I agree with all this, especially the part of Winstead's remarkable ass, but still... the only male characters are the main villain and an uppity droid. Oh well. I'm enjoying it. They're like a bunch of Ripleys, not a bunch of Burnhams.

It's space fiction. The force can be used by someone other than Macho Alpha males. I don't see any "woke" and they all have flaws as you point out very well. Everyone should be able to enjoy this show on its merits.

Well, let’s review male characters that are associated with Hera, Ashoka, and Sabine:

1. Ezra Bridger: Missing in Action, with Thrawn

2. Kanan Jarrus: Dead

3. Anakin Skywalker: Dead

4. Captain Rex: Likely dead

5. Luke Skywalker: Busy failing at raising the next generation of Jedi

6. The Mandalorian: Busy doing Mando things

Any new male protagonist would be a forced-in, add-on to the story.

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I’m probably less hard on Obi-Wan and Fett. I seem to be able to put aside the dogshit and appreciate the good parts.

That being said Andor is almost unassailable. This isn’t that. And I think it probably is better than the other 2 but it has yet to have a scene equivalent to the Vader ObiWan fight, which was pretty well done IMO.

This has a few problems. 1. I think it needs some editing. I’m not a Nazi for pacing, but goddamn. 6 minutes in the ****ing temple turning shit? Duuuuuude.

2. Ahsoka in Clone Wars and Rebels moved fast and was upbeat. I get that this is the older version of Ahsoka, but other than her head things there aren’t a ton of similarities to the established properties. And I don’t think it’s Dawson. I think she’s pretty good. Hell she was pretty good in Mando, but she wasn’t ever the wise stoic.

3. To my knowledge this is the first I’ve heard of Ahsoka training Sabine. Maybe take 3 of those minutes in the temple and let us catch up. I mean it wasn’t hard to understand, but it didn’t really fit a flow either.

4. I think it’s just a little too big for its britches with the stoicism part. Both with Ahsoka and Sabine. In the cartoons they tackled some heavy ass shit, but they didn’t make the characters boring and lifeless.

Hopefully it comes around, and I think it’s doing a lot right, but it’s certainly not Andor.

I have no problem with the female aspects here. In fact I hadn’t even noticed. I mean Baylon is pretty awesome, and I have no problem with dude bureaucrats being schlubs.

It all feels reasonable.

And yes. MEW has a very very spectacular ass.

The dude in black that fought Ahsoka with the droid on the dock before running away is clearly Ezra Bridger, I don't think you can get a more obvious eventual reveal.

Gave this a go. Just kind of dull so far, does it get better? I think Andor spoiled me as everything else Star Wars just feels so similar.

All the rumors I've read online actually said it more likely will be

Andor is far superior, no doubt. This is entertaining, and good for a nostalgia blast to see these characters in live action. It's definitely better than Obi-Wan (sans Vader duel at the end) and BoBF. I haven't been bored with it yet.

Interesting ending to E4.

Oh for sure....best episode yet.

Does anyone know how many episodes are in total, 8?

That was good. Very curious where they take it now.

And yes, there are eight episodes.

I really like this show.

That was a really damn good episode. Things were much less stonefaced and boring. Still the same stoicism, but with a little charisma.

Action was really good. Nothing was too forced.

Really good stuff. It's hitting its stride.

My Ezra theory was wrong, not sure what the black dust was, but I'm thrilled that all the major players are still alive on the show. I'm a really big fan of the blonde haired girl, I like her menacing tone and counter to Sabine. Every episode that goes by makes me sad that Ray Stevenson died, that character deserves a badass send off, hopefully sacrificing himself for his padawan or Ahsoka, but it'll be sad if they don't kill off the character and we'll never get to see him again with Ray playing him. Best episode yet for sure, brings back the mystery and suspense of Jedi tactics and ethos and ends on a great cliffhanger where I just want next week to get here. Great job with this show so far.

LMAO... welp...

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I meant to post it last night. ****ing Stevenson is awesome. He was REALLY good in this episode. He was probably the best performance in the episode.

Like you, I hope we get a good conclusion to the character and hopefully some more Ahsoka.

You know, if a couple of things would have just twisted a LITLLE different, I think it could have been on the verge of happening! Haha

And once again, bratty Sabine ****s everything up. Sacrificing countless people with her selfish bullshit.

And Ahsoka knew she'd do it.

Good on Filoni for being willing to make a fan favorite character a REALLY flawed one.

Because people really like Sabine and there are so many 'girlboss!' traps that they could've fallen into here. But they've lined out a character sketch for Sabine and she's played true to the form of that character.

Yeah, Ahsoka knew she'd do it - we ALL knew that she'd do it. Because she's a an immature and emotionally driven character. She always has been and they're sticking to that.

Good for them.

Not sure how Snips ended up where she did, but I'm intrigued.

Sabers fights are on POINT. Filoni knows how to set up and film an action scene. And the droid fight was great.

Loved the bait and switch with the force grab/gauntlet.

Yes. Excellent writing that has me wanting more.

If Lucasfilm had done something INTERESTING like this with Rey we'd have all gone bonkers. Should have had her ally with Kylo at the end of The Last Jedi.

To be honest, I was disappointed in the fight choreography of the Baylan/Ahsoka fight. Not sure what was up with that, but it was pretty weak.

I liked it well enough but watching it I felt like she wasn't giving 100% for some reason. Was she was TRYING to reach the World Between Worlds, maybe? Or probably the story just had to happen that way since if she took Baylan down, Sabine wouldn't be traveling to get Ezra?

Speaking of episode 5, apparently they're going to be showing it in selected theaters around the country.

https://collider.com/ahsoka-episode-...rs-screenings/

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I don’t know if or how it plays into it, but I noticed in both her fight with Baylan and the droid before she only used one of her light sabers. Initially with the droid I thought maybe that she was just showing how little she thought of her opponent which felt justified with how that duel ended up going). But to do the same with Baylan? It was just odd.

It's probably because you watched the cartoons. She was a ****ing monster in the Clone Wars, and even in Rebels when she fought Vader. You're just not going to do that kind of stuff with real humans.

And remember its a different fight than, "I'm going to straight up wax Maul" or "I need to buy so and so time to escape" or "I need to push this dude back so I can GTFO". She was there to get the map, not fight with Baylan.

But yeah, the smart move is to use both sabers, use the ability to close distance because that's what you're good at, dice this fool then go get the map.

I felt the same way about her appearance in Mando. She's not the fleet footed straight up warrior she was in the cartoons. It just isn't there.

Yeah, I think the better story is let Ahsoka wax the smokey inquisitor or whoever that was (That was pretty cool), do the Sabine trick, then have Shin force push her into a tree again, force pull her saber and then go after Ahsoka. If she would have gotten pushed over fighting both of them in a real fight, it would have been easier to buy.

its a bit of knit picking, it was good enough to keep me in it, and tell the story they want to tell. And some of it I think isn't going to happen with real actors. Some of the shit in the cartoons was off the chain.

It was green. It's some Nightsister magic reanimating a dead inquisitor.

Yeah - I've just chalked it up to a 45 yr old actress rather than a 21 yr old world class athlete being asked to make extremely athletic maneuvers. That's just asking a bit.

They could've tried to body double her, I guess. There ARE people that could likely bring that level of savagery and athleticism. Rosario Dawson just isn't.

Whatev. Like you said, it's noticeable, but it is what it is. I noticed it in her first fight (and Sabine's aren't a ton better; they look REALLY choreographed) but the storytelling is good so I deal with it.

Yeah there will be differences between animation and the live action in terms of speed and ability for fights, but I liked the Baylan Ahsoka fight, him toying with her, as a big hulking imposing foe, just never understood why she didn't just slice the orb but instead grabbed it with her hand. You wanted to destroy it right? I know every show has those "plot armor" moments, but that was a glaring one that I'm okay with so the story can go forward, but it made no sense, and because she has a burnt hand she can't fight anymore... cmon now.

Because deep down she either wants it to find and destroy Thrawn or find Ezra. Or both.

Yeah, and once was enough. Seems like the only smart character on this little adventure is the droid, who specifically told them not to separate, and with good reason. Together they could have dusted evil blond minion with ease and then together taken down the old guy and got the map thing. But of course, that would have been the end of it. So instead they turn an interesting character from Rebels into a plot driving moron. I wonder what she'll **** up next? :shake:

Just seems like lazy writing. IMO, this isn't any better than Kenobi, worse than Book of Boba Fett, far worse than Mandalorian and dogshit compared to Andor.

you better keep watching, because the payoff is going to be epic

I'm definitely going to keep watching; I do need an occasional break from Starfield. :D But I definitely have diminished expectations.

But going forward, this is definitely the way (as the Mandalorian would say) to handle Sabine.

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i'd think you'd be pleased after the mary sue bullshit in the ST

Moron is a step up from Mary Sue, but still, I'd prefer no morons.

Sabine has been reduced to the chick in a horror movie who hides behind the chainsaws, except she's not allowed to die.

Best episode yet.

Whoever the girl was that played young Ahsoka was fantastic.

That's how you do an episode.

She was excellent.

Even the fight with Rosario and Anakin was a lot better. Still suffers a lot of technical failures, but at least they were moving and managing distance.

Hopefully it's building momentum and not blowing it's load.

I should point out that all that was straight up telegraphed from the start, but still the best episode. Just goes to show, tell an inspired story well and all is well.

Yes. Good portrayal of young Ahsoka after the Clone Wars had been grinding on for a while. Best I've seen of Hayden Christiansen.

LMAO Imagine 20 years ago being told that Hayden Christiansen is the absolute highlight of any Star Wars project when he shows up.

Filoni just knows how to do Star Wars.

Much better episode. No Jar Jar Sabine.

They course corrected with Anakin kicking her ass, and the inclusion of Jacen being Force sensitive

Angry teen Ahsoka knows how to kick some ass. That's what I'm talking about...

Also... the silly magic space whales? I didn't like them in Rebels, and they're equally goofy in this.

Nonetheless you knew that shit was happening.

You leave the obvious plot armor alone, damn you!

Best episode yet. Hope we see more of Anakin or reference. Good for Christianson.

Ariana Greenblatt. She played Young Gemorah in Infinity War/Endgame. She was excellent

When I was watching her performance, I thought she wasn't just acting like she was just playing Ahsoka. She was playing Rosario Dawson playing Ahsoka which was incredible. The way she spoke and the sound of her voice sounded so similar, just in the voice and the body of a teenager. I was really impressed.

Wow. Live action clone wars. Real clone troopers. Stunning.

AHSOKA HAS CALLED A BIG ONE!!! :D

Spellbinding stuff.

Anakin was great.

Yes. Exactly how I felt.

There might be some potential here for a live-action Clone Wars spinoff. The de-aging tech is working REALLY well now.

Anakin parts makes me wish they could re-shoot the prequels. :mad:

I'd LOVE to see a no-suit Vader.

They're like poetry



Also pretty sure "get close to one of the big ones" was an ESB reference? :D

LMAO

WAIT, THE KID'S ****ING NAME IS JACEN?!?

LMAO

That's awesome. Thought she looked familiar but couldn't pinpoint it. She was awesome as Ahsoka. She was also in 65 which is where I recognized her from.

It was a great episode, make live action stories or series with Hayden Christensen and that young actress that played Ahsoka more often imo. Seems like the future of Star Wars goes through the Clone Wars story arcs so as long as they don't selfishly milk every ounce out of it and cheapen the overall narrative, I say Ahsoka is your torch bearer for the forseeable future. Mandalorian hit it's peak in Season 2 so we'll see how long this can go on for.

They made Anakin look a LOT more fierce than Ahsoka has looked throughout this series.

That savagery I've been mentioning clearly existed with Anakin. The strikes had intent behind them and there was speed to burn with everything he did.

Yeah, it was the best fight thus far, but I do think it made me suspend disbelief a little - she still looked noticeably overmatched when you just look at the respective abilities and it just took her being defensive the entire time to make it look even semi even.

Not sure how they made Anakin look that dynamic but I still think they do Ahsoka a disservice in how they're mapping out her fights.

It's probably just Hayden being passionate about doing those duels to the best of his abilities.

Lando movie coming

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="zxx" dir="ltr"><a href="https://t.co/P2yw5IJt3y">pic.twitter.com/P2yw5IJt3y</a></p>&mdash; Billy Dee Williams (@realbdw) <a href="https://twitter.com/realbdw/status/1686188471906619393?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 1, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Gonk Droid movie coming in 2030.

And accidentally downvoted that. My bad.

I need to rewatch the fight, but I think, especially early on it was purposeful. Remember she said "I won't fight you." So it makes sense she was defensive. It wasn't until after the flashback, after he disarmed her, that she got mad. And I will say when she yoinked his lightsaber and held it at his neck, I was like GODDAMN.

So I think there is an argument to be made that she was just blocking his attacks and it wasn't until she lost her weapons and he was going to kill her that she entered the fight in earnest.

And I probably wasn't clear, I really appreciate the story arc. Her needing to accept her place in life rather than trying to compartmentalize Anakin away, as well as the relationship to and responsibility for the padawans. I won't lie, I was pretty eye-rolly with her scenes with Sabine, but I appreciate it much more now, and I'm excited to get them back together. It needed patience, but as of today, I'm happy.

Good Lord BDW is 86 surely he is just a spokesperson but not playing thecharacter.


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Perhaps he'll just do a voiceover narration or something. Kind of like Morgan Freeman, only suave. :D

I would hope lol

Did they not learn from the most recent Indiana Jones.

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I'm envisioning bookends with him as an old bartender or something telling a story.

Re: the lighstaber fight... I think good points have been made about the defensive style Ahsoka started with.

And in both of these fights, I think there are two factors to consider when judging Ahsoka's power level and effectiveness:

1. She has other objectives in each fight. With Baylan Skol, she is trying to get to and retrieve the orb. With "Anakin," she is in defense mode. She doesn't want to fight.

2. I'll put on my Star Wars nerdery hat for a second and talk about lightsaber styles. Ahsoka has always been an Ataru/Jar Kai (Form IV) style wielder, who focuses on speed and flurries of blows and athleticism. This style is incredibly effective against multiple opponents, especially non-Force users.

Anakin is a Djem So (Form V) wielder, and according to the internal dialogue of Count Dooku*, THE master of this form. That form specifically is a tough matchup in a 1x1 duel for styles that are focused more on speed and precision (Makashi - Form II; Ataru - Form IV) because it is built on the defensive form (III) but focuses on incredible powerful strikes.

Baylan appears, based on the movements, the lightsaber, and the general style of fighting, to also be a Djem So fighter.

Ahsoka, being an athletic fighter who focuses on speed and multiple strikes and movement and precision, SHOULD have a tough time in a duel with someone who is much larger, heavier, and stronger than her, specifically deploying a lightsaber combat form that generates a lot of power in its strikes.

I'll take the hat off now.

* I will once again reference the maginficence of the Revenge of the Sith novelization, written by the fantastic Matthew Stover, which is where I pulled that internal dialgoue from Dooku from.

That book is worth reading just to be inside Dooku's head during the duel with Anakin and Obi-Wan. He comes into the fight so confident he will handle them, and that confidence is reinforced when they display Form IV techniques early in the fight (athleticism, flips, etc - specifically something Dooku's Makashi/Form II makes mince meat of unless you're Yoda). Then Obi-Wan switches to Soresus/Form III and Dooku is like "shit, he's a Form III user now? And holy shit, he's the best one I've ever seen. Gotta get him out of the fight!" So he does. And then Anakin switchs to Djem So/Form V, and Dooku again is like "Oh shit. He's this now? Oh holy shit, HE'S the best at this I'v ever seen and I can't handle this!"

it's fantastic. Stover is the shit.

That is, without a doubt, the nerdiest Star Wars shit I've ever read.

Good stuff, Duncan...

(But if Ahsoka's style is based on speed and athleticism, shouldn't she appear to be fast and agile?)

It's the space opera version of "big strong guy in plate mail with a broadsword fighting small fast guy with a rapier," to make it less nerdy.

I could give Clay a run for his money on SW nerdery stuff. I've stepped away from it a bit since the Disney acquisition (I owed basically all the EU books and comics), but some of the stuff stuck.

I also GMed a Star Wars RPG game for a few years, so had to REALLY dig into lightsabers styles and their intended interactions with each other.

Yeah, that's some deep shit Duncan. I have to admit there is no chance I'm going that deep.

But to DJ's point, I will point out again, that they are at least moving and managing distance.

This is probably the dumbest moment I've seen in any fight ****ing ever. (In case it doesn't work, it's at 1:40)

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Just stading there whirling blades around? Take a step back and wax this fool. I like the fight and there are times they manage space well, but that is just incomprehensibly stupid.

Largely, give me an entertaining fight and avoid REALLY dumb shit like this, and I'll suspend belief.

Zooming out, I'm with you on most of the fights in the show Ahsoka dispatching Morak notwithstanding. But this one was better.

*Ducks the hell out before Duncan tells me why standing next to someone and flailing is good martial technique from some arcane treatise in the Jedi Archive. :D

It still irritates me to no end how badly Ewan McGregor was wasted by the Star Wars universe.

He's just always good...

I've never read the novelization and I'm lesser for it.

Its actually called a flourish, and can be used to confuse someone

I know. But 2 dudes don’t do it to each other. And if you do it, you don’t leave the line to your midsection wide open.

Remains one of the dumbest things ever in Star Wars.

My justification for it has always been that since light sabers won't have mass to speak of, inertia is a way to increase striking force. So you whip that sucker around a time or two in order to speed it up and bring more force to the party...