He's top 2 for me.

Maybe I will place him 1, haven't decided but leaning Nabers.

JFC here you go again misrepresenting the argument.

I never said Jeudy "sucks". I never said anything about production either.

The truth is that he's been a disappointment and it all can't just be explained away by situation.

Facts:

- Jeudy has had issues with injuries

- Jeudy has had issues with drops

- Jeudy has done stupid shit

Only a casual would either not know or pretend these aren't facts.

In the end, I don't care what board I post or what someone else thinks.

Situation is huge on where I buy these guys and that's the board we should actually look at.

Post draft.

Hell, I might have had Jeudy ahead of both those guys. I honestly have no recollection.

But what I wouldn't do is say "I wasn't wrong and if you disagree you're a casual" or whatever the hell that means.

If I had Jeudy ahead of Jefferson, I was dead-ass wrong. Been wrong LOTS of times.

But I don't have a thread insisting I can identify what an Alpha receiver is, either...

I don't think Mooney sucks, but then again, I'm not willing to give him anything more than a prove it deal, because he hasn't exactly proven anything in 4 years either.

Also, Mooney wasn't anywhere near the same level of prospect, with the same expectations.

You can acknowledge the situation isn't great while also acknowledging that it's not the only issue.

Any player over Jefferson is wrong now.

Where did I not say that?!


I had Jeff 3 and that was higher than most. Certainly over Ruggs and Reagor who actual NFL scouting staffs took higher.

Woah.

You are willing to bet your house on Marvin Harrison Junior absolutely being one of the top 3 wideouts in the NFL?

Dayum. That's...strong.

Hill's gonna fall off just as MHJ is coming on, so okay. But Jefferson and Chase are awfully young. As is Lamb. To say nothing of Nabers or even a guy like St. Brown that's friggen incredible if less well known. Or Waddle who does seem to be improving every season. Or AJ Brown who had claim to one of those top 3 spots last season before whatever the hell happened in Philly this year.

Just sayin' that WR is a pretty loaded group.

"I'm still right. Jerry Jeudy is a better player than Justin Jefferson and CeeDee Lamb"

Just so we're all clear that this is the sort of person you'd be arguing with by engaging this muppet.

Not necessarily right away, no. I'm just confident that by the time he's entering his prime he's that kind of guy.

"Guaranteed" was admittedly hyperbole on my part.

No, DJ Licks Nuts.

Never said that.


You're making that up homo boy.

"Your statement that I was wrong on Jeudy is for low rents" or whatever...

Your position was Jeudy was going to be a better player than Jefferson.

You were wrong on Jeudy. Staylor's statement was accurate. You took issue with it.

This is simple transitive property stuff, bucko.

No, that is not my position.


Damn, you must have been a shit lawyer before they put you in the home. The stupidity is impressive.

If only you were the Chiefs GM. What could've been...

I would have taken McLaurin instead of Hardman.

Khalil Shakir over Skyy (and probably a round later)

Swift over CEH.


Not so bad.

We wouldn't have Sneed though. I liked little Amik better, whoops.

<div class="tenor-gif-embed" data-postid="9645798" data-share-method="host" data-aspect-ratio="1.525" data-width="30%"><a href="https://tenor.com/view/hey-youre-taking-to-my-guys-gif-9645798">Hey Youre Taking To My Guys GIF</a>from <a href="https://tenor.com/search/hey+youre+taking+to+my+guys-gifs">Hey Youre Taking To My Guys GIFs</a></div> <script type="text/javascript" async src="https://tenor.com/embed.js"></script>

I prefer civility.

Unfortunately he gives me none now.

I give you no "civility"? LMAO

Maybe you're just sensitive, i don't know, but when you are passive aggressive I'm going to respond with actual agression :shrug:

It's all good though. I can tell you to **** off in this thread while we're getting along just fine in another. I don't hold grudges by any means.

I like what you post in the offseason. Just too much friction during the regular season.

You know you’re wrong and have been proven wrong when you turn to name calling.
Give it up buddy. This isn’t going well for you

Wake me up when you post something that’s not so boring I want to fall asleep.


You got a few months to pull it off.

Good luck.

Tiresome!!!

I'd really like to see you start up a team in the Alternate Reality Game that Rain Man runs. Mostly because we make the picks and we have to live with them year after year and build out our own squad. Not just you but a few others here in this forum. It's fun to see how you veer away from the real squad over years for good or bad. It's kind of sticking your money where your mouth is in terms of identifying talent and it isn't always easy.

I totally respect you because you put your picks out there.

Rather than some random guy that points out I had J Jeff ONLY 3rd when actual NFL teams took other way worse players than Lamb or Jeudy before JJeff got drafted.

Josh Reynolds anyone? Word is DET not going to keep him around.

You mean the guy that dropped two passes that broke DET's offense and was part of the reason they lost to the niners?

No thanks

The PFF Draft Guide came out today, 4 pages per player, great intel on route trees etc... pleasantly surprised with the quality!

Came here because I just read Burton's profile and they listed "Highly competitive player - constantly talking trash" as one of his strengths! lol love it!

"Brings a fiery approach to the position."

Same man. I don't agree with people, and people don't agree with me. I might argue things too far sometimes but that doesn't mean I don't respect you. Sometimes I argue against things just to get people to put their perspectives out there even if I might agree with much of what they say behind the curtain. Case-in-point is definitely trading for Jefferson.

PFF Player Comp for Franklin is Christian Watson... just coming here to say I told ya so lol

Are you saying that is bad? Why does anyone put any stock into anything PFF says?

That is a terrible comp in my opinion. Franklin played against high level competition, and Watson, while playing for a powerhouse, didn't play at a P5 powerhouse, and didn't play against the athletes on defense that Franklin did.

Yeah, I don't really get where people get these takes. The dude put up nearly 1400 yards and 14 TDs at 17 yards a reception in the PAC12. That's not nothing. He put up almost 900 and 9 as a true Soph the year before. He doesn't look or play like Watson at all. He's a lot more like Jameson Williams or Devonta Smith. He's slender, he wins with speed, he's smooth, and he can go up and get it. Those 2 guys went at 12 and 10 respectively. There's a real solid chance that Franklin is the 4th WR off the board and goes a lot higher than we think.

I am on record saying that I wanted Watson in the 2nd round, and I felt like we should have moved up a few spots to get him. I loved the size and speed combo.

Troy Franklin is so much better than Watson. By like a lot. Paired with Mahomes, Troy Franklin would be a top 5 receiver in this league by the end of his rookie deal.

I wanted Watson, too. And early in his rookie year, I got roasted for it. And then he scored like 8 TD's in like 6 weeks and people shut up.

There's an awful lot to like about Franklin.

I just want a good, smart, athletic top 64 pick. I'll trust Veach, Andy, and Mahomes to get their guy.

Also, I just saw some Pearsall highlights...

I've been sleeping on him. Did you see that one handed grab where he gets hammered on the crossing pattern and he still comes down with it?

Man.

Not at #32 or anything, but man.

I've been comparing him to a combo of D. Smith or J. Waddle crossed with a G. Pickens & C. Watson length over the course of this thread.

I like the swagger he brings too, you can see he’s confident in his game.

Marcus Rosemy-Jacksaint out of Georgia absolutely wreaks of Brett Veach.

The best part about the Reynolds drops is that you could actually see him poop himself just before the 2nd one.

After that first drop, his body language was just 'defeated'. He looked like me out there after a boot a grounder. "Please just don't hit the next one to me..."

He was terrified. And when that ball came his way there was just never a question he was going to drop it.

Nah - maybe someone else can get past that with him but that's a guy who's mental makeup tells me that when we need him to bring in a key 3rd down in January one of these days, he might just puke on his shoes at the mere thought of it.

Contrast that with, say, MVS - who's been irrationally confident his entire time here. I'll take the latter.

His senior bowl practices were insane too, I'll include a couple highlights. I think I'd be okay with going BPA at #32 and then Ricky at #64.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Hwz0mEH0O_Q?si=gijoi7xRHmZher5l" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Just a different level of route running and ball skills.

I can see the Jamo comp.


Guess that's why I am not in on him. I don't want a vertical #2 decoy with a 1st round pick.

I can get that cheap in FA.

Exactly why is Franklin a vertical #2 "decoy", while Thomas Jr. is just a good vertical #2?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Two takeaways from my convo’s w/ teams this wk: 1. Lot more QB J. Daniels’ love than in media. 2. WR=most polarizing pos. group after MHJ. Majority have Nabers 2 and Odunze 3, but some aren’t as sold. Lot of love for X. Worthy, Pearsall, Legette, McConkey, R. Wilson + Baker(UCF) <a href="https://t.co/TeYOVfEnCq">https://t.co/TeYOVfEnCq</a></p>&mdash; Todd McShay (@McShay13) <a href="https://twitter.com/McShay13/status/1762124133767266344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 26, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I think Thomas Jr scarier deep threat, will separate more.

Acceleration/Throttle >>>> Franklin


Franklin very fast once he hits top speed but he doesn't have the suddenness of Thomas Jr.

So what you're saying is Franklin can't actually win and make plays down the field at the NFL level, so he's just a decoy?

He'll make plays now and then but it's more of a decoy, like Jamo.


Remember that people on this board LOVED Jamo.

Now they want another.

Detroit's offense uses Jamo as a decoy to clear space for Sun God and La Porta (a TE I was promoting last year).

I love how you act like you've been making this Jamo comparison out of original thought, when the only reason you did it is because I posted a tweet showing just how rare of company Franklin is and Jamo was the one outlier you could point to and say "he's him though, not the others".

And again, Jamo was essentially a rookie this year. The book on him isn't even remotely close to finished. It's not like he didn't show flashes, even in the playoffs.

Also, one of the reasons he was more of a "decoy" this year is he's in a run first offense with an established volume WR1 and a QB with a noodle arm. Jamo would get way more looks in the Chiefs offense with Mahomes at QB.

Question: Are you open to the possibility that the QB each of these WRs played with the past 2 years is flavoring your assessment of them?

Brian Thomas Jr. played opposite a receiver who would be the top WR taken in most drafts, an absolute do-it-all who demanded tons of attention, and was being thrown to by a dynamic dual-threat QB with 4.3 speed and running ability, who also happens to be a deep-ball specialist.

Franklin played opposite some nice players, but not "top 10 pick in every draft" good like Nabers. His QB was incredibly efficient and effective but didn't throw a lot of deep shots (in an offense that doesn't throw a lot of deep shots).

I think when we see them run, you're going to see Franklin run a better 10-yard split, have a better 40-time, and run better shuttle/agility times.

Which, Combine training aside, if he tops Thomas in all those things there really is no support for the idea that Thomas is a more explosive athlete or separator.

Oh he's always laid the groundwork to dismiss all of that.

I’ll check in on the underwear Olympics just to spot check things.

But mind already made up on the games.

Thomas JR more wow.

Franklin in the 1st would feel like picking Skyy Moore in the 2nd.

Haven't looked into him yet, will take a closer look at him and McConkey this week. Finally.

Hmmm the senseless arguing on this thread actually led to an interesting debate, thanks Duncan for wrangling the conversation back towards meaningfulness...

IS Thomas Jr the best deep threat or DID he benefit from playing opposite a star?

Franklin WAS the #1 weapon on his team, without a doubt, IS he the better playmaker?

Rank these 15 WRs for our Chiefs... Fanklin, Thomas Jr, Mitchell, Worthy, Legette, Coleman, Burton, Polk, Walker, Corley, McConkey, Pearsall, R Wilson, Rice Jr, Cowing

Jefferson and Chase played together at LSU and they are both great.

What do the CEH, Mecole, and Skyy Moore picks have in common?

All low floor picks while not grabbing players with more traits and upside.

Yes, we are aware that there are outliers.

Thomas Jr.'s floor is Terrace Marshall Jr....

Not really.

Look at Alabama recently.

They had Jeudy, Waddle, Devonta etc all on the field at the same time.

Scouts have figured it out before, it’s not any harder than evaluating a WR going up against weak PAC 12 children.

Horrible comp, but ok.

Yes, there are other outliers as well.

What data set are you referring to?

How's that a horrible comp?

It's not a "comp". I said that's his floor. Same school. Basically same size/weight and skill set. Used very similar. Your bias couldn't be more blatant if you can't see the similarities.

One is going in the 1st and the other went near the end of the 2nd.

So your comp not great.

Oh for ****ssake! Lol

It's as if you have no understanding of the ceiling/floor concept.

When you're comparing Mitchell ("top 15 player") to McLaurin (3rd round pick), which is an infinitely worse comparison BTW, are you saying he's not a 1st rounder? Dipshit.

I never comped Mitchell to Terry McLaurin.

(My comp for Terry was a bigger TY Hilton)

That's a reading comprehension issue on you.


What I did describe is how EXCITED the draft kids were over Parris Campbell and how they ignored the better boundary WR on the same team at Ohio State. Look at that VOLUME to Paris! Yay!

Same thing happening this year with people drooling over the tiny slot Worthy and glossing over the Alpha WR in Adonai.


;)

You were comparing their ceilings though. Just like you were comparing Campbell and Worthy's floor. That's my point, and where McLaurin was drafted was irrelevant.

This all comes back to your lack of reading comprehension when I said Marshall is his floor. Marshall being a 2nd rounder is irrelevant.

Can ask a similar question of Jalen McMillan or Ja'lynn Polk. How much did Odunze help those guys?

It's always a super tricky question and it seems to pop up every year. And frankly it seems to happen a couple of times every season in every position group.

Yup, happens all the time with DL too.

Ryan Sims and Julius Peppers.

Sweat and Murphy this year.

Hate to say it but I've mellowed a tiny bit on Franklin and warmed a little on Mitchell. Would still love Franklin at 32

Go pick your teams dude!

Oh s*** my bad, sorry I'm on it!

Sims/Peppers came immediately to mind.

But I was also thinking McDuffie/Kyler Gordon. And I remember during the draft thinking "Man, Gordon looks really good - but they just NEVER throw at McDuffie. That has to mean something...right?"

Sure seemed to in that case.

I mean, how much have you watched Bo Nix?

You watch 2 minutes of Thomas highlights from the past 2 years, and you see Daniels ripping the deep ball consistently, with accuracy, good timing, and velocity, both from inside the pocket with his feet set and on the scramble drill.

You watch Franklin's highlights in comparison to Thomas's and it becomes apparent pretty quickly that there is a vast difference in the talent between the QBs throwing them the ball. Nix doesn't have the touch or feel or arm strength.

I think they're both really good prospects and would be glad to roll with either one. I don't think Thomas is in KC's range without a trade up into the low 20s, and honestly, Franklin might not be either.

I was a huge fan of McDuffie, but I also liked Gordon a lot too. I know he had a rough rookie season, but pretty sure he was good this year.

Here's Kollman's video on Adonai Mitchell:

https://youtu.be/I9PPe1KiHw4?si=kcswygPMqGn5euL1

His Lamb comparison (minus YAC) is interesting.

Come over to Team Alpha WR.


We have t-shirts.

https://www.canva.com/design/DAF-HGs..._source=editor

Yeah - it was never a comparison I made directly until after we made the deal and I wondered if we might've been better served staying put and taking Gordon instead of moving up for McDuffie.

Clearly not. I'm pretty sure I got that one wrong because I didn't like that we had to include a 3rd instead of a 4th. It just felt too steep.

Point: Veach.

I have been aware of Daniels for years.

Was initially excited but actually cooled on him just as others were getting excited.

What you are saying also applies to Daniels. He is throwing to two top 5 WR's in this draft class.