We can agree to disagree about the injury, but one this is for sure. The Chiefs are intrigued by the potential value and have gone as far as to bring him in for a top 30 visit. It's possible they even worked him out a little bit, since he did some at the Ohio St. pro day. If they take him, it is 100% safe to say they feel really good about what they saw and the medicals.

His production was strong, but physically he was not the same player. And his production TANKED following that.

Is that for sure?

Or are they using a top 30 visit with him as a smokescreen, as they have in the past, and as NFL teams do all the time.

From JJ Birden to Luther Burden III

But Patrick's probably tired of the bullshit and will want max protection, two tackles in this draft, one early, he needs to think of the second half of his career and he needs a stable line to get where he needs to be. The haircut, workouts and body transformation are nice, but the logistics point to solidifying lines. I guess it depends if we want to unlock the deep ball or not, not enough time to throw if you don't nail that LT position, meaning Worthy is minimized by his route selections just like last year. You want to unlock Worthy, you get an LT, you want to unlock the offense through pick your poison, you draft WR, those are my two picks.

Luther Burden kinda sounds like a bbq place

The point is that if they take him, they've obviously done their homework extensively.

I think that had a lot more to do with him approaching 30 than the injury because he absolutely looked like himself in 2016. He was fantastic that first year in Seattle, and it wasn't just production, but it was the highest YPR of his career. I don't think you're being fair here.

You want to gamble on Simmons in the 2nd? Be my guest.

With a 1st? Abso****inglutely not.

I don't know when I would make the gamble personally, because I don't have enough information to determine that. I am 100% giving the Chiefs the benefit of the doubt whatever they chose.

It just blows my mind that people can see how cautious the FO and the league in general is with this stuff and still not trust them if it's what THEY decide to do.

They waited until day 3 to pull the trigger on Trey Smith, and you just know they had to feel pretty good about it just to take him with a measly late pick. I don't think they'd would waste a 1st round pick on a guy they don't feel extremky confident about.

I disagree. He was noticeably less explosive. I owned him in a dynasty FF league that year. His jumping ability was not the same, his speed took a step back, and he just wasn't as explosive. The numbers were good but he wasn't the same player. (And his high YPC was a function of being in a run-based, play-action offense).

If he didn’t have the injury what would you think? Bc my God his size, strength, foot quickness and hand usage is really good. His footwork and hands make Wanya and Kingsley look like a ****ing practice squad player. He’s really ****ing good as a prospect. He’s a good tackle prospect minus the injury. That’s not really debatable.

It’s literally the injury and character concerns, which they may know more than we could think to know. We know Burkholder put him under a microscope so if he clears him, I think they’ll take him if possible. The character concerns are accepted by this franchise. I’d imagine they trust the leadership of the locker room to take him.

I will say this: there’s a big difference between a Tackle and a skill position or DB player. He’s not cutting, running 40+ yards downfield or running the same. 90% of his job is within 10 yards.

Also wonder if medical advances were done on him? Suture anchors are the new thing that Aaron Rodgers had done on his Achilles which greatly helps recovery and prevention of re-injury. I read that that is used for this tendon surgery as well. That might be the case bc **** me that guy looked loose at his pro day. Dude was moving after 5 months post-op and it was nuts.

Listen fellas. If Burkholder clears this kid and Andy Reid feels like he’s his guy, you ****ing do it. I trust Andy here. There is no better draft to do this if our staff really believes in a tackle.

I do not believe in Jaylon Moore long term. Neither do the Chiefs based upon his contract. Josh Simmons scares me. I’ve made no changes in that regard, but if they take him I’d imagine they did an incredible amount of due diligence on him. I’d trust them if they went this way.

They’ve earned that trust.

Sorry man, but I jsut think you're seeing what you want to see. We can agree to disagree but here's a video for anybody that would like to see 2016 Jimmy Graham:

https://youtu.be/DKrRdgFOVmQ?si=vSZdbXb5SX5lu9uR

We can agree to disagree. He didn't get up and high point the ball the same way (even in that highlight clip, he is not dominating by getting ABOVE guys the way he did before the injury. Size and ball placement), he didn't run away from LB like he did before the injury.

And even if he WAS the same in 2016 as he was before the injury... (1) That's the best example you can find and (2) it was short-lived.

But he did have the injury. Cannot get away from or around that.

OL knee strength, flexibility, and soundness is still super important to what they do. No, he isn't cutting 40 yards downfield. He's just anchoring and redirecting and fighting for leverage and balance constantly, with combined weights of 600 pounds usually at odds.

If the team takes him, I'll be hopeful that they're right and he's the unicorn, and not LeCharles Bentley or Jack Conklin or JC Jackson or Jarod Mayo or Victor Cruz or Ryan Williams or Cadillac Williams or Lucas Niang or or Andre Roberson or Jeremy Lin or Victor Oladipo or any of the other dudes who were never the same again.

I don't care about past tense with him. Sure, before the injury, he had all the things you reference and was a superior player and prospect to Morris and Suamataiea. But we don't know that he still is (and running around in shorts and a t-shirt in workouts isn't going to prove that he still is, either).

Kinda thinking they will select K Grant

I hear there were some discrepancies, but not that much. I guess those dudes just made several millions more dollars.

Yea, it was an outlier year in terms of those discrepancies, and the only logical explanation is whoever measured at the combine ****ed up royally.

Here's a research study on patellar injuries[/URL]. Not good news - of the 16 OL who've had the injury over the past 15 years, only 2 made it back to the same level. That makes it VERY risky. I'm sure there have been advances in medicine, but it seems like an awful lot to gamble on.

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11806464

Bear in mind, there are a lot of other teams in front of us who would love a high ceiling tackle. If he's available to us, it means their medical staff didn't feel good enough to take him with what would be a value pick for them too.

Yeah, I don't have the ability to know the medical. If the Chiefs clear him I would be excited because he has Pro Bowl LT ability.

They might, though.

Look, I love this front office/coaching staff as much as the next guy, but the reason I'm a huge fan of them is that I recognize they're capable of making mistakes, and that's okay because the entire game of NFL personnel management involves making mistakes from time to time. When I "put my trust" in them it's because I recognize that they can do a better job than all but a small handful of other NFL front offices in team construction, and the results over the years certainly show that.

If the Chiefs took Simmons, and you hooked Veach up to a lie detector and asked him if he was extremely confident Simmons could play up to the potential he had before the injury, I don't think he would say yes. I think he would give an answer like, "our training staff told me he's fully recovered, but we won't know what that looks like until he's in pads hitting people." In which case, the Simmons pick would be an additional roll of the dice beyond the scouting component you do in these kinds of situations.

The Chiefs need a LT. And I recognize I can sit here as a fan and say it's too risky to take Simmons, but that's a luxury Veach doesn't have. That was the position he's been put in the past two seasons. It was survivable with Donovan Smith for the most part, and last year it wasn't. In both years because the FA market didn't present him with a good option to effectively solve the crisis, he was left with being cornered into assessing risk, and he determined the risk wasn't worth it.

He might finally be in a position where he knows he can't keep biding his time and waiting for the solution to fall into his lap. He might be pressured to finally take that risk, unfortunately.

If he gives into that pressure and rolls the dice on Simmons, I'll sit there with my butthole nervously clenched for awhile and hope for the best.

Veach had always said he defers to medical team on medical.


What you said contradicts every statement Veach had ever made on their medical staff.

We all may not even have to think about Josh Simmons, and I may have to change my pick in light of new info.

The Arizona Cardinals hired Justin Frye as their OL coach. He was the Ohio State OL coach since 2022. He was literally Josh Simmons coach his entire time at Ohio State and they had a private visit with him, so the Cardinals probably know more about Simmons than anybody.

RT may be the biggest hole on their roster bc Jonah Williams is a dumpster fire who can barely play 8 games a year and they have literally nobody else.

I’d say odds are he goes there at 16.

Ahh, see. There's the dumb franchise that you let keep doing the things that dumb franchises do.

Then there's simply no way the Chiefs will take Simmons. 0%.

Like I said in the OP, I think it could just as easily be Conerly.

Either way, my gut is telling it's one of those 2 Ts.

If it's not, it probably means Nolen, Harmon, or Grant.

I think TreVeyon Henderson is the darkhorse.

Jeremy Crawshaw I’m thinking

I'm not a doctor.


But when you say 0% that is strange because the mock draft talk has this guy going in the 1st even now.


Maybe the mock drafters are wrong, it does happen every year on a few players.

The Broncos are going to take TreVeyon Henderson and it’s going to piss me the **** off

I like your late round RB idea a lot better.



Give me Jarquez Hunter later on.

Josh Simmons

Was in a mock draft podcast last night with some trades. Here's how it went


Giants Cam Ward, QB
Browns Travis Hunter, WR/CB
Titans Abdul Carter, DE
Patriots Will Campbell, OT
Jaguars Mason Graham, DT
Raiders Ashton Jeanty, RB
Jets Armand Membou, OT
Panthers Tyler Warren, TE
Saints Shedeur Sanders, QB
Cardinals Tetairoa McMillian, WR
49ers Jalon Walker, LB
Cowboys Mathew Golden, WR
Dolphins Nick Emmanwori, S
Colts Shemar Stewart, Edge
Vikings Will Johnson, CB
Bears Kelvin Banks Jr, OT
Bengals Mike Green, Edge
Seahawks Jahdae Barron, CB
Buccaneers Jihaad Campbell, LB
Broncos Emeka Egbuka, WR
Steelers Kenneth Grant, DT
Chargers Colston Loveland, TE
Packers Malaki Starks, S
Falcons Mykel Williams, Edge
Texans Josh Simmons, OT
Rams Grey Zabel, iOL
Ravens Maxwell Hairston, CB
Lions James Peace Jr, UT
Commanders Donovan Jackson, iOL
Bills Derrick Harmon, DT
Chiefs Luther Burden, WR
Eagles Walter Nolen, DT

You picked for the Chiefs?

If so, you should've taken Nolen :cuss:

I was one of four people drafting and I did and I passed on him on purpose. There are a ton of DTs in this draft and you can get one in the second.

What you can't get in my opinion is Luther Burden and I think he's going to be a difference maker. I admit having a wide receiver fetish though.


I was going to trade up to 14 for Tetairoa McMillian but a guy who didn't do his research did that for the Cardinals.

NOPE. No way Veach is letting the Bills take Harmon one spot before us and letting the Eagles take Nolen one spot after us. No way.

I love Burden, but I just don't think they're taking a WR in the 1st, especially with Nolen on the board.

I'd also just rather have Nolen and one of Jalen Royals, Kyle Williams, or Tre Harris over Burden and one of T.J. Sanders, Omarr Norman-Lott, or Shemar Turner.

I like Nolen but I don't think he's some magical unicorn that we have to take him over other guys.

I do think Burden has sleeper star potential.

I think they both have star potential. You're underrating Nolen's upside a little.

Unless Veech was just doing propaganda during his press conference, he indicated that Edge and RB's were loaded but indicated DT there were only a handful. I would not be surprised if he wants more of a all around DT early not just a space eater you can get later. Also would not be surprised of he is not looking at 2 this draft.

Chiefs going to move up in the draft and take one of the top LT.

yeah I’m not so sure about that because I don’t really like any tackle in this entire draft

Where do we need upgrades or replacements or rotational guys? I think DT, LT, RB, and maybe one could argue LG, CB.

I'd be a little surprised with an LT since we've got a lot of developmental guys in the hopper and an immediate solution in place.

I'd be a little surprised at a RB in Round 1 (though not shocked if a top guy falls to us).

I'd be surprised at a LG in Round 1 just because guards don't usually go in Round 1.

There seems to be a lot of DT talent available so I could see them waiting until Rounds 2 or 3 there.

I don't see us taking a guy with a bad reputation given the Rashee problem.

My guess will be a bit out of left field. I'm going to go with Benjamin Morrison, CB, Notre Dame.

My backup choices will be Trey Amos and Shavon Revel, both CBs.

(Edit: it looks like Morrison is getting mocked lower each week, so maybe I'll change my selection to Trey Amos instead.)

I think getting a top CB will let them move McDuffie back into the slot, and will also give us more depth. We saw what happened when Watson went down for a while last year.

I think all the LT (Simmons) stuff is smoke....

The rumors are so overt, unlike the ninja skills of silence of the Mahomes trade up.

I dived a little more into tackles. I wouldn’t mind Wyatt milum third round(he grades as the best pass blocker in this class in some charts). Derrick Harmon first round.(by far most disruptive dt pass rushing. Best running back available second round.

Anyone not like Skyy Moore

If jeanty somehow fell to mid to late teens that’s a player I’d be on the phone for. No one else really

I just want Veach to help Mahomes and attack the pass rush. I get last year was an outlier that had WR1, WR2, RB1 out for most of the swaps and WR 4 (Ju Ju out) out a month, but man.

We are so slow on offense outside of Worthy and Hollywood. We need a dynamic RB and another explosive receiving threat in the worst way.

I think the two biggest slam dunk picks you can count on are Jeanty to the Raiders and Colston Loveland out of Michigan to the Harbaugh Chargers.


Runner up Jihaad Campbell, LB to the Bucs

I thought Harbaugh was a big fan of the DT Grant. You think he won't take him?

Loveland isn't making it that far IMO.

A lot of reports saying the league sees both TEs as top 10 prospects. I think Warren goes very early and then Loveland's floor is the Colts at 14.

I think far and away the biggest need for the Chargers is TE and Harbaugh can't pass on a Michigan guy. He needs a bail out guy for Justin Herbert


edit: unless the Colts take him which yeah that could definitely happen


edit 2: and they just started having the same conversation on ESPN lol

I dunno.... Jeanty looked so small - and was busted up and arm tackled so often when Boise State played Penn State - which has NFL sized players... it made me look at him completely differently. I dunno that he isn't a scat back.

There are plenty of backs who look small in the NFL.

Ask Lions fans

There's going to be Cornerback Burnt Ends served up every Sunday if the Chiefs take him.

https://external-content.duckduckgo....003fa2166af5d9

The Broncos can't afford to NOT take Loveland if he manages to make it to them. Agree 100% on the other two predictions.

Have you ever had jalapeño plant splinter into your pee hole? That shit hurts.

Chiefs aggressively move up to pick #9 to draft Jeanty.

Ersery- the tackle from Minnesota. It’s a bit of a reach as he’s projected as a second/third round pick but he will be our starting right tackle in 2026. He’s a local kid, played at Ruskin high school and started for three years at Minnesota so he’s got experience.

Ersery. He seems to be climbing up draft boards the last few weeks. KC needs OL help.

I think if teams feel Simmons is recovered he will go very early. Maybe Banks falls within KC range.

Simmons

There's a Luther's BBQ at 129th & State Line that opened in about 2018 I think. I keep forgetting it's there, but I need to try it sometime. Edit:I think this place may have closed already. KC is a tough place to make it in the BBQ business.

There was also a Luther's BBQ in KC back in the 90's or so, but I think it closed. I don't know if there's any connection between that one and the current one.

This scares me about Burden…

Luther Burden: “You wish you had bigger and faster for outside but he’s a good enough player to do it,” one scout said. “He’s probably most effective in the slot. There’s some really strong comparisons to Deebo Samuel. He’s got great hands. Really natural after the catch. Has vision, elusiveness, strength, toughness. One of the worst practice players you’ve ever seen but his talent on the field makes you take notice. There’s times when his routes are lacking but it’s more like effort and discipline (than) talent.”

“He’s a 5-star, they kiss his ass for three years just to keep him there,” another scout said. “The girlfriend is his manager. The mom is a problem. But he’s a good player on Saturday and he’s very ordinary Monday through Friday. That’s an area he’s really going to have to improve. I thought his tape from 2023 was better than 2024 but I also thought the quarterback play was a little better a year ago. If you take him you’re gritting your teeth that you’re going to have a (Sunday) player who isn’t going to add much to your team the other five, six days of the week. He’s a shaky first-rounder and a little more of a second-rounder because you can’t get anybody to really sign off on a clean bill of health as far as the personality and the intangibles.”

Already pulling the George Pickens attitude nonsense the made us end up with Skyy Moore.


By the way, Skyy is a great practice player!!! If that's what you're looking for. I like guys who routinely burn defenses and can catch.



"not a practice guy" when MU was using him like a gadget. It's weird how playing for Super Bowls can change a guy's practice work ethic

Ehh... not worried if his mom is a problem. We've dealt with Philip Gaines' mom on here before. We'll be ready.

The thing is Pickens just isn't what people think he is, man. And his attitude is probably the thing holding him back from being elite.

Pickens attitude isn't what made us end up with Skyy Moore. Getting antsy and feeling the pressure to draft a WR in that spot at all is what made us end up with Skyy Moore.

Lamar Jackson's mom is his agent. Who cares? Certainly fans shouldn't.

Totally shitting on a guy because of that is silly. You know who everyone loves that I'd rather shit on? How about Josh Conely who is fat and absolutely can NOT run block.


But people want us to trade UP for that guy lmao

You are 1000% correct on this analysis! It's poker time boys! Don't believe what you hear and trust what you don't see especially with Veach!

Yea, you've paid zero attention to Pickens career if you think that his attitude/character "nonsense" isn't real.

Good god.

Uh I know it's real. Would you rather have Pickens and his attitude or Skyy and his not being able to play football?

I wasn't saying his attitude isn't real, I'm saying who the **** cares

If we trade up it’s for Banks, Ersery if we stay at 31

Your criticism of Conerly is that he's "fat" and can't run block (not true just not a huge strength)?

Yours are just as shallow, except these are scouts that are actually in the know. It's ok to like Burden, even love him as a prospect, and acknowledge there must be a reason he's not a lock top 10 pick.

You come off as taking all of this way too personal lol.

Reading tone in text says more about you than me. Maybe you're just reading it that way since that's how you post here every day?


I'm not the first person to say Conerly is a one trick pony by the way

This team's most dire long term need is a LT that can protect Mahomes. Conerly is as good as any that we've had available, and probably as good as any that will be available in the future. If he were a great run blocker on top of being an above average in pass pro, he'd be a top 20 pick.

I was more talking about you taking the Burden stuff personal because you're a fan. I really like Burden, but there's a reason he's not a lock top 15 pick. Why is it so hard to acknowledge that a lot of these guys have character and/or maturity concerns?

You probably would've handwaved concerns about Jermaine Burton last year. How did that turn out for the Bengals?

Burden’s performance in 2024 was about his QB getting hurt and sucking ass all year. Easily left 300 yards and 4+ TDs, at least, because his QBs couldn’t get him the ball.

He was viewed as a top 15 pick entering this season. None of the stuff that had him there changed. If you’re excited about the prospect of drafting Simmons because he’s a talent that normally would not be available to the Chiefs, the same should apply to Burden, really. Except Burden just has some bland character concerns, not an injury that has ruined the career of every other guy who has had it.

He’s a diva WR, but most of the best ones are. Some scouts who don’t like the NIL landscape bad-mouthing him doesn’t go too far with me.

Biggest concern for me with Burden would be if you feel comfortable that he and Rice can be used simultaneously.

Dude, you're completely misunderstanding my point. I would 100% be good with Burden, and there's a damn good chance he'd be my BPA too.

But that doesn't mean he doesn't have character concerns.

My point was more about Pickens though. That is 100% not the guy to point to to say this stuff is often overblown LMAO

Well okay but MY point is character concerns do not concern me nearly as much as talent concerns or health concerns.

I do not care that Burden hired his girlfriend to be his manager or that he didn't practice hard when he realized his QB sucks.

I do have concerns that Simmons' knee is ****ed, I do have concerns that Conerly can't run block.

I know tackle is an issue but this doesn't feel like the draft to force it. The guys we'd trade up for are not answers, they're lottery tickets. Might as well take lottery tickets in later rounds. But I don't think you get Luther Burden unless you take him at 31 and he might not even fall that far.

Owned and operated by a small town tent evangelist.

If Veach can’t find a trade partner to move up in the 1st round he’s 100% trading out of it.

That would be a first


or I guess lack of one

Luther Burden is the Brian Thomas Jr of this draft IMO. Just unfathomable that he falls as far as he does bc he has no business doing so. And he’s going to be good.

If the Chiefs get stuck again with their top tackles and DL gone you sprint to the podium to take that kid.

And he’d fit great here regardless of Rice. Kelce legs are done and we have no other WR on this roster worth a shit that’s bigger than 175 lbs.

Kid has long speed. He can be ****ing great here.

Kelce nearing the end is something I also thought of and forgot to list among my reasons so thank you for bringing that up.


edit: I had a gigantic draft crush on Brian Thomas Jr, this feels like it would go a long way to easing that loss haha

You think run blocking is just power drive blocking?

The kid is great at reaching and sealing in our zone blocking style. He's also good at getting to second-level targets.

I'll defer to Mike Tice's opinion on this kid instead.

There's not a tackle in this class that's truly good at power blocking.