Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 16784272)

And as much credit as people wanna give him for being this Brady like savant, Spags made him look like a rookie.

What was that i heard, ZERO sustained drives over 8 plays against us on Sunday? 2 Ints and what easily coulda been 2 more.

Burrow threw a ball right at McDuffie who barely even moved off his spot in a base cover 2.

Dude's game basically amounted to two prayer balls in which his receivers made excellent plays. Plays that most receivers won't make.

So no, spare me this crap about him being intellectually elite.

Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 16785180)

Judging an individual player's talent by using team metrics just doesn't make any sense.

Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 16785180)

Judging an individual player's talent by using team metrics just doesn't make any sense.

Originally Posted by Detoxing (Post 16785180)

Judging an individual player's talent by using team metrics just doesn't make any sense.

Originally Posted by Bengal Billy (Post 16785192)

^^ I have to agree with this as I believe Burrow still has some learning to do diagnosing and checking into different calls at times (he is very good for only playing in the league 2 full seasons but still has more to do).

- Late in the 4th, Bengals had a 2nd & 3 and then a 3rd & 3. Burrow throws two straight deep balls with lower percentage chances of success. Why do that and not check into something for you know, moving the chains?

- on Bengals last 3rd and 8, Spags brilliantly had Chris Jones on the outside out wide with the rest of the line skewed right which forced Hakeem Adeniji to be on an island against Jones. Burrow needs to see that and move a player to help chip or check into a different play to account for that but he didn't. Instead, Jones blows right by Adeniji and plants Burrow into the dirt again for the punt.

Burrow is very, very good but still has some improvement to be made.

The elite debate, I think it's relative to what you're comparing it to. If you are just going by who's elite in the current game, then yes he belongs.

If you're talking all-time or over different eras, then no, not yet at least.

For current era QBs, I would say yes elite as it's
1. Mahomes
2a/2b Allen & Burrow

All-time,, no

Originally Posted by penguinz (Post 16785275)

Herbert specifically has done nothing to help his team in a must win game. he has failed every time.

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 (Post 16784439)

Wait, what? Burrow has as many playoff wins in a few seasons as rivers did a long career. And more than Matt Ryan’s career. These guys were never ever considered in T1 and were lucky if they were even T2. And these guys played with loaded talent. Rivers initial supporting cast was absurdly talented.

If they played in todays game rivers would be on Herbert’s level. And Matt Ryan would be on a stafford level, maybe a little better than cousins. These guys aren’t even remotely close to burrow. Without a doubt he’s qb2 and there’s a big distance to qb3, and that’s considering that Allen has been pretty decent and productive.

I’d say it’s more than fair to say at worst he’s Brees. and that’s pretty elite.

Originally Posted by Chris Meck (Post 16784394)

who said anything about that?

I said 'on a trajectory', as in they are playing in such a way as to end up hall of famers. And that's not a stretch to say.

Now, if you guys want to go full reerun and say hall of famers aren't elite, then that's your business, and you guys have fun arguing utter horseshit, but I'll just bow on out and you can have your fantasy world arguments.

And sometimes guys are 'elite' for a season, like Matt Ryan, but unable to sustain that. Sometimes guys get injured and all off, or age out, and are no longer elite, etc.

But for the last couple of seasons, there is no question that Mahomes, Burrow, and Allen have been pretty ****ing elite and to argue against that is just nonsense.

Allen played hurt, and Hurts is hurt now, but both when 100% were favorites to win MVP. Now, Hurts was elite most of one season; If he can repeat that another year or two, then you can add him into that top 5 'elite' class.

You guys are so blinded by Mahomes that you can't acknowledge greatness in others. These guys are absolutely elite, and sometimes they're going to beat us, Mahomes or no. They're great. Allen has. Burrow has. It's a fact.

I wouldn't trade our guy for anyone, but there are other guys that are also great.

This is a stupid argument and I'm out.

Originally Posted by tredadda (Post 16784868)

Is there a QB in the league that gets more love for doing so little as Sherbert? What has he done to justify being top 5?

Originally Posted by rfaulk34 (Post 16785422)

He has a ton of arm talent. I think where he lacks is mentally. Not the ability to process, but handling stressful, important situations.

He reminds me a lot of Carson Palmer. Very introverted personalities.

Originally Posted by mr. tegu (Post 16785381)

Rivers and Ryan both had multiple regular seasons as good or better than Burrow’s two seasons yet they aren’t considered elite nor where they at the time. That’s exactly the point. You can’t just say they aren’t close to Burrow because reasons. Burrow’s regular season don’t stand above Rivers or Ryan few year stretches by any means. And I’m giving him credit for being the QB while the team wins playoff games but in those wins he has been a game manager at best given he still hasn’t led a TD drive in the fourth in his post season career.

Originally Posted by Bengal Billy (Post 16785192)

^^ I have to agree with this as I believe Burrow still has some learning to do diagnosing and checking into different calls at times (he is very good for only playing in the league 2 full seasons but still has more to do).

- Late in the 4th, Bengals had a 2nd & 3 and then a 3rd & 3. Burrow throws two straight deep balls with lower percentage chances of success. Why do that and not check into something for you know, moving the chains?

- on Bengals last 3rd and 8, Spags brilliantly had Chris Jones on the outside out wide with the rest of the line skewed right which forced Hakeem Adeniji to be on an island against Jones. Burrow needs to see that and move a player to help chip or check into a different play to account for that but he didn't. Instead, Jones blows right by Adeniji and plants Burrow into the dirt again for the punt.

Burrow is very, very good but still has some improvement to be made.

The elite debate, I think it's relative to what you're comparing it to. If you are just going by who's elite in the current game, then yes he belongs.

If you're talking all-time or over different eras, then no, not yet at least.

For current era QBs, I would say yes elite as it's
1. Mahomes
2a/2b Allen & Burrow

All-time,, no

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties (Post 16779427)

mahomes would never punt with those WR