We have a ton of money in the OL but the player's suck. Veach has failed in this area and now we have hardly any money and still for the 7th year in a row need an LT.

That sucks and there is no good answer.

I'd probably pay for Cam Robinson.

Problem is he sucks. Pretty badly. There's a reason the Jaguars gave up on him and he proved them right with that disastrous pair of games to close out the Vikings season.

52 pressures allowed for an 8.2% pressure given up rate.

Next year is going to a transition year. Veach is going to have to rebuild the offensive line over the next few years. One offseason is not going to do it.

LT - need a new one

LG - Thuney is 33

C - fine

RG - Smith is gone

RT - Taylor sucks and can be cut after 2026 with a reasonable cap hit

Veach let Brown walk with nothing lined up, so it is possible they are allowed to test the market.

The only way it's not shocking is cap space. The Ravens don't have much. They can clear space to do it though.

The Rams absolutely have the space.

I'm sure both prefer to get deals done, teams always prefer that to a tag. I'm sure they'll try to avoid that.

Teams don't tend to let left tackles hit the market. They are hard to get and that well has been pretty dry for a while. The last couple of drafts have helped a bit but it's still difficult to get a good one.

He tagged Brown the first year he was a FA.

Veach let Brown walk because his agent was a ****ing reerun that failed to do any due diligence and had no feel for what his actual market was. Veach had by far the best offer on the table for him and he kept scoffing and asking for more. At a certain point you just throw your hands up and pivot.

Oh FFS people. Anyone saying shit about OBJ is a goddamn fool. The only thing worse than Wanya or Kingsley or Humphries is getting the same result from a loser you paid big money to.

OBJ sucks and other teams know it. He would’ve have gotten his ass whipped by Nolan Smith

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Best part of Hard Knocks, easily, was the strip-sack by <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Steelers?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Steelers</a> OLB Nick Herbig, and the reaction from Mike Tomlin.<br><br>They talked about Herbig needing to beat Orlando Brown Jr. all week. In a big spot, Herbig did. And Tomlin loved it. <a href="https://t.co/4NUyqMMLxh">pic.twitter.com/4NUyqMMLxh</a></p>&mdash; Josh Carney (@ByJoshCarney) <a href="https://twitter.com/ByJoshCarney/status/1864348426680279197?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 4, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

The Chiefs are currently paying 3 players on the OL.

Joe Thuney - excellent and worth the money. Got exposed and worked last night (there's a reason he is not a LT and it showed in the way he got dominated by a long DE).

Creed Humphrey - excellent and worth the money. Best C in football.

Jawan Taylor - had some struggles last night but was good in pass protection during the Super Bowl run last year and in the run to the Super Bowl this year.

The other two spots have been cheap bandaids.

There's space between "Veach sucks" and "dang it, that didn't quite work out." Which is where we should all be living.

I have a hard time accepting "Veach failed" when the approach since Fisher went down has been to take swing after swing.

He traded a 1st for an established, younger vet and then tried to sign him long-term. Didn't work for the player, he moved on, and honestly it was for the best. (That was also an atrocious T draft, so the 1st they shipped out for him can't be squabbled over too much, especially considering the Chiefs got a pick back that was used to take a 4-year starter in Nick Bolton).

When that T walked, the Chiefs pivoted to replacing him by giving that money to the best available pass-blocking T on the market. He hasn't performed to expectations, primarily in the penalties area. Getting targeted on national TV by Cris Collinsworth put a target on his back that he hasn't shaken.

How was that an atrocious T draft when Darrisaw was taken at 23 and is a top 5-10 LT when healthy?

When healthy? That's one hell of a qualifier. Kind of disingenuous actually.

Honestly, I don't want to hear shit about the salary cap when discussing the left tackle situation. We're well past that point, we've tried to do it the right way, it's time to just bite the bullet and do what needs to be done. The Eagles managed to put a freaking dream team around Hurts after making him the highest player in the NFL, the Chiefs can kick some damn money down the road and sign a freaking NFL caliber left tackle. It's not as hard as some of you like to make it out to be.

I'm pretty sick of watching them humiliate themselves on the biggest stage while wasting the best QB on the planet by having to make him a damn game manager. Enough is enough with this shit. If they don't go balls deep on someone this offseason, I'll be utterly shocked. That was a devastating performance for this franchise and it's the SECOND GODDAMN TIME this has happened. I hope Clark steps in and tells them to never, EVER let it happen again, no matter what the cost.

He’s been healthy more often than not, this year was his first serious injury that kept him out much of the season. I’d take him at LT in a heartbeat.

Clark is the primary culprit as to why they don’t manipulate the cap more. As far as NFL owners are concerned he’s a cheap ass.

Look at the 6 "OTs" taken after Darrisaw. None has worked out as a T in the pros. 1/2 haven't even worked as Gs. That's what I'm referencing.

In hindsight, would it have been cool to go get Darrisaw? Yeah. And crow advocated hard for that.

I don't think it makes sense to assume the Chiefs WEREN'T checking around to see how much they could move up. We've seen them move up for their guys when they can.

Is Spencer Brown one of those 6? Because he’s one of the best RTs in the league now and I feel like he could play LT in a pinch if Buffalo didn’t have Dawkins around.

No the **** he can’t. Switching to play LT from RT is extremely difficult. Did I mention that Spencer Brown got his ass kicked by Mike ****ing Danna 3 weeks ago?

God you people are just so ****ing dumb. But of course you don’t post most of the year unless the Chiefs lose.

Bc that’s what type of poster you are.

I have definitely wondered about that, hopefully having his franchise get humiliated for the second time on the grandest stage will loosen his pockets a little.

No, he's not. There were 6 T taken in round 2:
Teven Jenkins
Liam Eichenberg
Walker Little
Jackson Carman
Sam Cosmi
Dillon Radunz

Jalen Mayfield was also taken before Spencer Brown.

Brown was pretty rough early on. Didn't really become a standout until Brady took over and they became a much more run-focused team. I don't see a LT there.

Do not draft a LT with any of our first three picks. Yes you can get a talent, but the success rate is so slim, just go in on a position you are more gauranteed with.

maybe swing at a T prospect with a fourth, if it works amazing, if not who tf cares.

that leaves two options, FA or trade.
FA: Jackson? Robinson? Stanley?
Trade: it's going to take 1 first, maybe more

LT is the achilles heel of these Superbowl runs, every effort/expense must be taken by the Chiefs, Clark Hunt, Veach, Andy, to figure it out the best they possibly can this offseason. They really need a super HIGH IQ answer to this issue, twice we've absolutely roached in the Superbowl because we failed to bring pass protection.

Also, we don't just need to acquire a way above average starter at LT, we need to acquire quality depth in case of injury to avoid the Buccaneer Superbowl scenario again.

Trade for who exactly?

And if Jackson, Robinson, or Stanley either are extended or tagged or sign elsewhere? You still do not draft a LT after the shit show we just saw?

The process of drafting a LT is fine, it’s been the execution that’s the issue. The FO needs to do their damn job.

This is what i mean, who can you trade for? Slater is a FA from 2026 but no way would LAC fix our biggest hole.

Go all in on FA. Just fix the issue. We do not need a top 5 LT, we just need a good, solid LT who can offer Mahomes 3 seconds of freedom. If we then hit on a LT in the fourth round, trade the FA and move on with some more rookies.

Trade for?

The only guy I could fathom being on the market is Braxton Jones from Chicago. I wouldn't hate it but I wouldn't love it either and I wouldn't be giving up a 1st for him.

There’s no guarantee that any of the names currently thrown around even come here. Stanley and/or Jackson could be tagged/extended in their current cities or sign elsewhere with a team with more money available. Cam Robinson probably isn’t much of an upgrade at all but he’ll still get a decent contract somewhere.

Yes, FA could be an option. But it’s just as possible we strike out there and have no choice but the draft.

It’s the draft, we’re only fixing this problem through the draft, you know it, I know it, the league knows it, Veach has to nail that pick and Andy and Clark need to have the trust to give the necessary resources to do it. If you could give a Patrick Mahomes package for an LT with an additional second or third to get an LT that Veach and Reid feels is great would you do it? I would in a heartbeat. Sorry Karlaftis, sorry Bolton, sorry Trey, there are going to have to be losses to make the gains necessary to protect QB1.

Last time we were in this situation we traded for a LT. Yeah he wasn't the best but he won a SB here.

Well see, but instead of going by rentals at one of the most important positions on every team, we need to get a five year player.

Well the only other option is pulling a Texans and trading out the ass for a quality starter from a tanking team. And that too has risks — you’re really dipping into the resource well at a time when we need draft picks and cash to replace aging players

we’ll like have to give up 2 1s and our 2 to move up and get a premium tackle, or trade for one that happens to be available. You have to decide if that’s worth it to get a real LT, but we’re def gonna need an upgrade at RT as well. Taylor isn’t him.

if we can add a LT and RB with (mostly) the same defense I’ll feel very good. We’ll see how Veach plays this offseason. I imagine he’s as aggressive as possible. Unfortunately RT will have to wait until next offseason. I don’t think we should re-sign Smith but I’m curious to see if he’ll have a bounce back season next to a RT that isnt Taylor.

Clark is unlikely to do a damn thing. He's the reason things are the way they are. Look at cash spending Philly compared to the chiefs: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cash/_/year/2025/sort/cash_total

Nearly $60m difference, and it shows. Not saying that approach always works, & the Browns are exhibit A for that. But when you pair a superior GM like Roseman with an owner with open pockets & a team using modern accounting practices it's gonna be hard for conservative owners like Clark to keep up.

Good article on modern accounting practices: https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/longformarticle/understanding-the-cleveland-browns-spending-philosophy-why-it-is-sustainable--216398108/

I dont even think its a personnel issue as much as i think its an Andy Heck issue.


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This garbage right here is no longer an excuse.

If either Jackson or Stanley are available, and one of them doesn't end up a Chief, then this organization is failing Mahomes. End of conversation.

You pay whatever the **** you need to pay to get one of them, that's really all there is to it.

1. Is everyone just giving up on Kingsley being able to make a significant jump before next season? He has the physical attributes -- is there a concern that he doesn't have the mental ability to play the position? Left tackles are rarely good as rookies -- particularly those picked outside of the first round. What's Kingsley's current ceiling projection?

2. The Jets appear to be having a fire sale. Any tackles there in whom we would be interested?

This is gonna not sound great but I wouldn't expect this...

The Chiefs aren't exactly a team that goes above and beyond to spend a ton of cash to get around the cap. It's one of the reason's every time we go to the SB we get to hear about how the other team is more talented. We're facing teams that are way more willing to use void years and big time cash to circumvent the cap.

Let's be honest here, we're just ****ed at the LT position.

Orlando Brown Jr. isn't all that, and I while I'm glad we didn't just give him his bag, I would have paid him what the Bengals did. But that is all in the rearview mirror.

OK Reasons we are ****ed.

1. There are zero Good FA options. I mean at this point you are praying for Ronnie Staley and frankly I think you would end up over paying him, and you still have availability issues.

2. I don't see many guys you can even trade for. My initial thoughts were that the 49ers are a hot mess, so maybe you could get Trent Williams or a couple years, but the dude is 37 and by the looks of things he's not a tradable asset in 2025, but that is the type of trade you would be looking for.

3. The draft is really our only option, but thee guys are all projects IMO, which lends me to think we are closers to drafting another Kingsley type of LT, which isn't what we really need. Again, this is why I would have been all in on trading whatever it took to grab Joe Alt but that dude went 5th overall so its not like it was ever in the realm of possibility. I don't think we really have what it takes to trade up and grab one of the top three LTs in the draft.

Didn't we lose our cap guy? Anyway I think it has been shown Hunt and Veach are also competitive pricks and won't stand still and do nothing. Veach tried to find a LT and made trades during the season to shore up positions. They aren't going to stand pat.

Yep, I'm sick of hearing how we can't afford to keep all our guys while the Eagles and Ravens manage to build freaking dream teams around their QBs while Mahomes runs for his goddamn life because we're playing a guard at left tackle in the goddamn Super Bowl.

Enough is enough with the penny pinching bullshit. We are not light years ahead of the rest of the league anymore, and that should be obvious to everyone. Hopefully, this will be the wake up call they need. Mahomes is amazing, but the league has changed in a big way.

We need a dynmaic RB and a good LT, along with a refreshing of our scheme, or this team is going to fade quickly.

The cap isn't the problem, it's the cash. For example in just pure cash spending I believe the Eagles team on the field last night had 60 million more allocated dollars than the Chiefs did.

During basically all of Lamar's helm they had off and on years for spending, the Chiefs very obviously have a budget for spending. And yes I'm pretty sure they feel like because of the money Mahomes makes it's up to him to cover some of those warts because they are paying him like he's multiple players.

That excuse is out the window now, the Ravens and Eagles are paying their QBs just as much and still manage to put absolutely loaded rosters around them. They can keep being cheap if they want, they will stop going to Super Bowls if they decide to be.

They don't change their approach, they'll keep falling behind even more. Denver and LA are going to be out there spending like freaking lunatics. If we don't watch ourselves, we are going to be battling to maintain our own division again very quickly.

Trading to Pick 16 with the Arizona Cardinals is my sweet spot. Last year, that same pick was my sweet spot and it turned out to be pretty accurate.

The Cardinals have a GM that will trade down and I think that's about where you can get a guy like Conerly. I think Simmons and Banks go before that. I don't know if Campbell is a LT in the league. We'll see if his arms end up long enough but legit concerns they are around 32".

Trade value guesses would be 31, 95, and 2026 1st for 16 and 153 or 31, 63, and 2026 2nd for 16. I might be more inclined for the latter given we have pick #66 this year.

The Rams have plenty of cash available.

Hard to see them NOT keeping Alaric Jackson, but who knows?

I don't know what to tell you, some owners care more about winning than profits, some care more about profits, some try to split the difference.

I mean shit Lurie is worth 5.3 billion while the Chiefs are listed as being owned by the Hunt family which is worth 24.3 billion.

Also apparently last year the Eagles made 598 million dollars in revenue while the Chiefs are at 540.

I don't think we're being cheap, we're just spending our money in different spots or more concentrated. We have a $35m DT, a $27m RT, a $26m LG, a $20m TE, and a $10m OC next year. They have their money spread to $17.5m WR, $17.5m RT, $16m DE, $15m LT, $14m CB, and $11m TE. They have a TON of void money on their books. It won't all hit for a couple of years but when it does it's going to be a bunch at once and it's going to hurt them some. If it's being cheap not to do that so much, I'm not sure I agree with it. Plus, we're coming to a point in the near future where our distribution will change substantially, the next two seasons probably.

Everyone wants to blame the line and specifically LT, but God damn Andy makes it really hard on those guys when the defense can just run at the QB as fast as they can.

We needed to run the ball more. Looking at the snap counts is eye opening.

Kareem Hunt thoroughly put himself in the position to be the starting RB. He got 11 snaps. Perine had 22 and Pacheco had 23.

We had 7 ****ing runs all game and no I'm not counting any of Pats.

You can go ahead and say that they "stopped" the run game, but that's completely false.

Our drives go like this:

1st: 4 passes
2nd: 2 passes, 1 run
3rd: 3 passes
4th: 3 passes
5th: 2 runs 1 pass
6th: 1 pass
7th: 3 passes
8th: 1 run 4 passes

Games over at this point, so I won't continue with it, but the Eagles didn't stop the run game. The Chiefs just didn't try to ****ing run it. This team cannot do a ****ing thing when they become one dimensional.

Eagles aren't paying Hurts more than $50 million against the cap until like 2029. Mahomes is making in excess of $65 million each of the next 3 years, Hurts is making $21 million, $31 million, and $41 million against the cap those years. Howie Roseman is running circles around Veach. Also, look at how much their superior OL is getting paid compared to our OL.

95% of people here don't know the difference. Your argument falls on deaf ears.

Little slow on the uptake here... what is the pro and con of doing it their way with void money on the books vs..?

It's not so much that Roseman is running circles around Veach, it's just clear he has much more financial flexibility. This whole concern about adding void years and kicking the can is understandable, but after what we just witnessed it should be quite obvious to this organization that they're going to have to bite the bullet and push some money out to land a good LT and I would argue a dynamic RB as well.

And no, I don't mean Humphries or Armstead or some other half dead broke dick who's about to start taking Geritol. If the Rams don't tag Jackson, and all indications are they won't, you do whatever the living hell you need to do to get him to sign here. I don't care how much money you have to push off, you just ****ing do it. Same with Stanley if he happens to get to the market. I don't care what you have to move around, one of those guys is a Chief or you're not that serious about winning more titles.

Basically, we've been counting on Pat, Andy and Spags to essentially fill the gaps of our team being pretty much outmanned in every big game we play. Those days need to come to an end, and we need to get some more top flight talent in here. It's really that simple.

I would not say Creed is worth the money.

In fact, I would argue that paying a center market setting money when you’re up against the cap and need to replace the tackles is pretty stupid.

You can get a replacement center in the middle rounds that usually at least turns out serviceable.

Would have preferred saving money on Creed and putting it towards the tackles.

It's what we've done in the past several times. Moved on.

I don't know why this is different.

Yep, void years are the cheat code to really load up the roster. If KC refuses to use the aggressive void year approach like other teams, the Chiefs will always be at a disadvantage in roster construction.

Id guess the plan is to have Creed stabilize the middle. Now that guards are getting paid like tackles you might as well pay the tackles and let guards fill in as needed. If you can shore up both spots and have a good center your line should be fairly stable.

No OL is ever “set” long term. It’s just not possible to do that.

You have to have a couple spots solidified and the others get filled in with short term vets or draft picks.

I think you have it right. Going to have to likely get the tackles “set” with Creed then go cheap on guards.

Moro Ojomo (26.3%) and Jalyx Hunt (23.5%) had the highest pass rush win rates in the Super Bowl.


Good ****ing God.

25 and 23 snaps respectively.

Normally a team that has almost no money invested in it's secondary..minimal at LB and honestly Chris Jones is the only guy on the DL making major bank...you'd think wow I bet this offense is stacked but then we have...

A WR room that makes small potatoes, Kelce gets paid but even adding him it's still not a huge amount..RB room is cheap..

So we literally live in a world where all of the Chiefs money is Mahomes, Chris Jones, Joe Thuney, Creed Humphrey and Jawaan Taylor? And just compare that to the team they played last night...

The Eagles have Hurts making good money, not Mahomes money, Barkley is well paid, Both their OT's are highly paid, Dickerson makes bank, and both of their WR's have big deals. Josh Sweat and Darius Slay making bank too..

The Chiefs just played a team that drafts well and is also wiling to use cash/void to stack it's roster. We're playing teams like this with 1 arm tied behind our backs because they have a card we don't.

Right. I didn't mean for ten years or anything. But likely you can stabilize for 2-3 years at a time. Hopefully hitting on draft picks, signing one or two long term then letting some walk. Its a constant churn but I think thats the goal long term. To me it makes sense.

So now Clark is cheap? JFC

Grasping at straws. We came out flat as **** and just got beat on the Oline. But people need a bigger reason that that. WE NEED FULL SYSTEM ACCOUNTABILITY!!!

Andy- game plan
Nagy-Not Beienemy
The Clarks Cheap
The Clarks 10/10 daughter- Distraction
Chiefs planet- did not get 10k posts to get Hopkins a year earlier
Hopkins-dropped shit
Veach cant draft tackles

I mean they are a lot less willing to play some of the void year game than some of these other teams are.

They haven't had to at this point. Maybe things will change after this game but they've been in the conference championship every year since Mahomes became the starter. They're doing A LOT right.

They are, but that game is why we end up being told the team the Chiefs are facing is more talented.

The Chiefs aren't a shitty drafting team and have guys on rookie deals all over the field, so there can be only 1 other reason.

I think Reid and Veach fooled themselves. They so wanted to magically find a great drafted young player at LT that they forget the prospect was a PROJECT and force fed him into the lineup with no safety net.

I think it takes too much capital to trade into the Top 5 or Top 10 to grab a college guy that you "hope" will turn out to be a really good player. He might also be a bust. If you're going down the trade path, it might need to be for a proven veteran. And that's difficult to do because teams are gonna want to hang on to their proven Left Tackles if they have them.

I mean, he’s been one of the worst rated owners in recent years for things like facilities and training staff and he’s not towards the top when it comes to cash over cap spending. He’s not Mike Brown cheap but he also isn’t close to fully leveraging the cap with cash spending in the way someone like Lurie, Haslam, etc.

They could try to be less reactionary and not constantly wait for wake up calls like the TB and Philly SBs to enact change. Good leadership foresees impending issues as much as possible before the bottom drops out and they have to react with wholesale changes.

What? This is just dumb. Clark's job is not to manage the cap. That's on Veach. And the team didn't lose because of the facilities and training staff. Veach has to draft better. That's how you sustain dynasties.

Pats were horrible at drafting after their 2007 season. It wasn't until they drafted Gronk, McCourty, and a few other players that they got back to the super bowl.

Compared to Howie, Veach has not drafted well. Part of it is picking late in the draft. Part of it is scouting.

They turned one of the worst run defenses in the league over the 10 years into a top 5 unit two years in a row. People are way overreacting. As usual.

Your post doesn't understand the difference in cap and cash, Clark 100% has say over the amount of cash the team can spend.

Look at the Eagles roster, look at ours. It's pretty obvious that Lurie's cash budget for players is higher than Clarks.

They turned that around spending very few dollars, I give the front office a lot of credit for getting what they've gotten under their restraints.

Going into a season with Kingsley and Wanya as your two left tackles… what could go wrong.

It doesn't matter how they did it. They did it. There's zero reason at this point to just throw up our hands and say they are ****ed.

That's the most frustrating part. That was an easily identifiable issue even to the peons of the internet and it just wasn't addressed until the issue became critical.

I don't think ****ed is the proper term, they just aren't going to go the extra mile.

So we'll always be relying more on guys trying to turn it around or young players than the teams that are throwing up big time void years.

For example the Eagles drafted CB's, the Chiefs drafted CB's...we got rid of Sneed and they kept Slay.

O-Lines, and depth within O-Lines, matters. We have neither.

Exactly! And the Goof Troop contingency, led by a certain mod, called everyone "Chicken Littles" who dared to make that point. In any case, we saw what could and did go wrong. It was a problem going into the season, and no amount of duct tape had any chance of fixing it.

Obviously we should have went to the LT tree where they grow plentiful.