I would expect the Chiefs have a lot of inside knowledge on his medical condition. It will be telling if they attempt to resign him. I would not be surprised either way. I think it was very optimistic that he would be able to play at a high level ony 12 months removed from a ACL, without an offseason/a lot of parctice reps...Now by this summer he probably hits maximum improvement and he will be what he will be, will that be good enough or not,,

But I think he has a better shot being a average starting LT then moving Taylor who has been a average RT for his whole career at best and not expecting any drop off from going from RT to LT

Cap keeps rising and there are more teams with cap space than there are good players available.

We'd be banking on a surplus of $$$ in the system and teams that aren't able to convince good players to take it from them.

So you trade Smith to them and they know they're overpaying by 20% for the player based on his likely market value, but they can't get a player that's at/near pro bowl quality to sign with them for that money anyway.

I don't think he's a must-have guy, but he's probably the best OG that may be available this offseason. There's value in that.

Oh yeah sure if we can do that.

I just don't want any part of paying him if we're not gonna change our run blocking/pass system. And we won't, so doesn't matter.

Not sure how the Chiefs can tag him and incure a 25 million cap hit. Your hoping someone will trade for him at a APY over what his market value will be,,,just not seeing it. No one will tip their hand because they are likely waiting until he hits FA's or the Chiefs pull the trigger. Guessing they know they can get him at a lot lower cap hit if he hits FA's. They do not have to waste any resources. It would be a huge gamble to tag him. IT would also mean your out on Free Agents until you trade him if your lucky.

Could I get Zach Martin to play RG for 8 million dollars? If so...I'd do that.

Bring back Kyle Long!!!

I would also keep Suamatia at LT and give him the offseason and see what happens.

With the cap and things we've got coming up.....we really need that to work out cheaply for a few years.

This was my original notion and I'm coming back around to it after reading you guys hammer on it.

Signing a guy like Jaylon Moore from SF gives you solid competition at a fair price and he's not an aged broke dick. Whoever loses the battle at LT could easily slide to LG next year when Thuney is gone. And I think you can hedge some by taking a guy like Anthony Belton in round 2 or 3 and letting him develop too.

That, of course, is dependent on Andy Reid. He has historically been patient in developing OL on the field but the success and the crushing pressure of the 3-peat I think got him away from it. The right move was to keep Suamataia on the field developing and giving him help from TEs and RBs with chips as needed but we didn't do that. We need to do that with someone, even the best rookie from this class won't be ready to sit out on an island like we've seen him employ of late. The only OT in FA I'd trust on an island is Ronnie Stanley. So, either way, it has to get back to the basics here .

With cap going up so much I'm warming up to the idea of trading for Tyreek and Terron Armstead. Phins will probably try and start their young LT this year and Armstead should be available as a great stop gap LT for us.

https://preview.redd.it/pff-highest-...=webp&d17f2f4f

Membou has always screamed guard to me. And him going in the top 15 shows how much lack of depth at tackle there is this year.

Would be the ideal situation if he can handle the position. But bottom line the team can not miss on Morris and Suamatia. One of them needs to start somewhere on the OL. It would be a homerun if one can handle LT at above average level.

a 33-year old tackle who has missed 21 games in 4 years ROFLROFLROFLROFL

Is this Carl Peterson's account?

Well goddamn folks.

If only there were a slew of 26 year old pro bowl caliber LTs who never miss games.

Fellas, you're gonna have to deal with mediocre, overpaid, injury prone or some combination of ALL of the above at LT.

There ARE no perfect solutions. None. Anywhere.

Because teams that have them don't give them up.

You're welcome to sit on the sideline and tell us all how great Joe Thuney's gonna be at LT. You were just all over that shit, weren't ya?

I think he might be a RT and a pretty good one. At least for most offenses.

And he does seem well suited to be an outstanding guard. Now that those cost $20 million for a top 10 model, you might as well start considering them in the 1st round (I would not, I don't think top 10 models are strictly necessary).

But Membou seems awfully save to be a very good player at this level even if he doesn't end up staying at OT.

The Chiefs do not need to be messing with a short-term solution that might not even work.

Pay Cam Robinson or Ronnie Stanley or the kid from SF.

You folks will shit on Jaylon Moore every chance you get. Dude's started about a 1/2 dozen games over the last 4 years, is a former 5th round pick and he DOESN'T qualify as a 'solution that might not even work'? Lord.

Stanley's health history is no better/worse than Armstead's and of late, Armstead has been better than Stanley.

And you're WAY late to the party on Cam Robinson but boy am I going to get a kick out of watching that guy get vivisected every time Mahomes gets hit. Because he's GONNA get hit.

"For $21 million/yr he should be a brick !@#$ing wall out there!!!"

Yeah - just keep acting like there's some obvious right answer, chief. You typically cover yourself in glory when you pull that shit.

None of them are 33. NO WAY we should be trading assets for a ****ing 33 year old. Are you ****ed in the head?

Yes, I realize there are no perfect solutions. We don't need perfect. We need 2022 Orlando Brown level play, with less fat. We're good with those options. I'm not good with someone who is about ready to retire.

We gave a 2nd for Brown, got two good years out of him and then let him go.

We gave assets for 2 years of a guy and ultimately got our value worth from the exchange.

If Armstead can be had for a 2nd day pick and plays the 13-15 games/yr he's played recently and at the level he's played it recently, that answer is fine even if its only 2 or 3 more years.

And with it, you continue looking for longer term solutions.

You want to act like there's some easy button to push here and there just isn't. All of this is going to take some combination of things unless some bizarre Luka Doncic style trade falls out of the sky.

It ain't terribly likely.

This, all damn day long

There is no magic elixir

Cam Robinson and it’s not close

Knows the offense, isn’t a broke dick and is decent. Slightly better than Donovan Smith. Mahomes won back-to-back SB’s with OBJ and Smith both struggling. They were both top 5 in pressure % given up.

Robinson is not gonna get crucified like Thuney just did.

The problem is that it's absolutely going to have to be a balancing act.

You can focus on the best possible short-term solution available but it's going to almost certainly come at the expense of the long-term answer. I.e. you can target Armstead/Stanley and likely get a very strong (if intermittently unavailable) effort but with very little true long-term value.

Or you can focus on the long term and go through growing pains with Kingsley or a draft pick.

Or you shoot for the middle with someone like Jackson. You're trading some short term certainty for possible long-term stability. There's a good chance he's not as good as Stanley or Armstead now. But he's not as risky as Kingsley. You're also paying a lot more for it.

It's all about where you want to put your emphasis.

To haughtily act like any specific path forward is foolish is just typical Clay bullshit.

****ing guy has been wrong more than anyone on this board (primarily because he never shuts up) but never hesitates to act like he has all the answers.

Any answer here is going to be a matter of preference and an ability to get to 'yes'.

JFC how the **** is a 33-year old the best option LMAO

Asshole.

Armstead will be 34 this year.

No thanks

JFC even worse

Cam Robinson is 29

I'm on that shooting for the middle train

Veteran young or old
Suamataia breathing down his neck
Morris, Driskell, cheap young FA with upside

Throw them all in a blender and see who looks best, then go from there... finding these guys is usually more about patience, persistence, and a little in house luck than anything else

Damn, isn't that a pretty ****ing stiff price? Going to be honest, I'm not at all caught up on Armstead as a player but the mixed bag of talent and injury concerns seems to put him on par with Stanley and to a lesser extent Humphries. Is his contract structured to a point where it'd be advantageous for the Chiefs?

Mmm. Roughly 25 million over 2 years. If he'd be willing to play on that may not be the worst idea, but I really wouldn't be too keen to give up more than the later 3rd.

He's built a lot like Kelvin Beachum. A bit squatty but has longer arms and is just a good player. Actually, he has slightly longer arms and is a bit heavier. Most everyone at the Senior Bowl said he's staying at RT in the NFL. I can see it. I don't think he'll move to LT but who knows. Beachum played 7 of his 13 seasons at LT.

Oh really!? Where did you read this?

Tells me they had some blinders on w/r/t Thuney at LT.

They weren't alone in that regard...

I think the best combination of outcomes is to go short AND long.

And I think we went long with Kingsley. And could still continue doing the same over the next year or two.

Which means that you can focus on the NOW this off-season. If that means that Stanley comes at a reasonable number, he's STILL only being signed as a 2-3 year option in all probability. Or Armstead. Or hell, if Noteboom ends up being the best you can do.

Because I see no reason to doubt at all that over the next 2 seasons, Stanley and/or Armstead will be the absolute best player reasonably available to us at that position.

Anybody else is some willingness to trade immediate productivity for long-term benefits. If you're signing Robinson, for instance, you're getting a lesser player for a longer period of time. And perhaps that has some merit.

But it doesn't mean that shooting short-term in FA with a different idea for the long-term is without merit either.

It's silly to just dismiss the possibility out of hand. There is absolutely a strong case to be made for maximizing the next 2 seasons while you still have Jones at a high level and McDuffie/Karlaftis at reasonably low cap hits.

And if that's the approach you take, Armstead or Stanley is a distinction without a difference.

Now if you take a look at Jackson's tape and decide that he's not just a product of easy assignments created by McVay's offense and that he presents both a viable long-term answer AND strong short-term answer -- cool, do that. Provided he doesn't extend prior to FA (and he might).

But now ain't the time to be closing doors.

Any of the options might not work. That's just a reality that everyone needs to get comfortable with.

Yeah - it is.

But by the time FA gets here, it might be one of the only remaining options available to us. And if that is the case, there's definite surplus value in the contract we'd be trading for -- $25 million for a guy who's been one of the 5 best LTs in football over the last several years is a damn bargain.

I'm not saying it's the only path forward. I'm saying it's one that absolutely should be considered.

But Clay's a ****ing halfwit and can't understand that sort of nuance.

Maybe he could even rebuild his confidence playing guard, and eventually plat OT again.

It's February, numb-nuts.

"Best" doesn't exist at the moment. We have no idea WHAT options will be available. There may be options out there we haven't considered. And several that we have considered may dry up before we get a chance to so much as make a phonecall.

You're the idiot operating in absolutes here.

I think playing OG could create some crutches and/or habits that simply get in the way of a successful transition back to OT.

If you want the best possible path to Kingsley at OT, I think the way to do it is have him playing OT. May not even be possible in the short term to find those reps for him, but I think you're more likely to end up with him at OG for the next 6-8 years than at OT if you make the conversion after a year in the league.

I wonder if they see enough in Hicks to roll the dice a little on him replacing Reid.
They really need to draft a real ball hawking FS to go along with whichever one it is too.

That makes sense too.

I don't think they really have a choice but to move on from Reid.

Spags is gonna hate it, but with Cook and Hicks being so similar to Reid in may ways, it just seems silly to dump $12-15 million/season into retaining Reid at this point.

You got your money's worth on Justin Reid. I think the move now is to bank your winnings and get up from the table. Especially with the draft capital we've put into safety over the years.

It’s going to be Jackson or Robinson

all I know is we need some tackles and guards up in here..
Like Easy said, get some players and let them compete...There wont be any answers for awhile...dont reach in the draft and lets roll

I think that's what I would do. This team needs to save money, and I think SS is a place we have some depth at. Including Jaden Hicks who I believe has the potential to be even better than Reid eventually. Gotta trim the fat somewhere and Hicks playing a bunch doesn't really worry me at all. I think he's going to be a very good football player.

I've mentioned this as a stop gap player who if you look at what he did last season was top 5 tackle production.

He played 15 games last season and while I agree he is not a long term solution, his pass blocking skills is exactly what we need while Kingsley develops.


https://i.redd.it/30za09cekytd1.jpeg

I'd be pretty surprised if Nourzad isn't starting at OG for us this year or next.

And I'd be 100% comfortable with Morris starting at OG for us tomorrow. I really don't see any reason he can't do that well.

I don't see that much of a 'need' for OG. But should the board come to us in a way that a great one is available (not dissimilar to how we got Trey) then sure, do that.

And honestly that another option IF Veach really likes Membou as a 10+ year starting RT. You trade up and draft him and throw Taylor over at LT while Kingsley plays swing until he either replaces Taylor at LT or doesn't develop and Veach looks elsewhere for our stud LT and keeps Kingsley as our swing guy.

And before you say Taylor is a RT man! We ****ing had a guard and other broke dicks playing LT this year and Taylor can't be any worse for 2025. Hell maybe moving as a left tackle will help him not false start all the ****ing time.

If the team does end up going with an older veteran on a short term contract they may well need 2 OT prospects very soon depending on how they see Kingsley going forward. Jawaan Taylor has 2 years left with a 7 million dead cap hit if cut after 2025, so that's 2 more years of him max.

They have no floor at LT. Wanya is most likely a RT that could be a short term LT for a few games if needed but that’s it. Kingsley is still developing, assuming he stays at LT and not RG and yeah most of these tackles being talked about as possible G’s in the draft is concerning.

Say what you want but at least there is a floor with Cam Robinson and it turns out he’s playable and won’t be a guy who outright loses games bc he’s getting raped over and over again like what we’ve seen from the 3 guys who started games at LT last year.

Not much choice here fellas

So we're gonna pay Robinson a good chunk of change, have a high paid LG/C/RT and a 2nd round pick at RG.


Then we've got a 1st round WR/2nd round WR and will probably pay another one this year.

Seems the "no resources on offense" talking points are kinda bunk....

Spot on, and this whole obsession with having to overpay is so odd to me. The Chiefs can always create cap room. It’s a complete non-issue. If you’d rather watch Mahomes get his ass planted more than he’s hitting deep bombs to Worthy and Hollywood so that we can maintain cap flexibility for 3-4 years from now, I don’t really know how to comprehend your frame of mind.

I'm not sure there's a huge difference between a Cam Robinson, Eric Fisher, OBJr.

Those are all guys who are proven capable starting left tackles and have played the position on really good performing offenses. They're all guys with weaknesses capable of getting them whooped by certain types of rushers.

But more often than not, they're gonna let your offense function like you need it to. I don't get all the hand wringing at Robinson in that sense. You aren't getting a Trent Williams.

Yeah and?

I think we all kinda unanimously agree that LT and only LT was the significant problem this year. Fixing that alone is going to change the entire picture. It's proven to be Mahomes' kryptonite, the blindside pressure that he couldn't see coming definitely gets in his head.

Robinson is Jawaan Taylor all over again. He's going to do what he does, get paid a ton for it, and people are going to bitch and moan endlessly about it.

If he is Jawaan Taylor I’d take that every day of the ****ing week. A Jawaan Taylor type talent would be an enormous upgrade over Wanya and Kingsley getting Mahomes killed and ruining games.

Jawaan is a solid level starter. Anyone who bitches at that after what we’ve seen are completely unrealistic.

Couple years ago it was the interior pressure, fixed that. Guess now it's the outside, hopefully we can fix that.

I get it. But you know damn well that's exactly what would happen.

Our best offenses of the Mahomes era included some mid at best interiors.

Is it great to have a strong interior? 100%. If it means sucking at T? Don't want it.

You're getting closer to it I think.

Ehhh

If Thuney is back it'll be on a new deal so his 27 million dollar cap hit should be reduced significantly. Also they have in house options for RG so that shouldn't require dollars.

Personally I think we should throw numbers at LT, go sign Tyron Smith and Jedrick Wills, if Wills can't stick at LT maybe he's a RT or a guard, he's got enough talent to be worth a signing.

He...uh...just needs more time?

Agree, solid LT play and this recent Superbowl is a whole different game. Pat has the +1.5 more seconds he needs to pick the defense apart. There seems to be a huge premium on LT in the NFL, if we have to pay out the ass for even a solid but not great starter that is what the Chiefs have to do.

That's fine, but they're gonna have to go cheap on the OL somewhere.

Or they got ravaged by injury, mismanagement, and time itself.

Yuuuuuuuup

That's, what, 2/3 of the board? 3/4?

Taylor gets excoriated pretty much every game 'round these parts.

I mean the good news is that if we do sign Robinson, it's probably gonna take a little heat off Jawaan at least. I expect it'll be Robinson that gets barbecued more often than not at that point.

I still can't help but laugh at the idea that folks thought Thuney was a possible answer long-term at LT. Man, there are a whole lot of dudes that see what they want to see on the OL...

Seems so. I'm not sure.

We're entering "we need better RB" periods in the story as well.

We got blasted in the SB twice bc we played bad players and moved guys to positions they had little or no experience playing.

SB55-rookie Allegretti, Wylie moving from RG to RT for first time, Reiter (journeyman), Remmers moving from RT to LT.

SB59-Thuney to LT, Caliendo starting

I’m still really pissed off at Andy for not putting DJ Humphries in. It was clear as day that Thuney wasn’t working at LT and Caliendo was getting destroyed. No idea why he didn’t put the best LG in the league back at his natural position to stop the bleeding there and have Humphies at LT?

Andy was a big reason why we crashed out.

Both starting WRs and starting RB miss significant time with injuries. LT is a ****ing disaster all season before settling on our All Pro LG playing the spot mediocre to badly. HOF TE aging out in real time.

I’m 100% out of moving OL guys around to cover up issues.

It seems to just turn strengths into weaknesses and not fix the weaknesses.

If LT sucks, adjust. Don’t make LG suck too.

They were warming Kingsley up on the sideline to go in at LG and it never happened, Humpries never even got warm...as much as people don't wanna hear this, they likely asked Pat and he said no.

Andy/Nagy made HUGE mistakes in the Superbowl, abandoning the run and also not shuffling the line when we had other viable options (Thuney at LG and Humphries at LT). I remember in the game thread many people thought at half we would see Thuney move back to LG and Humphries come into the game, nope. Caliendo should not be on the roster.

Well Taylor is going to be here 1 more year and then that contracts gone.

Is there actual footage of this. I have a really hard time believing it considering Humphries took half the first team reps in practices.

There was a large discussion about it on KCSN the week after the game, don't remember if it was on the lab or only weird games.

Another benefit to having solid LT play, I think Mahomes becomes less of a game manager and reverts back into an ice cold killer which we all know he has in him, say hello to winning games by 13+ points again

A big reason is that.....we had some bad luck.

They won a SB with Andrew Wiley at RT and OBJ at LT.

If we're gonna have to have all things working perfectly it's just not gonna happen much.

They gutted out wins and just ran into a buzzsaw. Shit happens.

We'll be ready to draft a T in the first round by then.

When Patrick Mahomes stunk this year, it was because he was getting antsy happy feet and dropping his eyes, running into the rush.

He got antsy because his LT sucked and got him drilled so often throughout the season, especially early on.

These are the facts, we don't like them, but there's zero denying it. It's why I can't fathom anyone thinking it's a good idea to roll the dice on Kingsley again. It'd be one thing if the poor tackle play was just causing a few plays to not come together. But it was impacting Mahomes for entire stretches of games. Who is to blame? Little bit of everyone.

But you can't not address that with some form of real proven solution and expect different results.

Thuney provided some level of a floor for a few games this year. He actually did a noble job up until the SB when the Eagles had time to evaluate him and figure out his weaknesses. He wasn’t great, but he was providing Donovan Smith level consistency for awhile and we saw the results.

That’s why Cam Robinson is the best option. He can provide similar results. And guess what! The offense averaged 28 PPG in those games with Thuney before the SB.

Hell the offense looked like the offense we missed so much when they played in Pittsburgh. Deep shots, time to throw, Mahomes having fun. Hell we were having fun watching it.

People will bitch at anything here. Eric Fisher was rhetorical most hated player on this board for years until he wasn’t. Now they want Willie Goddamn Roaf.

There’s a decent level floor for Robinson, and he knows the offense. Just get it done. Veach will structure the contract to provide outs with minimal damage for protection.

Because they're gonna need to be able to spread around resources and you can't just pile it all into the OL. But if they do, fine.

Then we'll be on to "they need more weapons".

I hope Seth Keysor does a film review of Kingsley playing LG in Denver. I have NFL+ and watched him closely.

He was solid against Zack Allen. Thought he got a better than passing grade. Lost a couple of reps but for the most part held up against that guy really well, and Zack Allen is a top 5 interior rusher in this league.

I think that game cemented their thinking of Kingsley moving to G. He just looked more natural there. Way more comfortable.