Yeah, the rule has to change. As it stands, the rule states that a WR has the right to fight back to an under thrown ball and if he has to go through a defender to do it, it's DPI. They even talked about it on the telecast.

That's going to vary from play to play.

Question for you though. Why is it DPI if the DB doesn't get his head turned? In what universe is that some catch all? As long as he doesn't shove the WR away from the ball or impeded him from coming back....what does it matter?

Carr underthrew the ball and that catch would have been hard as **** for Adams if Watson wasn't there. It's a stupid ****ing call.

I think that’s gonna be Veach’s focus next Spring. Especially with Wharton tearing his ACL.

Assuming Clark is gone that would leave Karlaftis, Danna (in a contract year) and Chris Jones (contract year but will most likely get an extension of some sort) as our rushers on the roster.

Would really like to get a pass rusher in FA, use a pick in the 1st rd and another in the 3rd or 4th to bolster that position.

Maybe - but the blitzes were pretty effective. The Harris sack being the most obvious but I can think of at least 2 other plays where pressure from a blitzing player blew up the play.

And given how ineffective our rush was only sending 4, you may just be talking about picking from the best of bad options. I can see the value in flipping to an odd front, bringing pressure from varied blitzers and trying to wrong-foot them since it's not something they've seen on tape.

Confusing Carr would've been a good way to force a mistake. But he played a smart game.

Yeah, there needs to be an exception for when the defender has established his space. Watson didn't do anything to further impede Adams - he simply held the space he'd clearly established and Adams treated him like he thought he was a camera guy...

Exactly.

The inference drawn is that if a DB doesn't turn his head, he's not attempting to play the ball but rather body the receiver.

The problem, as you noted, is that it's become a catch-all. And that's simply not the case in all instances and wasn't the case here. Watson wouldn't have done anything differently had he turned his head - he couldn't have with Adams in full stride. He was exactly where he should've been to defend that pass.

Carr and Brady are the two best QBs at just chucking up balls for the sole purpose of getting a DPI called. And there's nothing that the DB can do. It's ****ing bullshit.

Have we established yet that the misdemeanor assault charges filed against Adams weren't actually as a result of this play? Because that was more savage than anything Chris Jones did on Sunday...

Mark Sanchez made an art form of it.

That year they went to the AFCCG, I swear it was in the playbook.

Too many times you see the same amount of contact with no call as long as the head is turned.

I dont' have an answer here. It's a bad rule.

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It's similar to what folks say about holding calls.

"Keep your hands inside the pads and it's not a penalty..."

The **** it isn't - a hold is a hold. But it's considered an acceptable hold if you're inside their pads.

It kinda gets back to the fact that this game just moves too fast for some of these calls. So officials, rather than get it right, look for certain keys. If an O-Lineman has his hands outside the pads and turns a defenders shoulders, they're probably gonna throw a flag. If a defender makes contact with a receiver and didn't turn his head, they're probably gonna throw a flag. If a WR fully extends his arms before separation to make a catch, that's probably gonna be an OPI (but not if he just gives a quick chuck that could create even more separation). If a DB gets his hands above a WRs waist when he's running alongside him, look for illegal contact, even though below the waist can be just as disruptive, it won't be called.

And there's more if you think about it. If a WR's head snaps forward on contact, that's gonna be an unnecessary roughness even if there was no contact to the head. These refs use shorthands and proxies to make up for the fact that they can't actually see what's happening in real time.

It's irritating as hell. Those shorthands are right far more often than they're wrong, but that doesn't mean they aren't wrong often enough to meaningfully impact outcomes.

I said it in the Dunlap thread - he was never a viable replacement for Quinn. Because even last season when he had solid production, his win rates were below average. I think I noted he was closer to Clark than league average.

Dunlap is a guy who gets some sacks, but he doesn't consistently impact plays positively. He's a pure rotational player at this point in his career and will likely see most of his production be either matchup dependent or possibly coverage sacks.

He's not a difference maker and never should have been considered as such.

It's just hard as shit to do man. I've watched and listened to dad talk about it for my whole life, this is his 46th year being a white hat on a high school football crew. It's easier at that level obviously, but still, there's so many gray areas.

You guys know what has to be done. I know it's hard, I can help coach you thru the transition. It's ok.

LMAO

Yet they miss shit like Juju getting his hand held down by the Raiders defender. Somehow it’s okay to make the WR only have one hand as long as your head is turned around.

We'll get there. It's a process.

Where are we going to find a time machine to go back and draft Sam Williams?

Man he looked good against LA last week. Limited reps but impactful every time he was out there.

The player we absolutely should have prioritised is Ingram. Quinn's not having a great year. Ingram is having ANOTHER solid one. The guy isn't flashy, won't have the sack numbers, but he is endlessly productive and reliable. But loads of people here were happy to wave him off.

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Don't be coy. You guys all know the answer. You know it's gonna happen.

You can keep running from it. It's gonna catch on

Sacks aren’t his specialty….pressure is.


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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Chargers?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Chargers</a> went for it on 4th and 2 from their side on the field with 1 minute left.<br><br>They are only up two points, so this basically might lose them the game. <a href="https://t.co/umtEFvK8Db">pic.twitter.com/umtEFvK8Db</a></p>&mdash; Dov Kleiman (@NFL_DovKleiman) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1579200498879512576?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 9, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

But for some reason this isn't DPI. I guess maybe Williams didn't fight hard enough to get through the defender?

My druthers is that neither of those plays are a DPI.

Defender made a play on the ball. The contact was incidental to the fact that the ball was knocked away.

And on the Watson play, Watson was there and the ball was underthrown. He had already established inside position and because of where he was positioned, the ball was not going to be caught. The rest is masturbating.

Weird. I thought George had a couple sacks. Did he have any plays called back by penalty?

Whatever. He'll be fine. He's a rookie, that came from a small school. It was always going to take some time for him to adjust to the NFL. He has the physical attributes to play at this level; he just needs to develop mentally.

Purdue is a small school now?

I didn't like the 1 year decision to challenge to create a penalty. I would be okay with the ability to challenge a bad penalty though. Then it's just either keep the penalty or pick up the flag.

They should never allow teams to challenge an unthrown flag on roughing the passer. But if they do, I think the NFL should call it the Tom Brady Rule.

Small might be the wrong word. They aren't Alabama, okay? Purdue has had just two winning seasons in the last ten years, right? They aren't a big time program.

The most egregious examples are the games where you get these phantom penalties for roughing Carr and Ryan, but in the same games an opposing defender hits Mahomes late directly IN FRONT OF the REF's FACE, and they don't call shit. Those aren't oversights...they're agendas. It absolutely blows my mind that they don't seem to have any interest in protecting the best young QB in the league. It's mind-bottling.


Hell one of the Raiders defenders slung Mahomes (just like what happened to Tua and what they said they were calling the defender for against Brady) and nothing.

That's my real beef.

Not me. I couldn't believe we didn't resign him...
1.) because we're so thin there
2.) he was EXCELLENT value

Quote:

Originally Posted by crispystl (Post 16525605) The most egregious are the games where you get these phantom penalties for roughing Carr and Ryan, but in the same games an opposing defender hits Mahomes late directly IN FRONT OF the REF's FACE, and they don't call shit. Those aren't oversights...they're agendas. It absolutely blows my mind that they don't seem to have any interest in protecting the best young QB in the league. It's mind-bottling.

I think it’s race, they treated Cam Newton the same way.

Yeah "small" was probably the wrong word. Their enrollment is 41k LMAO.

Yeah, but their football program isn't 'big.' I never really cared about a school's student population when talking about football. Because it's not important to any football discussion. It's always been about how big their program is, for me. Do they "compete" against the best programs. And by compete, i mean more than just take the field. Like have a legit chance to win most Saturdays. Which they don't.

Purdue doesn't fall into that category, at least recently. They've been a middling program No one is going to argue that Purdue is probably going to even cover the spread vs. OSU, Michigan, PS, or most of the other teams in the Big 10.

In that respect, a football-only perspective, they're not a big program.

They're not Arkansas State, man. That's a Power 5 school that's produced quality players like Ryan Kerrigan, Cliff Avril, Ja'Whuan Bentley, Mike Neal and Ricardo Allen over the last decade. In fact they've been known as one of the better DL schools this century. They went 9-4 last season and beat Tennessee in their bowl game.

No, they aren't Alabama. But they're not some pisswater school where guys don't get coached up. Purdue is a quality program with a good coach. I don't see citing Purdue as some sort of handicap as being a useful exercise here.

I'd probably pull the ejection handle on this one, but your mileage may vary...

It seems that there are maybe only a half dozen schools that would meet your standard for "big". I believe if they are playing in the power 5 they are a big school. They compete against the absolute best in college football. That's where the true measuring stick is for big or small IMO. Level of competition and their performance against that competition.

I'm not saying they're a bad program. And yes they've produced some quality NFL defensive players, no question. All I'm saying is that they might be in the power 5, but they ain't OU, OSU, or whoever. They're on the outside looking in at those teams, yes?

And they don't win much, do they. Well, except last year, 9-4. And beat some decent teams, iirc.

But mostly they're a middle of the road team, most years. They've had just two winning seasons in the last ten, and they've been smoked by some pretty unimpressive teams in the process. in those terms, they haven't really competed, if they got the brakes beat off them, did they?

The only thing that puts a hole in my argument is the fact that PUR has beaten some ranked teams recently, particularly last season, when they beat Iowa (23), and Mich St. (9). But they also got smoked by teams like Wisconsin (27?).

Hell, it's not an indictment. My Sooners have always had a relatively big student body, but they went a stretch of years where they were mostly insignificant as a football team. More recently they've been in the conversation nationally, but there was a period of more than a decade after Switzer left for the NFL when they weren't.

But if you want to base it on the student body, okay, go ahead. Imo, the number of students shouldn't really have anything to do with the football team's success or how anyone ranks their football team, but okay.

With McDuffie being injured or not 100% when he does comeback Yogurt needs to start stepping up and produce more "splash" plays instead of this middling roleplayer shit. It's been 5 games George start making impact plays like a 1st rounder should

Impressive for a rookie just completing his first month of games in the NFL

Interesting

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">D-line prospects dominated this year&#39;s draft class. They&#39;re living up to the hype. <br><br>Top rookie pass-rushers through five weeks of play...<br><br>1. Aidan Hutchinson: 15 pressures (per PFF)<br>2. George Karlaftis: 14<br>3. Travon Walker: 9<br>... Kayvon Thibodeaux: 9<br>... Arnold Ebiketie:: 9</p>&mdash; Brent Sobleski (@brentsobleski) <a href="https://twitter.com/brentsobleski/status/1580195288970846211?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 12, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Most QB pressures this season, via <a href="https://twitter.com/PFF?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@PFF</a><br><br>Nick Bosa - 31<br>Micah Parsons - 28<br>Brian Burns - 24<br>Maxx Crosby - 22<br>Trey Hendrickson - 22<br>Matt Judon - 22<br>DeMarcus Lawrence - 22<br>Aaron Donald - 22</p>&mdash; NFL Stats (@NFL_Stats) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL_Stats/status/1580327514639339521?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 12, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

LMAO PFF just can't help but shoot themselves in the foot with that. They routinely have him marked as barely replacement level yet all the stats they put out have him as at the very least a decent level starter.

Just ****ing great. We burn a first on him and find out hes only half a bosa from some tweets. **** me in the ****ing ass.

You know that Bosa, actually both Bosa's, heck both Watts, are generational mutant freaks, right? They don't grow on trees, my man.

George is better than every rookie EDGE but one, and better than a lot of veteran starters, including pretty much every EDGE we currently have on the team.

We didn't 'burn a 1st' on some JAG. We got a high value player that has a lot of upside.

Considering where we drafted him, and where generational DEs usually get drafted, we did pretty well, imo.

I really liked the pick, still do. This'll win me no friends BUT, I think Karlaftis has been our most disappointing rookie. He's been fine and I wasn't expecting the same ridiculous "he'll break the rookie sack record" outcome as occasionally predicted. But I've been a bit surprised at how often he's been walled off or washed out miles from the action on run plays. I really thought he'd kill there from day one even if the pass-rush took some time. The play he made against the Bucs where he knifed through for a tackle for loss was the sort of play I imagined him making a LOT. Just hasn't happened yet.

Entirely accept that my expectations were probably still a little high for him in his 1st year, and also that it's comparing him to what I've seen from the rest of the rookie class. He'll come good I'm sure.

Man, for me, I just want to see rookies get significant playing time. Karlaftis is our 2nd most-used defensive lineman (after Clark) and I think that says something.

And speaking of availability, I'd have to say McDuffie is the most disappointing so far, through no fault of his own. You always want to see your 1st rounders play.

There's still 12 games left; he could still break out. I kind of think he will, based on who KC plays the latter half of the season. Also, Cullen is still probably moving pieces around, seeing who can do what (and what they can't), so part of George's lack of production probably has a lot to do with Cullen gathering info, so to speak.

And I predicted 7-10 sacks for Karlaftis during preseason, so I'm with you there. I still think he can get 7+ sacks. And remember, one thing that hasn't helped our DL is the fact that our secondary is young and inexperienced in Spags system, so QBs have been able to find open receivers before our DL can beat their blocks.

As the secondary improves, QBs will have to hang onto the ball a little longer, and George will probably start having more of an impact. My guess anyway.

Kind of felt like he was about to break out against the Raiders early on, but then when Wharton and Clark went out they were playing him inside.

I think the kid is obviously still learning and adjusting, and the thing about him is that you have full confidence in him making improvements. Especially year to year.

The fact that he has more pressures than Walker and Thibodeaux, while being just behind Hutchinson, makes it hard to use the word "disappointing".

The pressure is there, the sacks should come, and it will feel better when they do.

Yeah I've felt that a few times. I don't think it's miles off. I think if/when we get something passable on the other side it's going to help. Hopefully with Danna back it's this week.

I watched the all 22 again this morning and sat there during the 2nd half thinking "how can I even evaluate his play" - they were playing him inside so much with Jones outside, WTF was that?

I think this is it. If he stays healthy I've no doubt he maximises his talent. Maybe that ends up being less than I'd expected but I feel confident he keeps improving. Maybe not this year, you've just got to cling on as a rookie, but as you say year to year.

His run defense is very good too. The guy stood up Quentin Nelson and blew up a run. He holds the point really really well. Look at the runs in the Raiders games. There are not very many that are his fault.

He’s gonna be a good all around DE. Just takes some time

I totally agree that Danna back will help, because he's clearly been missed.

Hopefully that Frank Clark we saw early on can resurface more often, and stay on the field.

Absolutely. He's been pretty much an ever-present. Have to say I liked what I saw from McDuffie albeit he was up against absolute dross.

Karlaftis was always going to be a guy that you bet on because although he's not super bendy or a freak athlete, he has enough athleticism combined with the work ethic and desire to be great.

This kid was drafted and the first thing he says to his gf is that the Chiefs have some other good pass rushers. He was already envisioning his role and having success.

He just get its and he's a guy you know is 100% bought in. He's going to go workout with Pat's guy in Texas the next few offseasons, and he's going to keep getting better for the first 2-3 years.

I have no doubt he will be a good player/piece, and will really thrive shall we find a size/speed guy opposite of him.

Hopefully with Danna coming back, Clark can stay OFF the field a little more. Maybe it will help keep him healthier.

No doubt. In a perfect world, I think all 4 of our guys should be playing about equally.

Ok, I’ll bite. Jones and… ?

Your mom.

Obviously he was talking about Clark because of name only.

NEED MORE SACKS!!!

I was listening to Detroit radio here in Michigan and they were complaining about Hutchinson's production so far.

I gotta stop listening to podcasts, the other day I heard Jeff Chadiha say Karlaftis has been invisible and disappointing as a player.

Well yea, he was the consensus #1 player in the draft, so expectations are obviously going to be different.

That whole defense is trash though.

Good point, and they probably thought he was going to be their savior all by himself, so expectations are probably ridiculous for most.

I'm almost positive there was a play in the first quarter, but could have been early second, Monday night where Karlaftis blew around the end and had a clear shot at Carr. He was held. And no, there was not a flag.

Just watching game highlights the other night, and there were a lot of holds not called. I'm sure if w watched the full game replay or the A-22 we'd see dozens.

I was being sarcastic. But I’d be thrilled with 5 sacks on the year.

Was Karlaftis free on the path to sack Carr on one of them fairly early in the game?

Yeah, think I remember that one. There was a pile of them. And it wasn't one-sided. Our OL committed several holds as well, but no flags.

I just wish the refs would be more consistent. Last year before the season the NFL said that holding along the LoS would be de-emphasized somewhat, or words to that effect, for the sake of the pace of the game. Well, that's a win in my book. Only holding that might've affected the play were supposed to be called. But somehow the refs seem to have gone all the way over the other side and now they aren't going to call holding at all, whether it matters or not. Which is BS.

And now they're calling RTP different, and it's screwing up the outcomes of games. Jarrett gets a flag vs. Brady for the exact same type of sack that Perryman(?) does on Mahomes, but no flag for Pat.

i mean, they're basically identical, except that Jarret gently rolls Brady over and gets flagged, while Pat is whipped to the ground hard enough to bounce, and no flag.

It's utter BS.

Dude was invisible today.

so um...looks like i was right

he's a big ball of try hard and not much else

High motor. Does all the little things

Gritty, brings his lunch pail to work

His lunch pail is huge and made of pure titanium.

The bar isn't CEH, but **** he's JAG.

All season long so far!

Does the preseason count?

Lol so much for this vaunted rookie class

Thus far. He certainly has not been a difference maker.