Fenton too and Bolton and Gay

You have to compare it to how many picks he’s had. I’m not saying he’s bad but before last year you can name one difference maker he drafted over 3+ drafts

He hasn’t had many picks either.

Picking late with few picks.

He’s done fine, and his drafts have gotten better every year.

I’ll give Bolton the grade of good, clearly better than Hitch. And Gay could be good if he stays healthy.

But neither of those two are home runs yet. At least not to the same degree and smith and creed

Fair,

I just don’t like shitting on Dorsey guy was pretty good at drafting he sucked at contracts…

Veach has drafted some ok players. John Dorsey drafted superstars.

He brought this franchise a championship and should be in the ring of honor some day.

Ok John…we get it…

Veach's first draft was shit. But his last draft was great. Draft like last year with all our picks and the Chiefs will be awfully annoying to play against for another 7-8 year run.

You need to mix in those that were drafted at least 10 picks after each of those at 30-39 and 51-60, and could probably expand that even further with Veach and team's ability to scout talent. Tyreek was a 5th round pick...

I think you'll get very little argument that the 2018 draft was a complete disaster.

But from that point forward he's been good to very good.

Thornhill, Fenton and Allegrett are all very good picks for where they were taken. And even Hardman is giving us a fair amount more value than MANY guys taken in the 2nd that year. And he was taken near the back of it. Moreover, he really hit his stride down the stretch last year and there's reason to believe he can continue to progress.

Gay and Sneed have been very good picks, even Danna has been a contributor as a 5th round afterthought.

And last year obviously had Bolton and Humphrey, but Smith was a MONSTER of a pick as well. A 6th rounder becomes a rookie starting G and plays the position as well as all but a handful of guys in the league? Lord, that's an amazing pick.

HRs: Bolton, Humphrey, Smith, Sneed

Doubles off the wall: Gay and Thornhill, both of whom are likely HRs but/for injuries. Hardman's a double but he's rounding second and may make that into a hustle triple before all is said and done. Fenton is also a double but could easily be more than that if he emerges in a starting role this year.

Solid singles: Danna and Allegretti - 3rd day depth contributors are absolutely vital to maintaining roster depth. Nnadi has been a 3 year starter who is staying in the league after his rookie deal as a 3rd rounder - that's more than most will get from that pick.

He has 8 good to very good picks in 4 drafts with a few more really solid ones in there. Yes, Speaks busted in a BIG way and CEH has disappointed, but that's the draft for you. Nobody bats 1.000.

If you add 2-3 starters per draft to your club, you're doing extremely well.

After a rocky start, there is little to nothing to complain about with Veach's draft record.

It will be an emotional day for many when John Dorsey makes his return to Arrowhead.

I cant thank that man enough for all the memories he provided over these last few years.

Veach Super Stars

-Creed/Smith
-Potential Super Stars Gay/Snead/Bolton
-Good Fenton/Hardman

2018 draft sticks out as a huge swing and miss for veach

Sneed and Gay.

Thornhill was well on his way and had a fluke injury. Hardman is finding his way guys - not sure why so many are so eager to shovel dirt on him (and this is from a guy who didn't like the pick from the second it was made). If Fenton is even 80% as good as a starter as he was as a 3rd CB, that's an ENORMOUS win.

You're not really being fair here.

If he was so good he would have a job and not been fired twice in three years

Yes it does.

But it's fair to say he's trending in the right direction, no?

guys, we won a SB with a 'stars and scrubs' roster. Then we made one more.

But the lack of quality depth cost us that ring, and now the bill has come due.

No, you're not going to replace Hill with any ONE PLAYER. But other offenses are just as productive with a combination of guys if not more so, and that's what we'll need to do going forward.

This is the Way.

The 2018 draft he didn't have his people in place so I kinda give him a pass there

Super excited to see the pre draft visit list this year. Gotta figure it's WR, CB, and DE heavy, especially the top 30.

even that is a false equivalency. There are 5 picks in the trade, and it freed up $20 plus million a year. So pick a late first, a late second, two fourths, and a sixth round pick and then $20 million worth of free agent signings.

This Dorsey stuff is schtick, right?

No.

Man Deberg would’ve had such a good thread about this…what might have been.

No it’s fair,

I wanna see more like last years tho to get excited

Maybe, or he could have gotten hurt, etc. We are getting prime picks in one of the deepest drafts in the areas we need to fill. It hurts now, but was easily the wisest decision with Hill's demands...

We just don’t hear about many of those visits anymore.

And even when we won that ring, how many of us were loudly advocating for that approach?

Not to bring Dorsey back into this, but what I loved about Dorsey's approach here was that he was a Ron Wolf 'roster layers' guy. He treated the draft as an opportunity to add talent EVERYWHERE and if that meant some of those guys were depth for a year or two - so be it? Depth will win you football games in this league and a lack of it will lose them.

Then for a couple years on Mahomes rookie deal we went away from that approach and just went on the attack for 3 years. But it's not sustainable at all.

So now we're getting back to building through layers. And that's the way you have to do it. And if that works and you get a new 'foundation' in place, you can then take another 2-3 attack years to try to put some top end on those layers.

This just seems like such a no-brainer to me. I just don't see how anyone can think this is the wrong path forward.

Because of COVID the past couple seasons.

Absolutely not.

John Dorsey is a giant that looms over this entire franchise. It's his legacy that Brett Veach is chasing.

Running him off is the worst thing this franchise has ever done.

I'll never be able to thank him enough for what he's done and if I ever meet him drinks are on me.

He's a Chiefs legend.

I hate trading away HOF players but I guess I get it.

Factor in the super bowl was before a lot of the stars were wanting paid. Bottom line the Chiefs had a number they could go without causing other problems with the roster. Tyreke had another number.

20 million + 5 decent picks could work if the money and picks are used right.

Great framing of the issue. That's the trade-off, yeah. We did make 4 straight AFCCG with the 'stars and scrubs' approach. We didn't just lose a star, we lost a HOF-caliber player. Paying those guys top dollars isn't what kills you I think. It's paying guys like Frank Clark top dollar.

^this^ Add in Thornhill, Gay and Fenton as well...

Did Dorsey whiff on TWO Top 5 picks in his first year as Brown's GM?

But yet he drafted those guys you mentioned with the Chiefs. It's almost like he had a strong scouting dept. with the Chiefs that led him to make some great later round picks, and yet when not having that same solid scouting dept. with the Browns, he made some really bad picks . . . . . . hmmmmm.

If you're gonna talk him up and try and present him as 'the guy' that picked Hill, Kelce, and Mahomes, you need to be equally willing to roast him for blowing TWO Top 5 picks in one draft.

That's only fair.

I think we are on the same page... I'm saying, you can't just look at picks 29 and 50 for the last 10 years and say no one was drafted that were GREAT, but if you look around those picks, there were GREAT players taken. I like this deal, even though it hurts to see Tyreek go.

Good point. Dorsey wasn't working alone. He had a star-studded staff including Ballard and Brett Veach.

He's certainly not perfect. Every GM makes bad picks. He definitely deserves credit for building the core of our SB team though.

My short term disappointment of losing Tyreek is over.

We have made a big move that changed the dynamics of where we were shortly before we traded him.

Big win for Veach.

Dorsey's a tremendous scout and he does an amazing job of creating depth, but when his job and career was on the line he hired Freddie Kitchens which is one of the worst hires in recent history. That's pretty much the end of the discussion right there. He drafted some great players here but like a lot of people he was also very lucky to work with one of the greatest coaches ever. Even then he did not manage the salary cap well and it probably cost him his job.

Not to mention Andy Reid who is one of the greatest offensive coaches ever and did a pretty decent job drafting offensive players when he was the GM in Philly.

How the hell would the Chiefs TRADE him after getting one more year out of him? He only had one year left on his contract. Had they kept him another year, he would have been a free agent and they wouldn't have got shit for him. This was a great move by the Chiefs.

This is very common for smart teams to do.

Belichick traded Richard Seymour at 29 coming off his best year. A 3X all pro got traded to Oakland to become the highest paid defensive player while Bill use kd the 1st rd pick from Oakland to get his LT Nate Solder. He then traded back his original draft pick in that draft to get draft capitol to get Chandler Jones the following draft.

The Packers traded back in the draft from 14 to 27 with the Saints and used that draft capitol to get Jaire Alexander. They used the additional draft capitol to trade up for Darnell Savage.
That enables them to clear cap space later and sign Preston Smith and Za’Darius Smith.

The Seahawks traded back seemingly every single year. They traded with the Packers who drafted Darnell Savage. The Seahawks traded down twice in the 2017 draft to gather a ton of picks. The Seahawks also traded Frank Clark for multiple 1st rd draft picks.

It’s easy to see why smart teams like the Packers trade Davante Adams at 29. It’s smart. That’s why I think this trade was very good for us long term.

Veach just has to hit on those picks and not draft epic failures like Malik McDowell, LJ Collier and Rashaad Penny like John Schieder’s dumbass

People gloss over the fact that Hill said he would sit out.

Plus…it’s not being talked about…but the Chiefs were never going to treat Hill like people wanted them to. That would have pissed off Mahomes and Kelce. Hill brought them a championship and they were going to do right by him. Even if it meant trading away their top weapon.

This trade is what I voted for and commented on the poll.

I didn’t try to argue with people while the wound was still fresh. I think most will come around to this position as well.

We have 1 irreplaceable player: Patrick Mahomes. We need to keep the roster young and flexible. We now have 8 picks in the first 4 rounds and much needed cap space.

That type of flexibility will keep this team competitive for years to come.

The QB prime is really 28-38. We’re just now getting to see Mahomes at his best. It would ****ing suck to have a weak roster around him at that time.

Let's show Kelce some respect as well. He showed loyalty during his contract negotiations. To me, he is also irreplaceable

and that’s why he’ll probably be here through his entire contract.

Yes, but that entire draft was shit. I looked a few times for players he missed on, starting with DE or DL. Not much...a few players have panned out, but that draft was dreck and it would have been pretty easy to reach and miss.

He's only 32... and as long as he is a near 100 REC, 1k+ yards and a near 10+ TD weapon... he'll be in KC.

Denzel Ward is one of the better corners in the NFL, I'd say he absolutely didn't whiff on that one.

A lot of teams weren't all-in on Josh Allen, he had some major warts coming out. From a pure passing standpoint, the two have produced similarly. Allen's running is what's actually set him apart. Allen is still Jekyl and Hyde when it comes to passing performances but he's improving much more than Baker has. So, do you fault Dorsey? I think only in hindsight. I also think coaching has a lot to do with Baker not developing as well, and that is also on Dorsey to an extent.

Dorsey though, he's the type of guy you really want in a role as a Director of College Scouting or even of Player Personnel (he's good at picking through other teams' trash). I think you put other guys with him that are really good at their roles and a competent GM and it's fuel for something great. I think he's in the right role in Detroit but Detroit has issues elsewhere that doesn't help.

For now, yes I agree.

A lot can change between now and the last year of his contract.

I don’t see him going anywhere any time soon.

Agreed. No GM is. And every GM makes good and bad picks, some more than others. But to act like they do it in a vacuum and that they don't have a whole team of people that are responsible for those decisions is a bit disingenuous.

And if we're going to hold up Dorsey as some 'God-like' scout GM that built the Super Bowl team, while ignoring the OTHER team members (Reid, Veach, just to name a couple) that played a part in that success, then we need to be equally willing to look at his time in Cleveland as an abstract failure, mainly due to missing on TWO Top 5 picks in his very first draft there.

That's a pretty BIG stain on a GM's resume that can't be overlooked. It's like some people forget he was fired twice in a period of 5 years by 2 different teams. He clearly has his warts in drafting too.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Still got the Chiefs necklace on though <a href="https://t.co/1r5KG9E0dQ">pic.twitter.com/1r5KG9E0dQ</a></p>&mdash; Jeff Eisenband (@JeffEisenband) <a href="https://twitter.com/JeffEisenband/status/1507022463732965377?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 24, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Did I miss if he issued a statement leaving the Chiefs yet?

I mean, As upset as I am to lose him, I can’t blame him. I personally think it’s greedy, but he is now literally set for life with this guaranteed deal. The NFL gives 0 ****s about players, so once in a while…players have to get victories for themselves. Tyreek loves KC, and trust me he’s gonna miss us, most specifically PM15. There aren’t or shouldn’t be hard feelings in a business type transaction.

What blows is this deal, Devantes, have shattered the WR market…

Excited to meet Waddle but not Tua?

Tyreek coming back to retire a Chief after he’s done in Miami. Save this tweet

Greedy? Just like any American, he is entitled to make as much money as he can possibly make. Especially nfl players who typically have short careers. Good for him.

2021
No first
Bolton 58
Humphrey 63
Smith 228

Powell. 226
Grey 162

2020
CEH. 32
Gay 63
Sneed 138

Niang 96
Dana 177

2019
No first
Hardman 58
Thornhill 63
Fenton 201

Saunders 84
Allegrettu 216

2018
No first
Nadi 75

Watts 124

I thought that was hilarious too

TUA IS GARBAGE

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">End of an era ✌🏿!!! Miami I’m coming home <a href="https://t.co/ykcZcSuy7N">pic.twitter.com/ykcZcSuy7N</a></p>&mdash; Ty Hill (@cheetah) <a href="https://twitter.com/cheetah/status/1506760288258953218?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 23, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Terrible. Greedy asshole with a POS agent and a completely incompetent GM who horribly bungled contract negotiations all led to this.

Can't believe this is real.

I'd be buttering up Tua as well, if only for a place to hang in Hawaii in the the off-season

Denzel Ward was great his rookie season. Since then he has been 'meh'. Yes, I realize he made the Pro Bowl this year, but so did Frank Clark. His ONLY impact play this year was a 99 yard pick 6 of Joe Burrow. That is what put him in the Pro Bowl, nothing more.

As far as Allen goes, all 4 of the QB's (Baker, Allen, Darnold and Rosen) were held up together as Top 10 picks. It was just a matter of picking the right one. John Dorsey picked wrong. If people are gonna roast the Bears for picking Trubisky over Mahomes, they need to be willing to do the same for the Browns going with Baker. He was basically picked for his 'moxy', not his physical skills and traits. That's a pretty big mistake by a GM who supposedly made his hay as a scout. As far as faulting Dorsey, I'm only faulting Dorsey for making the pick because (some) people are sucking his dick over picking Kelce, Hill and Mahomes, as if he did it in a vacuum and should receive all the credit for it. I don't agree with that, obviously, but if that is the position some are going to take, then they need to be equally willing to roast him for his decisions on TWO Top 5 picks in the same draft. Again, he could have had Allen and Derwin James, but went with Baker and Ward.

And, for the record, the whole discussion originated from BR seeming to suggest Veach was a failure for picking Hardman over DK, while singing John Dorsey's praises, and failing to address his picking Baker and Ward over Allen and James. Neither GM's picks were a 'bust', as Hardman has been a solid NFL player, while Baker has been an okay QB at times and Ward has been an above average to good DB.

Would the Chiefs have been better off if Veach picked DK over Mecole Hardman? Of course. But imagine the Browns today if Dorsey had selected Josh Allen and Derwin James with his first 2 picks instead of Baker Mayfield and Denzel Ward. Scary thought.

Thanks Virus

Did you not even read what his agent said? The Chiefs were making progress on an extension right up until the Raiders signed Adams. Then everything changed and it was obvious that Tyreek was going to want more than the Chiefs were going to have. So they gave him permission to seek a trade.

No one bungled anything. And stop crying like a little bitch. You act like the Chiefs just traded Mahomes.

I still really hate this move.

You'll get over it when the Chiefs are still in first place.

Veach allowed everything to be completely dictated by the Fade. He slow played negotiations like a moron and then got caught with his pants down by letting another team act first and drive the price up.

The dismantling of the Dorsey dynasty is well underway thanks to this clown.

Quit being a pussy.. We are about to evolve…

The Bills will use 2 games a year to break his legs

I'm having a hard time believing that this isn't a troll job. Tell me, can you fit all of John Dorsey's elephant cock in your mouth?

Dorsey dynasty? Oh shut the **** up. Dorsey wouldnt have been able to fit a dynasty in his budget. The guy is a front office puppet for the Lions now. Go be a fan of them if you are so inclined.

Tyreek knew Mahomes was broken, this confirms it. Next Skip Bayless

Yes greedy, he could’ve taken less to stay with the core Chiefs. Now, as the rest of post stated, I said I don’t blame him, but that doesn’t make him not greedy. He wanted to be the highest paid receiver after Devontes deal. It’s not as big a deal as folks are making it . I can’t say I wouldn’t have done the same…. Nor would most Americans as you said.

Chiefs got Mahomes and Kareem Hunt in the same draft. Hunt I'm convinced would be on his way to a HOF career if he just stayed in the damned hotel room, or if the TMZ asshole was a Chiefs fan instead of a Pats fan. :(

If Mahomes restructures and we signed OBJ to a deal, we could go from $28M to like $45M I’d cap space.

Tons of flexibility to add vets via trade or FA.

Wasn't there some deadline that already passed for Mahomes to push the bonus down the road? I know they don't have to announce it publicly, but I think they had to have done it already?

Whatever. Adams deal is Adams deal. Hill wanted out of here to live in Miami. He was offered a shit ton to stay and wanted more. Would you have made Hill the highest paid player that's not a QB? Probably not and if you would have then your an idiot like Dorsey. Dorsey is so good he got canned from being a GM twice.

I woke up this morning hoping I had dreamed that we traded Tyreek. Nope, its real!

I still cant believe it? I thought Mahomes, Kelce and Tyreek would play together for their entire careers. They were an absolute joy to watch together, on and off the field. Rare chemistry on display every Sunday.

I agree with an earlier poster who mentioned the feeling when DT died. No, Im not comparing them but I can think of three things that have actually made me sad and upset about the Chiefs. DT of course, the passing of a Legend was so hard to accept.

Trading Jared Allen, he was a beast that had no business being the NFL sack leader after being drafted in the 4th round as a long snapper, LOL. His sack celebration was awesome, loved watching him do that. I was so pissed that we traded him!

Third, is trading the Cheetah! He is ONE OF A KIND, defenses shit themselves worrying about how to contain him. At any moment on any play he could score. BEST WR this team has ever had. This one hurts as a fan of Tyreek and more so of the Chiefs!

One of my good friends is a Doplhins fan, I couldnt even talk to him yesterday.

Im sure nobody read all of that but I needed to vent. I hate this feeling and realize I shouldnt put this much emotion into a sport BUT I DO!

Now, the draft just got a LOT more exciting so I'll turn my attention toward that. I know we have needs on the Dline and secondary but what I want most is a WR!

GO CHIEFS!!

We just hauled in 5 picks from the fish. Dude we can set ourselves up for even better than ever and dominate the NFL the next 10 years with Mahomes

Build Super Bowl Championships though the draft is the best way to go. We got rewarded hansom for trading Tyreek he would have left next year anyways and we would have got jack shit for him.

We are loaded with draft picks. We can move up and snag a guy we like and we are determined to bulk up the defensive line that is a priority in this draft and get a pass rusher.

We can live without Tyreek he cost us some games anyways because he is short and the ball hits his hand and tipped right into the defender. Like the last play in the AFCCG Mahomes threw it to Tyreek but got picked off by taller DB.


Mahomes without Tyreek spreads the ball around and our offense still puts up 30+ points without Tyreek.


You are such a cry baby bitch. This trade could be the best thing for the Chiefs since drafting Patrick Mahomes. Tyreek is 28 that's like 45 for WR years when he turns 30 that's like 60 and 31 or 32 may as retire being 65. Thats the life span of WRs like Tyreek. I can be wrong he stays in top shape but they just hit a wall.

It's ironic that we traded away Tyreek because of the Raiders but I think it's funny when we continue to dominate and have a balance defense and offense and the best Quarterback that is going into his prime years. Tyreek wasn't going make this team any better it would have been the same that defenses figured out. But with this trade we upgrade several possessions and they will find a WR that will be another play maker. WR are a lot easier to find than LT and this trade helps secure a deal to keep Orlando Brown that the Chiefs covet over Tyreek Hill.


Flat out get over it.