Ridiculous.

You're throwing out garbage, Mecca. I saw Cassel make play action fakes (you know, after taking a snap from center?) and look at more than one receiver.

That's a little early, he's been more productive than a lot of WR's through their first 2 years.

Would you like to look at how wide his shotgun to center splits are and how later in the year when everyone says he got better he became a nearly exclusively shotgun passing QB?

We can talk all of his positives but we have to talk negatives too. He has many things to work on to be what people want him to be.

"That's a baaaad newbie"!

After 2 years the most productive Chiefs draft pick at WR in 20 years...

There are some very good WR's that did jack squat through their first 2 years. It's very early to label Bowe that way, he's still better than any WR we've had in years though all of our WR's during the Vermiel era were total balls...and the ones before that were even worse.

If he can just make more of those "clutch" receptions, the kind where everyone is holding their breath for when it really, really matters, I think people will get off his ass some and give him some space.

Look, it was garbage. When you say he was a one-read quarterback you're reducing him to shit. AND I WON'T STAND FOR IT!

He has looked awesome enough to carry a clip board for his College Career...and most of his pro career too.

If Brady did not get hurt last year there is no way Cassell isn't your local State Farm Salesman answering your call when you get in your next car crash.

Odom is productive too. Very inconsistent though.

Well, way to make an irrelevant post.

It really doesn't matter who you're dropping the n00b card on in this conversation 'cause it's just as fuggen ig-nert a post either way...

Look now, for the first half of him playing, he took a ton of sacks because he'd look at his first guy sometimes to the 2nd guy and if they weren't there he was going to run or take the sack and yes he looked at the rush. I would think anyone that hadn't played in as long as him would look at the rush.

I even gave him a break saying his sack numbers are higher than they should be because he wouldn't take risks because he was told not to. The same reason I think he had a good INT number he took the sacks instead of risking a pick because he was told not to turn it over. It probably contributes to why some of us think he holds the ball to long, he may not even do that but was going on what he was told to do.

He has a lot to prove a lot of his huge issue should improve with playing time but I do think he'll throw more picks this year because of the difference in talent and I think he'll take more chances.

That's a Dr. Cox quote you drunkard; keep up!:cuss::D

Why are you completely ignoring the fact that the Patriots couldn't pass block for shit the first half of the year?

This is honestly a non-issue.

They couldn't pass block because he is completely different than Brady. Brady would change plays and have the ball out in about 3 seconds, no one would expect Cassel to do that and they were playing a different type of offense.

With Brady it was, big plays score a lot of points QB is out best player all of that.

With Cassel it was we have talent if you do enough and don't screw up we can still win a lot of games. And it's what they should of done with a guy who hadn't played in so long.

NE's line isn't awesome or bad, a lot of how they had looked in previous years had to do with the way Brady plays. Hell they ran the hell out of the ball this past year.

The Chiefs I feel will let Cassel do his thing and not tell him not to take chances and all of that that's why I think his pick numbers will increase it's really only logical.

Why are you completely ignoring the fact that the Chiefs line sucks even more balls than the Pats 2008 line?

Debatable, as we've already discussed.

The Chiefs gave up fewer sacks last year for sure.

Best EVAR in KC.

I'm not going to take the time to post screen caps.

Here's Taylor: http://www.pro-football-reference.co...Ot00.htm?redir

Here's Bowe:

Garbage. They couldn't pass block because the ****ing linemen got BEAT.

Cassel should NOT be penalized for not being Tom Brady.

It has a lot to do with it, most of their line has been playing with Brady for their entire pro careers. A lot of their system is set up around Brady...and Brady was to the point where he made excessively fast reads and had the ball out in a hurry.

Their line isn't great but they make the system work because of Tom Brady.

We'll know a lot about Cassel pretty early on because those teams are going to hit him.

Cassel is easily twice as mobile as Brady which is why I scratch my chin when I see the sack totals...

At espn, they have a player page where it splits his stats up to scenarios that is very usefull. I would go there and post a link, but I am posting on the road from my instinct phone and espn loads slowly and Im lazy. Im sure someone will do so from their homebase. Especially after the final line of this post!

iirc he took about 30 sacks in the first 8 games and 17 in the last 8 (5 of which came against pittsburg...again iirc).

His comp % dropped every quarter as well.

His rating dropped 20 points in the 4th quarter

his passes over 30 yards were complete dogshit

he wasnt good AT ALL from under center.

the guy definatly has the tools to make it and the work ethic to as well, but he is far from a finished product.

Wanna hear a kinda crazy and unbelievable stat?

Thigpen went 10td/0int while under center!

The idea that the Pats line is good is ****ing hog$#it.

The exact same line that ended Bledsoe's career in NE is the same line Brady rode to a Lombardi.

Brady gets rid of the ball quick. He reads the field unbelievably well. He is decisive.

His line, and has for years, sucks...

Actually being mobile and getting sacked aren't really things that become exclusive.

Brady feels pressure and moves in the pocket and makes quick reads and gets the ball out in a hurry. He has a knack for just moving a few steps and avoiding rushers.

There are mobile QB's who take more sacks because they have a tendency to look at the rush or start running around and still get tackled behind the line.

Being mobile is nice but it doesn't mean you'll take less sacks.

Generally speaking the speed of your reads, release and your pocket presence are what goes into your sack totals.

This cannot be defined by a stat sheet.

Cassel threw some VERY NICE passes over 30 yards. Beautiful ones. Shit you see Pro Bowl quarterbacks make...some were caught, some were dropped.

Hey, I hope he turns the corner big time this year, I really do. He's got the tools, no question.

If you can get the ball to him with precise timing, allowing him to build momentum on the intermediate and slightly longer routes, his YAC will be off the ****ing charts due to that monster frame w/speed of his.

You bring up Otis Taylor. I'd like to see him in the Hall, and I'd like to see the second coming of Mack Lee Hill on this team. All I've got is old footage and a few interviews, but I really like the way he played and carried himself.

That guy was special.

Which is why as I said Brady makes their line. Considering they've all been playing their entire careers with him they get use to how fast the ball is going to come out etc.

Hey, that's who he reminds me of...

Well, for being "The Conclusion" of the Cassel Chronicles, we sure as hell haven't reached one!ROFL

If Bradley and Engram do their jobs effectively, Bowe will have a 1300/10 year, if teams are allowed to double Bowe without paying for it, it will be a very long year.

The "pistol" formation was utilized to help LJ in his pass blocking and it was quite effective, I bet we see it frequently during the upcoming year to keep defenses quessing.

It sounds like the basis for the entire offense, starting off anyway...

No.

Vick was a runner.

Gannon was a passer who was very good at running.

...some were overthrown by 7+ yards....


just sayin

3-26 means alot of bad things combined

Thigpen was almost three times more productive on similar throws.

So?

So, its nice to have two qbs that have team attitudes that complement each other. Maybe the competition from each other over the next two years provides us with a franchise pro bowl qb by the time its all said and done.

Ya know another interesting fact is that back in 2001, the Patriots had just signed Bledsoe to a 100 million dollar contract when Brady took over during the year because Parcells and the Parcells type (BB) dont give a **** bout no money, they want the best shot qt winning.

I for one hope that Cassel never slips up and provides us with stability at the position for 10 or so years.

Actually, the Patriots O-Line was had the first of the season last year.

And they've never actually been more than servicable, but were made to look better than they are by Brady's incredible pocket awareness and uncanny ability to glide away from pressure in the pocket.

The Chiefs O-Line does suck, but the seperation between them and the Pats O-Line last year through the first half isn't nearly as stark as you believe.

Well at least it's nice to know that now we can go to sleep at night having already reached a conclusion about our QB before he's even taken a single snap as a Chief.

you stupid ignorant mother****er. name me one QB playing, not playing, hell on mother****ing madden 2008-09-10 anywhere that throws a perfectly tight beautiful pass EVERY TIME.

That's a hell of an out of context take on what he said.

have you done either? i have watched EVERY game from last year. most of the time moss was OVERTHROWN and appeared to be dogging it. go back run a search, i said this BEFORE the season was half over last year, BEFORE there was even ANY thought of us trading for cassel.

[KnoMo2724]Kyle Orton[/Homo2724].

:D

no it's not. they were talking about throws and ROR throws out the "are you telling me EVERY pass" bullshit.

ROFL thats good shit there

I admit I think it's pretty funny how it's somehow Moss' fault that Cassel was throwing deep balls to basically no one alot of the time.

Yes I've seen him play a bunch of one of my best friends is a Bills fan, cmon lets be serious here.

whos gives a shit if your friend is a bills fan. what does that have to do with it? he saw them twice last year? i WATCHED EVERY GAME. if moss isnt running full out it would make perfect sense that the ball was overthrown, again look back i said the same things in the middle of last season

Why don't we discuss something a little more important than his ****ing deep ball.

Like his hugely wide shotgun and under center splits, frankly those stats say he sucks from center, that is a huge issue that he has to work on.

I don't see why pointing out flaws that he has to improve upon gets some kind of venomous reaction. He's not a top QB right now obviously he has flaws he has to work on, calm the hell down.

i could give a shit about the splits, they were due IMO to the fact that whhen he had a 5-7 step drop the DEs were hitting him when his back foot hit the ground. all one has to do is watch the jets games. several times cassel hit his back foot and stepped up immediately only to have both DEs run right into one another. hell the announcers were even laughing about it by the end of the game.

and to say he's not a top qb right now is funny shit. where did he rank among Qbs last year?

Jason thinks Matt Cassel is a franchise top 5 in the league QB apparently....Now that is funny shit.

I also think that, unless a rookie QB or first year starter, has a really strong running game to support him, they'll all work better from the shotgun than they do under center.

It's the most difficult position to learn and excel at in football.

As time passes and a QB gets more comfortable and his game becomes more instinctive, he'll improve under center.

are you ****ing stupid? why make shit up? i never said anything remotely close to that. i actually think he is a top 10 though. where did he rank last year again?

I wouldn't go that far, but I think he does have some potential.

He's not a top 10 QB....which even still he's not an elite QB which means he has flaws to work on.

I don't get why you are flipping the **** out when someone says he has things to work on. You'd think the man has no flaws the way you defend everything about him.

I hope you are right. I'm on board and hope he does well. I hope Dwayne Bowe and Cassel develop a great relationship, that will be a nice highlight reel one day.

never said that either, you and others just say things that you have obviously read, not seen. and i would say that there are only about 2-3 ELITE level QBs in the game right now, and thats if brady comes back the same. so yeah top 10 is pretty ****ing good.

I wouldn't put him in the top 10 because frankly 1 year isn't a career or enough to put him ahead of consistent year in and year out performers.

ROFL what the **** ever man, and i bet you still would call carson palmer a franchise top 10 qb right? nevermind you probably wont admit to it now that i've asked

again where did he rank among QBs last year? top 10? then yeah he's a top 10 QB as of right now.

Out of curiosity, who would be your top 10 QBs?

Carson Palmer has a long line of years to judge his performance on and he's not a top 10 QB right now either.

He has to show he's back from his elbow issue.

I admit I think it's hilarious how Jason is flipping out over having a logical opinion on this.

hey man i'm not "flipping out" over anything. and palmer has had 2 of the BEST WRs on the field with him throughout his career how can he be considered top 10? oh i forgot that kind of thing only works when YOU use it against a player on our team.

As of today...this is in no particular order because that would take me longer to rank them the top 10 QB's in the league are..

Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Phillip Rivers
Ben Roethlisberger
Donovan McNabb
Drew Brees
Eli Manning
Jay Cutler
Kurt Warner
Tony Romo

I put Romo in there at the bottom aswell as Warner because right now Warner is playing extremely well. Both of those guys could easily fall out. If Matt Ryan shows really the same things he did last year he'll easily jump on the list but I don't like to put 1 year players at QB in the top 10 because they haven't shown year to year consistency.

If Palmer shows he's back to form after his injury he can jump in Aaron Rodgers I think is close too he had a very good year last year but 1 year thing, I think Cassel has a good argument to go in the 10-15 range with something to prove.

Manning has only had 2 of the best WR's in the league his entire career, guess we better not count him.

I agree completely with this.

I have a real problem with Romo.

He has put up some good numbers, but he has a propensity to disappear in second half of games, and second half of seasons, and hasn't taken on the mantle of leadership in Dallas.

I'd put Matt Hasselbeck ahead of him, even though he missed about half a season with injury last year.

Hasselbeck has a bad back I have a hard time believing he'll ever be the same player again. I think Romo will have a better year this year but he's obviously at the bottom of the top 10.

I hope you're right. But for the short time that we saw Trent in his prime... it's not likely. I guess he could have a more successful career than Trent as far as performance longevity, but that remains to be seen.

No.

I just can't put a guy that I think lacks mental toughness and leadership in any top 10 QB list.

Hasselbeck is there right now until he proves otherwise, and he'll be replaced shortly by the likes of Matt Ryan or Aaron Rogers.

hey man i guess you cant comprehend sarcasm, you are the one thats uses "cassel looks good because he threw to moss and welker". thats YOUR argument against him not mine, but like i said that argument only works when YOU want it to huh?

i dont agree with romo or eli manning.

Jason calling me names, per usual.

Oh god here it comes Jason is going to argue that Cassel is better than Eli Manning.

i edited it, and that IS NOT usual for me. you kn the other hand... and i will argue that eli manning isnt a top 10 QB.

Who's better?

I'm not putting a 1 year starter in the top 10 at QB to many guys have flamed out for me to do that.

Eli has actually shown pretty significant improvement I think he's earned that a spot in the top 10.

He is now, He's got to be. (manning that is)

2284 att. 1276 comp 55.9% 14623 yards 6.4 avg 98 td 74 int 76.1 rating career


WOW this guy is a top 10 qb?

why? because he won a SB?

Well, not a lot of good quarterbacks to select from right now. Career rating yes, not so good. He was a late bloomer

He showed extreme improvement from the middle of their bowl year and it continued through last year.

It's not about his career stats he's really become a much better player over the last 2 seasons. Before that he was a disappointment.