I really think Dorsey's gift IS finding football talent no doubt. But contracts are not. If you do decide to do a poll create an option for "great talent evaluator/poor cap mgmt".

Damn shame we couldn't keep Ballard but seems like the meat and potatoes of the problem happened after he was long gone.

Pretty much.

If I had not much love for Clark before this, I sure as **** have even less now.
And we can now put this "Clark hires and stands out of the way"-horse shit to rest, yep.

It sounds to me like Dorsey was handling personal matters very poorly, so Hunt felt compelled to rectify the damage.

Dorsey had been excellent at identifying college players that fit Reid's system but he was less than average in identifying pro free agents and signing them to contract commensurate with their abilities.

It also doesn't sound like Dorsey is much of a "People Person", which might be okay if you're Bill Belichick or Bill Parcells, but not okay when you're a GM of a team that hasn't won anything of significance since 1969.

You all make valid points. To me, it's frustrating to have pointed out his issues with managing the cap for several years only to get brushed aside, then to have people use his issues with cap management as a justifiable reason for his removal when such issues were apparently fine a few weeks ago.

Who would you rather be, Horseface with a fat wallet, or Dorsey with a deep as **** roster?

Oh yeah, that deep roster? You can kiss that goodbye. No one is going to replicate that talent.

Holy ****; we have found common football ground. Someone mark this day on the calendar, please.

I couldn't care less about the cap management. It's not as if the Chiefs were forced to cut very productive players during his tenure due to the size of their contracts/cap management.

Bowe's deal was a bad deal. Nearly everyone saw that coming. The Chiefs needed a solid free agent WR in 2015, especially after the Emmanuel deal and the fact that the Chiefs went 16 games without a single TD to a WR, which is a modern day record.

But in processing the information that we know at this time, the cap management was just a part of the cumulative issues that Hunt had with Dorsey.

Some guys just aren't cut out to be GM's.

Just exasperating to watch Dorsey go like this. Probably the best drafting I've seen the Chiefs do ever. That's some stupid, petty bullshit for both Dorsey and Hunt.

Agree with your drafting comment.

It's CP. It's what we do.

Maybe the Berry non-signing was big if true Hunt had to intervene, might have cost more $$ and caused the JM situation since no money left to sign draft picks?

It sounds like a culmination of many, seemingly, unrelated events, until the contract negotiations stalled.

At point, Clark started checking off boxes and said, "Sayonara, Dorsey!".

Truth.

The true shame of this is their rift didn't bubble over immediately after the playoff loss.

Playing devil's advocate: it makes sense to make Dorsey earn the money invested in him, since GMs are prepping for the next draft once the previous on is over. Hunt paid for the work, might as well get the result. :shrug:

Again, I want to thank my father, a great man, for making me a Cheufs fan. I love you dad.

Well, if that happens, perhaps the new GM doesn't make the move for Mahomes.

His deal is rather back-loaded, so I don't believe so.

I think still being over the cap with 30 something pending FA's in 2018 was a bigger issue.

The bigger issue is the Autistics that thought Geno Smith and EJ Manuel were "Future HOFers" are trying to once again play armchair GM.

God you are a numbnuts.

Not really. If the Chiefs cut Berry in 2020 (the fourth year of his new contract), they're hit with $8 million dollars in Dead Money and only $5.5 million in cap space. That's pretty freaking bad.

It's not until 2021 that Berry is somewhat affordable to release, with $12 million in Cap Savings and $4 million in Dead Money.

At that point, Eric Berry will be 32 years old.

It's sad when people can't be completely objective about a situation bc they are homers of the highest order.

You will defend Clark no matter what. He can do no wrong, ever.

That comment isn't to defend anyone, its the fact you dont realize that isn't news of any sort.

ROFL

Don't forget Murray was a pro bowler in wait... LMAO

Not sure I buy the argument of cap situation being the cause of Dorsey's demise. After all, they WERE working on a long term deal. Why would you be doing that if the cap issue warranted Dorsey's removal. Nope, the more I read/hear, the more I think the contract negotiations themselves generated the tipping point on this thing. Heck, Clark seemed good enough with Dorsey's performance to entertain an extension, so performance alone wasn't the issue. Sounds to me like the parties involved simply could not agree on the provisions of the contract. Too bad really as despite Clark, although apparently not wild about Dorsey, obviously wanted him as GM.....He just didn't want him at any cost.

Two very strong personalities butting heads happens all the time. Sometimes things are worked out. Sometimes not. This was a not.

It's all really too bad IMO as the combo or Reid and Dorsey seemed to be doing really good work. Until proven otherwise (by improved performance by Reid and GM-to-be-named), I view this as a loss for the organization. I wonder if Clark let emotions get the better of him....he and Dorsey were not seeing eye to eye on some issue(s), Clark made what he felt was a fair offer and Dorsey balked at it. Guys like Clark typically are not astute or experienced negotiators (owners can ALWAYS get their way by simply using the power of ownership), so Clark simply decided to end the negotiation and fire Dorsey.

Lord have mercy, after all of the wool Pioli pulled over Clark's eyes, he certainly didn't seem to give Dorsey much rope....especially considering how successful the team has been under the Reid/Dorsey combo. Afterall, the fact that Clark offered an extension tells me that in a calmer time, Clark felt it best to have Dorsey working for the Chiefs.

Something in the negotiation process changed Clark's mind. Money? GB opt out? Dorsey wanting more power? If none of these, then why in the world did Clark change his mind during the negotiation process? It had to be some contract provision that they could not agree on.

Stubbornness seldom yields best results....and to date, it appears both parties were exercising stubbornness as a virtue. I hate it when this happens.

At least the Chiefs didn't fire Dorsey then hire a guy that used a fired scout from the Patriots to conduct all the evaluations for the draft, so there's that.

I agree, contracts didn't look so good. I figured thats why McCrackin got the axe.

As for the roster, its as complete a roster as this team has had in a very long time. I was genuinely excited to see the roster churn. Seeing guys like Charles leave wasn't fun, but logically I was better with it than hanging on to him too long. Same with Poe, who was easily my favorite player on the team.

I personally thought his approach to FA was better than most. He didn't get caught up in the 1st day of the frenzy, and he didn't overspend for another man's trash (I don't consider the Logan deal as a bad deal at all). Maybe he overpaid a couple guys to keep them, but thats not the biggest sin of a GM.

I'll continue to be a Chiefs fan, but I certainly don't have the same excitement as I did earlier this week.

It is what it is. I liked him. I thought he was good for the team and for the community. I think in the long run, he'll be better off being elsewhere. I just hope this team will be able to keep some of the same philosophies with whoever is new.

That's pretty much all you can hope for; keep the elements that were working and ditch the ones that weren't.

The fact you made an entire account in his name, even if you are just trolling, really shows the effect he has on you guys haha I've loomed for a while and always appreciated his videos/ability to get under some of your skin. You love the drama of his disagreements it's like watching little boys telling girls they're ugly because they secretly like them lol

Ah, the old counter troll mult option. Been awhile since I've seen this one.

Yep it's me Clay and I made a mult just because someone made an entire account about my name and having autism *sarcasm*. This place is entertaining as hell to say the least 😂

Die hard Chiefs fan should probably be caring more about the collapse of the scouting department than Clay and Geno.

One would think.

What "collapse"?

You're a butt****ing moron that's been banned more times than I can count while renouncing your
Chiefs fandom.

Does your life suck so ****ing bad that you need to post continually on Chiefsplanet, even though you offer little to no value?

Get out of your apartment. Find some friends.

Live your life.

Reading this with your avatar has my laughing pretty hard. I'm hearing this in Chapelle's voice. ROFL

My god what a useless bag of dicks you have become.

What collapse?

Jesus ****ing Christ you elevate denial to realms beyond interstellar travel.

Look in the mirror, ****tard.

You quit on the Chiefs, became a troll, have been banned time and time again, and followed your leader, Geno, for years on end.

Shut up. Grow up. **** off.

It hasn't collapsed yet but we should all be scared to death that it might collapse with Dorsey leaving. We can probably say goodbye to finding starting safeties etc off the junk pile as well. It sucks.

Hey that's great franchi-

Oh wait, now he's, what was it..."mediocre"?

Get your ****ing story straight, Sybil.

You don't know your ass from a hole in the ground, and your Baghdad Bob-schtick is comically ****ing pathetic.

Like, KnowMo ****ing pathetic.

Dipshit.

Sure.

No one cares about you, least of all, me, Geno

It's a culmination of many things including: Dorsey and Hunt not getting along, Dorsey had his eyes on GB and probably used that to ask for more money, players likely upset with how they handled the Maclin situation (although yes, he needed to be cut) so management feared backlash from the players, the horrible value contracts that we've given out (Bowe, Fanaika, Howard, Tamba, Maclin, Grubbs) and likely being too aggressive for a QB in this year's draft when we could've drafted players that could have contributed to the team now.

Cool.

Awesome.

So go **** yourself and goodnight! :thumb:

"Anyone not completely confused and distraught over Dorsey's exit is ill informed over Dorsey's value". My thoughts exactly.

Dorsey IMO was arguably the top GM in the leagur and without a doubt one of the best.

Nothing like calling other people names and then tell someone to grow up

Eww, words are awful.

:rolleyes:

“When you do a move like this, you have to make sure everybody is on board,” Dorsey told reporters in Kansas City on draft night. “With this one, everybody was on board from the very beginning all the way back from when we evaluated him back in September, October. The reigning consensus was that he has unbelievable talent. He’s got the skill set to be one of those truly great players, and I think sometimes, when you make an aggressive move like that – that’s why you do it. These players, they don’t come by too often. So, you have to take a shot at it, and that’s kind of what we did.” - John Dorsey

Stop saying ______ wasn't on board with Mahomes. Sure it's probably a build up of various things but the straw that broke camels back was Dorsey's camp letting out the GB rumors so he could get chiefs to offer more money. Clark caught it, tried to look past it, and then behind the scenes were too far apart.

Probably?

Don't forget the mid to late round pickups as well. That, and the ever-deepening, continually churning roster are hitting the tarmac too.

So there's that to look forward to as well.

If Dorsey mishandled the Berry situation and Clark/Reid had to get involved to get the deal done, then how can Dorsey be blamed for a shitty deal? What leverage would he have if Berry knows the owner is advocating to make a deal. Maybe Dorsey didn't want to make that deal because it was not good for the team, but was told to do it no matter what.

This still sucks.

The shitty deal was EITHER of those two getting involved in the first ****ing place.
These operations were supposed to be independent of each other, that's how Clark set the mother****er up to BEGIN WITH after the Peeholi disaster.

I agree; don't hire a man for a job and then tie his ****ing hands.

Any success in the next five years will be direct contributed by John Dorsey especially if it's direct success do to a trade to the Bills giving us the right to pick #10 in the draft for Patrick Mhahomes II

It would be hard not to approve of what he did here.

I've never really been sold on Dorsey's ability to not get bent over and take it up the ass in trades and contract negotiations, but he's been pretty good at building a deep roster and he will always be the GM that said **** Blackledge and made his move to get a potential franchise QB.

I'm more inclined to believe that Clark fired Dorsey because he traded all that future away for a QB and not a striker.

What you just described is someone who could be a Director of Pro Personnel or Director of College Scouting, but not a GM.

His deals sucked and took to long to get. Bowe was a waste. Maclin was a waste and don't get me started on the Smith deal. So were a few others like Hali. With that being said he did a great job at finding players that can contribute with little money.

The more this gets discussed I think Terez had it nailed. The GB link, too much money and Clark thought he bail for GB soon.

That's pretty much what I've always thought of him as. I'll be the first one to correct these stupid ****ers around here that talk about Dorsey like he was the GM in GB before the Chiefs hired him.

Having said that, his move for a QB makes him more of a GM than any GM of the Chiefs since I've been alive, in my book at least.

Maclin NEVER lived up to his contract.

Politics are gross...and Berry is being a bitch. (if this is true) They paid him during his rehab. He wanted rockstar money...and until last season..hadn't lived quite up to his billing. Chiefs took care of him...period.

Dorsey's job was to look after/protect his TEAM...not just a marketable cancer survivor. How is he supposed to know if the cancer will reemerge? Give him a shitload of guaranteed money only to have him vanish again? He looks like a fool in that situation..thats the type of shit that gets you fired (ironically).

This cant be true..can it? Berry still pouting and missing practice after the contract they just gave him?

Dorsey took a 2-14 team and flipped it into a 12-4 record with serious injuries to their star players. Props...his depth made that happen. Reid too but there was SB caliber chemistry there.

This was a terrible scenario...Hunt's going to regret it.

Not sure if this has been posted. Take it for what it's worth

https://www.reddit.com/r/KansasCityC...dorsey_firing/

Dorsey was anything but a bad GM. All this horseshit getting spewed around here is ****ing ridiculous. Dorsey is a damned good GM. My conjecture has nothing to do with his abilities to actually do his job. If it ever comes to light that Clark though he was doing a bad job, then Clark should probably sell the team and find a new side job.

This likely came down to money or loyalty going forward (as in potentially leaving for GB), and I doubt anything else.

Look at who posted it bfett81

That was a Clay Moniker at one time.

It came from here, and [I admit, it's a Cankleover] reposted it around the rest of the innertubes.

I still don't buy that Dorsey was going jump ship on his own accord especially after making the deal of the century for the Chiefs. He was ecstatic over drafting Mahomes II and was clearly looking at building this team his way so all he has done was to build a legacy in winning championships for Kansas City Chiefs only that legacy now is only going be on the success of developing his young quarterback prospect. His wife and family are embedded in Kansas City.

This just doesn't make since to me other than John Dorsey and Clark Hunt didn't see eye to eye and Clark wanted it his way. They must have disputed more than once and you just don't cross the boss.

I did find it odd that Justin Houston said he "didn't contact KC" about if he would be at practice. They are paying him like $20 million a year...poor fellow cant find the time to use the phone. He seemed pretty curt in his response about it too (which I found strange at the time..chalked it up to ego)...Berry and he are buds.

If these two conspired to get him fired..then **** them. They both got stellar contracts well beyond what they have delivered.

I'd go so far as to say Dorsey could have used their money to make the team better...ungrateful brats.

Could be possible, but if Clark is only willing to work with "yes men," then he's a terrible ****ing boss to begin with. Most owners I know would rather someone in a high-ranking position that is willing to say "no" and offer legitimate rebuttal, than someone that kisses their feet. It's a counter-balance for the stupidity of trying to run a large company solo.

This entire move smells, and I really don't think that the reasoning behind it could be legitimized. The conjectures that make the most sense are all terrible reasons to fire one of the best GMs in the league. Moves like this just aren't made, especially now.

The Chiefs aren't in cap hell, so I dispel that theory. They may have mismanaged contract negotiations, but that position was addressed a month ago. They can cut some fat on the roster with Smith, Hali, Johnson, and so forth next season and be in prime shape cap-wise.

Dorsey and Reid have a friendship that extends decades longer than Reid's closeness to Maclin, so I dispel the theory that Maclin's cutting enraged Reid to the extent he'd ask for his buddy's firing.

We'll never know.. Point is he is gone and it should not have happened. But regardless we have to move on and get ready for the season.

Yeah, if they're going to be that big of prima donnas, when they aren't even on the right side of the ball to be 'the most important position in all of sporting endeavor,' forget dragging Alex to anything, they better perform well enough to drag JaFatass Russell at QB and Hurtis Penis at RB to the SB.

I have a lot of problems the past x0 years that make it hard to move on from shit like this. I mean, you finally have a solid coach and a really good GM, and you **** it for what exactly? There's literally no logical connection to hang your hat on. If Clark hires Veach, I might have some hope. If he doesn't, I'll be quite hesitant to have any.

The plot is getting progressively more thick...you have two veteran "superstar" locker-room leaders, who both got massive contracts, not showing up for practice, Reid being pissy.. Maclin being a surprise cut and Charles disgruntled...then the stellar GM is fired out of nowhere.

I guess these two liked being 2-14....idiots. What do they care..they got payed.

Shit is getting ****ed-up in Chiefland. Sounds like Hunt was trying to hold the locker room together...and Dorsey got fired for being a great GM. Belichick can get away with impersonal roster decisions because he has the trophies..and the owner has his back. In KC it's all about the "feels" and mediocrity.

The players now dictate who makes the decisions...Hunt is a rich-kid pussy. Dorsey was 22-4 over the last 26...how does that get you fired? You should be untouchable. This is a blackeye...spineless ownership.

Good to see some spine showing up in here.

Eventually, all of the details are going to come out. And when they do, I doubt we'll find Hunt on the right side of history.
Why?
Because typical Chief is typical. And, as you have already pointed out, the whole thing is beyond all logical possibilities and it smells to high hell.

Honest to God I'd rather have John Dorsey as GM than Andy Reid as HC and let Dorsey pick our next HC and continue drafting for our future.

You would do this board and yourself a big favor if you would spend just a little more time researching facts before your fat fingers bang the submit reply button-

I loved Dorsey as much as the next guy. But to think we're just going to become irrelevant is nonsense. He wasn't a one man show.. outside of Ballard we have the same personnel and scouting guys. They wouldn't have let Dorsey go if they didn't have someone ready to replace him

I feel like we are missing a key piece to the mystery that we may never get. There we no signals of this happening, all information pointed to an extension. It feels like Clark wanted assurances that he wouldn't bail for GB in a few years and maybe Dorsey wasn't willing to sign a deal that guaranteed it.

I don't like the move but the HC is more important in my book. Players are not drawn to a GM like they are an HC. Veech will do fine and surely will get the job.

Is it like pulling teeth to get information out of him?

the dude is a low rent hack.

I love how people miss that Clark was the guy who hired Dorsey, he has the ability to hire another top notch GM.

Dorsey was good, he wasn't the best and there are numerous examples of bad contracts.

He was good, he isn't irreplaceable.

It was a copy and paste from a post from RunKc in this thread who knows someone who works at Arrowhead.

Clay tweeted it and has been spreading it everywhere as Gospel.

After all these years I'm just now noticing your avatar has 2 bitches in it. Classic!

EDIT: I legit thought she was popping a squat to take a piss and questioned why CP would allow displayed vag