Teams break contracts all the time. They should honor them if the player have to.

But that's different or something. Only one side is obligated to honor their end of the contract.

He's just missing training camp/preseason stuff, who cares... it's only bullshit if he comes back week 1 and he Frank Clarks it for weeks.

NFL contracts aren't guaranteed overall, so it doesn't really bother me... players get cut all the time and are out the non-guaranteed money and he's apparently facing fines upwards of a million dollars and would lose game checks later. Seems fine. :shrug:

Like I said, I understand. It's not like Jones is the first person to use their talent for a better contract or for an extension.

What are guys even talking about????

It’s IN THE CONTRACT he signs that a team can cut him at any time and only pay the guaranteed money…….it’s written IN THE CONTRACT.

How are teams not honoring the contracts? Haha

100% wrong

This may be the hold up. Chiefs want to be covered in case a 34 year old DT falls off in their production. He wants guarantees etc.

But, none of us knows for sure what's the hold up.

Is it? And how so? Players under contract are cut all the time. No one has issues when a team does it, but when players want protections they are looked on poorly. This is why so many players push for the guaranteed money. Teams can still cut them, they are still on the hook for the guaranteed money, not the length of the contract.

Yeah….and I don’t believe there’s anything in there saying he can’t do what he’s doing? No?

Think you answered your own question.

I think he was taking your post literally, of all the ones to quote, heh.

I feel like it was Reek who was the one that said he’d never play for Bienemy again. He wasn’t coming back with EB still here.

Fines and if a player doesn’t show for a certain amount of the season the team still keeps that year.

That seems to make the most sense. From KC's perspective a backloaded contract with outs makes sense, but from Jones' perspective upfront and guaranteed money are probably the most important.

Yeah, I know what you’re saying, but it’s not actually correct. The contract spells out who has what rights and options. There’s nothing in the contract stipulating that Jones can walk away after 3 years instead of 4 and sign with another team. Whereas because of guaranteed money and what-not there are always outs for teams which means they don’t necessarily have to pay the full value of the contract. But all of that is understood on day one and is part of the overall negotiation.

If you want pick a bone with something, complain about the franchise tag. But even with that, the players agreed to it in exchange for other benefits elsewhere.

Jones signed a deal with eyes wide open. I’m only upset if he misses games, but I expect he’ll report once they leave St Joe’s in any case.

I guess. Either way the whole concept that only players have to honor their contracts, but not the teams makes no sense to me.

^this^ I thought he would report before last Sunday's game, but I knew the daily fines can't be waived, but didn't realize preseason game checks being withheld for a holdout is optional. He will be back when shortly after the Chiefs leave St. Joes...

False narrative. Teams do honor contracts. The contract and negotiated league rules stipulate all that goes on in a contract and it enforcement. Who can be cut, when they can become a free agent, who can be fined for holding out, and franchise tag rules. Jones signed his current deal know exactly what the situation would be this year, as do all players.

This I agree with. I am also ok with Jones being fined for not being there in that respect. I understand the outs built into a contract, it's more the opinions in the court of public opinion that teams cuts a player=Ok. Player holds out for whatever reason=player bad, honor contract.

Must be nice to be able to sign a contract and then out right not honor it fully because I don't feel like it.

I think the nature of professional sports dictates that it's OK for a team to cut a player because you have to perform to be in the professional sport, and if you don't perform, you don't belong.

Fans understand this, especially because they want their teams to win, and they understand that you can't have poor performers on your team and win, or at least not win as much as they could.

I get it. But teams are never withholding guaranteed money. In fact that guaranteed money was put into escrow on day 1 when the contract was signed in the first place.

Football is such a tough sport to play precisely because of the wear and tear and way contracts are structured. I don’t begrudge anyone for seeking out as much money as they can get as these guys earn it.

If you were as good at your job as he is, you could do it

It's generally the player's only leverage. It hurts the team, but it also hurts the player's pocketbook. I don't have an opinion on it, other than to say, it's just business. :shrug:

“He signed the contract he should show up and play”

“He should just sign for what the chiefs are offering and not try to maximize his money and contract”

That seems contradictory

Are you familiar with at-will employment? We all have the right to quit our current jobs. It just means we won’t be paid and there might be other limitations (non-competes, etc).

Must be nice to ignore an entire conversation so everyone can explain it just for you a 2nd time.

Teams don't honor contracts all the time...if a team can cut a guy 2 years into a 10 year deal to not pay him I don't fault a player for doing what they need to do to gain leverage.

Fans almost always side with teams because they are a fan of said team, if you were that player, you would do exactly the same thing.

Well CJ doesn't have a ton of options here. He is under contract to make around $20MM minus the fines he keeps accumulating.

Sure he doesn't have to honor the contract I guess, he not get paid and not accrue service time while doing it.

If they are legit far apart it's more for next year, if the rest of the league knows he's disgruntled it makes a franchise tag harder.

Obviously this is a seriously hyperbolic example, but stop acting like there aren't repercussions to cutting players in the middle of contracts.

Its not a one way street, signing bonuses are still paid, cap hits, dead $ etc....its not like teams just do whatever they want without it making an impact.

Last I checked Jones was on track to make $80MM of an $80MM contract sorrect?

Sure but it's a 2 way street, teams cut guys cause they don't wanna pay them all the time.

Yes they do, 100% of the time!

It's in the contract that they can be cut at anytime and the player is only guaranteed the guaranteed money.

Because it says exactly this IN THE CONTRACT.

Most of the time it’s either expected at the time of signing or the player isn’t living up to the contract he signed. I have no issues with either.

Rarely the player is cut that is living up to the contract strictly do to financial reasons. It happens and yes, it is kind of BS.

LMAO

Question I don’t think we have discussed:

How do the fines affect his cap number?

He missed 1/18th of his salary by missing preseason game 1… does his cap number now go down?

He’s racked up more than $1M in camp fines. Do those subtract from his base?

Bullshit.

Teams honor the contract exactly as it's written. Being able to cut a player is right there in black and white for both parties to agree to. Situational settlements and penalties for either side not living up to their end of the deal is all in black and white.

If you want to blame players, teams, and the media for yapping their traps about the big inflated figures that only actually happen if the world spins perfectly for the whole deal, go ahead. Believing the hype doesn't mean the contract isn't being adhered to by both sides.

I hear the Chiefs and Chris Jones are still 14" away from a new contract.

Correct. The option to cut players is why the big signing bonuses exist in the first place.

That would be a fun under the table loophole if there was a need... oh hey, we'll need you to hold out for a bit to clear some cap space, but we'll make it up to you in your next contract instead of restructuring under this cap.

From league circles?

Yeah, everyone knows the rules and the economy adjusts accordingly. Max fines are agreed upon, guaranteed money is agreed upon, players obviously know what's not guaranteed... if teams really hated players holding out, they would lobby for heftier fines or guaranteed money would adjust, or whatever.

Nobody is screwing over anyone else with some crazy leverage or anything, and nobody is breaking any rules.

So your saying he can sign the paperwork without using his hands?

It's been asked a few times in this thread but no answers.

I'm hoping that it does in fact reduce the total cap hit that is used to calculate next years franchise tag. Thus Veach could reduce that tag number by a few million if a contract is not reached.

Veach a mastermind?
Knows he won't ever pay Jones $30M and plans to tag and trade him next offseason but only tells Jones/agent that they are working on it and a deal could still get done thus Jones keeps sitting out! At some point the agent and Jones will call Veach's bluff and Jones will report but by then his tag number will be in the $20M's not the $30M's anymore!

MUAHAHAHAHA

Be the 2nd best person in the entire world that can do your job and you'll be able to do that.

Laveon Bell would disagree with you.

I mean I suppose you still can do it, but its not without consequence.

There's maybe a handful of DT's who can rush the passer at a high level like Chris.

There's tons of RB's across the league. We just had a 7th rd RB break out and think an undrafted RB this year could be really good.

Chris won't face that many consequences, but he's also gonna be on the field unlike Bell.

You think Chris Jones is going to skip out on this whole season? And you think a great pass rushing DT is anywhere similar to Leveon Bell?

No I don't think he will sit out but are you attempting to say Bell wasn't the top 1 or 2 RB when his contract deal went down?

Florio says the Chiefs have Jones in checkmate. Probably.

Chris Simms says CJ is vastly underpaid. Holy ****ing shit, what a terrible take.

https://www.nbcsports.com/watch/nfl/...ate-with-jones

I saw something on this a couple of days ago. I think the only thing that helps the cap is the 500,000 workout bonus he missed. Everything else stays against the cap.

Don't hold me to this. I don't know where I read it to link it right now, and don't have time to search for it either.

On the 2024 cap, correct.

“The fines have no effect on the salary cap — although the Chiefs will get a credit of $500,000 against the 2024 cap for Jones’ unearned workout bonus”.

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/platf...-him-3-million

Florio is such a two faced pile of crap. Never a word of Brady taking less as being a guy getting used but for us it's some crime and we are assholes. Brady got praised as being a winner and team player but Mahomes and Kelce are saps and Veach is a jerk for taking advantage of them.

STFU Florio

Reminder that Chris Jones’ dad doesn’t seem to make the best decisions.

https://amp.kansascity.com/sports/nf...239043513.html

Apples and trees.

Don’t know if it’s been talked about but Jones agent is a lesser known guy who doesn’t really represent any big names.

So this being an obj situation isn’t out of the question

I think that’s exactly what’s happening.

Dawg.. based on this article, Chris is nothing like his father. What a weird thing to say. Pretty douchey, honestly.

If you don’t think parents influence their children’s behavior (e.g., modeling behavior to adopt or avoid), then I don’t know what to tell you.

Jones has largely done the latter in his life, but his holdout seems more like the former.

What is it about this holdout that makes Jones appear to have a pattern of addictive and self destructive behaviors, is selfish, narcissistic, and is the type of person who deals with failures by bragging about them instead of being a better person?

I think you are right about that. I thought during the early portion of the game that the Chiefs just looked flat. I said they look flat and NO looks like they are trying to win the game. Mahomes confirmed that with trying to get his team to show some energy. It's preseason, I'm not the least bit concerned. Now, if this kind of play were to continue into the regular season. :hmmm::eek:

I mean, I thought that was pretty obvious. Teams don't have to honor it because in situations like Frank Clark, the player is not the same one for which they initially paid all that money.

I’ve been on record as saying his holdout is selfish and ill advised.

And if you think children are guaranteed to be carbon copies of their parents, right down to negative traits, I don’t know what to tell you.

My mother is a full-blown narcissist who has never thought about anyone but herself for a moment of her life. Even my dad’s death earlier this year is all about her. She has told me multiple times that her grief is more than my grief and she doesn’t seem to understand why I haven’t reorganized my life to make it about her instead of my wife and young children.

I’m nothing like her. Most kids who escape a parent with toxic traits strive to be their exact opposite. I sure as **** do.

Dude, next time just post the article. Or at least post the relevant portion of it. I'm not clicking on that trash KC Star.

We should trade him straight up for Michael Carter.

I think you are both correct. I have seen situations like yours many times. And that is a good thing.

But I've also seen children go down the same exact path as their toxic parent(s). And often times, it's as if they don't even realize that they've turned into their POS parent.

Wait, we have the same mom? Weird.

Mine couches her narcissism in a thin veneer of selflessness.

I’m agreeing with you, for the record.

<div class="tenor-gif-embed" data-postid="14227150" data-share-method="host" data-aspect-ratio="1.76271" data-width="20%"><a href="https://tenor.com/view/chandler-friends-ha-sarcastic-not-funny-gif-14227150">Chandler Friends GIF</a>from <a href="https://tenor.com/search/chandler-gifs">Chandler GIFs</a></div> <script type="text/javascript" async src="https://tenor.com/embed.js"></script>

Oh you are record? Apologies I had no idea. I guess what’s unfortunate though is being on record with that is worthless because we have no idea what’s going on here with his contract to determine it’s selfish or ill advised. And what little we can hypothesize is way short of comparing his personality to a self destructive narcissist.

You swung and missed. Better luck next time.

You and I clearly view his holdout differently.

I met his Mom, Dad and the agent in his second year on a road trip to ATL to watch the Chiefs play. Stayed at the same hotel.

Mom was the salt of the earth. Talked to us for about 30 minutes while they waited for their ride to the stadium. Told us about being poor. The Dad was a mess. He had on a great suit but he talked like a gangster, bragged about everything. What Mom saw in the guy, I'll never know.

Wait what? We know exactly what’s going on with his contract, he’s refusing to honor it. Period.

Bold prediction
 

Jones will be at Arrowhead tomorrow*

* Or someday after that

Possibly since today was the last day in St Joe

You are just creating nonsense out of nowhere. So yeah definitely different. The only thing we know is he wants a new deal. We don’t know how much, years, what’s been offered, etc. so making the comparison you made is ridiculous. The only thing you can even approach is to suggest he might be being selfish, but even that is basically impossible to gage without important information. Your comparison to saying he is like his dad in this is absurd.

Sorry I (slightly) insulted your boo, boo.

The fate of Chris Jones 2023 edition
 

It was a dumb comparison. The time to walk away (after you failed at imagining you found insight into this holdout) was three posts ago.

Of course you did. FFS man, nobody gives a ****.

Probably had something to do with CJ’s combine 40.