:thumb:

She is built right for sure.

I've always thought Reid was the main reason for our winning and for the players being as good as they are. He's as good as they come at maximizing player talents and value.

Also I can't quantify what exactly dorsey does so while I liked him, I still gave Reid most of the credit for the players acquired. I'm not happy Dorsey is gone, but I don't think it's nearly the disaster some think. We'll keep getting good players and Reid will keep getting the most out of them like he's done for 2 decades and if Mahomes pans out, we'll be a good team for the next decade plus even without Dorsey.
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In one off season Hunt got Reid and Dorsey and made them both the highest paid people at their jobs.


But people will still say he's cheap. He also has to approve of any first round pick trade, but people are also saying that he didn't want Dorsey to trade for mahomes.
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odds of going from one good GM to another good GM this late in the game are very small. If they were going to do this, they should have done it early and made Ballard the answer to all the problems, because he would have been the answer.

unless they hire that drunk from the Redskins. He's about the only guy available that might be as good as Dorsey

anyone else will probably be a yes man.

Hell no. The HC is far more important to continuity and the program in place for our vets and young players. We just spent picks on a young hopefully stud QB and you want to change the coaching staff over the GM?

I rather have kept Dorsey at this point for certain but if I had to choose Andy is way more important. Turning over the coaching staff sets you back years. It sets you back the entire roster.

Actually I wanted this to play out the next five years with Andy Clark and John hoisting a Lombardi trophy and then Andy retire and John Dorsey picks his successor. That's not going happen that way now.

I'm skeptic on Andy Reid but I liked what John Dorsey was doing for this organization yes I agree with you the HC is what the players play for but I'd like Dorsey to pick our next coach and not Clark Hunt.

it's probably going to end the same way it did in Philly with Andy drafting a 27 year old guard in the first round and making splash over the hill veteran FA signings similar to Vince Young and Nnamdi Asomugha and the wheels completely fall apart.

Andy the GM is the only thing worse than Andy the Clock Management

Tom Pelissero said that Dorsey was one of the lowest paid GM's

So the coaching staff didn't have anything to do with the success of the safeties off the junk pile? I liked Dorsey a LOT... but doesn't take away from the fact that Dorsey brought in players that other teams couldn't make work, and our coaching staff helped them to perform at higher levels because they were put in a position to be successful!! Our coaching staff has more to do with the players we bring in performing well, than Dorsey did at signing them.

You obviously missed the original point of his post?? It wasn't about the number of draft picks the team had. It was about WHAT POSITION THEY DRAFTED IN. Reading comprehension is key!!

This has to be the case. If Clark was unhappy with Dorsey for awhile, you don't let Ballard walk. There had to be something between the draft and now that happened that couldn't be forgiven. Say what you want about Clark, but he's not cheap. He ate Fat Scott's contract and will pay JD this year. If it's true that a #1 has to have Clark's blessing, then it was his decision to OK drafting PM. If he does promote from within, it's a pretty smart move to let Dorsey go now and let the new guy have the entire season, including TC, to evaluate the roster, scout, and plan for the next FA and draft.
Clark's a smart guy and he's shown he's not afraid to dismiss those that haven't lived up to what he's paying for. For all we know, the contract guy's input was ignored by Dorsey and he did overpay.

I remember Hali upset and making "me first" innuendos towards Chiefs leadership a few months back too

With the timing of the Andy Reid extension contract Dorsey could have walked in on Clark and Andy signing the paper only to find them having a sex romp with donuts and they all thought it would be best if Dorsey just to move on from the organization.


NTTAWW Andy and Clark having sex romp with donuts just a theory.

Dorsey was a top 5 GM from a talent evaluation stand point everything else you all say is just an excuse to justify a dumbass decision by Hunt.

Dude, no. I clearly labeled it as grapevine/rumor mill content.

If you think something like that should be confined to a post 250 people are going to see more power to ya but stuff like that needs to be spread around. I put it on twitter, FB and reddit for good measure.

RunKC already said he wasn't upset about it so get a grip.

I used to feel like we were blessed to have Clark as our owner. But my opinion on him has begun to sour. The only thing the firing of Dorsey has shed to light is that Clark is not the conservative uninvolved owner his image depicts him as.

Frankly I dont care, but its a perfect example of how stuff with zero corroboration or merit gets spread.

For all you know RunKC completely made it all up or his "source" made it up. Its really nothing more concrete than a CP posters opinion.

Alex Smith has the same MVP odds this year as Jj Watt, Odell, and Gronk.

Absolutely nothing Clark has said or done since firing Pioli should make you think he was conservative or uninvolved. He has told you the exact opposite himself. Thats why both the GM and coach directly report to HIM. :facepalm:

When YOU arent paying attention to whats being said dont cry about your perceptions being broken or changed.

Same chance at the Super Bowl too amirite ROFL

Future HOFER?

That's fine. This is all entertainment. Some people love reading that stuff. I count myself among them.

To clarify, I don't know or claim to know anyone who works at Arrowhead. The owner of the company I used to work for is a grandfathered STH who does business with the Chiefs (sponsorships, etc) with Mark Donovan on the business side and knows people who are friends/business associates with Clark.

No actually those are the odds that the NFL has put out

He is the only common denominator since 2006, and we are no closer to a Super Bowl in the decade since.

He is following in his father's footsteps of building teams that are only good enough to flame out to teams with superior QBs in the postseason, with the feather in his cap of winning the division a lot less and firing the GM/HC a lot more.

I don't think Goldman Sachs was a good training ground for running an NFL franchise.

There's no question that our coaching staff plays a significant role in developing these players.

I don't believe that's the issue.

But it takes both an eye for talent and then the ability to develop said talent to build a championship roster.

And we just lost half of that equation.

From all reports, Eric Berry's contract was very difficult for a long time and Andy and Clark had to step in in some way. Whether that is to get it done or get on John for it lingering so long is up for discussion, but it's clear that Clark and even Andy don't want anything to do with that part of the business.

Seems like they want someone else to take care of it so they don't have to meddle.

Even furthering my point.

Nobody will ever know the truth. Time to move on.

How do you know that? Who is replacing Dorsey and how good is he at his job?

Playing the odds here. How many currently employed GM's in the league were better at finding talent in the last 5 years? How many years did it take for the Chiefs to finally find a competent GM?

This roster is regarded by many as one of the top "top to bottom" rosters in the league. We dumped a sure thing for a complete unknown and the odds don't favor us.

That's untrue. Clark already said the decision to release Dorsey came after thorough examination of the entire football operation, and made no mention of contract negotiations, which lines up with the info provided by RunKC.

The awkwardness between Dorsey and Hunt after selecting Mahomes can clearly be seen in the video. Reid was clearly pissed at the questions about Berry during Voluntary OTA's. Berry and Houston were both very curt with their answers after Mandatory OTA's.

It's not a stretch to assume that Mark Donovan, Reid and Hunt were livid with the manner in which Maclin was released.

All of the dots connect.

I personally think Clark is acting the way he is because of the Pioli fiasco. He gave Pioli total control over everything and he's not willing to do it again. That's why he has the coach and GM reporting straight to him seperately. He decides his hired and fired at the top level himself.

There are many people left in the organization that played a role in drafting and signing players on this roster. It's a collaborative effort, one put in place by Reid and Hunt, so it shouldn't be a stretch to assume they will continue with the same process.

The guys in the personnel department know what kind of football players fit Reid and Sutton's schemes.

There's no preactical reason to assume that would change with a new GM.

Time will tell if this was the right move or the wrong move.

But for people that always wanted a more "hands on owner", say "hello" to Clark Hunt.

Some of you act like Dorsey was Ozzie Newsome with the Ravens. He wasn't that good of a GM. Lot of talent has been coached up to play above their means by Reid. That wasn't a 12-4 football team last year talent wise. It was a 9-7 to 10-6 team that got by on some lucky breaks and outstanding coaching by Reid.

The roster Dorsey out together the last few years is a hell of alot more better than Newsomes in that time frame.

Who didn't agree with the Mahomes pick?

The Mafia runs the NFL , Hyman Roth always makes money for his partners.

Newsome has won two Super Bowls, 13 years apart.

Dorsey's team couldn't get past the Divisional round.

The **** you talking about?

Maria is hot, too

TY. ****ing autocorrect. You know the truth.

Baffled 😕.

Dorsey has an eye for talent but money wise I am not sure. When it comes bottom line, owners become vicious.
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At least when Moore released Chris Young it was face to face. Hell he even invited him over to his house. Unlike a certain gm who releases players via voicemail

I feel so sorry millionaires that were on the team for two years and then released. My heart bleeds.

Because it's customary for "millionaires" to be fired via voicemail

It was reposted before Run could say anything

Anybody else's take you can get out there to turn your credibility from the shitfest you come up with.

"Kansas City lost its director of college scouting when Mike Adams was hired by the Bills for the same position this offseason. Director of pro scouting Will Lewis was also not retained this offseason."

Does anyone know why Mike Adams took a lateral move? There was a lot of shakeup before Dorsey was let go. What credit does someone like Adams get for our drafts or does it ALL fall on Dorsey?

Marvin Allen and he took a demotion. He's a national scout now. Not the director of college scouting with buffalo

It is interesting to reflect on all of the changes since the end of the season.

Chris Ballard to Indy, Trip McCracken and Will Lewis not retained, Marvin Allen to Buffalo with a demotion and in a shock, David Culley, who'd been with Reid since 1999, to Buffalo to coach QB's.

Ballard is pretty much the only person that made a non-lateral move.

If you connect the dots, it seems as if there was something going on with the front office and management.

Whether these moves were due to Clark's influence or Dorsey panicking, it's interesting to reflect upon the moves this year.

That report is a mistake. The Chiefs didn't employ a "Mike Adams", it was Marvin Allen.

Speaking of Will Lewis I would entertain the idea of bringing him back if I was Clark and did end up promoting within. Make him Assistant GM, VP of player personnel or director of football operations...a 2nd in command no matter the title. His contract wasn't re upped most likely for $$ reasons. Probably the same with Marvin Allen. By hiring Tim Terry from GB Dorsey got an up and Commer who would have a smaller salary than Lewis and be someone they could groom. Same with Ryan Poles taking over for Allen. First timers for directors saves them money just as the only reason Dorsey was among the lower paid GMs is because it was his first GM job and the first contact in most cases will be paid in line with other first time GMs. So in his eyes, Dorsey thought he was saving Clark a few $$ and figured that looked good from a management perspective and could translate to making him more on his 2nd contract. Just a guess.

But things being what they are currently I would seriously consider bringing Will Lewis back for the likely first time GM to lean on. Plus he's been in GB and Seattle working with the same people who groomed Dorsey in the Ron Wolf ways.

Do we know that Reid and Hunt put those people and structure in place and not Dorsey? We have lost a number of important people, including the top 2. It's very realistic IMO that we will feel the effects of this soon and it won't be great.

Who we hire can change that, but as I and others have said, them filling the role of Dorsey and/or Ballard will be difficult. I personally will not be happy if the handling of Berry and Maclin's contracts are the main cause of him leaving. That's not a good enough reason IMO.

Why would Dorsey be the GM of the team, yet not be allowed to hire the people that work for him? Of course he made the decisions to hire and fire, except for the people that left of their own volition.

That's speculation. It's a collaborative effort to scout and draft. It's not a decision made by one person. I can't see the Chiefs suddenly drafting guys that don't fit Reid's scheme or profile because John Dorsey and Chris Ballard are gone.

Again, speculation. Who here on CP knew anything about John Dorsey or Chris Ballard before they were hired in 2013? The Bad Guy, maybe?

The bottom line is that there are candidates worthy of filling positions all across the NFL and fortunately, the draft is 10 months away. The Chiefs could fill their GM position by Training Camp and still add guys in January or February.

All is not lost.

It sounds like a cumulative effect. A WR coach leaving, after working with Reid for 17 years, a College Scouting Director leaving for a demotion, their Pro Personnel Director along with the Director of Football operations didn't receive contract renewals, now Dorsey is fired.

Something was going on in the front office.

Exactly right.

I have a thought that I think is possible I'll throw by you. Reid got McDermott that job by his strong recommendation more than anything else or a big reason as to why. Culleys goal of becoming a play caller is why Reid allowed it. He allowed it as a personal favor. Cully goes there as a major influence in the passing game to balance rick dennison in the run game. That plus Reid pushing hard for Sean to get that allowed for him and Reid, not Dorsey and what's his name ( buffalo fired GM) making the trade for only giving up a 2018 first and this years 3rd. That deal and the fact they gave up so little for 17 spots still amazes me. Plus the moving up and aggressiveness compared to past drafts just in terms of trades leaves me to believe Reid played a large role because he had a feel for it when he had both roles in Philadelphia. Not saying anything like he is better or Dorsey is a bad GM... just that based on previous trading it was dealing with SF and Arizona...basically the same teams on so many trades instead of this years deal with anyone and moving up or down...I think it's possible Reid played a bigger role just to help Dorsey out and give him a different perspective if anything else. I could be way off too. And I'm not favoring Reid over Dorsey as I wish this didn't happen and Dorse signed an extension too.

Agree. Of all the weaknesses on our team, most point to Reid. Far more than point to Dorsey.

This process is going to happen very quickly. You can't interview external candidates when training camp starts. And at this time, who is going to allow us to do that? I wouldn't be surprised if teams block us. Keep in mind that these guys are about to start the scouting process for the year.
Teams don't want to lose someone in July and have to replace them with no time left.

This makes us far more likely to be an internal hire IMO.

Hunt scares the crap out of me. Billionaire. Connected. Organized. Powerful associates. Completely inept.

I didn't even know who Ballard was. Now Dorsey had a good deal of history. There was enough out there to know what we were potentially getting and I feel he lived up to all of it and more. No matter how we slice it, it's going to take a great hire to find somebody equal to one of them. If this had gone down months ago we could have potentially already made a great hire in Ballard. Whether that is Dorsey's fault, bad timing, or Clark not making this call at the right time, who knows.

Because of Alex Smith who was xhoosen by Reid

Sent from my SM-S906L using Tapatalk

:facepalm:

Brett Veach has the same exact trajectory as Chris Ballard and will get a chance to beccome a GM in the NFL.

Whether it's with the Chiefs remains to be seen but it's difficult for me to believe that Clark doesn't have a plan in place.

Sorry not the way I seen it against Indy or the Pats

Yes god forbid we discuss or speculate on an anonymous message board

Move on guys


LolROFL:doh!:

You're gravely mistaken. I'm just a dude trying to get some good info out. I've been doing it for years. My signal-to-bullshit ratio is 90/10 on any social media account so the idea that a drop in the bucket is some attempt by me to gain "credibility" is ludicrous. I couldn't care less about that because I'm not trying to be anything I'm not.

It's either Hunt knows this is not the work of Dorsey and he fired him knowing there's a capable replacement. But I doubt it. I think he will be very hard to replace. The entire league was shocked.


This sucks more than Gonzo's armpit.
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I'm shocked that the entire league was shocked.

Just when you think the Chiefs have exercised every conceivable, idiotic misstep in the history of the league, I can assure you they will turn right around and raise that bar a few feet higher.

Just when I thought we needed a few pieces to become a great team, this happens.

I am beginning to slightly suspect it's an ownership issue.
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Isn't it, though?

The hell of it for Dorsey is that it was done EXCLUSIVELY to protect Clark Hunt. It had no impact on the salary cap. The football side gets no benefit from that insurance policy.

And it turns out that trying to protect some small percentage of his boss's vast fortune played a massive role in his eventual firing.

No good deed goes unpunished, man...

Someone has/had to play that bad cop role in the negotiations. Usually that's the case with GMs. The insurance policy was literally an unprecedented situation. Never had been dealt with and nothing to compare it to. You would hope in that case the player would be able to put himself in management and ownership shoes from their perspective. Same with Maclin. It was right after his wedding. There was no good time or way to do it. They probably didn't decide on it until something had to give cap wise and with redoing contracts just wasn't going to get the job done they were left with a choice of releasing Smith, Houston or Maclin and made the best choice considering. In hindsight paying the extra salary for a Denny Thum type of accounting wiz that could handle the cap since Dorsey is who he is, a Ted Thompson type old school scout with little experience in cap and contracts...too bad they didn't foresee this from the beginning or addressing it in one of the following off seasons before now. They trusted McCracken exclusively and it's not worked out. Clark only has himself to blame in that regard

I think Dorsey did a horrible job with contracts and salary cap and so so with picks. The last few big things Berry's contract, Houston's contract, and Maclin's release all were shit.

While it was shocking because it wasn't even on anyones radar, it's not the end of the world.

Wasting your time

LMAO Ya' think?

I'll give you the other issues, but so-so with picks ain't one of 'em.

And while this may not be the end of the world, it is absolutely the end of a partnership and dynamic that was working and getting stronger with each passing season.

Clark has violated his "hands-off" policy that so many shitheels around these parts just LOVED to throw in your face when discussing ownership and everyone in the league now knows it, Andy is about to be given even further levels of total control and zero accountability which in the past has worked so wonderfully, and the Chiefs overall have now been classified as a "problem child" organization with no clear focus or mandate of operations.

Great job, Clark! :clap:

I don't think Dorsey did a bad job at all with contracts all things considered.

Kelce, Parker, Sherman, Sean Smith, Alex, Fisher, Bailey and even LDT were good contracts.

Houston and Berry were foregone conclusions to get paid massive $$ no matter what.

Tamba is a legit eyesore but look at the situation. Ford was unknown and Houston just injured and Tamba knew everything. He knew we desperately needed him and he was a fan/ownership favorite. He literally had all the leverage on that deal.

The fact that Dorsey and his team got Andy out of a huge hole was reason enough to keep his job at least this season IMO.

So I directly address what bullshit this number of yours is, you ignore it and continue to cite it as though its relevant.

That figure is absolute horseshit.

I can remember the week before the playoff game against Steelers the Dorsey to GB was firing on all cylinders and a fan thinking this is the last thing we need to worry about right before a home playoff game. I know it had no effect on the outcome but from a PR standpoint it certainly didn't look good given the timing.

If you are trying to marry your girlfriend and you hear rumblings she wants to eventually get back with her ex, you probably say screw this im out to save face. I think hunt wanted to gamble on Dorsey given his history so let Ballard go and when negotiations came about the ex came back into the picture (GB). Hunt isn't an idiot he knows what he had with Dorsey so I can't imagine what put him over the edge besides purely emtions. GMs make bad deals (Osweiler) but if their intention is in the right place the owner buys in. To say let's start over tells me there was a wolf somewhere and as we saw, many decided to leave through lateral moves or even demotions. I support Clarks call on this despite all the facts, I just wish we knew what he did.

He may but I can't believe this was plan A. I would imagine Ballard was plan B, with Veach being at best plan C.

This makes much sense !

Wasn't Pioli good with contracts?
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As recently as a week or so ago he was seeking to extend Dorsey, sufficient that Dorsey was 'blindsided' this week, and Clark had the time to do a top-down review AND put 'a plan in place' to improve the team from it's current state?

Man, there's homerism, and then there's fanfic.

Running this theory seems to me like the guy who proposes to his GF at a sporting event. Then when she runs off the court in embarrassment, he proposes to the nearest usher like that was his 'plan' all along.