Do you get my point, though? It's hard to watch the highlights of these players and compare where and when they're getting the ball. Thomas has a LOT more to make his life easy (another stud WR drawing more attention than him, a dynamic runner at QB who has to be accounted for by the defense, and a QB with a bigger arm who excels at throwing the deep ball and LOOKS to throw the deep ball more).

Of course. That's why you can't just watch highlights but figure out what they are doing and then how it translates to the next level.

That's why this shit is hard.


If it was easy actual NFL teams who spend way more time than us wouldn't miss so much.

Which statline is that of an alpha?

Playing same opponent, an elite team with good outside corners who will play Sundays:

Alpha Candidate A: 4 receptions (12 targets)/32 yards 1 TD
Alpha Candidate B: 8 receptions (11 targets)/154 yards 1 TD

I don't care.


I am drafting the traits that work better in the NFL over the slot volume guy.

Not interested in some tiny slot with a 1st round pick.

Terrible use of resources.

Hard to say what they’ll do. This team didn’t draft DL or CB’s with shorter arms and then they drafted Karlaftis and McDuffie, so who knows

With respect to WR's they have passed on guys like

DK Metcalf
Michael Pittman
Tee Higgins
Terry McLaurin
Diontae Johnson
George Pickens
Khalil Shakir

And have opted for

Mecole Hardman Raw, Fast/Gadget Guy with no route running

Sky Moore Plus Release small slot with no other + NFL traits

:LOL:

WRs Legette AND Corley in the 2nd & 3rd? Let's get physical!

Kelce
Rice
Legette
Corley

Move over DBs!

A is Mitchell. B is Franklin.

If you knew that and are categorizing Franklin as a tiny slot-only guy, you’re just way off.

He lined up inside and out and his best reps against Washington are split evenly between the outside and the slot. And his tape from 22 and 23 backs that up.

I don’t have a problem with liking Thomas more than Franklin. I probably do, too if picking between them in a vacuum.

I do have a problem with acting like Franklin is trash or mid-representing his alignment tendencies.

Nope, not trash.

I already said I LOVED Downs last year and Worthy will probably be comparable for me.

The issue is Downs went in the 3rd round.

One of the reasons I still prefer Franklin is honestly I just see an easier introduction for him. He'll do the MVS stuff and then we'll work out what else he can do. I need to see more of Mitchell against press. Franklin's releases look better to me, but Mitchell has more nuance to his route running. I just don't know there's as obvious a path for him. Maybe FA will clear that up if we get a blazer

I expect Franklin to come in close to what he eventually is and Mitchell to be a year or two away from the Focal #1 WR.


And Franklin will feel safe as you can just promote him to the MVS vertical role and now you have a cheap player there.

There's some value to doing that but I won't like the upside of it.

Too cautious when we need a post-Kelce offensive plan.

I'm going to have a very controversial take on "1st round" WR projection rankings:

1. Nabers
2. Franklin
3. MHJr
4. Odunze
5. Coleman
6. BTJr

I think Franklin is a guy who will be All-Pro in the right system. Hopefully its the Chiefs. If you can trade Sneed and secure him at 15-20, you absolutely do it. I'm certain he will produce ridiculous numbers with the right modern QB. Consistent separation. Fits perfectly as a big upgrade for MVS now empty role. He's also a chiefs fan. Its just a yes across the board. I know my projection seems high, but it will make more sense after the combine.

Nabers is a HOF player to me barring significant injury.

Not as high on MHJr, he will be good not great. He's not risky, so I see the allure.

Adonai Mitchell is a huge no for me, attitude problems and slow. Doesn't fit the system at all. He's most effective in the red zone, our plays aren't typically designed for his skillset.

Coleman is underrated, and I wouldn't be upset if he fell to us. BTJr has huge bust potential for me. Wouldn't bite.

Legette is who I would draft in the second. Not Worthy. Worthy is one injury from being out of the league completely. Very one dimensional. Legette has alot of upside, but he's a project.

Polk and Burton are the only other 2 I would consider. I think not drafting WR in round 1 is a mistake.

https://media4.giphy.com/media/oDgPN...=200w.gif&ct=g


I thought the KC news network blog guys were over the top.

Congrats, you topped them.

Thank you! I’ll take that as a compliment!

I don’t shy away from the potential controversy of my personal opinions. That’s why I stated so preemptively in my original message.

I guess you can call me an alpha.

Your preference for toothpick WR's that are weak at the catch point and will be just helpers on the team that drafts them does not make you an Alpha.

Sorry.


LMAO


Troy Franklin is the flavor of the moment for the analytics bros that don't know ball, congrats for jumping on the bandwagon.

And your preference for bigger, slower guys who don’t separate doesn’t make you an alpha, either.

If all it took was running fast in a straight line and the


Acceleration/Suddenness

Routes

Catching Ability


didn't matter then sign me up for frail Franklin.

When Josh Rosen came out I said I would make him my #1 overall pick...

in Flag Football.

Franklin could be Chosen One's WR 1.

;)

If Franklin and Thomas Jr. were both available at 32, right now I don't know who I would choose. Maybe after the combine it will be more clear.

If Keon Coleman was available, I would definitely take him because I think he has the most upside, and a skill set that Mahomes would love to take advantage of.

If we ended up with Polk and Brenden Rice with later picks, I would not be upset at all.

Imagine having Rashee Rice and Brenden Rice on the same team. The New & Improved Chiefs Offense, now with Twice the Rice.

I feel like you are constantly over compensating for something small…..?

For the record I like Troy Franklin - the others in the OP will be taken higher than KC can attain.

ESPN - Mel Kiper first mock has KC at this...

32. Kansas City Chiefs
Xavier Worthy, WR, Texas

I don't see a reason to change the position here. The Chiefs had major issues at receiver last season -- their pass-catchers led the league in drops (38). The word I've used to describe Worthy is electrifying, because he has amazing movement skills in space. He can score from any spot on the field. He had 26 receiving touchdowns over three seasons at Texas.

The one problem with this fit is that Worthy had his share of drops in 2022. He cut those in half last season (from 10 to 5). Most of those were concentration drops. I can see why Chiefs fans might worry about a speedy playmaker who has problems holding on to the ball, but Worthy showed last season that he's past the issue.

XAVIER WORTHY
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/qBil6OEp80k?si=kH8ac1GfVzuiwkjK" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

TROY FRANKLIN
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/1NjsBaGc9mM?si=heCmYQdSaRbcqcg8" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

So, who do you guys prefer? I still like Franklin :thumb:

Brenden Rice, WR, USC
Height: 6-3. Weight: 210.
Projected 40 Time: 4.55.
Projected Round (2024): 3-5.

2/24/24: With Jordan Addison in the NFL, Rice helped pick up the slack in 2023 and turned in a strong senior year for the Trojans. He totaled 45 receptions for 791 yards and 12 touchdowns in 2023. Rice was a reliable receiver for Caleb Williams, using his size and polished route-running to make catches for his quarterback. Rice has good size and uses it well to make contested catches. If he runs well during the leadup to the 2024 NFL Draft, that could help him to rise. Rice is the son of NFL great and Hall of Famer Jerry Rice.


Rice Rice baby!!


Luke McCaffrey, WR, Rice
Height: 6-1. Weight: 202.
Projected 40 Time: 4.53.
Projected Round (2024): 4-6.

2/24/24: McCaffrey caught 71 passes for 992 yards and 13 touchdowns in 2023. During 2022, he caught 58 receptions for 723 yards and six touchdowns. McCaffrey is the younger brother of 49ers running back Christian McCaffrey. McCaffrey performed well at the Senior Bowl to help himself.

WTF is up with your tiny avatar?


A little lion?!


Should be a sheep or a cow.

A herd animal.

Over compensation for sure…

I really like Javon Baker from UCF. He looks like a guy that will be a steal due to a loaded WR class.

I am going crazy waiting for the combine to kick in. I really want to see what Baker runs.

I can't stop watching highlights, etc, and now I am sure that I would take Brian Thomas Jr. over Franklin if they were both there at 32.

I would move up for Thomas Jr. if he gets into the 20s.

But, I am also nearly positive that Thomas Jr. isn't making it into the 20s. He isn't as fast (just my eyes) as Franklin, but his releases are better I think, and he while he can run away from people, he does a lot of the work before the pass is even thrown. I think he is better than Franklin manipulating defenders, reading leverage, etc.

I am not bashing Franklin, because I would love for him to be a Chief, but today I think Thomas Jr. is better.

Those are the areas Franklin needs to improve I agree, but I really like his releases.

Man, I have liked Franklin for a couple of years. Brian Thomas Jr. kinda came out of nowhere for me. I knew he was good, had all the TD catches, but I thought maybe Nabers got all the attention, so Thomas was usually matched up with the lesser corner, etc.

And while that is a little true, I think he can embarrass any corner with his release and get off. And while he doesn't look as fast as Franklin, he strides out and accelerates with a great sense of timing.

I would be thrilled to have any of the top receivers. I know that we can't get the big 3, but I have seen a couple of mocks by the young draft analysts that do the ESPN podcast, and I am high and can't remember the other two I saw, but they have projected Coleman, Thomas Jr. or Franklin to fall to 32. One had Coleman falling, one had Franklin falling, and one even had Thomas Jr. falling.

If we drafted Coleman, Franklin, Thomas Jr., or Worthy at 32, I would be so damn happy. AD Mitchell would be a notch below, but it wouldn't make me mad at 32, unless Coleman, BTJ or Franklin was available and we took Mitchell instead. Then it would piss me off.

If we waited until round 2, I would be happy with AD Mitchell, McConkey, Legette, Polk, or Corley.

My prefence, though, is for a big receiver. I dream of Mahomes being able to throw a jump ball knowing we have a stud that is going to snatch the ****ing ball out of the air.

You want an Alpha WR.


As I said, welcome.

We have t-shirts.

https://www.canva.com/design/DAF-HGs..._source=editor

Chiefs don’t throw jump balls.

Need guys that get open.

If I want a big physical WR, Rice would be my pick later in the draft.

Doesnt baker have character concerns? Is it just the blowing kisses to coaches while he runs by them or more serious stuff?

We're putting together a football team not a play date for your toddler.

**** your minor character concerns! Look at these fools in the NFL parading around after their TDs with pre-planned cheerleading routines. You guys will hang on any minor "character concern" like the kid went and shot up a local mall or something. One kid talks trash, the other celebrates when he wins, come'on!

{looks at Kadarius Toney situation again}

Okay - maybe put a little time into investigating 'character concerns'...

The Right 53 is bullshit. Don't do that. But the league is littered with idiots and malcontents who absolutely refused to get out of their own way.

It's not something to completely disregard, IMO.

Tony literally shot up a local baseball diamond! lol HE WAS AND IS A CHARACTER CONCEN! lol ok, ok, he didn't fire any shots but he intimidated a bunch of dudes with an AK by rolling up on them and chasing them off the field. THAT SHITS CRAY! lol

Speaking of crazy. Which WRs do you see as the riskiest or have the lowest floor with draft position in mind?

ALSO regarding character concerns... Let's not forget Travis Kelce was suspended for an entire season in college.

I'm watching Keshawn right now say "You can't have a team of choir boys and expect to win in pro football. You gotta have a little edge out there."

BTJr, Xavier Worthy

Anyone who wants Xavier Worthy and hates Zay Flowers....



https://www.memeatlas.com/images/bra...-thumbnail.png

Where specifically, has anyone said they hate zay flowers?

Your WR takes are god awful.

ROFL

Where did I say I hate Zay Flowers?

I am done talking to you about draft prospects.


You don't provide even mild entertainment.

Where specifically did I say I hated Zay Flowers? Are you lying now or?

Go on record now.


Do you believe Franklin or Worthy will be better at WR than Zay Flowers?

Show me where I said I hated Zay Flowers and I will.

Go on record.

Which of these WR's will be better than Zay Flowers?


Franklin

Worthy

Where did anyone say they hated Zay Flowers?

Was that said or are you lying?

You just said he is too small and can't play outside.


Your WR takes are bizarre.

He's 5"8 172 pounds. For him to play outside successfully, he's gonna have to be a real outlier. I don't really foresee that being the case, doesn't seem like the Ravens do either as they didn't seem to use him that way in much of the games and stuff I watched.

Could be wrong.

I don't know, maybe watch him play this year?


He lined up everywhere and was the Ravens #1 the moment he stepped on the field as a rookie.

Hmm.. whay do you see Brian Thomas jr as the riskiest player? I get the risk in worthy. Lots of risk there.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/...wers/FLO577002

Seems like most of his work was from the slot? I dunno, maybe you like the slot ish guys and didn't even realize!

When you have an explosive playmaker you move him around to get matchups.


He's not an ideal boundary only player.

So what?

What is your point with all this nonsense? He is an incredible player and it's highly doubtful the Chiefs will get a WR as good as him this offseason.

I think he's an explosive player too. Gotta move him around to get matchups because of his physical abilites and or lack there of.

Just surprised you would like a non alpha guy, non boundary player like that, but not a similar guy like Worthy.

Worthy is fine later in the draft. My issue is people are promoting Worthy as if he is similar to Flowers and Addison last year.

He is nowhere near as good as Flowers in route running and change of direction.

Nowhere near as dynamic as Addison.

So if you aren't going to be a #1 WR or an elite #2, why are you proposing to spend a 1st round pick on the player?

Picking at 32, I'm not gonna get a "first round" prospect. I'd rather have a guy with an elite skill, if Worthy is in fact what they're saying speed and agility wise.

My personal thought, is that I wouldn't take any of the ones available at 32 once the big 3 are off the board because I don't think there's a big jump between them and what I can get in the 2nd round vs what might be there at DT or OT.

Big assumption when this is supposed to be a loaded and talented WR draft.

The Chiefs has passed on

DK Metcalf
Terry McLaurin
Diontae Johnson
Michael Pittman
Tee Higgins


All were available at the 32nd pick so I can see why you are eager to continue the futility.

LMAO

They weren't all first round "prospects" though. They developed into good players, just as some of the guys this year taken in the 3rd, 4th 5th round will.

The Cheifs continually pass on a certain type of WR, that is seemingly hard to understand I guess?

We need to stop passing on star WR talents.

We need to stop gathering junk and garbage like Skyy Moore who never gets cut despite the fact he doesn't belong on an NFL field except as a practice squad player.

Other than DK...I dunno that I'd really call any of those guys true "Stars" though. They're all really good and I'd love to have them, but they're also types of players that come out in the draft yearly.

I still waiting on him to back up his claim that someone hated Zay Flowers. I love how he makes accusations gets called on it and changes the subject real quick like.

Seems like he is over compensating for something small…..

I'll go on record for sure. Are you asking about rookie year or career?

Because when it comes to career, I think both will be better than Flowers but I'm not sure either have as good of a rookie year. Lamar force-fed the ball to Flowers a lot this year.

My comps aren't what you like to hear though. For me, Franklin = DeVonta Smith and Worthy = DeSean Jackson.

But why hold them up against Flowers? :P Puka Nacua, Jordan Addison and Rashee Rice were all better than him. Just the flavor you prefer because he's a slot and you see Franklin and Worthy as slots even though the rest of us don't?

He thinks Flowers is NOT a slot...

Flowers ran 70% of his routes out wide this season.

At least in this respect, he's not wrong.

I mean it's hard to say that a guy who would've started his career with 5 straight 1,000 yard seasons had he not missed 3 games as a rookie isn't a 'star' but I do see your point.

Terry McLaurin isn't a game-changer. He's not a guy you have to gameplan for or you'll lose like Tyreek or Jefferson.

He's just a really good wide receiver. Probably the sort of guy we'd like to see Rice develop into. A guy who you CAN win a championship with if he's your best receiver but not the sort of guy who's going to drag you to one.

But by that kind of definition there are, what, 8 'star' receivers in the NFL? A dozen tops, right?

Seems like semantics really. We've missed on a few damn good players. But that's the draft. Nobody bats 1.000.

ok i was thinking he thought the opposite

I don’t think Franklin is a slot only. I said he’s a Vertical 2 decoy. So he can line up outside and then clear space for other players like Jamo in Detroit.

The MVS role in our offense.


You see Desean Jackson in Worthy?!

Yeah, if I saw that I would be excited too. Don’t see Worthy separating from NFL corners like that.

There's that word again "decoy".

Well, your original question was posed based on projected area of selection. BTJr I’ve seen as high as top 10. And consensus is 15-20.

The main issue is we are talking about a guy who exploded 4x his stats playing alongside two potential top5 picks and franchise pieces. Personally, I’m extremely high on Nabers, and Daniels is my QB#2. To me he’s the odd guy out benefiting from superstars. Not that he wouldn’t be successful at KC. In fact, that’s a place he’s most likely to be successful.

Even Franklin, who I am higher on and is a better fit, would inherit risk at 10. I simply think BTjr is more of an early second round guy. I wouldn’t be too unhappy drafting him at 32. We absolutely have to draft receiver at 32.

Worthy is more of a boom or bust guy.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Worthy been my WR5 for 3 months. Nice seeing community rally behind the analytics recently. He is getting pushed by some as WR3 or WR4.<br><br>Early breakout age is 2nd most predictive variable for college WR success in NFL.<br><br>Worthy broke out as a true freshman. <a href="https://t.co/viFclqXAK2">pic.twitter.com/viFclqXAK2</a></p>&mdash; Elite Drafters (@Elite_Drafters) <a href="https://twitter.com/Elite_Drafters/status/1761595079754469603?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 25, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

CMP-MD
@NJSportsDoc
·
Feb 24
What’s the 1st most predictive variable?

Elite Drafters
@Elite_Drafters
Draft capital.


Lol.

The Twitter analytics bros always bring the fun.

Yeah, here our numbers say Drake London and Skyy Moore are similar...but in the end, the scouts of the NFL determine the value...


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqojWHPaAAEwsAd.jpg

Ya. My thing with Worthy is 1: We have receivers with similar profile that have failed massively. 2: if you’re going to shoot for the moon you might as well go for Mars. Draft Legette and hope his measurables carry him to being DK.

This being in context of drafting at 32.

I wasn't even dunking on Worthy here.

Just find it strange that these Twitter analytics guys do all these numbers and then asked how they will then pick players in Draft dynasty or fantasy say "draft capital".


They don't believe their own bullshit.


:shake:

Yep lol...

He's a "Decoy" despite being 6th in the NCAA in receiving yards and 4th in TDs. Of the 5 ahead of him in yards, two aren't in the draft, and two of the other 3 are going in the top 10 (Nabers, Odunze). He was also 24th in receptions. Only 6 other draft prospects were ahead of him.

Meanwhile, Mr. Alpha finished 60th in the NCAA in yards, tied for 12th in TDs, and finished tied for 83rd in receptions. His decoy teammate finished ahead of him in yards at 31st and well ahead in receptions at tied for 29th.

So Mr Alpha wasn't even an alpha amongst his collegiate peers. But the supposed decoy actually was.

It can, of course. As well as offensive system. Hell even penalties can play a part in the numbers as well.

Let take Jermaine Burton for example. Jalen Milroe ran the ball a lot. Alabama ran the ball a lot last year period. They had a lot a penalties they shouldn't have had on offense as well. At least 4 td's and 400 yds were taken away from Burton on penalties alone that was outside of his control. Now if we were to add those numbers into his final production numbers he surely would have changed what we see. Even those contested catch numbers.

Really liking Corey’s balance and change of direction. 5’11” 220 and a 4.43 is crazy. Hes one of the first 5 guys I’m digging into so it may just be puppy love but damn!

I had written him off as maybe a 3rd rounder until the senior bowl. His routes were precise and his short area quickness was excellent. Plus, his contact balance is outstanding. With a 40 time like that, I’m not sure he will make it to our 2nd round pick.

Man, the way you actively shit on prospects like this is so weird.

If you had an iota of objectivity, you wouldn't do shit like this. This is 100% ego driven bs. Anybody else sees the clip showing his elite start/stop ability, and the point being made in the tweet, and sees it for what it is.

I actually watched Brett Kollman's video on Adonai, because I want a reason to be sold on every prospect. The more good players that are available, the better for us.

I've provided criticisms on Mitchell, but I've also talked about a lot of the good too. And I actually like him a little more after watching Kollman's video. He showed some all-22 stuff, and you see some of the nuance to his route running that you can't see on the broadcast tape.

That point that is being made about Worthy is legitimate and 100% true. The point you're trying to draft capital doesn't even make sense. Worthy will go in the 2nd at worst. The difference between WRs drafted outside of the top 10-15 and WRs drafted in the 2nd is minimal at best.