Jets would actually be a solid landing spot for him.

Which of these two statements is supposed to refute the fact that Josh McDaniels is a trash head coach?

As said, the towel boys got rings too.

So it must be your position that because he's made a lot of money, he must be good then, right?

Matt Cassel made millions of dollars as the starting quarterback of the Kansas City Chiefs. Do you believe that Matt Cassel was a great quarterback because he was paid millions of dollars? Salary does not equal talent.

There is no way that anyone without a severely addled mind is thinking that Josh McDaniels is going to do anything but embarrass himself further, and plant the Raiders franchise further into the ground.

Fortunately for the AFC West, Mark Davis appears to be just as reeruned as you are.

Carr looks like Joe Namath to the Jets compared to the shitty QB's they have had forever.

I'm gonna miss Carr being the Raiders QB

he kept them from going anywhere, and as a Chiefs fan I appreciate that

there are a few teams with a solid defense that really just need a solid, dependable veteran to be winners. Carr is that, he just wasn't able to make the jump to elite. Needing him to be that was always a fool's errand.

But he's certainly a good mid-level starter. He's in the Cousins class, which can be good enough if everything falls just right to win a Super Bowl.

I don't think Carr is awful and he is a leader but he's had years to prove he was worth the big money and he just hasn't.

If they get Brady I will laugh. He has zero shot to win anything in the AFC.

Same, Carr is a turnover pinata. Smack him around a little bit and he coughs them up like candy. It's as predictable as the sunrise.
I once saw him flop to the ground and turtle up for pressure that wasn't even getting to him.

more money = better than

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25sSLBvk_M8

Dumbshit Jettio conveniently leaves out how many Super Bowl rings McDaniels won as OC in New England WITHOUT Tom Brady as his QB.

I count zero.

But he still made millions of $$$ so I guess that alone qualifies him to be a good HC, according to Jettio logic.

TBF, dude was playing with broken bones in his back when that happened.

Raiders trash defenses had more to do with the failures of the Raiders than Carr did. Rodgers and Brady in the rare years they had trash D's like Carr has had his entire career didn't even make the playoffs.

Didn’t know he had a no trade clause. Good luck getting the best offer.

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overflow:hidden; padding:8px 0 7px; text-align:center; text-overflow:ellipsis; white-space:nowrap;"><a href="https://www.instagram.com/p/CnUgOoNpvrY/?utm_source=ig_embed&amp;utm_campaign=loading" style=" color:#c9c8cd; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; font-size:14px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; line-height:17px; text-decoration:none;" target="_blank">A post shared by Derek Carr (@derekcarrqb)</a></p></div></blockquote> <script async src="//www.instagram.com/embed.js"></script>

Derek would have been an improvement on several Chiefs and most Donkey QBs(long list)

Teams are desperate for a halfway competent QB and will pay to ensure he doesn't hit the open market.

Raiders aren't getting what the Rams paid for Stafford, but they'll get decent comp.

Carr is a better Qb than the Raiders are a franchise. Much like Stafford, he's a good talent in a bad organization. I wish him the best somewhere in the NFC.

Carr in SF? Dundundun

Quitting crying mascara wearing loser.

He's a league average QB. A journeyman who would be an upgrade for a QB-poor team but isn't going to win any titles. Since there are always going to be QB-poor teams, I would guess Carr will find work for a number of years yet in the league.

I don't know why he'd want to be traded, though. He could pick a team on the open market and not set them back in draft capital on his way in.

Don't the Raiders have to cut him by Feb 15 IIRC or his numbers become guaranteed for the year?

It guarantees the rest of his 60+ million contract for the next two years and for the team it insures that they get his services and not some other team. Carr still gets to choose his team via his no trade clause.

Carr might not get as much $ as a free agent. It's all a gamble.

I'm guessing the Raiders will get two 2nd rd picks (2023, 2024) for Carr.

Carolina will probably be the landing spot for him.

If you're Carolina or Atlanta and see that division as eminently winnable, not just now but for the next 3-5 seasons given the state of the division, he should absolutely be an attractive option.

Because whichever of those 2 lands him is going to be the prohibitive favorite, as sad as that is, for the next several seasons.

Interesting. Was wondering why he'd even accept a trade instead of forcing the Raiders hand to just cut him and hit the open market but he's got some pretty big base salaries, even if traded. 33, 42, and 41 over the next 3 seasons. Provided the right team comes calling he may just keep what he's got currently, provided the trading team shifts some of it into guaranteed $$$ for him.

That's easily his best use of that NTC.

You leverage your willingness/ability to waive it to secure additional salary guarantees.

And if you're an NFC south team with a lot of cap space and no viable alternative, you go ahead and give him the guarantees.

Hopefully he goes to Atlanta so I can draft Pitts at a more reasonable spot than people were drafting him this year since many will now be scared off.

See ya later Derek

https://media0.giphy.com/media/QVP7D...giphy.gif&ct=g

Why would any team trade for Carr if they know he will ultimately get cut?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If the Raiders can’t trade Derek Carr by Feb. 15, they will cut him. He is not extending the deadline.</p>&mdash; Vic Tafur (@VicTafur) <a href="https://twitter.com/VicTafur/status/1613571429110538241?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 12, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Because you control the landing.

Nobody's gonna give a 1st for him, but a 2nd? High 3rd? Sure.

I mean everyone knew the 49ers were going to cut or trade Alex Smith but they still got him traded and somehow, against all odds, everyone came out ahead in that deal.

Obviously Carr's NTC could allow him to still blow any potential acquiring team out of the water if he really doesn't want to go there, but that's where the ability to guarantee additional salary comes in.

Someone will trade for him.

I don’t think Chris Ballard can afford to take another old retread bc his seat is on fire. Fortunately for him his old pal Ryan Poles has the 1st overall pick so he could ultimately trade with him to get his guy.

I think Tampa would be a nice landing spot with Tom leaving. Bad division and a good surrounding cast

Yeah, Ballard almost has to go QB at 4.

But man, think of the position he COULD find himself in. This deal has to get done by mid-February, right?

So let's say Carr gets traded elsewhere and come draft time, the Seahawks trade up to 1 for Bryce Young, the Texans go with Stroud at 2. Now you've got Will Levis and Anthony Richardson on the board at 4 - who are BOTH going to take just long enough to perform to get you fired.

So if I'm Ballard and Feb 12 gets here and the Raiders call and offer Carr for a 2nd, I ask for a future 4th back in the deal, grit my teeth and pull the trigger. I guarantee the 2023 and 2024 salaries if necessary to get Carr to accept the deal and waive his NTC.

Then I take a small trade-back into the 8-10 range and draft Anthony Richardson to sit for a couple years because I think it will take him at least a full season and maybe 2 to become an NFL ready player. This may allow me to recover a good chunk of the capital I gave up to get Carr.

In 2025 I hope that Carr has played well enough to spin the trade roulette wheel again and maybe recover a little bit of the draft capital I gave up to get him. And in the meantime I can immediately win football games and I STILL have my really high ceiling potential QBOTF on the roster.

Yeah I agree DJ. Ballard does have a few things in his favor though.

He knows Poles. There’s a relationship there from their time in KC. I severely doubt Poles wants to trade down past 4 if he decides to keep Justin Fields. With the Texans undoubtedly picking a QB at 2, he’d be guaranteed Jalen Carter or Will Anderson.

It seems like a perfect trade for both teams that is just waiting to happen

Is Ballard even going to be there? Seems like Irsay has pretty much taken over most major moves in the last year or so.

Demanded Wentz be gone.
Demanded Ryan be benched
Fired Reich
Hired Saturday

I seriously doubt Ballard gets to do anything that Irsay doesn't explicitly want him to do anymore. Ballard may just want to part ways if it comes to that.

This is what Ballard should do.

This is what Ballard absolutely will not do.

Heh.

Good point

In your scenario, Raiders should trade #7 and Carr for #4. We need playmakers on D, and the best ones will be gone by 7.

From eyeliner to lipstick on some pig, I guess Commanders

That seems like little compensation for Carr. I think more picks would be better for the Raiders with all the positions of need.

It would certainly be a more direct path to a similar result.

I just figured the Raiders would be looking to add picks, not move them around. There's gonna be some pretty solid talent at 7, especially if 3 QBs go before then.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Former <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Raider?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Raider</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/KJ_WRIGHT34?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@KJ_WRIGHT34</a>, who played with Derek Carr is saying what most of the guys on the team CAN&#39;T say right now. Nice guy but he wasn&#39;t the RIGHT guy. It is what it is <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RaiderNation?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#RaiderNation</a> <a href="https://t.co/I2Vf464Jsp">pic.twitter.com/I2Vf464Jsp</a></p>&mdash; JAYFORCE (@Jayforce) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jayforce/status/1613929458137792513?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 13, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

One thing you should consider is that none of these GMs that are on the hotseat are going to want to bet their own career on one of these QB's-none are a lock (or a LUck, if you will), and none are likely to turn around a shit franchise right away.

Nobody wants to draft the QB for their successor.

This KJ Wright?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/KJ_WRIGHT34?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@KJ_WRIGHT34</a> says the <a href="https://twitter.com/Raiders?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Raiders</a> are the team to beat in the AFC West <a href="https://t.co/rxJQYy7cVe">pic.twitter.com/rxJQYy7cVe</a></p>&mdash; NFL Total Access (@NFLTotalAccess) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFLTotalAccess/status/1527068498890878977?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 18, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

If you're coming into a place like Carolina where things are bad, bringing in a journeyman QB will be a drop-in upgrade and will make it look like you've got things headed in the right direction. The down side of that is that you won't have the draft capital to pick the QB who could really be the guy.

The only way to build what the Chiefs, Bengals, Bills etc. have is to push all your career's chips in on one guy.

I was about to say what Razaele said.

The only way to get to the Bills or the Eagles or the Chiefs level is to draft and develop your own guy, likely taking a highly rated guy pretty early.

Otherwise, you have to build your team up ala the 9ers and have a guy steer the ship.

And that's why a smart executive would do both.

It's what the Chiefs did with Smith/Mahomes. They had it coming and going.

Get your veteran with a year or two left on his deal and while you have a shit team with a high end draft pick, take your chances on a high ceiling young guy.

Because at worst, the young guy craters and you still have a solid veteran in your pocket. And you keep your job.

Can we stop all the trade Carr talk? I don't see any team giving up draft picks for a player the team HAS to cut.

Yep. No question.

The problem lies with you have to go ahead and un**** to at least a base level of competency with the following:

Roster: QBs are all well and good, but you have to find 25 dudes that can play and hope you can find some depth somewhere. This is hard. Obviously, because there are some shit rosters in there. Obviously if you are getting a job, good chance the roster is shit.

General Staff: Good chance that if your administration is full of ****, so is your training staff and equipment guys. You have to make sure you address it at some point.

Assistant Coaches: You can't turn loose your shiny new problem solving dudes on coaches that suck.

There are so damn many places that can make an otherwise good coach/QB/System/Approach fail it's ridiculous. That's why the failure rate is through the roof.

But yeah, the smart guys get a competent guy to plug the holes and bring some professionalism. Then you can look for YOUR guy. Not A guy, but YOUR guy.

<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ho9v9NE2Htg" title="DEREK CARR TRIBUTE VIDEO" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

There are maybe a half dozen teams out there right now being held back by trash QB play.

Just off the top of my head I think you have the Falcons, Panthers, Colts and Jets. The Lions would qualify, IMO, as would the Commanders. The Texans suck too hard to make that list. The Bears and Broncos might be pot-committed.

But any of those other teams have a path to both trading for Carr and acquiring a young QB who can take them the rest of the way over the top. And I think both Levis and Richardson have the right mix of tools to be great and warts to push them into gettable range.

So now you just gotta get it right. The plan is the easy part - this seems like a no brainer. The execution is the problem. We'll see if any of these GMs have the chops/stones to pull it off.

Jesus Clay. That is ****ing SAVAGE.

Did you make that?

I dunno, if he'd be happy as a backup, I might flip him for a 7th.

He's better than Henne who at his age has to be about done anyway, and IDK if Buchele is the guy or not, but Carr is better than him. If he'll work for free and be part of something, I'd dump a 7th on him to keep him off the market.

it's clearly barry mccockiner's LMAO

Don't under estimate the stupidity of some GM's... He will most likely get traded and worst case for a mid round pick...

Someone will give up a 3rd for him. At worst.

Betting he gets a 2nd.

Wentz got traded when everyone knew he was getting cut. Smith got traded when everyone knew he was getting cut.

Carr will have trade value.

The issue is people want to compare them to guys like Burrow or Mahomes.

Well, yeah, that's not what I'm looking for if I'm in this hunt. Same with Alex Smith.

I need a guy in here that plays to a baseline and lets me evaluate the rest of the situation and build it up and know what I have or need.

Now, I probably do or atleast should know I'm not winning a SB that way (unless the stars just align), but that's not my goal yet.

Yeah but you get the contract with the player. He has a team option that comes due the Tuesday after the Super Bowl you are not going to pay 40M for a backup QB now are you?

The Falcons have $60 million in cap space right now, with more guys signed for next season they have roster spots available for.

That's before another easy $10 million freed up by cutting Mariotta. A likely cut/restructure for Grady Jarret and they could either trade/cut Matthews and free up quite a bit more (upwards of $20 million depending on how they do it).

No, the Chiefs aren't gonna pay $40 million for a backup. But would Atlanta pay $33 million for a starter? Why the hell not? You give them Carr this year and they win the south. And with Brady gone next season, put Carr on that squad and it's almost a foregone conclusion.

Why wouldn't they pay that?

God...that Mariotta experiment made no ****ing sense. And it made even less sense when they stuck with him at the end of the year. Ridder should have been in at the halfway point. See what the **** he has FFS.

And the ironic thing is the 9ers have a third overall QB pick that they gave up a lot of draft capital to go get, not even playing...

Wouldn't you like to see even 2 more games of Ridder coming into this off-season?

Because he got better every single game. And really, his last 2 games were legit starting caliber play - maybe even playoff caliber. And that was from a guy who hadn't figured out how to use his athleticism yet (which he clearly demonstrated in college).

You'd sure like to have seen if he could maintain or continue to build on that. Because there's a non-zero chance that he could give them anything Carr could, plus some added mobility. But his first 2 games of awful play and his last 2 games of really solid play just aren't enough to answer that question either way.

The experiment was okay - but it was so clearly not working by week 8 that it's just ridiculous that they didn't pivot.

Carr has a no trade clause. Is he going to play ball with the team showing him the door like that?

Patriots, too. IMO.

We'll see if he's the good guy he's always put himself out there to be.

I'd shaft 'em myself. McBugel did him dirty IMHO.

Carr is no different than Trent Green

Article by Hondo Carpenter who has always had Carrs back and has always been a Carr fanboy. Great read:

https://www.si.com/nfl/raiders/the-b...els-mark-davis


"ENDERSON, Nev.-As with any divorce, there are always two sides to what went wrong, and usually, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

In doing my due diligence for this article, I spoke to multiple sources from the Raiders and others who gave me superb information about Derek Carr throughout my three years covering him and this team. I talked to numerous players about the situation and others who would lend credibility to the situation. Here is what I have learned.


After you read this, my goal is not to be happy for one side or the other, and my goal is to tell you the truth, so you can learn how complicated this past season was and why this divorce is better for Derek Carr and the Las Vegas Raiders."

I don't think he'd have moved the needle for NE this year.

Might have made them a little better, but not enough to matter. Mac Jones is pretty similar and I don't see Carr excelling there. The issue in NE is more than their QB - they just lack offensive talent and don't have a viable offensive coaching staff.

So the Chiefs broke them.

By putting it out there and then snatching it away, they gave the Raiders a tiny glimpse of hope and it really sent their season of the rails.

The number of times you see them reference that KC game is really just pretty damn surprising. They really did let one game torpedo the entire year and they are FIRMLY convinced that, had they won it, things would've been different.

KC really is an 800 lb gorilla at this point, either. Merely almost beating them is enough to throw everything into complete chaos.

Lol, 'toraudio'?

Yeah, one of these days I'll remember that filter.

Probably not anytime soon...

LMAO
Hey, I didn't even know the filter existed until a week ago or whatever. Couldn't figure out what was going on for a minute. Just chuckling that someone else tripped over that one.

I mean......that article could have been written in 2009 in KC. It's just patriot way bullshit.

I actually had more respect for McDaniel coming out of that article than I had going into it.

But yeah, if you take Patriots Way bullshit and then put it in the hands of some half-cocked psychopath like Todd Haley....well we saw how it worked out.

I do think that sort of approach - hyperaccountability and details over everything - can work. But man, you've gotta build it from the ground up to avoid these sorts of culture shocks. And you're walking a really really thin line.

Because Carr's reaction is 100% predictable and it won't be just him that responds that way. At some point I think you need some way to salvage that kind of situation.

You just burn people out and they tune you out. I coached my oldest 3rd year old football team this year and it's clear even at that level. Coaching just isn't a one size fits all thing. Some guys need motivated, some guys need coddled, etc.

The biggest part of coaching is figuring out who's who and when to push the throttle, or pull the reigns back a bit.

Try as you might, if you do that, you'll get the 'different standards' label.

I mean, my position is typically "Yeah - I hold people to different standards because...duh, why wouldn't you?"

But you WILL lose guys doing it that way as well.

There's a difference of holding everyone accountable vs coaching them differently though. I think atleast.

Just adding my two cents, but it's all in the presentation.

I remember reading an interview with Montana, where he was explaining his relationship with Bill Walsh. He said that during film review, Walsh would criticize Joe when necessary but wouldn't really tear into him in front of the team.

He'd do it in his office behind closed doors. Joe said some of those office sessions were the worst experiences of his career (but always accurate), but that he appreciated that Walsh never ripped him a new one in front of the team.

When I managed sales offices I took the same tack; I never ripped people in public. Criticisms, sure, but if I felt someone needed a kick in the pants, that happened in private.

He's a clear cut upgrade for a number of teams

Yeah, get used to Brother****ing Cheatriot ****bag puff pieces.

Shit like:

Nevermind that assuredly McDouche spouted off how he was the smartest mother****er that ever lived and could scheme around whatever. It won't ever be the process, it will always be the people. Even if the said process produced those people.

I got a little Franchise Killer Pioli PTSD reading some of that shit.

This did make me chuckle.

Yeah? Smoking your own guy and then shoving some 130 lb camera kid is playing at a high level? Awesome.

Al Davis is credited with the "Commitment To Excellence" that is on walls all over Raider HQ and locker rooms. As a fan who has watched nearly every snap in every Raider game for decades, that slogan has meant nothing for nearly 20 years or so.

The article posted above makes total sense in why Carr needs to move on. He was comfortably coddled in a rah rah environment where "lets do our best and just have fun" was good enough. When the Mc Z team came in, they are all business about doing what it takes to win and that made some uncomfortable. If it hurts some egos and feelings, so be it. It is seemingly obvious most of the team leaders like Maxx, Adams, Jacobs and others have bought into the new regime. Time will tell but as a long time fan, it is refreshing that the expectations of excellence are back and there will be no more players on scholarships. I'm more excited with our GM Ziegler and his drive than I am about McD. Hes a very sharp dude.....I think. Lets see what happens. One thing that is certain, the Raider way of doing things the last 20 years hasn't worked.

Sooo, you all in on Brady?

Haha....I was 2-4 years ago. Can I put his brains and work ethic in a rookies body? ;)

Not an unreasonable post.

But I will tell you, don’t buy in too much. You’re on it. Ziegler matters more than McD. Especially right now. I’m guessing McDouche can scheme. If Ziegler can’t get Dudes that can play in, the message gets stale quick. The saying goes it's not about the X's and O's its about the Jimmies and Joes. Its kind of right, scheme matters not if personnel is shit. but it does matter.

And it’s a problem. Nick Caserio is on record saying he had to go talk to Kraft about trades Belicheat would do without consulting ANYONE in personnel. Obviously Franchise Killer Pioli didn’t know ****all about personnel.

And the detail stuff might be fine for Belicheat who has shit locked down, but it typically isn’t for teams that blow ass. Essentially mental capacity is limited and using it on dumb shit (like gum wrappers and interrogating staff about leaks - like Pioli) leads to missing the boat on big shit (like oh hey, maybe we should figure out if Casshole can play). Ultimately you work on the big shit first and once you’re competent then you can dial in on the little shit.

Maybe McDouche has figured that out. But reading between the lines, it sounds like Cheatriot shit. Pioli sent some goon looking mother****ers to games to make sure everybody was compliant on the sidelines. Nevermind the tire fire on the field. Clark also had to settle some legitimate employee lawsuits because Pioi was a Nazi. Maybe he’s figured it out maybe he hasn’t.

All I can say is good luck. I’m a never a Brother****ing Cheatriot ****bag kind of guy, but maybe it will be different this time.