Wut? They haven't beaten us twice at Arrowhead

He's unquestionably elite.

He's unanimously top 3.

That's elite by any reasonable standard.

He has the best ball placement of any QB I've ever seen.

Too young to remember Dan Marino?

I didn't know fans could change the outcome of a game, maybe one should try it:hmmm:

Can someone explain to me how one can be a better QB but not the better player? That makes no damn sense.

Orlosky moved goalposts so he's correct either way

Brady Ballwashers makes it make sense:drool:

I remember Marino well, and that's a good comp.

Burrow is kind of like Marino with two functioning knees that can move and run.

The reeruned argument goes something like:

Herp derp big brain smart guy stuff that's burrow duhhhhhrrrr athlete who does random shit dat's mahomes duhhhhhh

Joe "Cool" and being elite? Yeah, no.
 

What about the standard of playing well when it matters most? It’s odd to me how easily people want to gloss over his post season (fourth quarter especially) performance so far.

They’ve won 1 at Arrowhead (“22 AFCCG), which is why the Burrowhead comment was ALWAYS asinine.

And yes, Burrow is absolutely an elite QB, but a step below Mahomes who is otherworldly.

The guy's in his third year. If that's what it looks like in year 10, you've got a legit argument.

It’s similar, no doubt.

To me “elite” is earned. He has elite potential and some great abilities and I think is probably the second best QB at the moment but that doesn’t automatically mean he is elite. I think him being second best though is a function of his play combined with maybe the largest collection of young QBs ever not being currently challenged with established veterans still playing really well.

He's very good, but to consider him elite, I want to see how he handles not having a stacked roster once they have to start paying people. If he's still making deep runs with lesser talent around him, then I would definitely put him in the elite category

Then you have an absurd bar for 'elite'.

If a guy is probably the second best QB, that's elite, no question.

I figure that at any point in time, there are 5 guys on the planet that play NFL QB at an 'elite' level. Some guys are perennial, some guys have a flash year, some guys age off of it or are injured and never regain it.

If Burrow is QB2, and I think he is, then that is elite.

Being a top regular season QB doesn’t make you elite.

He might be elite but I'll never admit it because **** the Bengals

Yes, I meant two AFC Championships. Thanks for the correction. :thumb:

Joe i a really good QB but like Brady he must have things be perfect. OL, Running game, defense and top talent. He won't make it happen.

In a universe where Mahomes played baseball, Joe Burrow is the best QB in the NFL.

Unfortunately for Joe, that's not this world.

Some people just hate winners. Especially when it's not your team or they compete with your team yearly.

Joe passes the eye test. He has changed the outlook of the Bengals franchise.

Burrow is dangerous enough that we can't play around in off-season.

He will get his OL solidified.

We need another pass-rusher and 1 more coverage safety for me to breathe easier on defense.

If we don't do that, I'm also fine with adding another OL and a top weapon and just letting Mahomes score 35+ a game.

guy's taken a perennial bottom feeder team to two AFCCG's in three seasons, and won one of them.

You're bonkers.

He's unquestionably elite. You have no idea what you're looking at if you watch him play, look at that accuracy and think he's not elite.

Bonkers.

Joe has played one good post season game. Then rest the defense carried them in reality.

You don't get to be "elite" until you win some hardware. Burrow is no closer to "elite" than Herbert, especially considering Burrow's all-world receiving corps and top 10 defense.

Joe Burrow probably has the best supporting cast a QB has had in years...

He has probably the best receiver in the league mixed with another guy who will get #1 money and his 3rd receiver is high end as well. His backs are also good...the only thing he doesn't have is a top 10 TE, that's it.

You think putting up regular season numbers and being carried by defense through the playoffs, then when the team needs you, the QB, the most you fail on the last 5 drives in the Super Bowl to score anything and fail on the last 2 in the AFC championship to score anything makes for an elite QB. I don’t.

God I wish we drafted Tee Higgins.

He'd be so perfect for this offense

Guess the same could be said for Mahomes when he started his second year. Hill and Kelce are some pretty awesome players that were already in a system that was functioning well (Playoffs). Also, helps to have a proven winning coach with 20+ years experience.

Joe on the other hand was coming to a team that had the #1 overall pick for a reason.

He's very, very good, but still has a lot of learning to do only playing in the league for 2 full seasons. He tends to hold the ball too long at times but is starting to get much better at that. His accuracy and moxy can be off the charts though.

TBF to him during his two playoff seasons, his O-line in all those playoff games was no better than a turnstile.

Not easy in big games against the likes of:
Jeffery Simmons
Maxx Crosby
J. Houston/Roquan Smith
Chris Jones/Frank Clark
Aaron Donald/Von Miller


Bengals' playoff O-lines Adeniji, Sharping, Q. Spain

Anytime us Chiefs fans would hear about this horrid Oline the Bengals had... we would get all excited and then the Chiefs Dline would be near worthless. It was getting hard to believe.

This past game, I just think the Chiefs Dline wanted it more, not necessarily that the Bengals Oline stinks... I mean they just dominated in Buffalo.

Fake Joe is plenty good enough to win a bowl, elite yes.

I'm not going to try to compare Burrow to Mahomes until he gets paid and the team can't keep the best wide receivers group in the NFL together. He looked much more mortal Sunday night with Boyd hurt. Doesn't bode well for his future. Mahomes is already being paid and had to live without Tyreek. He responded with an MVP season and a trip to the Superbowl. Let's see what Burrow does when that happens to him. His best window is closing soon.

I hope Burrow is elite. We'll see in about 2-3 years, but I have high hopes.

At least Pacheco can make us feel a lot better about the CEH pick.

Burrough being elite will only further help KC stay in shape.

*Dan Marino has entered the chat

He was elite...for his era. However, he wasn't worthy of washing the Brittany leavins' out of Mahomes' jock.

A bad OL can wreck a game for any QB. It happened to Mahomes when he played the Bucs two years ago. It happened to Burrow.

BTW, our young pups on defense have grown into hounds. Cook, Williams, Watson, George, and McDuffie are all finding their groove. That was a monster game and they held their water. Not nearly enough credit is being given to our young ascending defense. Spags too.

Joe Burrow isn't elite? That's absurd. Peyton Manning was considered elite before he won a SB. He was 3-6 in the playoffs up until age 30 when he finally won. Burrow is the 2nd best QB in the league and even though he's not Patrick Mahomes that doesn't mean he's not elite.

It’s a dumb take. No need to debate it

This is all subjective, but IMO Burrow is a good-to-very good QB with one of the best WR corps the NFL has ever seen. None of his physical traits are elite, and he has faltered in the two biggest games of his career.

He's the flavor of the month, just like Allen, Herbert, and every other QB anointed "The next challenger to Mahomes" before him. He'll get his big contract, the Bengals will not draft as well as Veach has, their talent level will decrease, and Burrow will join the ranks of the other pretenders.

Agree that Mahomes doesn't have a challenger but after Mahomes who are your top QB's?

If not Burrow you have to make a case for someone.

If Daboll was still in Buffalo you could make a case for Josh Allen. Now that's he gone it's almost Burrow by default.

I think he has some strong traits:

1. Super quick release
2. Very smart in reading defense
3. Underrated mobility
4. Very accurate
5. Plenty of arm strength

He’s really damn good. Now I do think he has benefited a lot from a very strong Cincy defense in the Playoffs. We will see if that continues long term.

Joe went fetal on the one Chris Jones sack. He's been really good but young superstars don't go fetal.

Burrow hasn't done shit in the playoffs but get carried by his defense. Allen is better, has already done more in the NFL and actually carries his team.

For all the talk about how good he is at reading defenses, he sure as shit couldn't read ours.

Cincy’s offense will continue to be very good over time. They will have Burrow & Chase helping elevate the other guys on that side of the ball.

The much bigger question is what happens to the defense? They have been phenomenal in the Playoffs the last two seasons, giving up less than 19 points per game and never more than 23 points in a game. Compare this with KC or Buffalo defenses having several pretty bad games in the Playoffs. Will the Cincy defense be able to keep performing this well every year?

I guess it also depends on how you define "elite". I'm sure many people feel the top 2 or 3 QBs at any given time are elite by default, but I don't. I see nothing from Burrow that we haven't seen before. Smart, accurate, blah blah blah. Might as well add "gritty, brings his lunch pail to work" to his resume'.

From what I've seen of Burrow so far, I think he's on the cusp of being elite. Sometimes he seems to have the "it" factor and sometimes he melts down. His performances across the playoffs in the 4th quarter suggest he's not nearly as clutch as some make him out to be.

It will be interesting to see if he ever wins a Super Bowl, since the last like 15 QB's to lose their first Super Bowl appearance never made it back.

I mean no QB has a perfect game every time. There are plenty of examples of Tom Brady looking like shit for instance. Chiefs DL finally got some pressure on Burrow. They were aided by the injuries on the Cincy OL, very similar to how Tampa’s pass rush gained a big advantage when Mahomes’ OL got wiped out with injuries.

Joe "Cool" and being elite? Yeah, no.
 

Which of these players would you consider elite? One of them is Burrow. These are all players that have had some good seasons but been okay at best in the post season despite some team success but ultimately they have failed when it matters most. So who is the elite player and who is not? No cheating.

Player 1 season 1
Yards - 6th
Comp % - 18th
Y/A - 7th
Rating - 7th
QBR - 5th
TD - 5th

Player 1 season 2
Yards - 4th
Comp % - 20th
Y/A - 4th
Rating - 8th
QBR - 10th
TD - 8th

Player 2 season 1
Yards - 6th
Comp % - 1st
Y/A - 1st
Rating - 2nd
QBR - 12th
TD - 8th

Player 2 season 2
Yards - 5th
Comp % - 2nd
Y/A - 10th
Rating - 6th
QBR - 10th
TD - 2nd

Player 3 season 1
Yards - 2nd
Comp % - 3rd
Y/A - 1st
Rating - 1st
QBR - 1st
TD - 2nd

Player 3 season 2
Yards - 3rd
Comp % - 4th
Y/A - 8th
Rating - 4th
QBR - 9th
TD - 3rd

Player 4 season 1
Yards - 8th
Comp % - 8th
Y/A - 1st
Rating - 3rd
QBR - 3rd
TD - 6th

Player 4 season 2
Yards - 1st
Comp % - 3rd
Y/A - 1st
Rating - 2nd
QBR - 8th
TD - 2nd

This is where I am at.

Look at the whole body of work though.

In his first year as a starter, Mahomes had one of the best 2nd halves in playoff history, forcing the Patriots to overtime only to lose because of the defense.

In his 2nd year as a starter, there was the magical TD run to beat the Titans in the AFCCG and then he hit WASP to win the Super Bowl after being down and seemingly out against the 49ers.

In his 3rd year, against the purportedly unstoppable Bills, he put up 325 yards, 3 TD's and 0 INT's.

The only time he's REALLY choked in a big game situation was last year's AFCCG. And if you want to nitpick, there was the SB against the Bucs.

If you want to break down Josh Allen in the postseason, his resume looks more similar to Mahomes than probably anybody else.

On the other hand, Joe Burrow has done it exactly once and that was last year's AFCCG. He's never really had to do anything special to win in the playoffs. And when they needed him to be special, pick up the team, and will them to victory (against the Rams and again last Sunday) he couldn't do it.

And you can't just blame on the line. Mahomes has been harassed constantly. Both tackles were bottom in the league in pressures given up, yet were near the top in the league in sacks given up.

If Mahomes is elite, then IMHO Burrow CAN'T be.

It wasn't just pass rush. They completely changed how they played the Bengals in the secondary.

Spags dialed up a gameplan that didn't fear Chase. They played man, they doubled, they showed one thing and did another. He couldn't diagnose shit. Similar to the Ravens. Our pass rush only REALLY kicked ass in the 1st and 4th qtrs.

Joe Burrow is good at slicing up zones that sit back in fear of his WR's, like the Bills did.

Way too much is being made of his play diagnosis acumen. He ain't no Brady yet. He's not even Mahomes yet in that department.

I definitely think Burrow has gotten way more help from his defense than either Mahomes or Allen in playoff games. Joe has 2 playoff losses where the Cincy defense only gave up 23 points each time. Mahomes has 3 playoff losses where the KC defense gave up 32 points per game. Allen has 3 playoff losses where the Buffalo defense gave up 36 points per game.

Even a numbnuts like Kirk Cousins would look like the second coming with that WR corps.

At least Allen has some elite physical characteristics that we haven't seen in a QB with his size and passing ability before.

Allen > Burrow, and it isn't particularly close.

Exactly. I said this exact thing yesterday - that Burrow without Chase and Higgins is like Cousins before he had JJ.

You're pushing Chiefsfanatic for dumbest football analysis this postseason.

This is a stupid argument.

Moronic.

Burrow is QB2 on most analyists list, and no lower than QB3 on ****ing anybody's list, and arguing that's not elite is just ****ing stupid.

Kirk Cousins has nocturnal ejaculations dreaming of that kind of accuracy and ball placement.

Not really. I'm in Vikings country and see a lot of their games. When the pressure is down and the team is loose, Cousins has some pretty nice touch on the ball. He looks REALLY good.

The problem is that Cousins is the exact opposite of clutch. When the lights get bright and the squeeze is real, he shits down his leg more often than not.

Cousins plays in the clutch like he grills.

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/am...-of-july-grill

Great. Alex Smith had the same traits. Too bad he didn't have 2-3 #1 WRs.

It’s not stupid to expect someone with an elite label to have earned it. He hasn’t earned it by any reasonable measure, especially in the post season. Go back and pick out Burrow from my list and tell me why he is elite but those other three aren’t, or I guess you can label them all elite and reveal a catastrophic bias.

Oh dude, REERUN.


Alex Smith was never anywhere near Burrow.

You guys are really letting your Bengals hatred cloud any sort of judgement whatsoever.

You want to talk about Burrow not getting a ring, okay, that's a legit argument for not being in MAHOMES class, but you absolutely cannot claim that he's not an elite QB.

This is dumb.

Mahomes is legitimately in the discussion for the best to ever play and he's 27 years old.

This is totally skewing your ability to see anything around that with any objectivity.

The test is this-

If Mahomes did not exist, what QB would you want if you could take anyone in football?

Maybe you say Josh Allen. Maybe you say Burrow. But hardly anyone has another answer to that question.

He’s an elite QB and he’s proven it in college and the NFL. That being said he doesn’t get the same scrutiny that Mahomes got. Mahomes first two years it was “he’s great but he has the benefit of playing with Tyreek, Kelce, Watkins and Hardman”. I’ve never heard anyone say Burrow is great but he has continuity with an all world receiver he’s played with since college, as well as Tee Higgins and a damn good TE. Easy to be “Joe Cool” with an athletic freak who can out muscle most DBs for the ball and gets away with pushing off.

Look, I didn't even like Burrow as an NFL prospect, really. I thought he was a one year wonder who played on a loaded team. I thought he was way overhyped.

But that guy doesn't throw dimes, he throws ****ing pebbles. Those aren't 50/50 balls, they're 80/20 and it's not all due to the WR's although they're great, but look again. There's no separation. Burrow just puts it in a six inch window from 30 yards away on the fly, and he does it regularly.

He's great. And in any other situation, we'd love that guy so much it would hurt.

But we've got Mahomes, and that's a whole different situation.
Burrow is QB2.

Joe Burrow is absolutely an elite QB. Stop with this BS.

Burrow is extremely accurate. He has a million times better mobility than your typical pocket passers like Brady. And he has a pretty strong arm as well. Their offense will continue to be very good with Burrow & Chase for many years.

I do think Burrow gets a lot of help from the defense, which is the main thing where I don't like the media narratives. It is not all about the QB, but they sure as hell try to make it seem that way. When your defense gives up less than 19 points per game (and no more than 23 points in any game) for 2 straight Playoff years, you are going to have a very solid chance to win every game.

You are not someone who should be calling another a reerun. You sucked on CEH so much he probably has flowers sent to you on special occasions.

The premise of this thread is incredibly ignorant and stupid.

Patrick Mahomes is unquestionably the #1 QB in the NFL, with a bullet.

Burrow, Allen and Herbert are behind him. In that order? Probably, though i'm not sold on Herbert in the postseason. Burrow and Allen are the only 2 that have a proven, realistic chance to legitimately chase him for hardware.

There is only 1 redeeming quality to the OP.

It shows who knows what a football is and who thinks a football is something that grows in your anus.

Elite? Yes
Top 3? Yes
The next Brady? TBD

You been saving that up for awhile, haven't you? So WITTY.

I admitted long ago that I misjudged Clyde.
I'm still waiting on the Josh Gordon break out game.

Joe Burrow in games where he had a healthy, utterly average offensive line after playing 2 whole games together.

292/423 69% 3348 7.9 28/6 108.7 rating

Sacked 24 times in 12 games (NYJ through Tampa). 2 per game. This doesn't even include the Pats game, when Collins went down right before halftime, where he threw for 375 and 3 tds.

Burrow in 4 consecutive games without Ja'Marr Chase (all 4 within the previous set of games).

93/139 66.9% 1063 7.6 8/3 99.9 rating. One of those game the Bengals rushed 39 times for 241yards and 5 rushing TDs.

Oh, did i mention that he's the NFL's all time leader in completion percentage for a career? Holey mother of ****turds.

Anyone who says the next Brady before Joe has played 10 years in the league, should be looked at with a raised eyebrow.

Character traits of Brady or Montana. Sure. On field performance will be quite a few years away though.

If you compare Burrow's statline from the 2021 POs vs Jimmy G's it's honestly not that different.

However, I do think Burrow is one of the top 4 QBs in the league currently (Mahomes is in a league by himself) that is interchangeable with Allen/Herbert with guys like Hurts/Lamar just below them.

What is this obsession with calling Herbert a Top 5 QB? Burrow is clearly a better QB than Herbert.

Of the 3, Burrow has the best supporting cast with the worst OL.

Allen probably has the worst supporting cast of the 3. Herbert has the middle of the 2.

I think Herbert's handcuffed with a buffoon as HC.

Herbert had an opportunity to show what he is all about in the playoffs and watched Lawrence not only have one of the worst halves of playoff football ever, but also one of the biggest comebacks ever. I have never seen a QB get more love for doing less. Burrow does have more talent around him, but ask yourself if you had to pick one QB to lead your team in the SB if the talent surrounding them was the same who are you picking between the two?