaffrey. McCaffrey performed well at the Senior Bowl to help himself.


Are either of these guys any good?

lol wut?

Worthy was very productive as a Freshman and throughout his career.

Not to mention Ewers is trash and left A LOT of meat on the bone. Worthy's tape is full of missed opportunity due to QB play.

Ya I mean, drafting Worthy when you have failed with Moore, Toney, and Hardman to an extent just…doesn’t make any sense. I’d be happier if we drafted Mitchell or Coleman.

One thing that stands out when you watch Caleb Williams' highlights is that when he's in scramble drill mode, Brendan Rice is very frequently the guy working to open space for Caleb Williams.

Rice has the size and speed to be the vertical threat (we think, if he runs in the 4.3s as expected/suggested) and that ability to be effective when the play extends is kind of an instinct thing I think you either have or don't.

I like this quality a lot in Adonai Mitchell as well.

Not going to address the subjective jargon. Main subject here is we are talking about the first round, and potentially a spot that would be traded up with Sneed.

One receiver has 1k yards and 5 TDs. The other has 1400 and 14 TDs.

One receiver averaged 47 yards against common opponents, the other averaged 97, which included a game he played with injury. Outside the injury those same opponents he averaged 150 yards.

The production is significantly different.

Add on top of that Worthy is one dimensional, and shares a one dimensional trait we have in spades already on the roster. The move is a massive mistake given we are in Mahomes prime. Forget the fact we don’t even have an offensive coordinator who would even use Worthy correctly.

I prefer Franklin over Worthy too, but to say "the production isn't there" with Worthy is just nonsensical.

This logic would've had you missing on Flowers and Dell last year.

Well when we are talking about a first round pick, potentially as high as 19. I think it is sensical to call into question 5TDs playing in a league that traditionally had bad defenses.

Neither Franklin or Worthy are as good as Zay Flowers last year.

I also would rather have Rashee Rice or Jayden Reed than Franklin or Worthy.

They went in the 2nd last year in what was supposed to be a weaker WR draft.

Wow, very bold of you Captain Hindsight.

Rice would easily be a 1st in a redraft, and Reed would be a high 2nd. So you mean to tell me you'll take the proven commodity over the mystery box at 32? Shocker!

Exactly what ****ing point do you think you're making here reerun?

Totally fine with that. I’m a character guy, and Flowers is a ****up in my mind. Dell I don’t have an opinion on other than I’m certain Franklin will have a better career.

Oh, and another controversial take. I don’t like our OC.

Umm Worthy had 26 TDs in 3 years.

Yeah, basic reading comprehension is a major struggle for you.

When you read the words do you move your lips?!

I would prefer WR's taken in the 2nd round last year over guys you are promoting the Chiefs take with a 1st round pick this year.

Very simple.


LMAO

I’m fine with taking worthy in the second. Not fine with taking him in the first.

I’d still rather take Mitchell, Coleman, even Legette if they are available in the second.