Because rich people keep getting richer.

Do you even America, bro??

Well Yes, Yes I do. Still gives me cause for pause.............

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chiefs?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chiefs</a> Andy Reid said he was a bit surprised not seeing Chris Jones show up for camp for the first time in his career.</p>&mdash; PJ Green (@PJGreenTV) <a href="https://twitter.com/PJGreenTV/status/1683139981273882624?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 23, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That’s Andy for “pretty pissed off”

I'm not convinced either.

I'm in the school that's it better to get rid of players too soon than too late.

The problem is that Jones IS such a huge part of the defense.

Could he live up to another big contract. Absolutely. But over paying or having one really big contract go south can really set you back.

I'm glad I'm not VB.

What leverage does he have? He's under contract, and it's already cost him 100k to miss two days. 50k per day adds up quickly. Additionally, if he misses a preseason game, he will be fined 1/18th of his salary per preseason game. NFL teams are no longer allowed to forgive these fines.

This won't last long. He has little to no leverage.

I'd permit him to seek a trade if he is unwilling to lower his demands or play under the current contract.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Message from Chris Jones: <a href="https://t.co/SE4PTuC2Zu">pic.twitter.com/SE4PTuC2Zu</a></p>&mdash; Zack Eisen (@zackeisen21) <a href="https://twitter.com/zackeisen21/status/1682883866577760257?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 22, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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:facepalm:

Do any of the trainers wear DD+ size braw’s ?

I wondered how much Frank not being here is effecting things as well

The chiefs can’t financially tag him next year, so his contract numbers will start with that.

It’s too late to trade him

The chiefs ain’t got much leverage here

While I voted Chiefs will pay the man, give me some trade ideas some have.

Thoughts on a Washington deal that send Jones to them and a package of Jonathan Allen, Chase Young and draft compensation to us?

It won’t come to any of this but I think the team has the
leverage.

Jones is under contract to make around $20MM this season. He sits out and he doesn’t get credit for the year and KC still owns his right. Jones really has little leverage.

He can always show up week 11 and get credit. That could also backfire if we still look good those first 10 weeks without him.

Who do the chiefs plan to play on the dl if he sits out?

They can’t financially tag him next year so they’d have to let him walk

He has no leverage. In fact if he does show up he will probably only give half ass bevuae his money is nothing in 2024. He would be smart to sign and not be a dick.

Losing 10 weeks of game checks ($12MM+) then gets tagged and obviously can’t sit out 10 weeks again so he has no leverage then either.

Same strategy as if he got hurt I guess.

And the idea they can’t tag him next year is asinine at this point. Sure they could if it came to it. It’s not ideal by any means.

He'd likely owe the Chiefs money if he sat out until week 11. He'd be out 13/18 of 19.5 million salary for missing preseason+10 regular season games. Then he misses 50k per day in training camp, which I'm not sure carries into the regular season or not.

It would make Laveon Bell's decision look great.

Players have evolved beyond holding out. He'd probably hold in and claim a back injury or something of the sort if it came down to that level of acrimony in the negotiations.

This is what I hate about the NFL. Players holding out while under contract. You signed a ****ing contract dude and are obligated to play as per the agreement of that contract. It's not as if the guy is a RB looking for his first big deal. He already got that first big deal money. At this point it's all about greed and maximizing profit of what you think you are worth. Andy didn't look too pleased today when asked the question of CJ's holdout.

While I get the Chiefs probably don't want to tag him next year for financial reasons, he doesn't want to wait until next year to get a contract. He will lose massive value, especially if he starts showing injury/decline. 30 is a lot older than 29 in the NFL. He will never make up the value in the open market next year.

I get your point and agree but I think Chris has the leverage here and we all know it is a business and when you are a star and can back it up especially when you are young, contracts don't mean squat and the great young players know this.:shrug: Bellichek wouldn't give Seymour the big contract.

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Veach isn't going to fold on this one. Jones is too old to pull a Leveon Bell and sit out games all year, so I see Jones playing out his final year, and quite possibly we see some Honey Vadger-esque business decisions get made on Jones' part, and to a degree, rightfully so.

It's hard to get you huge money from another team if you're injured and the big 3-0 is hovering around your name while you're asking for the amount of money that he is. Maybe he misses a few games and refuses to play though being nicked up. He can't very well just back it down on the field though, or nobody will pony up his money.

I think that's why you won't see an 11 week holdout either, because when the Kansas City Chiefs are still going to be the 1 seed without him, his leverage swirls right down the bowl.

By the end of this season Jones will have 3 rings, just won back to back titles, and will be free to pursue max money and losing games for what remains of his career with another team.

I think he goes all out, wins another ring, and moves on next season.

That's what I don't get. Why wouldn't he accept say $25 million per which is far more than what Kelce makes? You retire as a Chief, win a few more rings and are still set for life.
This is nothing but greed from either the player or the agent or both.

As we learned from the Tyreek and OBJ sagas, Chiefs don't put up with this shit of a player holding the team hostage for monetary reasons.
Veach will do what's right for the team.

That's the price you pay for not guaranteeing contracts. If the team can bail on the contract and not pay the final years, the player has that right too. It's not like baseball where the team is on the hook even if they cut him.

Meanwhile, Florio is stirring up more shit at PFT. Not going to post the link... :shake: He seems to enjoy sowing the seeds of dissention. (Mahomes' & Kelce's salary before this.) The self-anointed arbiter of "fair" salary. F that guy. :#

I said months ago he will want Donald money and we can't do that. He's as good as gone.

Greedy as shit.

But having a good DT is so much more crucial than a single good WR, as we have already seen that we can do without him, but with these new rules it favors offense, and it's starting to become who can rocket the ball downfield the quickest. The best way to combat this is by having a great defensive line.

If burrow, Allen and Rogers are allowed to just sit in the pocket all day and wait for a receiver to get open, then the playoffs will be ugly.

Because he isn't a tight end nor is he Kelce, there is nothing wrong with a player wanting to get paid at their actual value. And it's pretty hard to accept 25 per year when other teams are waiting to throw a much better contract at you, and being the best DT, you know it's gonna happen like that. Honestly, what would you do in that situation? and no you wouldn't look at it like a fan would if you were.

I like coffee

It won't be ugly. It might be 45-42. But it won't be ugly. And I'm thinking we will be the team with 45.

IDK if it's been mentioned in this thread but I saw a comparison to Seymour's departure from NE. Somewhat interesting comparison to me, but Seymour was just a big cog in a well-oiled machine. Jones IS the machine for KC D. That's the difference. KC won't absorb CJ's loss like NE could and did.

I think they get it done and relatively soon. I think we end up having to pay closer to what Jones wants than what they want, which sucks a little, but he's worth it so it's hard to complain.

If they pay him what he wants and he continues to be an elite player, what’s the problem?

Deserves to paid! He’s the Mahomes of the defense.

He got paid and is still getting paid 20 mil for this season and nobody is Mahomes on anything. There is only one.

83%? You people live in a fantasy world. Do you wanna keep Bolton and Sneed? Then let Jones and his insane amount of money walk.

I wonder how much leverage the Chiefs lost when they weren’t able to draft Mazi Smith? If there was truth to those rumors, you’d think it would hint at the thought process of the front office.

You cant just be a BILLIONAIRE to play in the NFL ownership. You need at least $10 billion to play. Hunt had to put $450 million in escrow to pay Pat's contract. That money isnt earning his shit. He gets zero interest. There are yearly fees for escrow. Even BILLIONAIRE's taking $450 million out of their investment portofolio and not earn a penny off the money is going to be noticed.

Let's look at some figures for 2024:

Chiefs currently have projected 35.66 M in cap next season
Jones Tag would be roughly 33.6M on the cap next year.

Obvious cap releases:
MVS (Save 12M, leaving 2M in dead money)

Extension Possibilities:
Thuney (Due 22.6M)
Reid (Due 14.25M)

Restructuring Mahomes (Saves a varying amount, for this thought experiment let's say it lowers his cap hit from 46.7M to 38M, saving 8.7M)

If we tagged Jones next year (if no deal worked out), we're looking at somewhere between 14M (no extensions or restructures) to north of 30M of cap space (restructure Mahomes and extensions)

I think we have enough wiggle room where if he plays this year and wants absurd money still, we can do a tag and trade next year.

I think Chris Jones is an amazing player, but at 30M a year on the defensive side of the ball, I think the argument can be made that the money can be used in the aggregate across the entire defense or team, plus, that money long term could very much be used in signing younger players long term (Humphrey and Bolton specifically should be in the long term plans of this team IMO)

Not to mention for a player of Jones caliber, you're probably netting something somewhere around a 1st and a 3rd back, and can hopefully get another quality (cheap) player in the draft.

It would be painful, BUT he is not the Mahomes of the defense. NO ONE ELSE IN THE NFL IMPACTS A GAME LIKE PATRICK MAHOMES DOES. Does he lead the defense? Absolutely, but he is touchable in terms of cap. Not like Mahomes. Mahomes could want 35% of the cap and you say Yes. Jones has a number, the question is if 30M (roughly 14% of the cap this year) is viable in long term with this team.

Honestly, I hope these conversations are happening at 1 Arrowhead Dr, because if Veach does anything like trading CJ95, he'll have a plan in place to address his absence.

Meanwhile, Philly and San Fran keep paying defenders big contracts every year and things seem to work out well for them. Unless they play us in the Super Bowl with Chris Jones.

Clark didn't have to put anywhere near 450 million into escrow for Patrick's contract. You only have to put the guaranteed money into escrow and they way Patrick's contract is structured Clark only had to put 63 million into escrow.

This is what I understand too.

Also they always gave those $50K a day fines back to the player or just waived the fines once he signed. New NFLPA/NFL rules say there is no waiving of the fines. The player must pay the money.

Keep and off ball middle line backer and a slot corner over a pass rushing dt?

No I would much rather have the hall of fame pass rusher

You are wrong.

Thats right. Every year he has to put the new guaranteed money in before the new league year, but in no way was it 450M at once.

I'll doublecheck, but with the rolling guarantees, I'm pretty sure he just has to make sure all new guaranteed money is in escrow before the league year starts...

The main problem trying to trade Jones will be the sane problem the Chiefs encountered the first time.

The rest of the league knows that KC doesn't want to pay Jones what he wants. That's why there were no huge offers for him on his first extension, the league either has a team get Jones for less than he's worth, or they force KC to pay more than what they want to pay and to to hamstring our cap situation.

Make no mistake here, this won't likely be a Tyreek Hill type haul if Jones is traded, unless it's just some team desperate to make a big splash and feel a superstar DT puts them over the top and they're fine to "overpay".

The biggest win for the Chiefs on moving Chris Jones is unfortunately the cap space and the ability to retain our younger players for longer.

I don't realistically see any team trading a first round pick or multiple respectable picks and committing 30m per year to acquire Chris Jones.

Guy's good, but we will be completely fine without him.

It's RedDawg. He's a moron. Plus, there is nothing saying you can't keep all three. Release Joe Thuney next season. Release MVS next season. Restructure Justin Reed and extend Kelce. That's more than enough to keep Sneed, Bolton, and Creed.

No I'm not. Look it up yourself, jackass.

Jones isn't even close on Hall of Fame points. Take it down a notch.

This is where we disagree. DeForest Buckner got traded for the 13th pick overall a few years back, and although younger, had much less success than CJ95.

Tyreek's trade (at a position that has a larger age premium than DT) I think is a similar trade value that we can look at (maybe even a little higher)

Also, the same concept applied with Tyreek. We were either going to trade or overpay essentially (Just because we as fans didn't know, doesn't mean that other teams didn't, hell his agent was calling around)

I do agree however that with the freed up cap, and what we get in said theoretical trade, that we can make up for Jones' absence.

Yep. Distinctly remember that contract having a rolling guarantee in effect. It's constantly 3 years out IIRC.

Also has that massive number in year 6 which I'm assuming will be converted into a second signing bonus to be spread out between years 6-10 since they're only eligible to be spread out up to 5 years.

MVS aint going anywhere. Average WR(past their rookie deal) = $10 million in todays NFL. He's a cheap WR in todays market.

Creed is first up nest year for a long term contract. He will break the record for a center and be the highest paid center in the game.

Come on Tex, if this is Chris's stance you really don't have many other options. You would have ultimate authority over the trade specifics. I hated to lose Tyreek, but if Chris is asking for money that would hamper us from extensions coming for Bolton, Creed, Smith and Sneed... Well, then you have to make tough decisions.

Those players make our defense better than losing them but keeping Jones.

That's an intriguing thought on MVS. Haven't really considered that, more was just looking at how crowded our WR room is and that I think between Moore stepping up and Rice that we'll fill some roles (but will still be lacking that deep threat that MVS provides.)

I could see that going either way now that you mention it like that. I still think however, that if Veach wants to tag and trade CJ95, he will find a way.

They won’t trade him now, it’s too late to do that. Maybe next off-season.

He’s also the center piece of the defense. So yeah, they’ll miss him

MVS is a one trick pony. You release him to save the cap dollars and draft a speed receiver. You don't pay a veteran receiver 10-12 million per year that can't run a complete route tree and have questionable hands. MVS is fine for this season as we need that veteran presence in the receiver group, but next season Moore will be in his third year, Toney in his fourth, Rice will be in his second year, and you have James as the "veteran" presence.

The time to get the trade stuff down was before the draft. That’s not happening now.

He’ll be a chiefs this year. Next year maybe not but I’m guessing he will end up signing an extension here anywag

Yeah, if he wants Donald money and guarantees and I can see Veach saying no. He wont be traded this year.

I was very very concerned when we let Hill go. Mahomes proved he can make any WR better. He's the GOAT. But..... how does Mahomes lift up the defense? Maybe losing Jones will hurt a lot worse than Hill?

Besides the obvious one of losing Mahomes, I think losing Kelce or Reid will impact our team more than anything else. But, Jones is next on that list. This devolves into negative crap, we can get great draft picks next year for him. Many teams without a Mahomes will pay him Donald money.

I dunno, that’s not terrible on a vet wr these days. I’d prefer not to but we’ll see how he plays this season

I am confident that he will either be a Chief or he wont.

This is again where I think they just wait too long on these things.

They knew the # in March. If you don’t wanna get to it, fine, don’t. I’m not big on paying defenders a 3rd contract anyway, but don’t drag it out. If you aren’t willing to pay it, trade him and move on.

We have $51 mil next year

He got it wrong. If we tag him it’s the avg of the top 5 d linemen. This year it was $18-19 mil avc

That $33 mil is higher then the highest paid perso.

That’s not how negotiations work.

They knew A number in March, but it’s entirely likely that the two sides come closer together over time as the season nears and both sides are incentivized to get something done.

I would be quite surprised if the number Jones put out there in March was the number he was still set on today.

I love posts like this. :)

"You are wrong..... Buuuut I'm not going to tell you how you are wrong. You just need to understand that you are wrong."



So exactly HOW is he wrong? Because I don't think he is wrong.

I don't think Chris is "vital" to the defense moving forward. Like the defense isn't gonna crash and burn and suck if he's gone. But it will be noticeable.

The defense has some damn good talent on it man. Bolton, Sneed, McDuffie, Reid. I do believe Karlaftis is gonna break out and be a double-digit sack guy this year as well.

I like that Veach planned for this possibility with back-to-back first rd DE's and Omenihu.

Obviously I'd like to keep Chris, but if he wants Donald money and Veach trades him it wouldn't ruin us. We'd still be a top AFC team. We just saw what this franchise did last year with extra high draft picks and cash. We could do that again if it came down to it.

Again I love Chris but the Chiefs are still arguably the best team in the AFC bc of Andy and Patrick.

If 120% of the player's salary from last season is greater than the tag number they will be tagged at the higher figure for the upcoming season.

He's in the 28M ballpark this year. Hence 33.6M

Where are you seeing 51M of cap space next year?

Never mind, I see that you're pulling that from OvertheCap. I tend to rely on Spotrac for projections, because I don't see the salary cap jumping to 255M from 220M in one year, 240M seems closer to the jumps we've been seeing recently (except for the covid years decreasing obviously), but more cap room helps us even more in that situation.

But isn’t his actual 2023 salary 19.5mm?

Salary and roster bonuses, not cap hit.

The spread on things like signing or restructure bonus is not part of the formula.

Actually I think he’s right.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/nfl/news...e-tag-work-nfl

Source: Sporting News (In the Spoilers as it's a little long) (First site that I just pulled up, I'll dig it up on NFL)

The only reference that I can find is to salary cap number. I'll check on NFL, and genuinely hope that I'm wrong, but from what I remember, it's the cap number.

Best case:

They are able to extend Jones (if this happens, the team can make it work)

Next-best case:
They are not able to come to an agreement on an extension, but they do agree he will play out this year on his current deal and the team will trade him in the spring if his demands are still more than the team is comfortable with.

I'd hate to see them trying to find a trade right now for Jones. You'd be limited to a team with the cap space to make it happen, let alone what you're getting back. Maybe the Panthers or Colts or Bears. But it's awfully hard to make that deal when you don't know what range of pick you're actually getting back.

Would the Panthers do it for Derrick Brown and a 1st next year? Would the Colts do it for DeForrest Buckner and their 2nd and more? It gets dicey.