Carl Peterson brought in Ty Law. He pushed for him from the beginning. As soon as his skills eroded, he was gone and youth was in. Herm's decision again to go young.

Also, whoever was talking about dismantling a team, and teams doing that every year in the draft...not like what we did this season. KC started rookies at LT, CB, CB, DT, Nickel CB, and played second year players at DE, DT, amongst other positions. When you "dismantle" a team, it's done like Herm did it.

Is Gregg Williams available?

anybody but GW. please lord! anyone but GW.

I heard Greg Robinson just got caanned!!!!!! lol

my opinion was that he got saddled with the IDEA - carl's idea - to "stay competative" one more year. Once he knew that he had to try and find some vets that would service his needs, ie - law et al.

Gunther belongs in KC forever.

You are correct. Which is also the same reason why Solari was made an Offensive Coordinator, and the same offense (that Saunders ran) was kept. Not because Herm was a fan of it, but because Carl Peterson was.

Yes. He'd make a fine steely-eyed, foul-mouthed towlboy.

He is a VERY good DC... and a crummy HC... so why NO GW?

For another decade? I don't know of anybody who was saying that. Way to move the goalposts....

So Herm has sold you, this is not his fault either?

Ok, but if Ty Law had gotten 10 interceptions for the Chiefs, instead of falling on his ass every time he needed to make a play, Herm would have given Carl credit for aquiring Ty Law, right?

ROFLROFLROFL I remember that arogant weasel bragging about bringing Ty Law into KC!

YOU CAN NOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!!! If he is going to take the credit, he has to take the blame.

Gunther should replace Bob Gretz. I'd be addicted to reading his propagunda.

first off, read all my posts before you decide you understand my opinion. Second I just said that it seems to me Carl stopped Herm from doing what herm wanted to do. IF that is true then once Carls tells Herm he has to get some Vets, why wouldn't Herm want to try and do his best at getting a seasoned vet. Law seemed like a good signing to many of us, as a stop gap. We needed help at that position and Carl wasn't going to let Herm go for the overhaul.

It's a possible scenerio and a believable scenerio. I don't know what exactly happened behind closed doors, but I guess I should be humbled to be having a conversation with someone who obviously must have been there.

Then what does this mean....Originally Posted by KC Fish
Sure.............




That's how you replied, when I said I knew he was a stop-gap. Sure sounds like you are implying, I'm wrong and that the masses, (you seem to be including yourself in with that train of thought), thought Law would be around for quite some time-I obviously didn't. Please tell me how I'm wrong about that.

Pardon me for being a Gunther apologist. While I too am disappointed in his defenses in his second stint, I still can't forget his defenses in his first stint. This article is a good recap of those years, which we all long to see again, and who better to bring those days back then the man who did it the first time.

Who Needs Offense With Chiefs' Defense?

By THOMAS GEORGE
Published: September 10, 1996

The Chiefs have the type of defense that can carry an offense. The Chiefs have the type of defense that can propel Kansas City into Super Bowl XXXI.

This Kansas City defense returns each starter from a unit that finished second league-wide in defense a year ago. They can rock you up the middle, catch you around the end and sprint with you downfield. They knock the ball loose. They catch it. They even score with it, sometimes more than the opponent's offense.

That was the case here on Sunday. Chiefs defense 9, Oakland Raiders offense 3. That was the subplot of Kansas City's 19-3 victory over the Raiders at Arrowhead Stadium, Kansas City's seventh straight over Oakland.

The Chiefs blocked a field goal, forced two turnovers, made two sacks, scored a safety and returned a fumble 80 yards for a touchdown. This was hot stuff. This was like watching cheese melt on a grill. They made the Raiders' offense look gooey and sticky, especially near the Chiefs' goal line.

Every defense needs a little help from its offense. In recent seasons, the Chiefs' offense has not done its part, which is why Kansas City has consistently been bounced early in the playoffs. While the quarterback, Steve Bono, was shaky on Sunday, the offense contributed with a running game that featured 31 rushing attempts. Kansas City is now 50-2 in the 90's when it runs 30 or more times in a game. Included in that streak is a string of 31 consecutive victories. When Kansas City can run it, coupled with this defense, this team is nearly unbeatable.

There were other ways the Chiefs' offense helped the defense. Art Shell, the Raiders' Hall of Fame tackle, used to be the Raiders head coach. He is the Chiefs' offensive line coach now.

''Art came into the defensive linemen's meeting last week and he sat down with us and told us each of their offensive linemen's strengths and weaknesses,'' said Chiefs end Neil Smith. ''That helps to hear it coming from their former coach. It helps coming from a former player. Art wants us to win and he wants to beat the Raiders. There is still some bitterness there, just like in the Kansas City-Oakland rivalry.''

Score another one for Shell. He is 3-0 now versus the Raiders. Score another one for Marcus Allen. The former Raiders running back is now 7-0 versus his old team. Score another one for the Chiefs' defense. It has scored a touchdown in each of the last four Raiders games.

This Chiefs' defense does not have a weak link.

Peek at the line. From left to right, it is Smith, Joe Phillips, Dan Saleaumua and Vaughn Booker. Smith is the most talented, Saleaumua the most gritty.

Peek at the linebackers: Derrick Thomas, Tracy Simien and Anthony Davis. Thomas gained both sacks and was responsible for the Chiefs' safety when he knocked Raiders quarterback Billy Joe Hobert silly in the end zone in the fourth quarter for the game's final points. Simien gained a second-quarter interception. Booker is a rock to block -- he is 6 feet 5 inches and weighs 293 pounds.

Peek at the secondary. It is James Hasty and Dale Carter at the corners and Mark Collins and Brian Washington at the safety position. Hasty is one of the stronger cornerbacks around (207 pounds), but he moves like a running back. Carter is a supreme talent. Collins covers as much ground as any free safety in the league and Washington (210 pounds) packs a punch at strong safety.

It was the Thomas-Hasty combination that ultimately foiled the Raiders. Opening the second half, after the Raiders had driven from their 24 to the Chiefs' 5, Thomas steamed around the Raiders left end and crushed Hobert. Hasty grabbed the loose ball and sped 80 yards for a touchdown, turning a potential tying Raiders score into a 14-0 Chiefs lead.

Take a strong defense and toss in a spectacular player and you have the makings of something special. That is the Chiefs' defense, positioned by the creative coordinator Gunther Cunningham. That is Thomas. In two games he has four sacks. He has career marks of 19 multiple sack games now, 89 sacks and 35 forced fumbles.

jesus christ this fan base can just not let go of failure

40 years of programming is harder to break than I expected, I've never seen so many fans CLING to half-ass coaching in my life.

This started with HemiEd stating Herm brought in Ty Law, meaning that in hindsight it was a bad decision. I stated that the Law signing wasn't a bad signing at the time and many posters were happy with that. Some were downright ecstatic with the idea. There were posts claiming Law/Surtain would be the best CB pair in the NFL.

You replied, "but by the time Herm got Law to come play here, many knew Law was stop-gap at best." Which isn't true. Very few if any thought Law was going to decline so quickly. This place was hysteria with Law threads and how it was going to dramatically improve our defense. That's what my "Sure" response was directed at.

Then you come back with "Yea, everybody KNEW a 38 year old cornerback was the future for another decade, right?" Well nobody said anything about being the future for a decade. The argument was whether the Law signing was a bad move and attributable to Herm, and you turned it into "Well if you thought he'd be here for a decade you were stupid."

If that wasn't your intention then I apologize, but the way it looked, you were changing the parameters of the argument along the way.

Fair enough- I was wondering where all that came from-now I know you weren't basing everything directed at me, but rather the past comments of many individuals. Thanks for clearing that up.

give Gun some pie
and send his ass packing

the new GM will have alot of say....I"m just saying.

Just bring in Greg Robinson and be done with it.

JJ want a quick tip, you could have called defensive plays for that defense in 96 anyone could have, that personnel anyone could coordinate it. Give any fool 2 pass rushers and 2 lock down corners and you can basically do whatever the hell you want.

Marty had 2 pass rushers and 2 lock down corners during his entire time in KC. The D was its best with Gunther at the helm. Do you remember Dave Adolph? The D took a step back under him. I was thrilled to see him leave. Then Gun came in and replaced him and took the D to another level.

If you go look at the rankings Guns D's were inconsistent from year to year, even with all that talent.

Back it up with stats, because I don't remember his defenses ever being inconsistent.

Point me to where there are stats from the 90s.

Ron Rivera or Crenel would be solid.

Whoever it is... i say we chip in and put him up in a Holiday Inn Express every Saturday night of the season.

Here's the deal, though.

Marty has been a head coach for three different teams where he brought a star-studded defense. THREE. In each of those teams, the team he left collapsed soon after he left.

Moral of the story? Marty is a damn good defensive coach and he's been a damn good defensive coach with AND without Gunther. Marty coached well without Gunther, but Gunther has yet to coach well without Marty.

Seems pretty obvious that Gunther was piggy-backing off the coattails of Marty.

I agree 100% and have thought that for a long time even when gun was hired as HC.

Are you really defending Gunther?

1995 Chiefs - 2nd overall defense
1996 Chiefs - 18th overall defense
1997 Chiefs - 11th overall defense
1998 Chiefs - 9th overall defense

it would seem so :thumb:

HOW IN THE HELL COULD IT SET US BACK?

We are running a gimmick offense and have the 32nd ranked defense.

What are we going to have next year? 1 win, zero wins? Would that be a setback?

It truly amazes me that people actually defend this loser on a daily basis.

Sorry CC, but if you thought this was the first year of the rebuild...........not the case

Can you prove this, or just off of one quote off of hard knocks that is edited to make drama?

God, WTF.........Herm Wanted Law......BAD, he pushed for him

Pete Jenkins
Defensive Line Coach


With 34 years of experience tutoring quality defensive lines on the collegiate level, Pete Jenkins was added to the Eagles coaching staff in 2006. For the 66-year-old Jenkins, this is his first NFL coaching stint. Jenkins had retired to Santa Rosa Beach, FL, in 2002 after a second tour of duty as the defensive line coach at LSU.

The Eagles defensive line has ranked 4th in the NFL in sacks during each of the last two seasons (31 in 2006 and 30 in 2007). Under Jenkins' tutelage, DE Trent Cole has flourished, earning his first career Pro Bowl berth after a 12.5-sack, 103-tackle season. Additionally, Cole and DT Mike Patterson (114) each eclipsed the 100-tackle mark, becoming the first Eagles defensive line pair to do so since 1991 (Jerome Brown, Clyde Simmons, Reggie White, and Mike Pitts). The defensive line also contributed heavily to the NFL's 7th-ranked rushing defense (95.8 yards per game and 3.8 yards per carry).

Throughout his career, Jenkins has coached 17 All-SEC performers and over 30 linemen who have gone on to play in the NFL, including Leonard Marshall, Henry Thomas, Kendrick Allen, Marcus Spears and Jarvis Green at LSU, David Galloway at Florida, Kevin Henry at Mississippi State, and Leonardo Carson at Auburn. In fact, 12 of his defensive lineman were active on NFL rosters in 1992.

Eagles offensive line coach Juan Castillo, who often visited Jenkins during his tenure at LSU, learned many of his coaching techniques from him.

"I thought I was a pretty good line coach 'til I met him," said Castillo. "What a coach. That's where it all started for me as far as being a teacher. Coach Jenkins is an excellent teacher and fundamentals are so important for him."

Jenkins' second stint with LSU was highlighted with an SEC Championship in 2001, as the team went 10-3 and earned a Sugar Bowl victory over Illinois. In all, Jenkins has been a part of five SEC Championship squads (four with LSU in 1984, 1986, 1988 and 2001 and one with Auburn in 1997) and 21 postseason bowl games during his career.

Jenkins originally broke into the college ranks as the defensive coordinator for Troy State in 1968 when Troy won the NAIA national championship. He then moved to South Carolina for four seasons and Southern Mississippi for three years before embarking on one-year stops at Oklahoma State and Florida. Jenkins arrived at LSU in 1980 and spent 11 years there serving as a defensive line coach, defensive coordinator and assistant head coach. He then worked four years at Mississippi State and five at Auburn before rejoining LSU under head coach Nick Saban.


http://www.philadelphiaeagles.com/te...asp?coach_id=6

If the San Diego game was the straw that broke the Carl's back, then should do the same thing for Herman ****ing Edwards.

There have been three games, the Jets, the Bucs, and this last game, that the Chiefs had the chance to win, and getting out coached in the second half was directly responsible for those losses.

Herman ****ing Edwards is a guy that's going to redefine mediocrity if given the chance.

Why the **** anyone would argue that he should be retained for another season is a mystery.

i think we Clark decides to grow some balls and totally clean house. I think that Gaily will stay but i think Gunth is gone. I think we decide to pay big money for Rex Ryan, and bring back Bill Cowher as head coach. How great would that be?

Gailey gets shitcanned, too. They ALL GO.

i like Gailey, he has some good plays. But im also with you i dont know if we can have an offense that is played in college.

It's okay to run the spread-alot of teams have it in their playbooks, but it can't be a staple, because it doesn't work well in the red zone. Also, I just believe to do this right, the HEAD COACH should be allowed to DECIDE on who he wants to coach under him. Forcing Gailey or any other coach on somebody is the wrong way to go about things.

Take Romeo. Please.

yes sir....the spread gets point in the first half and stopped in the second half of a game. Too gimicky

Scott Pioli as GM, Josh McDaniels as Head Coach and Romeo Crennel as defensive coordinator...

I want the Chiefs to be New England West

Good idea if you can figure out a way to clone Belichick. Otherwise I doubt that any other combination would work.

Let me guess.

Matt Cassell at QB, right?

Absolutely... even without having the caliber of WRs such as Randy Moss and Wes Welker, Cassel would be a good fit in Josh McDaniels offense, wherever McDaniels ends up.

The Cassel fit with the Josh McDaniels offense is similar to how well Trent Green fit with the Al Saunders/Dick Vermeil offense.

The biggest difference between Trent Green/Dick Vermeil and Matt Cassel/Josh McDaniels would be the fact Trent Green was 30 going on 31 years old when he was traded to the Chiefs and Vermeil was 64 going on 65 when he was hired by the Chiefs.

Matt Cassel is 26 going on 27 years old next May and Josh McDaniels is 32 going on 33 years old next April... the Cassel/McDaniels combo would have a much longer shelf life.

This.

What do you have against Bush?

No way in hell I want Cassell.
Without those receivers, he'd be about as effective as Scott Mitchell.

His arm strength isn't even up to Trent Green.

You can't succeed with a QB as limited as Cassell unless you have the rest of the offense in place.

I laughed at him for saying it-now I'll laugh at you.ROFL Gunther is NOT STAYING. Herm is NOT STAYING. Sorry, Frankie, but why can't you see-these coaches are all gone-they have not lived up to their end of the bargain-time to move on from this disaster.

FYI: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/kan/

This is a myth. Herm is an EXCEPTIONAL secondary coach...he's a horrible head coach and probably an average to BAD defensive coordinator. I've never found any evidence to support a sustained dominance by defenses that Herm has been the primary builder of said defense. He's living off of Kiffin and Dungy's reputation. Period.

If Cowher is brought in, I could see Gailey staying since they were together in Pittsburgh.

And if that's the case, possibly Haslett as DC since he also worked under Cowher.

cause i wanna be able to enjoy the BB.