What really has me worried is the complete overhaul of the personnel department. Dorsey is gone, Ballard is gone, McCracken and Lewis are gone.
4 top guys from a highly successful front office gone.

Veach is an up and coming guy, and I trust the up and coming guys Dorsey hired last month, but they haven't proven anything yet.

There isn't much out there, but everything I've read about Veach is that he's sharp and can identify talent. Hopefully Andy and Clark find someone who can keep this thing going.

ROFL

Hell of a time to flush the front office with a rookie QB waiting in the wings.

Good thing our offensive roster is really young. Schwartz is the oldest piece.

We also have a really nice young core on defense.

As long as the replacement is competent and Mahomes is the real deal, we should be fine. This still sucks though.

What?

It's exactly how much dead money KC has had since Dorsey got here

Yet we still don't know how he can handle contracts.

The point I was attempting to make is that it would be surprising if Clark Hunt didn't have a Plan B option in place.

He's never been one to make hasty decisions in the past so if this decision was made out of spite or anger, it would be his first.

*crickets*

Best place to discuss a sport's team EVER!!!!

Competent will only last so long in such a competitive division.

**** man. Mahomes is not enough. Look at GB for the perfect example. They're competent and have Rodgers and it's still not enough.

This is really disheartening. A front office that gave us bottom barrel gems and cheap all pro's would have been so beneficial for Mahomes going forward.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">What I didn&#39;t like in that 30 for 30 was Buffalo firing Bill Polian after a dominant 4 year stretch. Didn&#39;t exactly lead to further success.</p>&mdash; His Dirknes$ (@HisDirknesS) <a href="https://twitter.com/HisDirknesS/status/878764059474239488">June 24, 2017</a></blockquote>
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I dunno man. He's pretty damn irreplaceable.

I think it's pretty clear that Clark DID review the situation because Trip McCracken, their Director of Football Operations and Will Lewis, their Director of Pro Scouting were released in May, more than 5 weeks before Dorsey fired.

Marvin Allen, their Director of College Scouting left for Buffalo three days after McCracken and Lewis were let go (and took a demotion), so clearly, something was afoot.

Same with Harbough at 49ers.

Some teams do fire the wrong guy and will suffer for it, immediately.
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Why are people saying it's a bad time to fire a GM. The draft is over. There's plenty of time to replace him. I hope Clark takes months to find a top guy.

You are a smart gentleman, so I am certain you have managed employees before, but I can certainly see how enough becomes enough and, as you are approaching enough, you begin to develop contingency plans, should you finally arrive at enough.

Just because Dorsey was blind-sided doesn't mean that's Hunt hasn't maintained a watchful eye over things.

The moment you don't keep your eye on the ball, and prepare to adjust the ship as needed, is the moment your employee, and you, are joining each other at the unemployment line.

It's a "bad time" because most, if not all, franchises will block the Chiefs from interviewing their staffers.

Your 20k posts aren't?

Or is posting pics of burning your apt down somehow what we should be doing on a chiefs message board?

Further to this, no one knows the state of the negotiations with Dorsey's agent.

Its just frustrating that we seem to be moving in a good direction only to have this upheaval...

Hopefully it works out for the better but I fear the worst....vecause chuefs

To add, the contract negotiations could have served as a litmus test for Hunt's concerns as well.

To assume that Hunt was completely unprepared going into negotiations, should they go south, is a bit short-sighted.

I trust Hunt to go into negotiations in good faith, but for him to go into negotiations without a contingency plan is a fool's errand.

ur a dirtbag troll. that is all.

And it means jack shit for reasons I've already pointed out.

Keeping Cassel would've lowered that number so clearly he should've been kept.

That number means absolutely nothing.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash">#Chiefs</a> /Dorsey split had absolutely nothing to do with Dorsey contract situation, despite a few speculative reports I&#39;ve seen.</p>&mdash; Benjamin Allbright (@AllbrightNFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status/878776188076007424">June 25, 2017</a></blockquote>
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Then I will now speculate is had to do with power, shit contracts and hurting Maclins little feelings.

Or evaluate talent anywhere near as well we've seen lately.

Honestly I am extremely worried about the franchise's direction. If it wasn't for Mahomes, this would be the worst offseason I can remember.

My thoughts exactly. I was very very high on Dorsey. I thought he was brilliant.

This fan base will find a way to be high on anybody.

There is a reason why Dorsey got fired on the same day as Reid got his contract extension.

Why are people saying Dorsey was bad with contracts? It seems like revisionist history. I didnt like Houston's and Berry's contracts but in Houston's case, the guy had just had a 22 sack season. The only option that could have been better than what Dorsey did would have been to tag Houston as his value could only go down IMO after that monster season and then give him his contract the following year. In Berry's case, I think we gave him too much but again it seems like Dorsey was absolutely standing his ground but at the end of the day Berry just had had a great season and he wouldn't budge. Maclin's contract was not bad though a bit risky because of his injury concerns. When we signed him, I can't remember any fan being disappointed with that contract as the Chiefs were severely lacking talent at WR and the contract seemed on par with what was given around the league at that moment.

Anyways Dorsey was a great talent evaluator and that trumps all.

I thought with Dorsey we were to be a perennial winner like the Steelers, Packers and Ravens.

Ok Im not that high on Andy Reid. Definitly a good coach but he has clear flaws, mostly clock management, that will make you cringe. When I see he is ranked a top 5 coach on that NFL.com article, I feel like he is overrated.

That's a cop-out, sorry.

The dead money is a direct result of his poor ability to negotiate contracts. The man could draft and spot cheap talent better than about anyone else...but he was pretty bad at signing free agents/re-signing players.

Bowe getting 55m
Dunta Robinson 3/14m
Donnie Avery 3/9
Chase Daniel 3/10
Joe Mays 2/6
Ben Grubbs 4/24
Josh Mauga 3/8
Vance Walker 3/14
Restructuring Brandon Flowers then cutting after June 1st the next year.
Letting Hali's deal void (4m in dead$) and then signing him to a silly new deal.
Fanaika?
McGlynn?
Signing Jaye Howard and cutting the next year with 4.2m in dead $
Breaking rules to sign Maclin (costing us a third) and then cutting him 2 years later 5/55m

Saying the dead money means absolutely nothing isn't an opinion I'd think you'd have.

How is anybody still paying this hack?

He straight up makes up his stuff.

I'll just repeat myself.

Some dead money matters, yes.

Your figure, on the other hand, means ****-all. Saying $78 million as though that figure has any relevance is asinine.

Outside of the draft...what was he above average at?

He's a great scout. That's about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You need to change your Adopt A Chief

Reid is the guilty party for the tampering.

Twitter is free. :shrug:

Shut the **** with this bozo

I'm trying to be fair about the situation and judging based on results.

Most of that dead money is from guys he signed and had to cut the next year or after 2 years.

I loved having him as KCs GM and was happy when the common theme was he was going to be in KC for a long time. His ability to identify cheap talent and draft like a complete stud was a difference maker.

That said, he also was pretty bad with contracts, trades and free agents.

If KC is able to retain its scouts and continue to identify talent through the draft, we'll be just fine.

This coaching staff doesn't get enough credit for how well they have done at developing the talent they are given. This team plays at a very high level and is basically built of kids.

I respected your food threads, until you managed to not only burn the product, but your house in the process.

Hopefully it doesn't take forever to get a new GM in there. No GM means that rookie contracts dont get done. Which means Mahomes doesn't start training camp on time.

So you think Reid told Chunt its either him or me over Mac and Berry? I dont buy this knowing he pushed for Dorse as GM to Clark.

Oh look another "burning down your house" joke.

Well, when you fail to consider wood as an ignitable source, it kind of lowers any other thoughts of cognition you may convey.

I could easily say, "Look, another 'Chiefs fan base' joke," in response to your post.

Getting sick of hearing about burning down your house? I'm tired of reading your continuous, repetitive takes, which offer nothing to the board or humanity.

Drop the gimmick, acting like you're the all-knowing, and you'll become less of a target. When you're being you, you're decent. Drop the facade.

Terez Paylor asked 12 different personnel executives across the NFL about this job and they all said it was ideal.

Sounds like Clark is going to have some very good candidates to choose from.

Despite bizarre nature of Dorsey firing, Chiefs’ GM job seen as ideal across NFL - Kansas City Star
https://apple.news/AY5GVaohgOOmmO7z4n46Wrw

This is the most logical post I've seen regarding this situation and what I have heard from commentators:

Cmon folks, it's common knowledge that as soon as the Green Bay job opens up, he's the leading candidate. Hunt wanted to sign him to 4 years, Dorsey wanted 1 year. Hunt knows he would leave as soon as the other job opened. More than likely he is being proactive instead of reactive.

I wonder if its not about medical issues not handled properly.

Wait, what the **** did I miss?

It really all depends on what guys are allowed to interview.

Common knowledge? Not sure about unless GB is lieing after saying publicly he's not. No doubt Dorsey would throw is resume on their desk but the job is not his to lose.

I'm pretty sure Clark has the authority to sign off on a contract.

Contracts can still get done without a gm.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ex-Chiefs GM John Dorsey told a source within past 2 months that he was &quot;butting heads&quot; with owner Clark Hunt recently. Didn&#39;t say why</p>&mdash; Jason Cole (@JasonColeBR) <a href="https://twitter.com/JasonColeBR/status/878056842202537984">June 23, 2017</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I think the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash">#Chiefs</a> job would be a very appealing one in the league in terms of the scouting department built, roster &amp; coaching staff.</p>&mdash; Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jacobs71/status/879024798386540546">June 25, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Roster wise you don&#39;t need a ton of starters. Just increasing depth in most spots &amp; find some future replacements for older vets on defense.</p>&mdash; Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jacobs71/status/879025649712848897">June 25, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Offensively they have QB of the future, youthful &amp; athletic OL, good RB/FB group. Young WR corp &amp; youthful TE group.</p>&mdash; Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jacobs71/status/879026123975348224">June 25, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Defensively, DL replenishing has happened. LB Corp needs answers for Hali &amp; Johnson in next year or so. Secondary still youthful.</p>&mdash; Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jacobs71/status/879026640378003456">June 25, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I have no issue with the direction the organization went. For me it felt like this team was always a couple pieces away from the goal.</p>&mdash; Nick Jacobs (@Jacobs71) <a href="https://twitter.com/Jacobs71/status/879027727990435840">June 25, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Who cares what a local broadcaster believes about the Chiefs gig?

Seemed like logistical, fair takes to me. Also, if you keep up with Jacobs at all, you should know that he is a bright dude when it comes to football.

https://www.google.com/amp/profootba...m-opening/amp/

Louis Riddick is in play for the job.

I've ignored the KC talk radio since 2002. KK is a moron and for whatever reason, Petro decided to follow suit.

Well I don't know about the radio personalities, but I just follow Jacobs through twitter and he's consistently getting stuff right it seems like. He also does film reviews during the season through Snapchat.

I still remember before the Panthers game last year, he was highlighting that the Chiefs could do some damage defensively if they take advantage of some heavy A-gap blitzes. That's just what they did on the Berry pick-six.

That wasn't a pick six, that was highway robbery.

Berry outmuscled Benjamin for the ball.

As far as I can remember, I've never seen anything like that before.

Wasn't it Peters that strip the ball from his hands?

Yeah, Peters. My bad.

Probably not the ideal situation.

Veach, Bargonzi, and Terry are here and I'm sure they can turn the roster based on TC cuts, but it would be more ideal to have a guy with final say in place a while before that point comes.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">John Dorsey left the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash">#Chiefs</a> in financial disarray. Was that why he was booted from KC? <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ChiefsKingdom?src=hash">#ChiefsKingdom</a> <a href="https://t.co/794CwcByLH">https://t.co/794CwcByLH</a></p>&mdash; Joshua Brisco (@jbbrisco) <a href="https://twitter.com/jbbrisco/status/879035685050699780">June 25, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Some pretty surprising info in this pod, specifically from Benjamin Allbright (skip to around 31:00 for that interview). One thing that stood out was Allbright claimed that some people within the front office have been upset about the amount of credit Dorsey receives for good players we have acquired. Said that he had much less to do with personnel acquisition than people realized.

We're about to find out.

Allbright also shuts down any notion that Reid/Hunt did not want Mahomes. Says that Reid wanted Mahomes badly, Dorsey made it happen.

Looking back, Ballard did a lot of the early leg work on Mahomes before John did. I also remember Dorsey's press conference about Tanoh saying that one of our scouts told him he had to see "this Villanova kid" at the Senior Bowl so John didn't know much of anything about him until he met him in Mobile.

But that's just a dumb sentiment in general. The GM will always get the credit. Dorsey was highly respectful to his scouts though. Having them answer questions to the media gave them a ton of credit and respect.

Vultures circling the wagon, look forward towards all the outstanding talent that is brought on board now that Dorsey's worthless ass is out of the way. :shake:

Sources: Communication, management style were factors in Chiefs’ firing of Dorsey

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html

The Chiefs have compiled a 43-21 record the last four years thanks to the work of coach Andy Reid and general manager John Dorsey, all while publicly and privately painting a picture of internal harmony and teamwork. They managed to stay unified and on message even during tough times, like the NFL’s tampering investigation into the free-agent signing of Jeremy Maclin that led to fines and the forfeiture of draft picks.

But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity. As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.”

A message left with Dorsey seeking comment for this story was not immediately returned. Dorsey’s firing was announced Thursday, the same day Reid received a contract extension. Both men had a year left on their contracts and report separately, but directly to Hunt. That structure will remain when a new GM is hired. While sources have consistently maintained that Reid and Dorsey worked well together — “You never got the impression they were sparring,” one source told The Star — the two also had different approaches to their jobs.

While Reid has a reputation for being structured and process-oriented, Dorsey was described by those who know both men as looser. “He goes with the flow,” one source said of Dorsey. That style didn’t always mesh in situations outside of Dorsey’s undeniable strengths, picking and evaluating players. The other areas Dorsey oversaw were contracts and salary cap management — and the Chiefs have been in cap trouble for a while — in addition to the general, day-to-day management of the team. “He’s not a big disciplinarian or big on chain of command,” a source said, “so people did what they wanted.” “It’s more about his management skills,” another source added.

For instance, the typically stable Chiefs also made waves this offseason when Dorsey released director of football administration Trip MacCracken and director of pro scouting Will Lewis. Each man had been with the team for at least four years, and not only were their dismissals surprising, there weren’t many answers to be found, even inside the organization. “Those decisions were totally John’s,” a source said. “That’s the kind of stuff he does.” Sources also critiqued Dorsey’s management style, noting that while he was often friendly and jovial, the same tongue-in-cheek manner he used to win over most people over eventually wore on others. “It could rub people the wrong way at times,” a source said.

Dorsey still has fans inside the Chiefs organization. They cited his passion for the game, constant availability and eye for talent as respected strengths. “Loved working for him,” one source said. “Great dude.” “He was always great to us …,” another source added, “You hate to see something like this happen.” Dorsey also has a number of supporters across the league, as an overwhelming amount of league sources who dealt with him on a regular basis — approaching a dozen — told The Star. “He was always a guy that would listen, was a pro, good to work with,” one league source said.

“One of my favorite people in 20 years in the business,” another source said. “Honest and straightforward. Man of conviction. Was shocked and sad to see the news.” Multiple sources also called Dorsey a friend on a personal level, noting that it was not unusual for him to call just to say “hello,” even when on vacation. “A consummate pro’s pro in negotiations,” one league source said. “Always up front and straight, and a super talent and football evaluator.”

Other league sources agreed with that notion, adding that Dorsey’s standing as an evaluator of talent remains peerless. “He is a dyed-in-the-wool scout, loves the element of watching college players, loves breaking down film,” said Andrew Brandt, who spent 10 years as a Green Bay Packers vice president alongside Dorsey and writes for TheMMQB.com. “That always seemed like that’s what he was most happy, and most comfortable, doing.”

It’s a trait that, communication and management issues aside, many league sources believe will be difficult for the Chiefs to replace, especially on the heels of the club losing Dorsey’s talented and respected right-hand man Chris Ballard to Indianapolis five months ago. Ballard is now the Colts’ GM. “I loved him,” one league source said of Dorsey. “Blunt, honest and a great talent evaluator. Losing him and Ballard in one offseason is insane.”

Brandt said he wouldn’t be surprised if the Chiefs prioritized talent evaluation, along with leadership and communication, with their next hire. The Chiefs are already over the projected 2018 salary cap, but there’s a widely-held belief around the league that whatever cap issues they have can be rectified in a year or two. “We have this traditional version of an NFL GM coming from a scouting background, like John — and that’s the most popular GM model,” Brandt said. “Then there are a few coming from more of my background, which is from the financial side, about business and cap contracts. The third model is one Andy had in Philly, which is coach/GM.

“To me, the real underappreciated trait you want from a GM is leadership and communication, because the GM will be coming from one of those backgrounds and will need to communicate seamlessly with what he’s not an expert at. Teams sometimes rush to sign an expert in one area while maybe not taking into account the necessity for communication in other areas.”

DaneMcCloud 140
penbrook 95
Hammock Parties 73
staylor26 43
RunKC 42
petegz28 40
Cochise 39
O.city 38

I wonder if only I look at post numbers in some of these big threads. Pretty interesting.

So we are 13 mil over for 18. Will have 10 mil in dead money most likely.

Damn Dorsey was ugly with the money. That's 5 straight years of no damn near no money and we have to keep Peters.

That will be tough but at least it seems Smith will be gone. It's worth it.

But behind the scenes, the Chiefs’ front office did not always run smoothly under Dorsey. Team chairman Clark Hunt’s decision to fire Dorsey was fueled, in part, by concerns about his internal communication and management styles, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the situation who spoke to The Star on condition of anonymity.

As one of the sources said while describing how Dorsey had removed two front-office executives without much explanation: “John does stuff and doesn’t tell people why.” Another source said Dorsey’s management style “could wear on people.”

Terez Paylor

Woah some people didn't like John in the department.

http://amp.kansascity.com/sports/nfl...158155634.html

Maybe, it could be that Reid and Hunt discussed it and reached the conclusion together. Maybe Hunt just wanted approval of his decision.

It's no different than assuming that Dorsey did nothing wrong here. We have to look at this from both sides.

Dorsey was amazing at some aspects of his job, and not so good at other things. As far as we know. We can't say for sure exactly why Clark and Andy thought this needed to happen, but they aren't stupid. They have at least some reasoning in mind, and a plan to back it up.

Like John Middlekauff said, when it comes to a head coach and his staff vs. a personnel guy--you keep the coach everytime (assuming he is good).

Every piece of evidence that implies that this was building up over time only pisses me off even MORE that Ballard is gone. If stuff was bubbling with Clark, than he should have made a move before Ballard left. If something crazy happened or this was all post January stuff then maybe it's not on Clark.

In the end, Clark had 2 great personnel guys here and now he doesn't. Maybe there is more in the cupboard but who knows. Our depth is a lot less, that's for sure. We weren't going to have both Ballard and Dorsey this year, but would have been nice to keep one.

You can bring in people to help with contracts and the cap. All the "poor treatment of employees" crap is just that. Maybe he needed to work on that, but considering the talent he has brought in, how he fires Maclin or how poor he is at communicating info to other employees can't be the reason to fire him. There needs to be some patience with that stuff and IF there had already been a long string of patience with that stuff then don't let your second in charge go. The top to bottom audit should have happened pre-January. Clark knew Ballard was gonna be getting GM offers.

Always thought that the contracts handed out were on the high side. We always seem to pay towards the high side for trades him made as well. Doesn't change the fact that Dorsey had the best eye for talent of any GM we've had in a long time, maybe ever. People trying to talk like Dorsey was just average and it will be easy to replace him. Acting like it was really Reid that did it all. Bullshit.

It's a better than average chance that the team slowly turns to shit now that Dorsey is gone. At least we still have some of Dorsey's personnel dept in place so maybe they can keep it up. If we get another dumbass as GM we are ****ed though.

There's a subtle difference there, though. We know that Dorsey is the man when it comes to contract negotiations and trades... but we don't know that he is directly responsible for all of our good/bad draft picks.

For all we know, it was Ballard who knew we needed to take Peters. Maybe it was Veach who banged the table for Chris Jones. Maybe it was a scout that wanted Keivarae Russell, or even Tyreek Hill.

Those are things we may never know.

Yeah but the GM has final say in all those matters so Dorsey deserves most of the credit. He probably looks at the tape from all the scouts recommended players and decides for himself. He was a former scout.

Dorsey will definitely be missed IMO. He did a good job here.