I REPEAT :


It's Per item 3:

"player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time"

Because if the clock isn't running before the play, then you're not saving any time by spiking the ball, correct?

Which, by definition of the rules, means it's not a legal spike.

Why did he spike the ball?

What strategic purpose did that serve??

The clock wasn't running and the 25 second clock hadn't even started yet; take your time, call a play at the line, an RPO, PLENTY of time...

The spike did not save time, as the clock wasn't running. Since the rules state that you can ONLY spike the ball TO SAVE TIME ON THE GAMECLOCK, he committed intentional grounding.

Per the rules in item 3.


Per item 3:

"player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time"

If the clock isn't running, then therefore the player is not legally stopping the clock to save time; e.g. intentional grounding is the correct call.

Otherwise, ANY incomplete/intentional grounding was "done to stop the clock, ref!"

Why wasn't the clock running if the penalty was declined. Have I just never noticed that it stops?

Sounds like someone needs quartered.

AND I REPEAT:

WHERE ON THE PLAY WAS MAHOMES UNDER PRESSURE?

A quarterback MUST be under pressure in order for an intentional grounding penalty.

the problem is, that once the ball is snapped the game clock is running and he is quote Saving Time by definition. I agree that it was a mistake, but I don't believe it violates the rules

Bullshit!

You can flag him for it if he's in the pocket and doesn't throw toward the line of scrimmage or in the direction of the reciever.

Remember?

The rules??

We need that chick refs opinion of the play.

****ING ****S!!!
LMAO

Who did she play for anyway?

So what is the purpose of this rule? I am sure I am missing something, but it seems like a stupid rule. What is the harm of losing the down and proceeding to the next?

The clock always stops after a defensive penalty.

It's supposed to start again when the ball is spotted/ref gives the ready to play signal.

I'm literally reading the rules to you when I say:

YOU CANNOT FLAG A QUARTERBACK FOR INTENTIONAL GROUNDING IF HE IS NOT UNDER PRESSURE.

That's the very first stipulation of the penalty.

Defensive pressure.

No defensive pressure = no grounding.

Literally in the rules.

Literally the first sentence.

Literally ignored by fat ref.

PMII was just ****ing with the ref to see what the ref would call. You could tell by the gleam in PMII’s eye.

So if a team wants to throw a pass to stop the clock and not get intentional grounding, but the game clock isn't running?

You gotta throw at a receivers feet. Toward the line of scrimmage.

Or get outside the pocket REAL quick and throw it away.

According to the rules for like, 25 years or so.

It was a mistake.

On Reid and Mahomes.

Of course, the officials should have told them that the clock was stopped and that they would not wind it with the play clock...

But that's not what we're talking about here.

Not within the last 2 minutes of the half or 5 minutes of the game. It stays stopped until the snap - just like OOB.

OOB = Old Otter Balls

REID AND MAHOMES ****ED UP.

They shouldn't have spiked the ****ing ball - I HATE THE ****ING NFL AND HOW THEY INTERPRET RULES AND HOW THEY RIG SHIT ALL THE ****ING TIME.

AND GODDAMN IT CLAY, I'M TELLING YOU THEY INTERPRETED IT CORRECTLY. THIS TIME.

In order to SPIKE TO SAVE TIME...THERE HAS TO BE TIME RUNNING OFF THE CLOCK AT THE TIME OF THE SNAP.

There was ZERO time saved by the spike. In fact...we lost time and yardage and a FG attempt.

There was XX time when the play clock started.

PMII could have taken 24 seconds to look things over with no loss of gametime. That'd be why it was illegal - because he didn't HAVE to do it. Because the clock wasn't running.

You lovable lunkhead. Per item 3:

"player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time"

What that means to me, and the NFL, is that even if he isn't under pressure, he didn't do it to stop the clock...because the clock was already stopped.

Which supersedes the 'lack of pressure', as the penalty occurs without regard to pressure - or lack thereof.

Which makes it intentional grounding.

I am fantastically excited to learn about this part of the intentional grounding penalty rule,

Can you show it to me in the rule book?

I WISH TO LEARN ABOUT IT.

Per item 3:

"player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time"



If the clock isn't running AT THE SNAP, then therefore the player is not legally stopping the clock to save time; e.g. intentional grounding is the correct call.

Since the clock was not running AT THE THE SNAP, therefore it is impossible to have a spike to stop a clock that is already stopped.

That's just logic.

It's impossible to spike a ball to save time on a clock that is not running.

It can't be done.

If the clock is stopped, then you can't spike the ball. Because you're not doing the spike to stop a clock that is not running.

That means, it was intentional grounding. If the clock is stopped, then you're not spiking the ball to stop a clock that isn't running.

By definition.

You can't legally stop a clock that isn't running. It isn't possible.

I don't know how else to explain that to you.

It's like trying to explain how water is wet, at this point.

So it's a penalty just because you did not have to do it but no advantage is gained in fact you lose the down? Makes no sense.

Quite right my friend.

I am still awaiting a copy and pasting of the rule for intentional grounding that occurs with no defensive pressure.

Did they conveniently leave that page out of the online PDF?

IS IS A MYSTERY

For that stupid ****ing spike to be a ****ing penalty.

There would have to be a section in the ****ing rule book.

That specifies:

Show me that mother****ing sentence. Otherwise that ****ing FAT ****ING BUTT****ING ZERBA **** WA S****INGWROIWQNMAIANJCVISEJDGFAEDU

But the call was declined. I assumed if the play on the field is kept the clock would be related to that result.

The intentional grounding was a bullshit call the Refs ****ed up. It's right up there with the forward progress being stopped when it should have been a sack fumble but Triplette decided otherwise

By definition, intentional grounding has very specific things mentioned in the rule. If they would have called delay of game or something like that I'd get it, but based on the rules written how they are, I don't see how you can call intentional grounding.

The clock was running when the ball was spiked. Because of that, the spike was made to save time. The rules need to have something specific saying it would be intentional grounding to spike the ball if the clock is stopped before the snap. Without that, the NFL is making shit up with interpretations of the rules that are not specific enough.

1. The PLAY clock was running; the GAME clock was not. The item 3: "player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time" is telling :

Can't do it from the shotgun, and it has to be done to stop the GAME CLOCK LEGALLY TO SAVE TIME.

If the GAME CLOCK isn't running, then therefore the player is not legally stopping the clock to save time. Because the clock wasn't running.

Clay keeps asking for the rule, and I see it right there in black and white.

2. It was intentional grounding;
The QB was not outside the pocket, did not throw toward the line of scrimmage, had no receiver in the area, and the game clock was not running at the snap, so it wasn't done to legally save time on the clock.

IDK if anyone has mentioned this but the clock was clearly running, it ticked off 1 second before the snap and spike. Anyone that could post that vid would be greatly appreciated.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

FALSE. It went from 9 seconds to 8 seconds BEFORE the snap

Was the QB under pressure?

IF HE WASN'T UNDER PRESSURE

GUESS WHAT BUCKO

IT'S NOT INTENTIONAL GROUNDING

NEVER IN A MILLION BILLION TRILLION YEARS!!!!

IT'S IN THE RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROFL

Yes...... I clearly saw the clock go from 9 seconds to 8 and stay there to the next play....

Na. You're wrong on that one. Go back and watch it again.

It ticked from 9 to 8 during the play.

No, Reid and Mahomes ****ed up and should've ran an RPO. THEY HAD 25 SECONDS TO GET SET AND CALL THE PLAY AND PROTECTION.

THERE WAS NO POINT IN SPIKING, ON TOP OF IT DRAWING THE PENALTY.

Don't blame the refs for Reid and Mahomes making a mistake - they're not perfect and they can learn from that.

The Triplette 'forward progress' was the straight up no-lube NFL screw-job.

There's no comparison.

I've been paying attention to the WWNFL and how they rig shit for years now, and they mix shit like this, a controversial call that they actually got right, to obfuscate and confuse.

Exactly.

The ref wound the PLAY clock which went from 25 to 24, Mahomes snapped the ball and THEN the game clock started.

It was intentional grounding.

Per the rules.

Yeah. Because it took one second to SPIKE THE BALL.

ROFL

Nope ... have it on dvr

You're wrong.

I'm looking at it right now.

It's at 9 seconds the entire time before Mahomes snaps the ball and spikes it.

If the clock wasn't running at the snap, he's gotta throw at a receiver unless he's outside the pocket and throwing toward the LOS.

It's totally in the rules.

Love,
Bucko

If a team spikes it when the clock isnt running, they are already penalizing themselves unnecessarily by burning a down. A flag and a 10 yard loss + 10 second runoff is dumb. That scenario shouldnt induce a grounding penalty. Its not the purpose of the rule.

sooooo....post it and end the speculation...

Yes.. you are right ... after watching again...

Here's a vid. Clock doesn't start until the ball is snapped. https://thebiglead.com/2018/11/04/pa...ng-on-a-spike/ (site is aids but it loads eventually)

The important thing we've learned here, is that beings with vaginas have no place being referees in this league.

If it's not a LEGAL SPIKE TO STOP THE CLOCK, the QB must throw at a receiver, or throw towards the LOS while outside the pocket, or it is by definition intentional grounding.

Since it's logically IMPOSSIBLE to stop a clock that isn't running, the spike was not legal Per item 3.

Thank you

rabble and clay putting on a microcosm of the internet here

BOOM.

INTENTIONAL GROUNDING.

CORRECT CALL..

Difference is...I'm laughing over here.

Can't believe it's even a question.

I think your missing the point some though - as I did at first. Just because the rule says a player can spike the ball to stop the clock, nowhere is it clear that means they *can't* spike the ball under normal legal spike circumstances.

What was the intent of that line about spiking the ball? Was it:

A) just to make it clear that a spike to stop the clock (as any other spike when not under duress) is legal?

OR

B) to make it clear that only a spike when the clock is running is legal but a spike when the clock is running is not?

It's badly worded, but my money leans toward A.

Here is Item 3. Stopping Clock. A player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time if, immediately upon receiving the snap, he begins a continuous throwing motion and throws the ball directly into the ground.

The ball was snapped, the game clock starts, Mahomes immediately upon receiving the snap begins a continuous throwing motion and throws the ball directly into the ground.

Once the ball is snapped, the game clock is running so the player under center is technically spiking to stop the game clock and save time.

Let's dissect "player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time"

Like, in order to legally stop the clock, it has to be running. If the game clock isn't running...then any spike attempt would be be for any reason other than to stop the clock, correct? Which would then not be legal...right?

"To save time"

The clock was at 9. It would stay at 9 until the snap...so there is no possible way for the spike to have been legal, per Line 3.

You are adding an interpretation that is not included in the rules. Once the ball is snapped, the game clock is running. Therefore, a spike of the ball would be to save time.

The refs ****ed it up much the same as they ****ed up most of the game today.

No.

Once the ball is snapped, the QB must throw to a receiver or get outside the pocket and throw at the LOS or it's IG.

PERIOD.

A player can't spike off a dead clock.

A player can't spike out the shotgun.

A player can't try to draw the defense offsides then spike the ball.

THE ONLY TIME A PLAYER CAN SPIKE THE BALL :.

Per item 3:

"player under center is permitted to stop the game clock legally to save time"


If the GAME clock isn't running DURING THE SNAP, then the QB is not legally stopping the clock to save time; e.g. intentional grounding is the correct call.

Mahomes had 25 seconds on the play clock, and the game clock wasn't running.

It's intentional grounding to spike in that scenario.

According to the rules.

No. Waste of effort.

That is what I keep saying. Makes zero sense. Rules are in place for a purpose. What is the purpose of this stupid obscure rule? I don't care if it is in the rule book. I want to know why?

Per what rule?

Where is the rule that states intentional grounding can be committed without pressure on the QB?

That rule MUST exist in order for an intentional grounding call to be levied on that play.

A.R. 8.90 INTENTIONAL GROUNDING—SPIKE TO CONSUME TIME First-and-10 on B30. The game clock is stopped with six seconds left in the first half. QBA1 takes the snap and immediately spikes the ball into the ground to take one second off the clock so that a field-goal attempt will run out the clock. Ruling: Half over. Intentional grounding and a 10-second runoff. A QB can only spike the ball to stop a running game clock. An attempt to take time off the clock is intentional grounding.

This is an approved ruling, so it seems it is in a rulw book. However I don't think the utilization of this ruling today was in the spirit of the initial rule. It seems like a team spiked the ball to run time off the clock so that the time would expire during the ensuing field-goal

Um...all rules in the NFL are interpreted, not enforced.

Doesn't everyone know that by now?

Do you not understand that QB pressure must exist for intentional grounding to be called?

Or are you just being obtuse?

I understand that the ****ing clock has to be running AT THE SNAP for it to be a legal spike, pressure or not.

I have deductive logic and cognitive reasoning that tell me that if a QB can ONLY spike to stop a running game clock...and if said game clock isn't running at the snap...then said QB better throw at a receiver or get out the pocket and throw toward the LOS, because an NFL officiating crew will call it intentional grounding.

I understand that much.

If this is the rules then it's clear.

Where did you get this? I've had a very hard time finding the full rule book online. Just the abbreviated one for fans.

What the **** is this even from?

It's not in the goddamn official rulebook site.

Where is the rule that says this? As I've mentioned, you are adding your interpretation (which appears to be the same as the NFL), but if this is going to be how the league interprets the rule, it should be clear in writing.

Nowhere in the rule does it state "if the game clock is not running before the snap then the QB cannot spike the ball to stop the clock.

It does say "It is a foul for intentional grounding if a passer, facing an imminent loss of yardage because of pressure from the defense, throws a forward pass without a realistic chance of completion. A realistic chance of completion is defined as a pass that is thrown in the direction of and lands in the vicinity of an originally eligible receiver."

And they do include "Item 4. Delayed Spike. A passer, after delaying his passing action for strategic purposes, is prohibited from throwing the ball to the ground in front of him, even though he is under no pressure from defensive rusher(s)."

Item 4 again shows that in order for Grounding to be called, a QB must have pressure from a defensive rusher. Unless there is clear writing in the rule that says otherwise....and there is not clear writing in the rule.

So you are willfully ignorant of the fact that QB pressure must exist for such a call.

Huh! Amazing.

Lol football zebra's uses Clay's tweet. Clay have you seen this? http://www.footballzebras.com/2018/1...ek-9-liveblog/

https://24liveblog.tradingfront.cn/e...506_889341.jpg

Yeah that's pretty clear. I guess this Casebook isn't really available online?

See my post above. There is something called a Casebook - which I have never seen online. Just the abridged rulebook they release for fans.

Well, that's clear then.

The NFL should put the the ****ing CASEBOOK online, then.

****ing jackholes.

You must be willfully ignorant that BEFORE WE GET TO NOT HAVING PRESSURE, the QB :

1. HAS TO BE UNDER CENTER

AND

2. MUST SPIKE TO STOP THE CLOCK

Yes it was absolutely intentional grounding.

Now if this is real, that is clear writing stating where they got their ruling and I would say they were correct. A provision should be included on the rules site, but if this is something that NFL teams are provided then this was handled correctly.

But wait. Mahomes wasn't attempting to take time off the clock.

What does 8.91 say? That seems to be more relevant.

I know I've seen stuff like that (cases with associated rulings) before, but no clue if they make it easy to find.

That's wrong, actually.

The very FIRST stipulation for intentional grounding is QB pressure.

It's the first sentence!!!! HA!!!

HA!!!!

It is. The source I found it from had the incorrect ruling number.

It is actually A.R. 8.97

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...ttkeorBIEN0ueL

It seems that the call is correct, but doesn't seem to be in the spirit of the intent of the rule

NOT intentional grounding. There's virtually no difference between out of bounds and what Mahomes did.

ROFL