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-   Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/forumdisplay.php?f=29)
-   -   Let's talk Defensive Line (https://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=347675)

Chris Meck 04-09-2023 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16895366)
Keion White is a physical freak but it bothers me using such a high asset on a rookie who will turn 25 this coming season.

Also see what DJ said about Foskey. He is a little stiff, but I still like him a ton.

I question how much the Chiefs would get a guy like Keion White or Adebawore with the signing of Omenihu. They seem like they would have the same role meaning that played wouldn’t start or get as much PT.

Maybe it’s just me but it feels like they’d be looking for a pure edge. And I doubt this kid goes in the first, but it sure seems like Derick Hall would fit that DE role to a “t”. He just seems like an ideal fit if that’s the direction they wanna go
I think you're on to something here in general that I've been thinking about, which is blockage.

In order to develop your youngsters, they have to have a path to playing time. If you've just spent money on a guy, you obviously think they're a good player, so maybe you don't want to stack a similar skillset behind them in a draftee.

It's something I've been thinking about while looking at WR's in particular, but it also applies to the DE.

RunKC 04-09-2023 08:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by staylor26 (Post 16895389)
Sure, but if he were 23, he'd be a top 15 pick.
What? A top 15 pick? LMAO

No ****ing way

Urc Burry 04-09-2023 09:22 AM
Age is a real issue to me. If they are a SR or RS JR it’s one thing. But when they’re that old they are getting very close to being a finished product.

Say we take him at 31 and he plays through the 5th yr option. You’re looking at an extension or franchise tag on a guy who’s older than Chris Jones is now. Unless he’s Chris Jones level he’s definitely not getting extended past that

Look at Veachs track record. It’s real. Not saying I’m 100% confident it won’t happen. But it seems very unlikely. I would say there’s a better chance at him taking a 21 y/o Gibbs. Even being a RB

staylor26 04-09-2023 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16895563)
What? A top 15 pick? LMAO

No ****ing way
Oh, he absolutely would be. Top 20 at worst.

6'5 290 and running in the mid 4.6s? With a 20%+ pass rush win rate?

He's already a consensus top 32 player, so you must believe that the age factor isn't impacting his draft status whatsoever, which makes zero sense.

JPH83 04-09-2023 01:19 PM
Foskey's stiffness really bothers me. I'm trying to convince myself it's not a big deal, I mean I can see the fit...but I just cannot get past it.

kccrow 04-09-2023 03:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPH83 (Post 16895774)
Foskey's stiffness really bothers me. I'm trying to convince myself it's not a big deal, I mean I can see the fit...but I just cannot get past it.
It's a power/speed-to-power league. This "bend" shit is overblown. Sure, it helps sometimes but it's not the primary trait you want in a pass rusher in the NFL. It sounds cool though.

JPH83 04-09-2023 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 16895874)
It's a power/speed-to-power league. This "bend" shit is overblown. Sure, it helps sometimes but it's not the primary trait you want in a pass rusher in the NFL. It sounds cool though.
Yeah fine, but sometimes it's quicker going around than through.

kccrow 04-09-2023 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPH83 (Post 16895888)
Yeah fine, but sometimes it's quicker going around than through.
You need a lot of things to go right in the NFL for the "around" to work out well for you. You better have a great get-off and burst with that bend too. Those guys are few. You can probably count them on one hand.

JPH83 04-09-2023 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 16895895)
You need a lot of things to go right in the NFL for the "around" to work out well for you. You better have a great get-off and burst with that bend too. Those guys are few. You can probably count them on one hand.
True, what can I say, I'm greedy/unrealistic. It's partly why i liked McDonald a lot more than most here.

JPH83 04-09-2023 03:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 16895895)
You need a lot of things to go right in the NFL for the "around" to work out well for you. You better have a great get-off and burst with that bend too. Those guys are few. You can probably count them on one hand.
Though I would say this applies to power somewhat too You have to have good hands, counters, a plan, nothing 1 dimensional is getting it done at this level

kccrow 04-09-2023 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPH83 (Post 16895907)
True, what can I say, I'm greedy/unrealistic. It's partly why i liked McDonald a lot more than most here.
McDonald fits the narrative. He just lacks immensely in mass and power. He's a guy that could be a Hasson Reddick rusher in this league but I think he'd be best served really going to work on building his legs up to add his mass. He has an extremely thin lower half. It's going to be a concern holding the edge against the run. That might push him down a bit more than people think because he's coming in looking like a situational pass rusher that needs to build his body. I'm not sure you take a one-trick pony in the 1st.

RunKC 04-09-2023 03:32 PM
Crow how to you compare Foskey to Hall? Hall has size (weight is 5 lbs off but everything else good), an impressive 1.59 10 yard split and shows some power and bend.

kccrow 04-09-2023 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16895919)
Crow how to you compare Foskey to Hall? Hall has size (weight is 5 lbs off but everything else good), an impressive 1.59 10 yard split and shows some power and bend.
I have Foskey ahead of Hall.

I like both, both win with power and speed-to-power. I think both lack great "bend" like JH was talking about. Both are good off the snap and both get their hands up into guys right away. I think Hall is a bit quicker, Foskey is a bit more powerful. Foskey is a better run defender. Both close well.

I just prefer Foskey's size, length, and ability to set the edge right now. Not that I would be disappointed with either. After spending more time sifting through prospects, I feel right now like Hall is a guy I'd take 63 while Foskey is a guy I'd take at 31 if that puts it in reference for you.

JPH83 04-10-2023 08:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kccrow (Post 16895915)
McDonald fits the narrative. He just lacks immensely in mass and power. He's a guy that could be a Hasson Reddick rusher in this league but I think he'd be best served really going to work on building his legs up to add his mass. He has an extremely thin lower half. It's going to be a concern holding the edge against the run. That might push him down a bit more than people think because he's coming in looking like a situational pass rusher that needs to build his body. I'm not sure you take a one-trick pony in the 1st.
I think that's a completely reasonable take, and I get why someone like Foskey has more of an appeal. I think there's little doubt that from Day 1 he's getting on the field more frequently than a guy like McDonald, and that's as good a reason as any to choose Foskey. I guess my take is more focused on rounding out the skillset of our DEs overall. I just keep thinking what are we missing that would give OTs fits. Probably my ideal situation is R1 we get someone who fits the scheme, a power rusher who stones the run and offers a little pass rush, and then we double dip later with an undersized, situational speed rusher. Everyone's happy.

DJ's left nut 04-10-2023 08:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunKC (Post 16895563)
What? A top 15 pick? LMAO

No ****ing way
Uh....he very well could be.

What's there not to like in his profile? Measurables, production, no character flags. He's tenacious and his tape shows a guy who will do the dirty work. He's scheme versatile to boot.

There are times I wonder why he's not a top 20 prospect already. There's just not much to complain about with him.


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